|
explosivo posted:But it is still technically possible to do going in on the calling card day? I think it actually would be yeah, you just gotta be extra careful to not get spotted (which honestly should be pretty easy since you can warp around from save rooms)
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2022 23:21
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 01:05 |
|
|
Sydin posted:The game just flat out does not respect the intelligence of the player at all even when you take into consideration it's targeted primarily at kids. It wastes so much time in particular any time it introduces a new puzzle element by having the entire game grind to a halt so the characters can stand around and spell out exactly how to beat the puzzle to one another before you can even try it! The floor maze puzzle in the second to last palace and the psyche exam rooms in the last palace stand out as the most egregious to me, but it's everywhere. Ditto the build up to a lot of palaces, like dear god the group spends over a week agonizing over whether Madarame is really evil or not before somebody goes "hey maybe we should try punching his name into the nav" and immediately getting a hit which solves this whole dumb question. Or how by like your fifth change of heart the group is still spamming you every night with texts over "will the change of heart work this time? Are we doing the right thing???" and I don't understand how Joker does not strangle each and every one of these loving goobers, or at least silence his phone after a while. Whenever you assume a game doesn't respect intelligence, recall fun game design quirks like 'if we don't clearly signpost a path people will literally walk in circles until they get bored' or 'you can't assume more than 2 steps of logic in puzzles outside of puzzle games' P5 goes overboard but God drat if people's brains don't shut off super often.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2022 00:26
|
|
|
explosivo posted:But it is still technically possible to do going in on the calling card day? Can you use a safe room and go to the entrance and re explore?
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2022 00:53
|
|
|
explosivo posted:But it is still technically possible to do going in on the calling card day? You can explore the entire dungeon on calling card day so I don't see why not.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2022 01:02
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:Whenever you assume a game doesn't respect intelligence, recall fun game design quirks like 'if we don't clearly signpost a path people will literally walk in circles until they get bored' or 'you can't assume more than 2 steps of logic in puzzles outside of puzzle games' My first blind attempt at P3 FES ended I reached the second full moon and hadn't done enough grinding. As that's pretty much game over I bailed and didn't poke the series again until years later. P5 has a clearly displayed timer and constant callouts from your crew to prevent that, so while I know the formula and no longer need to think about it I guess it'll save people from missing out. I know that "no hints, no quest markers, keep your own paper journal and maps!" is now a feature that gets sold but as someone who thought the first RPG I played with automapping was revolutionary I can attest to the old times sucking. It's a broader design discussion but I wonder if game designers agonize over the exact amount of info to provide. It gets into a chicken/egg scenario where if you repeat the info to make sure it sinks in then you risk people mashing past the text because so much of it is repeated. Then you need to repeat more, more mashing, etc.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2022 01:26
|
|
|
explosivo posted:But it is still technically possible to do going in on the calling card day? Technically possible - but the dungeon alertness starts at 100% and you'll probably find the will seed fight harder than the Madarame fight. On the other discussion the Will Seeds are a huge step in the right direction for Persona's difficulty. You can't miss the main boss fights (and they aren't hard) but it is entirely possible to miss Will Seeds, which are mostly there for the swag. And your party members don't find them for you or hold your hands to get them. Disaster Shadows were a great addition - and I'd join the chorus wanting mini-palaces or ones segmented the way Madarame's is over testing your skill by doing it in one sitting. At least we're not talking the P3 Final Boss.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2022 02:06
|
|
|
I got the Will Seed accessory from the Madarame dungeon and I don't anticipate removing it from Joker any time soon. Straight up removing all of your weaknesses (probably doesn't need spoiler tags but just being safe) is a shockingly good effect for something you get in the second dungeon.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2022 03:07
|
|
|
ajkalan posted:I got the Will Seed accessory from the Madarame dungeon and I don't anticipate removing it from Joker any time soon. Straight up removing all of your weaknesses (probably doesn't need spoiler tags but just being safe) is a shockingly good effect for something you get in the second dungeon. Honestly that one's less useful than it appears, especially for Joker and after the first dungeon. There are other ways of getting equivalent effects onto Joker including that it's entirely redundant on some personas, and most of the bosses don't use elemental attacks.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2022 04:20
|
|
|
neonchameleon posted:Technically possible - but the dungeon alertness starts at 100% and you'll probably find the will seed fight harder than the Madarame fight. Party members do point out willseed rooms and you can hear them
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2022 04:39
|
|
|
They really needed to have some sort of barrier in the Spaceman Palace so you couldn't finish it until literally the last day.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2022 05:08
|
|
|
Pwnstar posted:They really needed to have some sort of barrier in the Spaceman Palace so you couldn't finish it until literally the last day. They all should have operated that way. It's an extremely minor writing tweak to say the calling card only works to make the treasure tangible when the person getting it thinks they're on the cusp of victory, so secure your route whenever you want but you always steal the treasure right at the deadline. This also solves Futaba's three week long coma and Shido inexplicably being propped up on live TV to accept his election victory weeks after it's become clear his heart's changed and he'll spill everything given the chance.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2022 05:18
|
|
|
Got the seeds no problem, kicked the dog piss out of madarame. Game owns. If you need me I'll be listening to the last day infiltration theme on repeat for the next few months.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2022 05:43
|
|
|
I'm going to take the bold and daring stance that Sphinx Mom? Bad mom.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2022 13:19
|
|
|
HootTheOwl posted:I'm going to take the bold and daring stance that Sphinx Mom? Bad mom.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2022 13:30
|
|
|
Forcing the calling card on the last day would make more narrative sense but the game over screen for a boss fight gives you a trap door back to the day before the calling card was sent so you can go do some more grinding. It would kind of suck to have to (re)play through an entire month before you know if you're ready to take on the palace boss or not. Besides, the Casino dungeon does in fact force you to do this so that the timing of the flash-forward lines up correctly.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2022 14:17
|
|
|
I just did the Pyramid (and am waiting for the consequences) I gotta say, the more Yusuke the better, and I have to believe there 100% was a gay romance plot with him, or Joker was female at some point.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2022 14:47
|
|
|
Are you telling me my choices are: 1. Romance my teacher 2. Get "special massages" from my teacher while dating someone else 3. Miss out on sweet Valentine's day chocolate 4. All of the above ? Reik fucked around with this message at 15:04 on Nov 3, 2022 |
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2022 14:57
|
|
|
Pyramid dungeon probably had my favorite background music out of all the dungeons and was one of the game's high points in general because it shook up the formula somewhat. Its conclusion got me a lil misty eyed. Shame it's flanked by the two worst dungeons in the game.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2022 15:35
|
|
|
Sapozhnik posted:Forcing the calling card on the last day would make more narrative sense but the game over screen for a boss fight gives you a trap door back to the day before the calling card was sent so you can go do some more grinding. It would kind of suck to have to (re)play through an entire month before you know if you're ready to take on the palace boss or not. Besides, the Casino dungeon does in fact force you to do this so that the timing of the flash-forward lines up correctly. You could do it via the Sae style "secure the path" to pick the point you go back to on the Boss Game Over screen.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2022 15:47
|
|
|
Sapozhnik posted:Pyramid dungeon probably had my favorite background music out of all the dungeons and was one of the game's high points in general because it shook up the formula somewhat. Its conclusion got me a lil misty eyed. You’re telling me the space palace is potentially as bad or worse than the bank? Because the bank was miserable. So much pointless busywork and drudgery.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2022 16:00
|
|
|
I like the space palace though it's extremely long (it was even longer in the base game)
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2022 16:05
|
|
|
I liked bank's first half music.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2022 16:15
|
|
|
The stupid key card hunt at the beginning of the Space palace was exhausting in its own right and that was just the opening third. The entire thing just felt like an absolute chore. The two bad dungeons are also made that much worse by the crew acting like total idiots in the surrounding plot beats.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2022 16:28
|
|
|
SMT5 is realy good huh
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2022 16:30
|
|
|
precision posted:SMT5 is realy good huh I disagree.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2022 16:34
|
|
|
SMTV is epic.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2022 16:35
|
|
|
Reik posted:Are you telling me my choices are: Royal adds friendship chocolates from everybody you don't date, so you can still get chocolate if you don't date anybody. I'm not sure how to fix the other two options, although I'm sure somebody's already working on a mod to replace Ms. Kawakami with Persona 4's Mr Morooka.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2022 16:35
|
|
|
Cloacamazing! posted:Royal adds friendship chocolates from everybody you don't date, so you can still get chocolate if you don't date anybody. I'm not sure how to fix the other two options, although I'm sure somebody's already working on a mod to replace Ms. Kawakami with Persona 4's Mr Morooka. Kawakami would probably make more bucks if she had Morooka's attitude toward her clients tbh
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2022 16:37
|
|
|
I'd like a mod that deletes all the redundant dialogue and text message conversations, that would be pretty sweet
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2022 16:41
|
|
|
Sapozhnik posted:I'd like a mod that deletes all the redundant dialogue and text message conversations, that would be pretty sweet I understand why they felt they had to do it, but having the NPCs nag you every day about going to the next dungeon while there is a giant red countdown timer on the screen is a bit much.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2022 16:49
|
|
|
Feel like p4 was worse for that. We'll go into the TV when I SAY we go into the TV now get out of my way I have gundams to build
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2022 16:52
|
|
|
Yeah but they need to shut up when the dungeon is over and we're just waiting for a change of heart
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2022 16:55
|
|
|
Were there even more of those in the original game, or did I just get used to them
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2022 16:56
|
|
|
Sapozhnik posted:I'd like a mod that deletes all the redundant dialogue You'd shave like half the main story's runtime this way Strikers did a lot of things better but cutting down on the circling the characters do at the end of almost every conversation is the best
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2022 17:05
|
|
|
HootTheOwl posted:I liked bank's first half music.  the Bank is probably the only dungeon Royal actively made worse, both because a) Price only plays for the first half of the dungeon instead of the whole thing, and b) the tumbler vault puzzle goes on way too long now. Which is weird because it's the only vanilla puzzle I can think of that Royal lengthens rather than shortens.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2022 17:55
|
|
|
BurningBeard posted:You’re telling me the space palace is potentially as bad or worse than the bank? Space Palace was bad even compared to Bank in vanilla (and remember that Vanilla didn't have Will Seeds). It had a huge makeover in Royal so it's a lot shorter and a lot more thematic with entertaining details. But the worst Palace in vanilla wasn't the bank and it wasn't even the spaceport. It was Mementos. All the areas of Mementos in the base game used the same tileset as the first area and Jose was added in Royal (meaning no flowers, no stamps, no increasing rewards, and I think no secret walls in Vanilla). Also they reworked Ryuji's instakill mechanic for Royal so there were no vehicular homicide sprees in Vanilla. Oh, and no disaster shadows to break up the combat. It was a fairly miserable miniboss rush in practice.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2022 18:06
|
|
|
also there was only one mementos theme in the first game and you didn't get the cool bit in the extra semester where the final mementos theme is a rework of the first one
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2022 18:08
|
|
|
neonchameleon posted:Space Palace was bad even compared to Bank in vanilla (and remember that Vanilla didn't have Will Seeds). It had a huge makeover in Royal so it's a lot shorter and a lot more thematic with entertaining details. Yeah the ID card puzzle in vanilla was, by itself, basically the length of the entire Space Port dungeon in Royal. The Casino also just has an entire puzzle straight up cut in the card maze.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2022 18:15
|
|
|
Feels Villeneuve posted:also there was only one mementos theme in the first game and you didn't get the cool bit in the extra semester where the final mementos theme is a rework of the first one All the royal mementos themes are bops, too. My least favorite dungeon on my first playthrough was 7, on ng+ it was 5 Those damned mouse mazes
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2022 19:50
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 01:05 |
|
|
Okumura's Palace definitely went on too long in vanilla, my first run at P5 died at the Casino and I think fatigue from the Spaceport was a significant part of that. I did like the airlock puzzles though, I hope those stayed in Royal and the keycard bit I barely remember was cut.
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2022 01:43
|
|