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In a post-Ordo Dracul world, the Tzimisce metamorphosists just look stupid. Hey, guys, making any progress on the transcendence thing? Oh, you've got some +1L weapons you don't need an action to draw? Alright, good luck out there.
Ferrinus fucked around with this message at 16:31 on Oct 31, 2022 |
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Oct 31, 2022 16:29
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MonsieurChoc posted:There's a new podcast that might be interesting inspiration for the WoD, probably more specifically the new one: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/otherworld/id1647611444 I listen to Mage the Podcast, are there any other good Mage podcasts? Or Mage adjacent, I'm willing to listen to a podcast about Demon or Changeling too but I assume those don't exist.
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Oct 31, 2022 17:53
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Ferrinus posted:In a post-Ordo Dracul world, the Tzimisce metamorphosists just look stupid. Hey, guys, making any progress on the transcendence thing? Oh, you've got some +1L weapons you don't need an action to draw? Alright, good luck out there.
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Oct 31, 2022 18:10
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Rutibex posted:I listen to Mage the Podcast, are there any other good Mage podcasts? Or Mage adjacent, I'm willing to listen to a podcast about Demon or Changeling too but I assume those don't exist. There's Lore by Night on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/c/LoreByNightVtM/videos I actually haven't listened to them much but a friend of mine suggested them to me so their in my backlog.
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Oct 31, 2022 18:41
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MonsieurChoc posted:There's Lore by Night on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/c/LoreByNightVtM/videos Not a fan of this dude's stream. He self admits to only discovering the WoD after playing Vampyr (which only came out like 3 years ago) and since then has shotgunned basically all the books and yet somehow still, in TYOOL 2019-2022 or thereabouts has still felt the need to complain about moves toward "political correctness" and axing old metaplot. Like this dude saw the old edition Ravnos and was like "this is fine" and then laments how they've been defanged in V5 and lost all their "interesting roots." I bet he's a fan of Jeremy Clarkson.
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Oct 31, 2022 20:48
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I don't know what that guy's problem is because V5 Ravnos are genetically predisposed to being rootless nomads and their clan compulsion pushes them towards hot-blooded daring.
Ferrinus fucked around with this message at 20:56 on Oct 31, 2022 |
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Oct 31, 2022 20:51
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Ferrinus posted:I don't know what that guy's problem is because V5 Ravnos are genetically predisposed to being rootless nomads and their clan compulsion pushes them towards hot-blooded daring. "Which is skeleton bullshit, they should've stayed thieves and con artists since they're based on Gy-"*Insert extremely European racism here*
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Oct 31, 2022 21:27
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Kavak posted:"Which is skeleton bullshit, they should've stayed thieves and con artists since they're based on Gy-"*Insert extremely European racism here* The tragedy, but also the genius, of these guys is that they can never tell when they're being pandered to and therefore exert a steady rightward pressure even upon ostensibly winning. This is why there's no point in retreading these stereotypes for the sake of getting them right this time around or whatever.
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Oct 31, 2022 21:32
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Anyway, it's time for a bloodline based on the inexplicably persecuted Cagot families of western France.
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Oct 31, 2022 21:34
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Fuzz posted:Not a fan of this dude's stream. Yikes! Sorry then.
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Oct 31, 2022 22:29
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Ferrinus posted:I don't know what that guy's problem is because V5 Ravnos are genetically predisposed to being rootless nomads and their clan compulsion pushes them towards hot-blooded daring. I like how the clan compulsion now is "LEEROOOOY JEEEENKINS!" as opposed to me trying to come up with attempts to make a vice more interesting than "shop lifting", "pickpocketing", "serial killer", and "insider trading".
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Oct 31, 2022 23:22
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"My vice is internet piracy. No seriously, my guy just got out of decades of torpor and thinks watching movies on Putlocker is dangerously illegal."
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Oct 31, 2022 23:29
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Rutibex posted:I listen to Mage the Podcast, are there any other good Mage podcasts? Or Mage adjacent, I'm willing to listen to a podcast about Demon or Changeling too but I assume those don't exist. The Primogen is generally a fun listen (Not sure if he's got an audio podcast feed.) And there actually IS a Changeling podcast, "Walking Away From Arcadia" https://www.youtube.com/c/ThePrimogen https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/walking-away-from-arcadia/id1231710053
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Nov 1, 2022 01:02
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DantetheK9 posted:The Primogen is generally a fun listen (Not sure if he's got an audio podcast feed.) And there actually IS a Changeling podcast, "Walking Away From Arcadia" Yeah this is the guy I listen to. Slower to put out content than LorebyNight, but also not making GBS threads out mediocre content. Primogen videos are pretty methodical and present the info a pretty well reasoned and succinct way.
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Nov 1, 2022 04:20
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It is wild listening to non Americans talk about American stuff, this must be how the rest of the world feels. I was listening to one of his vids and between him pronouncing Chicago as CHI-cago and referring to Gary, Indiana as a major city , well it brought some wonderful humor to my morning.
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Nov 1, 2022 16:45
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citybeatnik posted:I like how the clan compulsion now is "LEEROOOOY JEEEENKINS!" as opposed to me trying to come up with attempts to make a vice more interesting than "shop lifting", "pickpocketing", "serial killer", and "insider trading". I think it's actually worse, because they've just doubled the number of game mechanics which push you to act out ethnic stereotypes, and one of those game mechanics is an explicit, capital-C Compulsion that's like, no, gently caress your history or context, your blood forces you to have this personality, everyone related to you acts just like this. Having to clutch a rose between your teeth and swing from chandeliers is less on the nose than having to pick pockets but it's not really less offensive; either way, the game is making a definite statement about personal culture and proclivities just kind of manifesting ex nihilo and driving your place in society rather than vice versa.
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Nov 1, 2022 19:13
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I'm legit not seeing the connection between the two being in any way comparable. The entire clan is haunted by the death of its founder and the Compulsion is just as much a kiss of death as their Bane, it's just a long-term death sentence as opposed to "whoops i entered torpor and don't have someone to move me, guess I'm gonna explode". The inspiration for the new take on the clan, in both the supplement and the devnotes, are various Trickster archetypes and those are rife with stories about how they either succeed gloriously (getting someone's horse to bone them so they can't finish the wall on time) or fail in abjectly hilarious ways (welp you ate the jizz lettuce so now the nephew you tried to impregnate's the ruler). It's up to the characters as a whole to build a new mythos around their actions/compulsions as opposed to having it tie back to a specific culture. As for "everyone related to you acts like this" that's both due to literal blood curses from a pissed off demiurge (coupled with clans self-selecting) and is not unique to VtM. A VtR Mekhet's blood *forces* them to gain banes quicker, a Ventrue's blood *forces* them to have a harder time holding on to their touchstones - and those are further enforced by their Disciplines. Which are also things the blood *forces* on them. You're taking exception to something that's baked into all the gamelines, both WoD and CoD, and being grumpy about a change from "your [insert horrid slur here] heritage means that you're a natural criminal" to "this is an excuse for you the player to throw a spanner in the works for more drama, have fun!"
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Nov 1, 2022 19:39
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No, Compulsions are a qualitative difference from what we had before, worse than both VtR and V20 or previous editions of VtM. Most clan weaknesses - all of the ones in Requiem, certainly - were at least broad mystical or physiological problems. Like, Mekhet being more inclined to become vulnerable to garlic or Ventrue slipping away from humanity faster read as mystical curses or banes, something a character has to play around and adapt to. Compulsions take one step farther and just... give you a personality. This is, in the first place, a really clumsy and ham-handed game mechanic. How can we make sure Nosferatu are sneaky or Ventrue are domineering? I've got it, we'll give them a -2 dice penalty unless they act sneaky or domineering! Man, I'm so good at RPG design. In the second place, though, it's basically that Redwall story about the good rodents adopting and trying but failing to civilize a baby weasel or stoat or whatever it was. Sorry, but no matter who they were before, your Ravnos is now a hot-blooded, irrational risk-taker. They just can't seem to be reasonable, sometimes. Very tragic, but what can you do with those people?
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Nov 1, 2022 19:50
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You are really digging in on finding what is basically a "hey player, if you want to play a YOLO concept why not go for this clan" thing as something that I don't think it is. Like, moving beyond using a simple shovel to a back-hoe. I mean, I agree with the first part that it's hamfisted, I just am able to shrug it off and don't see why it's a big deal. But then there's a loud beeping noise as you back up the excavator and start clawing at the earth. You might not mean it to come across that way but to me it's like being upset that D&D/Pathfinder/13th Age races get bonuses to certain things. You also skipped how VtR's Disciplines reinforce behavior/personality. "Sorry, but no matter who they were before, your Ventrue is now someone who finds forcing their will on others the easiest solution to all problems." I just can't grokk how a penality that if you really want to ignore you can just blood surge away is the same as "this is just as bad, if not worse, as having the character splat's weakness being based around racist stereotypes of an unjustly maligned outcast group."
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Nov 1, 2022 20:32
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That’s not how Clan Compulsions work at all. There is nothing forcing a player to take them, even if they fail a Hunger or Frenzy roll. Clan Compulsion is just another option a vamp from that clan is able to take if they don’t want to take the generic vampire options like “flip out and kill people” or “socially dominate those around them”
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Nov 1, 2022 20:35
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Gatto Grigio posted:That’s not how Clan Compulsions work at all. There is nothing forcing a player to take them, even if they fail a Hunger or Frenzy roll. Clan Compulsion is just another option a vamp from that clan is able to take if they don’t want to take the generic vampire options like “flip out and kill people” or “socially dominate those around them” Well, yeah. I assumed they meant if your ST rolls on the random table constantly and you get the 10% chance of it.
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Nov 1, 2022 20:45
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Ferrinus posted:In the second place, though, it's basically that Redwall story about the good rodents adopting and trying but failing to civilize a baby weasel or stoat or whatever it was. Sorry, but no matter who they were before, your Ravnos is now a hot-blooded, irrational risk-taker. They just can't seem to be reasonable, sometimes. Very tragic, but what can you do with those people? would embracing a stolid accountant one day after she retires and standing back to watch the chaos be in keeping with the new ravnos or do you have to take the risks yourself? a ravnos bloodline tailored to the ordo dracul
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Nov 1, 2022 20:48
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citybeatnik posted:I'm legit not seeing the connection between the two being in any way comparable. The entire clan is haunted by the death of its founder and the Compulsion is just as much a kiss of death as their Bane, it's just a long-term death sentence as opposed to "whoops i entered torpor and don't have someone to move me, guess I'm gonna explode". I agree with Ferrinus that there's a crucial distinction between VtR Banes and VtM Compulsions that, imo, makes the latter a lot weaker. Banes (which don't actually apply until you hit Humanity 6) are distinct *effects* but they don't override your character's actual personality in the same way. For example, Mekhet get an additional ban, Gangrel resist frenzy dicepool is capped at Humanity, Nosferatu reads two dots of Humanity lower in Social rolls and Presence/Manipulation failures get upgraded to dramatic failures. However! There is no rule saying *how* your vampire reacts to this in the moment, or thinks about their own banes. And hey, there's even an entire covenant that's all about hating your banes so much you open up the hood and start messing with your own code, with plenty of thematic and mechanical space for vampires interested in changing it. I think it's a good system because the immediate effect for new players is to provide a very broad and malleable set of archetypes, silo off powers, and point to specific effects they'll have to confront as they get more powerful - but it's entirely up to them as to how they deal with it! Banes and Clans are a weak tag, and Covenant and just being a vampire are way more personal and relatable between vampires. You can have two Nosferatu who are in the same clan, and even the same covenant, and even be sire and childe, but read as completely different - say you have a hideous monster who LOVES being spooky and takes every opportunity to play the part, with a childe who is completely social, polite, even noble and respected, but has an uncontrollable aura that drives people away and isolates her. That's cool, imo! On the other hand, VtM compulsions ARE about you acting in a specific way, *regardless* of what the character is like at other times. This is a thematic and mechanical space that's better saved for frenzy, imo. If we take the VtM example, you get stuff like: Compulsion: Rebellion - the vampire takes a stand against whatever or whomever they see as the status quo in the situation, whether that's their leader, a viewpoint expressed by a potential vessel, or just the task they were supposed to do at the moment. Compulsion: Cryptophilia - the need to know permeates the vampire. They become consumed with a hunger for secrets, to know that which few or no one knows, almost as strong as that for blood. They also refuse to share secrets with others, except in strict trade for greater ones. Compulsion: Tempting Fate - the vampire is driven by their Blood to court danger. Putting themselves and others at risk, they will court destruction for the sake of flair and panache. Compulsion: Arrogance - the need to rule rears its head in the vampire. They stop at nothing to assume command of the situation. So, this is a lot less appealing to me just because it transfers the initiative of deciding how my character reacts to their circumstances, to the dice - in addition to frenzy, which already does that. I end up being straitjacketed into specific roleplaying choices and the real choice to make changes from "what vampire do I want to be" to "which vampire do I want to be?" with a list of choices. Oh, woops, guess just because I'm a brujah just means I've got to act like a huge rear end in a top hat for no reason even when it's completely out of character! If you don't like it, well, pick another clan/stereotype/personality? Your Nosferatu is a spymaster, sorry. They're just like that. It's vampire. Of course you lose control of your character. But making clan compulsions part of that just adds another unwanted layer to stuff like frenzy, except it's just worse, more annoying, more limiting, and had to be salvaged from crazy 90s racism. It's just an artifact of nostalgia that people can't get rid of. It's good that it's optional, next step is just to let it go completely!
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Nov 1, 2022 20:56
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tatankatonk posted:It's just an artifact of nostalgia that people can't get rid of. It's good that it's optional, next step is just to let it go completely! “It’s not good enough that I have the option to ignore it personally, I must also be able to take away other player’s fun.”
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Nov 1, 2022 21:09
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citybeatnik posted:You are really digging in on finding what is basically a "hey player, if you want to play a YOLO concept why not go for this clan" thing as something that I don't think it is. Like, moving beyond using a simple shovel to a back-hoe. Playing a Ravnos doesn't actually help or allow you to play a "YOLO concept". It makes you. It tells you, the reader, that taking crazy risks isn't a response to circumstances but a hard-coded, pre-rational compulsion. So the combination of Ravnos clan bane and clan compulsion mean that your character, associated in the setting lore with the Roma people, is a nomadic, unpredictable trickster. Like I said, this is less, like, on-its-face distasteful than your character being a compulsive thief or liar instead. But it's not actually better. Assigning neutral-to-positive racial stereotypes comes from the same basic ideological presupposition as assigning negative ones, even if it goes down a little easier with your dinner. tatankatonk has already outlined, but I'm going to second, that the clan compulsions have a very different dynamic from the clan banes, which themselves have a very different dynamic from clan disciplines. It really is going above and beyond to take the Nosferatu and not only give them the perfect power set for being sneaky spies but to on top of that randomly force them to engage in sneaky spying if a roll goes bad. That's just lovely and ham-fisted rules design that bespeaks a basic lack of faith in the core mechanics and power setups. Gatto Grigio posted:“It’s not good enough that I have the option to ignore it personally, I must also be able to take away other player’s fun.” Take away other players' fun experience of... having the game dictate their characters' personalities to them...?
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Nov 1, 2022 21:13
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Gatto Grigio posted:“It’s not good enough that I have the option to ignore it personally, I must also be able to take away other player’s fun.” I just don't think it's good design, yeah! And in this particular case, Clans are like the signature thing about VtM! If the entire marketing effort is selling me clans clans clans, and I don't like it, I'm just gonna play something else!
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Nov 1, 2022 21:47
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They are pointedly *not* associated with the Roma any more. Their ties to disenfranchised folks in the past were a thing of convenience and now the members from those various groups are doing their own thing and making their own myths. I wanted to play a YOLO character so I looked at the various clans and found one that mechanically encouraged me to do so - Presence for smooth talking, Obfuscate for confusing, Animalism for "COME MY MINIONS RISE FOR YOUR MASTER". You're putting the lore/whatever cart in front of the player horse. And even then said Compulsion doesn't always have to be a thing for my dude that's inspired by Huehuecoyotl and nagual myths. tatankatonk posted:I agree with Ferrinus that there's a crucial distinction between VtR Banes and VtM Compulsions that, imo, makes the latter a lot weaker. That's the thing, I do agree with that. I agree with part of what they said but they're claiming that the clan compulsion (which comes up 10% of the time *if* you use the random table as opposed to having the ST assign something tied in to the situation) defines everything and is somehow worse than "your character's a slur, go do crimes". Relevant Tangent posted:would embracing a stolid accountant one day after she retires and standing back to watch the chaos be in keeping with the new ravnos or do you have to take the risks yourself? a ravnos bloodline tailored to the ordo dracul The compulsion is basically "go big or go home" - why settle for just sneaking in to the vault in the dead of night and slinking out when you can instead moonwalk in, convince the nightguard to gently caress everyone with loot in the vault over by letting you in, and do the truffle shuffle on your way out. So, yes you can get other folks to do the plan for you. There's even bonus dice if you convince others to do it!
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Nov 1, 2022 21:59
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citybeatnik posted:They are pointedly *not* associated with the Roma any more. Their ties to disenfranchised folks in the past were a thing of convenience and now the members from those various groups are doing their own thing and making their own myths. I don't think this works, especially when they're still invoking some of the same stereotypes. Is it better than it was? Ssssure, but that doesn't make it good. citybeatnik posted:You might not mean it to come across that way but to me it's like being upset that D&D/Pathfinder/13th Age races get bonuses to certain things. This sentence reads like a red flag to me, but I'll be charitable and say that the major difference is that orcs aren't real and Roma are. I don't think Ravnos will ever be able to shake the association as long as Masquerade maintains metaplot continuity, and the fact that the clan is still deploying racist stereotypes is at best a questionable decision.
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Nov 1, 2022 22:09
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worm girl posted:I don't think this works, especially when they're still invoking some of the same stereotypes. Is it better than it was? Ssssure, but that doesn't make it good. The difficulty is that I'm not seeing it as the same stereotypes. "Dude what literally explodes if they stay in the same place/occasionally acts like they have a death wish because death is literally Hunger 6 away so gently caress it" does *not* read to me as being from the same cloth as "we mined an unfairly marginalized and insular group of people for tropes, now go scam some marks." quote:This sentence reads like a red flag to me, but I'll be charitable and say that the major difference is that orcs aren't real and Roma are. I don't think Ravnos will ever be able to shake the association as long as Masquerade maintains metaplot continuity, and the fact that the clan is still deploying racist stereotypes is at best a questionable decision. Yeah nawh, it's not meant to be read in the way that set off your alarm bells but I can see it coming across that way. My apologies. I meant it more as "i want to punch a dude and so I go towards this or that clan due to their discipline spread", "i want to hex a dude and so[...]", "i want to enforce my will on a dude[...]", that sort of thing. And, again, I think you have to draw a long bow to get "literally cursed by a bloodgod to burst into flames if they linger in one place for the crime of outliving it" in the same ballpark of "*those* people, you know the ones i'm talking about, are all natural criminals and can't be trusted". Hell, even the vault scenario i mentioned earlier can be replaced with "rescuing a friend held captive", "make sure your political candidate wins", or "make the best loving sandwich ever".
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Nov 1, 2022 22:27
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citybeatnik posted:That's the thing, I do agree with that. I agree with part of what they said but they're claiming that the clan compulsion (which comes up 10% of the time *if* you use the random table as opposed to having the ST assign something tied in to the situation) defines everything and is somehow worse than "your character's a slur, go do crimes". In the case of the Ravnos, it is not worse; it is simply the same. One weird, racially-inflected blood compulsion is replaced with a different one. (Then they have a separate curse forcing them to be nomads, so I guess it's worse in terms of raw volume) In the case of many other clans it is worse, though. Nosferatu didn't use to have a compulsion forcing them to be sneaky. Now they do. Why? I am not interested in hearing that it only happens 10% of the time or only at ST prerogative or whatever; the very fact that it's in the book sets a tone and creates certain expectations that should not be there. Ferrinus fucked around with this message at 22:44 on Nov 1, 2022 |
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Nov 1, 2022 22:40
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I'm not even against the idea of modeling weird/unhealthy impulses in RPGs this way. It just gets really dicey when it's based on your in-game bloodline (and all the weird racial vibes that come with that) and isn't just an abstract choice you've made.
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Nov 1, 2022 22:44
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Ferrinus posted:In the case of the Ravnos, it is not worse; it is simply the same. One weird, racially-inflected blood compulsion is replaced with a different one. (Then they have a separate curse forcing them to be nomads, so I guess it's worse in terms of raw volume) To head off an argument, Ferrinus is using worse from a mechanics perspective, Wormgirl is using it from a racism perspective. I think we can all agree that at least the current Ravons clan bane is less dogwhistly, or at least a different dog whistle than the oWoD one. Edit: Also this is an honest question from me: It's been mentioned a couple times that using clan bane is a story teller or player choice and that you can use other more generic banes? Can someone explain more on this?
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Nov 1, 2022 22:52
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I wonder if it would be less objectionable if it was something you chose from a list. The curse brings a compulsion, but it's not guaranteed to be the same as your clan. I'm CoD all the way, but I just started watching loading ready run's Not a Drop to Drink actual play. I'm kind of curious to see how these weird similar but different mechanics play out. Already two of the pcs are clanless, which is a cool mechanic I did not know about. Generation is still dumb though.
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Nov 1, 2022 22:53
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As I'm sure we all fondly remember, the original playtest rules for V5 gave the Brujah the clan compulsion "Triggered" which forced you to get really aggro if someone disagreed with or offended you. New, polished-up, post-Ericsson V5 instead offers us this: tatankatonk posted:Compulsion: Rebellion - the vampire takes a stand against whatever or whomever they see as the status quo in the situation, whether that's their leader, a viewpoint expressed by a potential vessel, or just the task they were supposed to do at the moment. Is this actually any less a slur on "social justice warriors" or people broadly aligned with the political left? You know, those Brujah... sometimes I feel like they're just looking for something to lash out against, you know, they're just so obstinate. Oppositional defiance disorder, they call it. Don't they know that sometimes you should go along to get along?
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Nov 1, 2022 23:09
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Wittgen posted:I wonder if it would be less objectionable if it was something you chose from a list. The curse brings a compulsion, but it's not guaranteed to be the same as your clan. Honestly, I know I just said basically the same thing, but I think it would. The problem isn't that vampires get weird compulsions from their dark bloodlines and all that. The problem is that the Tzimisce all have the same one and the Tzimisce is ultimately Eastern European coded, so whenever it comes up it has the vague vibe of "sorry, the unhealthy personality traits from my Baltic heritage are acting up again". And you have the same issue with every other clan that's historically rooted in an ethnicity. So either you remove the ethnic coding from half the clans (which you can't do without making a cleaner break with the old metaplot than V5 did), or you decouple it from clans. EDIT: Okay, I really misremembered my seas, but you get the point. Lurks With Wolves fucked around with this message at 23:42 on Nov 1, 2022 |
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Nov 1, 2022 23:10
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Ah yes, the Brujah: well known pre-V5 for keeping a level head and not randomly wanting to overthrow things because they stubbed a toe. The play test language was loving stupid and harmful. The fixed version not so much. Soonmot posted:To head off an argument, Ferrinus is using worse from a mechanics perspective, Wormgirl is using it from a racism perspective. I think we can all agree that at least the current Ravons clan bane is less dogwhistly, or at least a different dog whistle than the oWoD one. You get a Bestial Failure (don't meet the target difficulty, one or more of your Hunger Dice comes up a 1), you get a Compulsion. You could hyperfocus on feeding, taking control, hurting dudes, or being afraid of being hurt by dudes. It's your Beast being an rear end in a top hat. Everyone can get those. You can also, if you choose, take a clan compulsion instead. Or you can get it if your ST rolls randomly and gets a 10. And your clarification re what they mean by worse makes some sense.
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Nov 1, 2022 23:45
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citybeatnik posted:Ah yes, the Brujah: well known pre-V5 for keeping a level head and not randomly wanting to overthrow things because they stubbed a toe. In V20 and prior, Brujah had, specifically, a penalty to resist anger frenzy. They DIDN'T randomly want to overthrow things just because they stubbed a toe. "Haw haw those Brujah, so temperamental, if only they could be rational like us" was the self-serving rationale used by those in power to dismiss criticisms of the status quo. Now, in V5, those guys are suddenly correct. The Brujah really are fundamentally irrational! Are people protesting in the streets? Don't pay them any mind, they can't really help themselves. They're just excitable and probably got up on the wrong side of the bed this morning. The thing about "Triggered" was that it was, at least, honest. The new version actually has people defending it, so it's a lot more insidious.
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Nov 2, 2022 01:00
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(re: v5 mechanics ) Bestial failures are sort of like rolling a nat 1 in D&D. There's very roughly around a 5% to 15% chance to get a bestial failure on any roll, depending on hunger, dice pool, and difficulty. Bestial fails can cause compulsions, but you can also knock off a dot like in a messy crit, give out damage, or increase hunger. Those other results are suggested for "troupes that want their characters less prone to acting on urges". The Companion errata allows compulsions on messy crits too, which can double those odds. Messy crits can cause things like stains on humanity, masquerade breaches, or losing a dot from things like resources. I haven't really seen them getting used on compulsions yet, I guess since the list of bad things on a mess is already pretty broad, but that could just be my groups. Willpower use can improve those odds, but you can't use willpower rerolls on hunger dice. On a bad roll you may not even have any dice worth rerolling. So doing things at high hunger is mechanically risky and has a high chance of bestial fail or messy crit. Ferrinus posted:In V20 and prior, Brujah had, specifically, a penalty to resist anger frenzy. That's still around! Now it's a -Bane penalty to fury frenzy so the penalty scales with blood potency.
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Nov 2, 2022 01:24
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There were some bad Clan flaws that forced personalities in previous editions, like the Ravnos. The African Ravnos had a slightly more interesting one, in that they had a chance to commit faux pas that grew higher every week they stayed in the same place. Still bad though. I personally prefer clan flaws to be more mystical/physical in nature.
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Nov 2, 2022 01:44
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It was so much better in Requiem that I'm surprised they didn't just lift the system entirely. Everyone gets the same three types of frenzy, and all that changes is your beast shows its true nature while it's out, so Mekhet tend to behave with sociopathic efficiency, Daeva make themselves the center of attention, Ventrue try to establish dominance, etc. but that really only adjusts the flavor of the frenzy, it doesn't force you to do something that makes no sense. Frenzy is supposed to make more sense than any other action you could take, at least in a short-sighted way. Plus in Requiem no two vampires are really alike, right down to their beasts. One Nossie's beast might be a terrifying monster, another might be more interested in going totally unseen, another might be a creepy control freak, it's down to the player as long as it makes sense with the character concept. Soonmot posted:To head off an argument, Ferrinus is using worse from a mechanics perspective, Wormgirl is using it from a racism perspective. I think we can all agree that at least the current Ravons clan bane is less dogwhistly, or at least a different dog whistle than the oWoD one. I agree, and clearly a genuine attempt was made to clean it up, it's just that as Lurks With Wolves said, you can only do so much without scrapping the clan entirely or rebooting the franchise.
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Nov 2, 2022 02:19
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