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Luigi Thirty posted:I think someone needs to take a look at POP migrations, since I’ve had mass emigration of Yankee culture POPs to Lazio and Romagna now. That’s backwards! Why are 200,000 Americans suddenly all moving to Rome at once? this seems to be a common problem, I have also had mass emigration from the US back to Europe. Also slavery was never abolished and literally every single non-slave Afro-American pop has emigrated by my current game date (1922) due to a combination of low standard of living and racial discrimination. There are no free black people left in the US. This was a huge problem, because uprisings that win independence inherit their parent nation's laws. When an Afro-American uprising successfully took control of most of the American South, it had no pops who could vote, because slavery is still legal, all of the Afro-American pops are enslaved, and all of the Dixie/Yankee/miscellaneous white pops were disenfranchised by the new state's Racial Segregation law (inherited from the US, but with the effects now inverted because the new state's primary culture is Afro-American) here's what they look like after tag-switching over to them: 
Mister Bates fucked around with this message at 19:49 on Nov 3, 2022 |
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Nov 3, 2022 19:41
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dublish posted:The US has a decision to take Oregon and Washington, but it requires successfully completing the (33% chance Oregon Trail trigger of the?) Mapping the Western Frontier journal entry first. For what it's worth, the Western Frontier journal entry is kinda neat in that the effects of earlier expeditions can have benefits for later ones, like "Oh the first expedition built a fort here, we get to take advantage of it now." Makes repeated expeditions somewhat easier. Though, it also breaks it a bit somewhat. My first expedition basically met Sacagawea and along the way saw the birth of her child before failing - the second expedition got to a village and had the option of leaving the baby with the village, despite presumably not having met Sacagawea. Some of these journal entries could really use some cleaning up.
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Nov 3, 2022 19:46
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I really really hope the devs can fix the worst problems with the game because after playing for 60 hours the major flaws are starting to become a lot more clear. Most of them SEEM like things that should be fixable, but for years people thought paradox could figure out an AI that could manage planets in Stellaris and that never happened. The latest patch has introduced a new crippling bug. Trade centers require infrastructure now, and they only made the circular trade bug worse. So now the AI's are even worse at growing their economies because they end up in massive infrastructure debt from trying to run their entire economy from imports and exports and all their infra and workers get sucked into trade buildings. My top flaws I hope to see addressed: -AI barely develops their economy, they'll sit there with oil in their market being +75% price and simply not build oil wells or whatever is in demand and they have open slots for. -Wages and welfare and unemployment seem very fucky like something is very much not working as intended. -Military management is a fiddly confusing chore and there's so much jank and weirdness, specially around naval invasions and which armies can participate. -Very clear stack overflow problems that should never have made it past basic QA. -Lots of diplomatic weirdness like only being able to annex vassals with poor relations and other very non intuitive design choices. Vassals in general are kind of awful due to the braindead economic AI resulting in your vassals never building much so it's always always better to annex them. -A lack of notifications or popups resulting in so many events just zipping past you unless your eyes are glued to the bottom right at all times. Please let us choose notification style. Hell there isn't even a pop up for a diplomatic play ending because the other side concedes. It just happens. Canada can get entire provinces without any notification. Please, please more pop up notifications!
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Nov 3, 2022 19:46
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i dontn want the ai building buildings. im not the state or the government. i amt he invisible hand of the market and the game will bow to my will.
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Nov 3, 2022 19:55
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dublish posted:The US has a decision to take Oregon and Washington, but it requires successfully completing the (33% chance Oregon Trail trigger of the?) Mapping the Western Frontier journal entry first. It also requires owning all of Montana. In my first game the Canadians ate that one native nation and forever locked me out of the Oregon treaty
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Nov 3, 2022 19:57
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Jazerus posted:yeah, US/canada border gore is historical but both sides hated it so much that they worked out a straight line border. not having a land swap event seems like an oversight to me 54’40 or fight, bitch
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Nov 3, 2022 20:04
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Magil Zeal posted:Most of that sounds good, but I am skeptical about "private-sector autonomous construction". Based on the AI's economic performance that I've seen, I don't really want to hand anything over to them in terms of my own development. Making the various economic systems feel more distinct is a good goal, I just am always more than a bit leery of the idea of turning anything in a strategy game over to the AI. To clarify on this; based on other posts by Wiz, if they decide to do this it will essentially replace the current investment pool fund (which is basically free money the player gets to spend with some restrictions) with AI-driven automatic construction. So currently you might get £10,000 / week into your investment pools from capitalists, under the new system capitalists would instead use £10,000 / week worth of raw resources to build their own factories instead. Obviously numbers will change and there's a million details which would have to be worked out, but it wouldn't reduce the player's ability to use "normal" income in the way that they want. The reason why this is a neat idea (and isn't just simulationist wankery that doesn't make the game any better) is that the AI would be designed to maximise individual profits rather than generally boost the economy, so in essence the capitalist / aristocrat AI would be playing its own game with different objectives to the player. Wealthier pops means stronger IGs that those pops support, so this would tie back in to the political simulation in desirable ways without requiring the player to intentionally act suboptimally, and without forcing the player to develop an entire economy based on the whims of the AI. And if you somehow manage to get your objectives and the AI objectives to align, even better. This would also mean that starting out in a heavily aristrocratic agrarian society is going to feel significantly more different from starting in a European state which is already industrialising, since regardless of the player's wishes there would be AI "interia" to fight against while you're trying to reform the economy.
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Nov 3, 2022 20:05
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I'm running the mod that supposedly improves the AI's ability to place buildings, but I've found that even without the mod, building all of the industries you're interested in in certain areas and then allowing them to expand autonomously works really well for slowly growing your economy. Of course, sometimes you come in and build 100 of a building because your research is about to finish and you know you'll be consuming twice as much coal or whatever, but it's nice to have the basic buildings slowly grow over time without my input. The AI seems to do a decent job of slow and sustainable growth, where I crash the government budget and then skyrocket output as soon as whatever I'm pushing through finishes.
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Nov 3, 2022 20:06
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RabidWeasel posted:To clarify on this; based on other posts by Wiz, if they decide to do this it will essentially replace the current investment pool fund (which is basically free money the player gets to spend with some restrictions) with AI-driven automatic construction. thath sounds cool actually
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Nov 3, 2022 20:08
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A concept I've been thinking of in terms of AI-driven production would be for each market to have a "Market Firm" that's funded through capitalist dividends and has independent construction sectors in the capital of each country within the market. The firm would build new buildings based on a dumb "what generates profit" algorithm. It could be set to prioritize industrial development for the owner of the market and their favored subjects, and extractive development for colonies and other members of the market. It would also debt fund buildings, and if an exponential increase of capital couldn't be secured year after year then the firm would go into delinquency until it's debt burden is paid off. So like: * The UK is the leader of the British market, so the British Market Firm operates 8 construction sectors with a set policy to build industrial/resource buildings. * Hyderabad is a subject in the British market, so the British Market Firm operates 2 construction sectors with a set policy to build resource and agricultural buildings only. * Upper Canada is a dominion under the UK, so the British Market Firm operates 4 construction sectors with a set policy to build industrial/resource/agricultural buildings. * The British Market Firm wants to construct $400,000 worth of new buildings and has an existing debt burden of $2,000,000, and thus needs to raise $300,000 (1/2 of new construction + 1/10th of debt) in (x amount of time) through the dividends of all capitalists within the British market. If it raises the money, the buildings are put into the respective construction queues of the various countries within the British market but with a star or other symbol on it to show it's only being built by the market construction sector. * If the Market Firm can't raise the capital need then it goes into delinquency, where it immediately fires everybody from it's construction sectors and won't approve any new construction until it's debt is fully paid off by incoming dividends. The Market Firm should want more and more funds at an exponential rate, so that eventually the real economy can't keep up and the bubble is forced to burst. I'm sure there's a bunch of problems with it that I haven't thought of yet, but it adds ai 'pure capitalist' construction to satisfy the people who want clipper factories in 1901, creates a system for extractive development for peripheral members of larger economics, and cyclical crisis's of overproduction/demand destruction which the game is currently lacking.
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Nov 3, 2022 20:13
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RabidWeasel posted:the capitalist / aristocrat AI would be playing its own game with different objectives to the player. Wealthier pops means stronger IGs that those pops support, so this would tie back in to the political simulation in desirable ways without requiring the player to intentionally act suboptimally, and without forcing the player to develop an entire economy based on the whims of the AI.
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Nov 3, 2022 20:26
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RabidWeasel posted:To clarify on this; based on other posts by Wiz, if they decide to do this it will essentially replace the current investment pool fund (which is basically free money the player gets to spend with some restrictions) with AI-driven automatic construction. It sounds like a great concept. It still fundamentally relies on the AI being able to have a goal and use the tools the game gives it to pursue that goal. I am skeptical, but I suppose there's nothing to do but see how it pans out. It is still just "experimenting with the idea" right now, after all. Because the way it sounds, it seems comparable to paying very high wage capitalists (or aristocrats, as the case may be) to have a mini-nation within your nation that has access to your market and builds stuff to feed into your market. And I have not been impressed by the performance of other states that I invite into my market so far.
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Nov 3, 2022 20:26
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Isn’t that how Vicky 2 worked and why the AI just built one type of factory over and over again. Like they sure as poo poo didn’t care about the economy as a whole
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Nov 3, 2022 20:28
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AIs being able to fund buildingss that increase their power would be neat, as would a sort of bonus construction capacity that can only be used on certain types of buildings key thing is to make so that the player isn't locked out of doing things and make what's driving the AIs decision visible and easy to see.
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Nov 3, 2022 20:30
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CharlestheHammer posted:Isn’t that how Vicky 2 worked and why the AI just built one type of factory over and over again. Vicky 2 capitalist AI was comically bad at building the thing that would make them money.
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Nov 3, 2022 20:31
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Baronjutter posted:I really really hope the devs can fix the worst problems with the game because after playing for 60 hours the major flaws are starting to become a lot more clear. Most of them SEEM like things that should be fixable, but for years people thought paradox could figure out an AI that could manage planets in Stellaris and that never happened. Adding to this, a wishlist of my own, mostly UI-related: - Ability to select and command multiple generals/admirals at once, maybe an auto-assign button to automatically deploy to the nearest/most vulnerable fronts. Right now with just attack/defend/stand by for armies, there isn't a lot for players to do except clicking the same buttons a bunch of times - Improved construction interface, click/drag or type to reorder priorities like they eventually added to HOI4 - Spreadsheets! - Improved diplomatic tool-tips, instead of "No diplomatic plays available" there should be something telling us "You're in a truce" or "Your relations need to be under 30". I'd also prefer that we can perform these actions anyway but with penalties, ie truce-breaking gives you a prestige hit / infamy / can sway neutral countries to the defender's side - Add war goals map mode could use improvement, should be easier to just click on the map or find province info from tooltips - Available infrastructure column added to the construction interface, I think you can see this in a few tooltips in the building map mode but it would be nice to quickly sort your states by available infrastructure while taking into account buildings that are queued for construction but not built yet - Journal entries should show more details in the outlier when they are pinned, and auto-pin new journal entries. Maybe some notification icons up when there are decisions available or journal items coming up on their expiration dates. There isn't much of a reason to go into the journal tab most of the time so I tend to find myself forgetting it exists. Maybe that's just me though The notifications thing is an interesting point, I remember one time trying a Vicky 2 MP game as Britain and becoming incredibly frustrated with the constant pop-ups. I like the way Vicky 3 does it but I do miss some really important events at times, for instance when a country starts a diplomatic play against you or an ally, that would be a good time for a pop up imo bees everywhere fucked around with this message at 20:38 on Nov 3, 2022 |
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Nov 3, 2022 20:31
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OddObserver posted:Vicky 2 capitalist AI was comically bad at building the thing that would make them money. I have extremely bad news about the intelligence of Vicky 3s AI
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Nov 3, 2022 20:33
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RabidWeasel posted:To clarify on this; based on other posts by Wiz, if they decide to do this it will essentially replace the current investment pool fund (which is basically free money the player gets to spend with some restrictions) with AI-driven automatic construction. Sounds like a cool concept but I struggle to think of how you would effectively communicate what they are doing and how it affects you and your nation, if it's mostly in the background/invisible then it'd just end up being frustrating I think (like people already frustrated about countries being able to mess with your economy with trade routes). And tying it into capitalist/aristocrat investment pool also means that you are once against out of luck if you play any kind of communist country and create the dynamic that wanting a decent political system requires you to go back to not having any AI factory (very aristocratic ones too). But also making capitalist based economies miserable for people who don't want their economy messed with without their permission (again, like trade routes currently are).
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Nov 3, 2022 20:34
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RabidWeasel posted:To clarify on this; based on other posts by Wiz, if they decide to do this it will essentially replace the current investment pool fund (which is basically free money the player gets to spend with some restrictions) with AI-driven automatic construction. That does sound like a neat idea, more interesting than just goiing "do the building stuff for me AI". Just very hard to get working right.
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Nov 3, 2022 20:37
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CharlestheHammer posted:I have extremely bad news about the intelligence of Vicky 3s AI "This resource is very expensive in the market I am currently part of. I am able to cheaply extract this resource. Should I do so? Nah, instead let's just switch on a bunch of work modes that use the resource."
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Nov 3, 2022 20:43
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If the aristocrats just build random plantations and the capitalists just build random factories that would honestly be fine and interesting. The player will actually be conscious and able to balance your economy around these decisions. Worst case if they're tanking a good's value you can start exporting it. The dysfunction of the current AI nations shouldn't enter into it. If they're dumb, honestly that just adds a gameplay challenge that, unlike Victoria 2, you actually have the tools to deal with. Dumbass southern planters overproducing cotton? You better find a market for it if you don't want their regional economy to collapse. Dumbass capitalists making steel factories while you're running out of coal? Looks like you've gotta start doing some imperialism to fix their mess. Of course if there keep being goods like steamers that have no use in the world market they can potentially still gently caress you over, but that's an issue with steamers being inherently linked to ironclads that should probably be addressed first. And as long as you keep getting to set production methods there's only so much damage they can do to your economy. You should be able to find something to do with whatever factory they build for you.
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Nov 3, 2022 21:02
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Eiba posted:If the aristocrats just build random plantations and the capitalists just build random factories that would honestly be fine and interesting. The player will actually be conscious and able to balance your economy around these decisions. Worst case if they're tanking a good's value you can start exporting it. The dysfunction of the current AI nations shouldn't enter into it. I hope in that case we get more tools to granularly manage trade routes beyond 3 tariff buttons and the binary "no trade route/this trade route will continue expanding until it can't" system lol
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Nov 3, 2022 21:24
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Not sure if this was posted but good info here: Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #64 - Post-Release Plans https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/developer-diary/victoria-3-dev-diary-64-post-release-plans.1553970/ Wiz posted:Hello and welcome to the first of many post-release Victoria 3 dev diaries! The game may now be out at last (weird, isn’t it?) but for us that just means a different phase of work has begun, the work of post-release support. We’ve been quite busy collecting feedback, fixing bugs and making balance changes, and are now working on the free patches that will be following the release, the first of which is a hotfix that should already be with you at the time you read this.
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Nov 3, 2022 21:34
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RabidWeasel posted:It's going to be in the first major patch, they have implemented a fix (it's caused by migration splitting pops into tiny tiny pieces) but I guess they need to test it to make sure nothing explodes  Good to know there's a hotfix rolling in. My iron man Belgium game has a +10k to -200k budget swing.
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Nov 3, 2022 21:38
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Yeah this is a pretty good list. It's good to know wiz at least knows what needs working on. I love the mention of building in other countries. Economic imperialism was a huge thing for the era, often great powers would just lean on local governments to accept their direct economic investment rather than outright invade, or just invade to puppet to open the country up for resource extraction. But that means being able to directly build in your vassals territory!
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Nov 3, 2022 21:39
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Eiba posted:If the aristocrats just build random plantations and the capitalists just build random factories that would honestly be fine and interesting. The player will actually be conscious and able to balance your economy around these decisions. Worst case if they're tanking a good's value you can start exporting it. The dysfunction of the current AI nations shouldn't enter into it. Basically this, I was pretty strongly in favour of moving away from V2's capitalists for a ton of different reasons, but the possibilities presented by AI actors which directly impact on your economy without being the primary driver seem very interesting. UI / UX might be problematic, though.
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Nov 3, 2022 21:48
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I feel like all that system will accomplish is make players gravitate to state capitalism rather than dealing with the headache of babying the AI
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Nov 3, 2022 21:55
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Baronjutter posted:Yeah this is a pretty good list. It's good to know wiz at least knows what needs working on. I love the mention of building in other countries. Economic imperialism was a huge thing for the era, often great powers would just lean on local governments to accept their direct economic investment rather than outright invade, or just invade to puppet to open the country up for resource extraction. But that means being able to directly build in your vassals territory! Yeah building things in other countries was also a thing in Vicky 2 so the absence from 3 is notable and it makes sense as a thing they are planning to add but couldn't get in for release. I am curious about what the incentive to do so will be (aside from "please god develop your oil extraction industry so I can import it") - in Vicky 2 foreign investment was related to sphering countries; your ability to build influence in the country was divided by all the ratio of your own investment compared to that of the other great powers, so if you built up a country's industry it made it a lot harder for other GPs to snatch them out of your sphere. That's not a mechanic in Vicky 3 though - I suppose it could just provide a straight relations boost but that feels a bit too mundane and relations on their own don't actually do a whole lot (even at the highest possible level you still typically have to satisfy a bunch of other factors to get the AI to accept most agreements with you). Being able to extract resources directly into your market could be interesting (even from countries not in your customs union), and would be a good representation of how economic imperialism usually worked, and would also open up the door for interesting diplomatic incidents like a socialist revolution taking over and nationalizing all the foreign-owned industry.
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Nov 3, 2022 22:03
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CharlestheHammer posted:I feel like all that system will accomplish is make players gravitate to state capitalism rather than dealing with the headache of babying the AI if u start balancing around what the most boring people on the planet will do you might as well not add anything interesting bcos someone will post how to avoid it on youtube the next day
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Nov 3, 2022 22:06
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Characters should be able to interact in other countries besides their own, whether for William Walker-style filibustering or internationalist worker's movements Also assassinations feel like they should be in... I still remember the "Dogma of Violence" invention from Vicky 1 lol
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Nov 3, 2022 22:06
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I don't want AI building things, Wiz was 100% right to take that away and abstract it into the development pool. You aren't playing your government, you're playing your country and its economy. I want see more ways to influence other countries though. Like a huge powerful communist france should be putting massive pressure on its neighbours to support their own local communists. The fact that mega communist france can't even lean on its vassals to adopt more leftist policy is a weird oversight.
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Nov 3, 2022 22:07
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Arrath posted:poo poo really starts popping off after 1910, huh? Proletarian German revolt, Fascist American revolt, several Peasant revolts in Russia, Communist South Africa, Radical Egypt (that kicked Egypt-Egypt to Crete lmao) all going on at once. Some of it may be the trade center bug collapsing all the non-player economies worldwide
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Nov 3, 2022 22:09
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CharlestheHammer posted:I feel like all that system will accomplish is make players gravitate to state capitalism rather than dealing with the headache of babying the AI It's not like Vic 2 where you have no control. A couple extra free buildings seems like a good and flavorful bonus for running liberal economies, with interesting gameplay effects. Keep in mind all the laws that alternately give the aristocrats and industrialists access to the investment pool- those will be more interesting and meaningful if they result in different types of free buildings.
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Nov 3, 2022 22:10
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GreyjoyBastard posted:Some of it may be the trade center bug collapsing all the non-player economies worldwide Good point.
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Nov 3, 2022 22:11
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Building factroys in other countries should generate capitalist jobs at home.
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Nov 3, 2022 22:16
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Baronjutter posted:I don't want AI building things, Wiz was 100% right to take that away and abstract it into the development pool. You aren't playing your government, you're playing your country and its economy. I agree but I think having an optional "just build whatever" automation mode could be nice. Like you have auto-expansion already but it's very slow and usually won't be able to consume the full construction potential of a late game economy. I find post-1900 I typically already have most of what I want as far as basic resources goes and I spend a lot of time just doing like "gently caress it just do 10 more steel factories why not", where all I'm really doing is building random stuff to keep my construction industry afloat and create more jobs to fight unemployment. Being able to hand that off to the AI would be helpful. And yeah the interaction between different ideologies seems a bit underdeveloped at the moment. All it really amounts to is a miniscule -5ish acceptance penalty for a diplomatic agreements. Regime change should be a thing that A) actually does something significant and B) is actively pursued by AIs with more "dogmatic" governing ideology.
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Nov 3, 2022 22:18
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Don't know how rare this is, but I've seen the USA go into civil war. Thing is, the North actually seceded from the South, not the other way around. So there is the Free USA (North) and USA (South, who kept the tag).
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Nov 3, 2022 22:39
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The Cheshire Cat posted:I agree but I think having an optional "just build whatever" automation mode could be nice. Like you have auto-expansion already but it's very slow and usually won't be able to consume the full construction potential of a late game economy. I find post-1900 I typically already have most of what I want as far as basic resources goes and I spend a lot of time just doing like "gently caress it just do 10 more steel factories why not", where all I'm really doing is building random stuff to keep my construction industry afloat and create more jobs to fight unemployment. Being able to hand that off to the AI would be helpful. Yeah, auto-expand needs to be able to scale to be much more aggressive. If 10 more steel mills will barely dent local prices, go nuts, build 10 at a time. I get sick of having to manually expand everything in the late game where you have so many thousands of construction capacity it takes 5+ screens to use it all up. I also constantly have trouble with the auto-expand orders getting canceled. I'll go through the building screen and turn auto-expand on for every single building in my country, then check back and find they were mostly all off. Does it turn off if you manually build something??
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Nov 3, 2022 22:43
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Takanago posted:Building factroys in other countries should generate capitalist jobs at home. it'd be a good way to make the petty boug actually meaningful too. I know it used to mean shopkeepers and poo poo, but if some middle manager at exxon ain't the modern definition I dunno what is.
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Nov 3, 2022 23:58
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In my humble IMHO the biggest thing the game needs (besides the obvious fixes like AI not developing their resources or generals constantly going in to battle against overwhelming odds with the same 3 depleted units instead of fielding the many fresh troops that are available at the front) is STOCKPILES. Maybe not for every single resource, I'm not sure if I want to be managing my nation's tactical reserve of fine art, but for things like grain and oil and above all GUNS the current system just doesn't work well. If your army relies heavily on conscripts, as most armies do for most of the game, you are forced to massively overbuild weapons and munitions factories, only for them to lay idle 90% of the time and then be unable to meet demand the other 10%. Let me spend construction time and admin points to build some warehouses and then let me fill them with bullets and rifles.
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Nov 4, 2022 00:18
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