|
most gamers have at least heard of doom and also have no loving idea what the hell jazz jackrabbit is
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2022 14:40
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 18:27 |
|
|
Guillermus posted:I played a few free weekends of HUNT and I agree with this. If the game was pure PvE coop would be perfect for me but right now I don't care about getting shot from 200m away by a guy with a sniper rifle while we're fighting one of the NPC objectives. This is a problem with sniper rifles, which should not be in any multiplayer video game, not with PvPvE.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2022 14:57
|
|
|
It's funny, cuz when he said PvPvE the only example I could think of was Warcraft3, which made me nod in agreement. I don't even have an opinion on sniper rifles!
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2022 15:08
|
|
|
I never liked any of the 90s PC platformers. They just felt really weird after playing something like Mario.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2022 15:14
|
|
|
Pennsylvanian posted:I never liked any of the 90s PC platformers. They just felt really weird after playing something like Mario.  I think I tried one in the early 90s and figured they were all poo poo. I still mostly believe that.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2022 15:20
|
|
|
Lemon-Lime posted:This is a problem with sniper rifles, which should not be in any multiplayer video game, not with PvPvE. Snipers either seem to be the best gun in a multiplayer game or they feel horribly underpowered, there doesn't seem to be a lot of wiggle room inbetween those extremes.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2022 15:29
|
|
|
Barudak posted:Its like if you gave Sonic the Hedgehog a gun so its terrible and uncontrollable but I have fondness for it versus the other two you mentioned. The second game is slightly slower paced, much tighter in its controls, and the 640x480 resolution lets you see where the gently caress you're actually going, so it's a lot better than the original. However it's also really easy compared to console platformers or even older PC platformers like Duke Nukem II or Commander Keen.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2022 15:39
|
|
|
Woolie Wool posted:The second game is slightly slower paced, much tighter in its controls, and the 640x480 resolution lets you see where the gently caress you're actually going, so it's a lot better than the original. However it's also really easy compared to console platformers or even older PC platformers like Duke Nukem II or Commander Keen. Also II's soundtrack is a real banger
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2022 16:01
|
|
|
Pennsylvanian posted:I never liked any of the 90s PC platformers. They just felt really weird after playing something like Mario. i liked Hocus Pocus but that was because i spent $10 of birthday money on it and i had a bit of sunk cost going on
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2022 16:02
|
|
|
IronicDongz posted:most gamers have at least heard of doom and also have no loving idea what the hell jazz jackrabbit is I feel like people mostly know it as "the unreal company made a rabbit platformer once, isn't that crazy" and not anything about what it actually contains
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2022 16:07
|
|
|
SeANMcBAY posted:
I can dig that people liked them if they were all that they could play, though to be fair. If you couldn't get Mario, then enjoy your Jazz Jackrabbit or Halloween Harry.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2022 16:16
|
|
|
I have a real fondness for PC platformers. For as much as they clearly try to imitate console platformers, their design ethos is entirely foreign. There's a handful of Turrican/Duke Nukem imitators, but not many, and I don't know of anything similar to the Commander Keen games.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2022 16:19
|
|
|
haveblue posted:I feel like people mostly know it as "the unreal company made a rabbit platformer once, isn't that crazy" and not anything about what it actually contains I feel like a lot of people associate Jazz Jackrabbit with Cliffy B, when Arjan Brussee deserves at least as much credit. So I suddenly got curious what happened to him. Seems besides the Jazz Jackrabbit games he worked on Tyrian, but afterwards he mostly worked for/with Dutch game studios for various things. One of those projects was the first Age of Wonders, but the noteworthy games came after he became the co-founder of Guerilla Games. There is a small chance you remember Shellshock: Nam '67, but you definitely know the Killzone games. After Killzone 3 he switched to Visceral/EA for Battlefield: Hardline, but then founded Boss Key Productions with Cliffy B. He worked on Lawbreakers, but I can't find info if he was still around for the even bigger failure that was their second, battle royale game. Either way, he's been back at Epic for some years as a "Product Director for Unreal Engine". Seems he has come full circle. Mierenneuker fucked around with this message at 16:45 on Nov 2, 2022 |
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2022 16:40
|
|
|
I played the poo poo out of OG Doom and...I guess heard of Jazz Jackrabbit? but frequently confused it with Bucky O'Hare. EDIT: Which, upon review, probably wasn't very weird:  
Cream-of-Plenty fucked around with this message at 16:44 on Nov 2, 2022 |
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2022 16:40
|
|
|
Cosmo was the only PC platformer I played back in the day because my buddy had it. Thought it was the weirdest thing.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2022 17:02
|
|
|
I only played some kind of Christmas demo version of Jazz Jackrabbit that had a few levels in it. Halloween Harry was good although I’m pretty sure I also only played the shareware. I still remember the satisfaction of spamming the bouncing grenades everywhere, and the central mechanic of starting with a flamethrower & jetpack that shared fuel was pretty cool.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2022 17:03
|
|
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YfNFYGUWQ0 Jazz Jackrabbit was my loving jam, well, the shareware demos were.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2022 17:09
|
|
|
Mierenneuker posted:I feel like a lot of people associate Jazz Jackrabbit with Cliffy B, when Arjan Brussee deserves at least as much credit. So I suddenly got curious what happened to him. Funny. I really dug the gameplay of Killzone 3. I tried Shadowfall recently, and wasn't impressed. It seemed more like a tech demo for the PS4. I also liked the gameplay of Hardline's multiplayer, but well, Hardline.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2022 17:13
|
|
|
Why was it that like, almost all pc platformers were absolute dogwater? There's like a couple passable ones like Duke Nukem but even then.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2022 17:24
|
|
|
Glagha posted:Why was it that like, almost all pc platformers were absolute dogwater? There's like a couple passable ones like Duke Nukem but even then. It goes beyond that. Western made platformers were garbage too on console except for very few notable exceptions.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2022 17:29
|
|
|
The biggest issue was that DOS gaming for a long time didn't have super great scrolling. What Commander Keen did with smooth scrolling was actually pretty revolutionary for computer gaming at the time, which was born out of a SMB3-for-PC prototype. But just having that doesn't make a great platformer alone. Console developers (or even arcade developers for that matter) had a headstart on figuring out how to make a jump feel good, for example, while SoftDisk, Epic, Apogee, and, idk, the Skunny people?? were only just learning how to do it at all. Before smooth scrolling, characters had no acceleration or deceleration to their jump, they would just go up and down at a single speed like a default motion tween in Flash animation. Then there's working how how best to handle damage. I am pretty sure there are a couple of Apogee games where you have no i-frames and just drain health like crazy when touching an enemy (and then I think the Commander Keen games from iD/SoftDisk were one-touch-and-die). While knockback mechanics in games like Megaman can be annoying, it's also at least some kind of damage feedback, which DOS games generally did not have at all. Still, I think the Keen games are interesting. Because it was people learning how to do it on their own and coming from a different world, DOS platformers kind of play by different rules. They have more collectathon elements to them, the level designs are funkier and more mazey, some even had colored keys and key gates. Some levels in Keen start with you entering from the right, or entering at the top of a stage and travelling downward. I also loved the pogo stick even though it was unwieldy as gently caress. The 7th Guest fucked around with this message at 17:37 on Nov 2, 2022 |
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2022 17:31
|
|
|
Mierenneuker posted:I feel like a lot of people associate Jazz Jackrabbit with Cliffy B, when Arjan Brussee deserves at least as much credit. So I suddenly got curious what happened to him. So Jazz Jackrabbit, Tyrian, Age of Wonders 1 (my fave), cofounder of Guerrilla Games, and finally director at Epic? That's a drat good CV!
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2022 17:39
|
|
|
Commander Keen 4 is still fantastic.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2022 18:02
|
|
|
The 7th Guest posted:The biggest issue was that DOS gaming for a long time didn't have super great scrolling. What Commander Keen did with smooth scrolling was actually pretty revolutionary for computer gaming at the time, which was born out of a SMB3-for-PC prototype. Yeah this seems to be the key thing, and of course it happens to tie in nicely with the whole thread topic with the as Commander Keen thing. For reasons I don't fully understand, PCs just could not do smooth/fast scrolling for the vast majority of the 8 & 16 bit console era. That just seemed to kneecap any attempts, even though in theory you'd think they could still put something good together. Amiga, with its more capable graphics hardware, had a few good ones like Superfrog, but  Amiga. I guess the PC versions of Zool weren't bad either, but they were still missing something.Also it probably shouldn't be understated that it took a pretty long while for good gamepads to be easily available on PCs, and even then, getting the drivers to work was usually a nightmare. For all of the above reasons, the only side-scrollers that seemed viable on PC during that era were the ones more tailored to a deliberate pace, like Flashback or Blackthorne. Speaking of which, I've always had a soft spot for the weird "side-scrolling deathmatch platformer" Sierra game Hunter Hunted, even though it was janky as hell. Amazing soundtrack if nothing else. Classic late-90s Redbook industrial stuff that some unknown put way too much effort into. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJb9MMX8S4Y
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2022 18:09
|
|
|
Turin Turambar posted:So Jazz Jackrabbit, Tyrian, Age of Wonders 1 (my fave), cofounder of Guerrilla Games, and finally director at Epic? That's a drat good CV! Sorry, correction on Age of Wonders, apparently he just gets a special thanks. That's my bad. But also in the credits for that game Mark Rein gets a mention as "Support", alongside Jay Wilbur. I wouldn't be surprised if Arjan got them in touch with folks like that, since he probably had some contacts from his time at Epic. I'm really reading into that tho. Mierenneuker fucked around with this message at 18:22 on Nov 2, 2022 |
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2022 18:10
|
|
|
Serephina posted:It's funny, cuz when he said PvPvE the only example I could think of was Warcraft3, which made me nod in agreement. I don't even have an opinion on sniper rifles! The creeps as a tertiary resource in wc3 were extremely well implemented though Did anyone ever play that Chex FPS Milo and POTUS fucked around with this message at 18:16 on Nov 2, 2022 |
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2022 18:12
|
|
|
Rupert Buttermilk posted:Commander Keen 4 is still fantastic. And 5 and 6, of course. Certainly in the running to be my favorite games ever.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2022 18:20
|
|
|
KozmoNaut posted:And 5 and 6, of course. I agree, I just hadn't played them that much. I was a die-hard shareware kid. My first 'complete' games were The Neverhood and Caesar II.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2022 18:26
|
|
The 7th Guest posted:The biggest issue was that DOS gaming for a long time didn't have super great scrolling. I want to say that there was a really good summary of these issues and the technology done by a YouTuber while talking about Mega Man for the PC, but I haven’t been able to find it again.
|
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2022 18:29
|
|
|
There's a Jazz Jackrabbit TC for Doom that's an absolute blast. If you want to cross your two nostalgia streams, of course
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2022 18:30
|
|
|
Milo and POTUS posted:The creeps as a tertiary resource in wc3 were extremely well implemented though Chex Quest? I think I still have the CD from back in the day, and it's available for free (with added bonus episode 3!) on the creator's website. Episode 1 isn't nearly as hard as I remember and even Episode 3 isn't that difficult. And Chex are still a garbage cereal but a wonderful snack ingredient.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2022 18:31
|
|
|
I do still kinda want to play Duke 1/2 since they come before 3D and it bothers me I haven’t since I’m a weirdo.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2022 18:40
|
|
|
SeANMcBAY posted:I do still kinda want to play Duke 1/2 since they come before 3D and it bothers me I haven’t since I’m a weirdo. Hell, try it out right now!
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2022 18:42
|
|
|
If you ever do a ROM dump of SNES or Genesis, it's fair to point out that even a majority of console platformers were bad (like a majority of the games released period were bad). A lot of them kind of played like a mixture of DOS platformers or early Sonic games, without any of the appealing parts of said games.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2022 18:44
|
|
|
Rupert Buttermilk posted:Commander Keen 4 is still fantastic. You don't know how happy I was when I discovered (a few years after playing it) that it was developed by the creators of by then one of my favorite games, Doom, as when I first played Keen I was younger and didn't spent any attention to logos or credits. Same with Abuse, I played the poo poo of that game.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2022 18:44
|
|
|
Pennsylvanian posted:If you ever do a ROM dump of SNES or Genesis, it's fair to point out that even a majority of console platformers were bad (like a majority of the games released period were bad). A lot of them kind of played like a mixture of DOS platformers or early Sonic games, without any of the appealing parts of said games. True but even the best dos platformers are still equal to, at best, like a c tier platformer on those consoles.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2022 18:48
|
|
|
Glagha posted:Why was it that like, almost all pc platformers were absolute dogwater? There's like a couple passable ones like Duke Nukem but even then. Rupert Buttermilk posted:Commander Keen 4 is still fantastic. PC Platformers tend to have very good freeware versions and then really perfunctory full versions. Commander Keen 1 and 4 are excellent; Keens 2, 3, 5 and 6, not so much. Duke Nukem episode 1 is solid, but episodes 2 and 3 feel pretty repetitious. So too with most of them, with Duke Nukem 2 being an exception. I'd guess its mostly a consequence of the shareware model?
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2022 19:08
|
|
|
The one thing that always hosed me up about those games was the sound.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2022 19:27
|
|
|
Groovelord Neato posted:The one thing that always hosed me up about those games was the sound. To this day I wonder what they were smoking when they made the sound effects for Jill Of The Jungle.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2022 19:44
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 18:27 |
|
|
Regarding the team from Commander Keen going on to make Doom and early PC games that found a way to work with the issues PCs experienced with side-scrolling in that era, I was absolutely flabbergasted when I learned recently what the Lemmings developers next big project was.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2022 19:47
|
|
