PoptartsNinja posted:

Edit: Really, it boils down to the different mindsets of various games. BattleTech players are just excited by the prospect of having someone new to roll dice with, so they don't want to scare you away by telling you that the 1st Sword of Light don't usually paint their 'Mechs canary yellow with purple hazard stripes.

PoptartsNinja posted:

BattleTech is weird about weight class and 'Mech availability, primarily because the line developers have, with rare exceptions (Barber's Marauder IIs), never defined which 'Mechs are in which regiments at any given time. If you're lucky the unit you want to make may list a commander and if you're exceptionally lucky it may even say what that commander rides around in but otherwise it's a blank slate for you to create your own story with. So as long as you get the commander right? You get an A+ for historical accuracy. That's why my Vau Galaxy Falcons have a Hellbringer, because that was Star Colonel Kristen Redmond's ride of choice.

A lack of definite "this unit has four Atlases and thirteen Archers" is only half of the reason. The other half is that there have been monumental shifts in what constitutes a "lightweight unit" over the history of the Inner Sphere. During the 1st succession war a "lightweight unit" might be just a 'Mech regiment without any armor regiments or supporting infantry; and by 3025 a "lightweight unit" might be a normal 'Mech regiment with a two normal battalions and a third made up entirely of Wasps and Stingers.


Prior to 3048 (most of) the Inner Sphere used light 'Mechs as scouts and raiders; mediums as front-line troops; heavies were primarily cavalry and fire support; and assaults were the spearhead unit for frontal assaults. The Dracs were an outlier with their trooper lights but as a general rule everyone operated pretty much the same way. There're a few exceptions, and some are truly exceptional 'Mechs like the Guillotine and Thunderbolt which I'd call heavy troopers, a few are notoriously bad like the Cicada and Charger, and most just aren't "better enough" to replace the 'Mechs that conform to the paradigm like the Longbow when compared to the Archer.


Then the Clans showed up, and their paradigm was wildly different: light 'Mechs were trainers, support units, or 'headhunter' assassination units; mediums were scouts, raiders, and the tip of the proverbial spear; heavies were line troops; and assaults were fire support. There're a few 'Mechs that break the mold here too (like the Mad Dog, which is ultimately just a lighter Archer IIC), but 'Mechs like the Summoner and Hellbringer make a lot more sense once you realize that the Summoner is the Clan version of the Wolverine/Griffin and the Hellbringer is not so much a small Warhammer as it is secretly the front-line Clan version of the Shadow Hawk.


So after 3050 the Inner Sphere swerved hard. They didn't understand the Clan paradigm but accepted doctrine became "if you don't outweigh your Clan opponent by at least 15 tons you're going to lose;" so the states that are front-line with the Clans hard-shift into a Trooper Assault paradigm which pretty much makes their neighbors (the Capellans and Free Worlders) Very Concerned (tm) that everyone else is cramming as many heavy and assault 'Mechs into their militaries as they can. Eventually they scale back to something similar to the Clan paradigm as they figure out what works for them and what doesn't, but the Free Worlders never really get the memo despite their best efforts (Albatross lol) and the Capellans eventually say "gently caress this, we're making our own paradigm rather than trying to keep up with the rest of you idiots."


This is all compounded even more in Rasalhague because they barely had time to establish any doctrines at all before the Clans smashed them and by 3150 they just use the Ghost Bear doctrines (heavy and assault troopers with light assassins and medium scouts) almost 1:1


On the plus side? By 3150, every successor state and Inner Sphere Clan have their own unique doctrinal twists which help give their forces a lot more personality: like the Draconis Combine's shift to a Light + Heavy trooper combo or the Capellan light fire support units and headhunter assassins and their choice to eschew troopers almost entirely in favor of heavy raiders.

Floppychop posted:

That was 30 years ago. Since then we've had two versions of battle value to balance it.

Floppychop posted:

That was 30 years ago. Since then we've had two versions of battle value to balance it.

I see old grogs getting pissy at people that weren't even alive when the clan invasion happened because they want to bring a Timber Wolf or Mad Dog to a pickup game. A lot of new people coming in are picking up the Catalyst mechs, which notably half the packs are Clan mechs. When an old player won't play with anything past 3025 and constantly poo poo-talks the new players that want to, it doesn't exactly lead to the community growing.

Taerkar posted:

Which made the Clan Wolf and Falcon books so abnormal with the entire touman breakdown.

General Battuta posted:

This reminds me: what the gently caress is a Vau Galaxy? Was there a guy named Vau? Did someone get lost on the way to the Greek letter store?

FishFood posted:

Did some quick googling and it might be a reference to this ancient greek letter that isn't really used any more. A lot of Clan stuff seems like history nerd hyper-references (kind of like Caesar in New Vegas) so it would fit.

General Battuta posted:

New (really most post-3050) Clantech is cool. ilClan debuted some mechs that were meant to be the sort of acme or epitome of various factions' design philosophies, and it's neat how different they are. None of them are munched out PPC or pulse laser or LRM boats.

a cyborg mug posted:

There’s a comprehensive cockpit guide floating around the net if you need it, it’s by one of the people who’ve designed the new mechs. I can’t find a link online right now but I have it in my files so if you need it, hit me up

lilljonas posted:

Got started on painting my first mech yesterday. It's a grasshopper, and no poo poo I realized today that I completely misunderstood what part of the head was supposed to be the canopy. But then doing an image search, it seems I'm not the only one.

Icon Of Sin posted:

I want this, but I don’t want to find out how badly I might’ve missed on some of my mechs

Carbolic posted:

When I first saw the TRO:3025 drawing of the Victor, my brain told me it had a long beaked face pointing to the left with a Geordi La Forge-like visor, and that firmly stuck. I wondered why they had changed the head so drastically in TRO:3050.

Decades later, it's still hard to see the TRO:3025 drawing as having a flat face pointing to the right and rear-tapering 'helmet' the way it was evidently intended.

PoptartsNinja posted:

PoptartsNinja posted:

Did you know the Commando's head is actually turned to the side, that the black stripe is the canopy, and that it's looking over its left shoulder? The little bulb on front is a join connected to its neck and is not, in fact, a tiny viewing port for the pilot to look out of.

Der Waffle Mous posted:

Now is the notoriously cramped assassin cockpit the humongous bowl canopy on top that takes the majority of the upper torso or the tiny little window on its "nose"?

PoptartsNinja posted:

It's both

Comstar posted:

Can you tell me what the different factions acme or epitome actually is? Or a link to where I can read it.

I got the impression that the Wolves one is "Plot Armour" but it hard to tell.

Rorahusky posted:

I dunno, I am fond of the jaunty little crooked helmet

General Battuta posted:

Jade Falcon gets the Jade Phoenix, an incredibly mobile jumpy assault that's described as a 'workhorse' in the fluff and by several people who know the game better than me as 'possibly the single best mech in the game, period'.

BattleMaster posted:

I won't say no the the Prime but I'd rather have the A for the lower BV that it costs

Strobe posted:

This is because it jumps 7. The Jade Phoenix A is a killer of men and mechs and there is no mech in the game that can reliably 1v1 it regardless of BV. If the skills are BV matched there might be two mechs in the game that even fight it to a standstill.

DrPop posted:

I understand that it jumps 7. Jumping for a +4 does not make you invulnerable.

I think you could probably handle it pretty easily with a Clan mech in a comparable weight and BV class. I started listing potentials but got bored