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AnimeIsTrash posted:My favorite thing is dudes who couldn't point to Xinjiang on a map talking about Uighurs. that also DEFINITELY happened. but tis not the thread for it, this is for the holodomor only.
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Nov 3, 2022 04:00
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iCe-CuBe. posted:I'm looking for a new genocide to deny. Any ideas? I was thinking maybe I could say that Manifest Destiny wasn't genocide lol. Vax mandates
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Nov 3, 2022 04:10
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You people need to do better. Even genocide deniers like Applebaum and Stalin would say that the holodomer happened. Not only did the holodomer happen, but it was a genocide and it was bad.
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Nov 3, 2022 06:54
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I personally am sickened and disgusted to be posting on the same website as people who would deny accusations of genocide, whatever I happen to make them about. I really am this upset. My outrage is not just authentic, but convincing, too.
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Nov 3, 2022 10:32
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If people deny the holodomor I will scream and cry and piss myself until they stop.
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Nov 3, 2022 18:48
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iCe-CuBe. posted:I'm looking for a new genocide to deny. Any ideas? I was thinking maybe I could say that Manifest Destiny wasn't genocide lol. It wasn't genocide just a lovely Bungie game
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Nov 3, 2022 19:22
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I'm pretty sure the holodomor happened, it was one of the best episodes of got
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Nov 3, 2022 19:23
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I don't even think anyone died of a famine tbh, I think it's more likely that Lysenko convinced everyone to adopt keto and Ukrainians were just really really strict about it even when they ran out of bacon
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Nov 3, 2022 19:40
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Pentecoastal Elites posted:I'm gonna be totally honest, I would concede on pretty much everything related to ukraine, the holodomor, the uighurs, etc, if we applied these war crime and genocide criteria evenly and implicit or explicit support for america or israel or failure to condemn them at every opportunity likewise resulted in an immediate ban+30 strong agree
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Nov 3, 2022 20:10
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People should talk about how FDR and Stalin conspired to commit global genocide by having the Dust Bowl at the same time as the Holodomor
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Nov 3, 2022 20:41
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KomradeX posted:People should talk about how FDR and Stalin conspired to commit global genocide by having the Dust Bowl at the same time as the Holodomor
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Nov 3, 2022 20:42
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Xaris posted:That's right. That's the double genocide theory. lol
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Nov 3, 2022 20:42
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did anyone ever count how many people died in the dust bowl/depression at large or does that not count as state murder because it didn't happen in a socialist nation
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Nov 3, 2022 20:44
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Xaris posted:That's right. That's the double genocide theory.
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Nov 3, 2022 20:47
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some plague rats posted:The holodomor was an EXTREMELY REAL genocide via famine perpetrated by the Soviet Union, and we here in cspam all agree that it TOOK PLACE. Because it ABSOLUTELY did, so there's not much to discuss, but it's good to have a place to NOT DO SO. thank you. How the gently caress did I get an 18 hour probe?
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Nov 3, 2022 20:48
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the bitcoin of weed posted:did anyone ever count how many people died in the dust bowl/depression at large or does that not count as state murder because it didn't happen in a socialist nation This is basically the thought that lead to Late Victorian Holocausts if you wanna read 400 pages about el niño
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Nov 3, 2022 20:50
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Frosted Flake posted:How the gently caress did I get an 18 hour probe? fluffdaddy
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Nov 3, 2022 20:50
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Zodium posted:fluffdaddy AKA "Young Mouth".
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Nov 3, 2022 20:52
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Lots of holodomor denial in here. How would you feel if 300 hulking beefcake communists lumbered into your fields and ate all the wheat before you could harvest it?
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Nov 3, 2022 21:02
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SorePotato posted:Lots of holodomor denial in here. How would you feel if 300 hulking beefcake communists lumbered into your fields and ate all the wheat before you could harvest it?
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Nov 3, 2022 21:04
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Hatebag posted:This is basically the thought that lead to Late Victorian Holocausts if you wanna read 400 pages about el niño I read a really interesting book about the Germans that posits that there was not one “colonialism” but three colonialisms across the three given examples so that when famine struck in different parts of the German Empire they could respond any which way. The Devil’s Handwriting: Precoloniality and the German Colonial State in Qingdao, Samoa, and Southwest Africa Germany’s overseas colonial empire was relatively short lived, lasting from 1884 to 1918. During this period, dramatically different policies were enacted in the colonies: in Southwest Africa, German troops carried out a brutal slaughter of the Herero people; in Samoa, authorities pursued a paternalistic defense of native culture; in Qingdao, China, policy veered between harsh racism and cultural exchange. Why did the same colonizing power act in such differing ways? In The Devil’s Handwriting, George Steinmetz tackles this question through a brilliant cross-cultural analysis of German colonialism, leading to a new conceptualization of the colonial state and postcolonial theory. Steinmetz uncovers the roots of colonial behavior in precolonial European ethnographies, where the Hereros were portrayed as cruel and inhuman, the Samoans were idealized as “noble savages,” and depictions of Chinese culture were mixed. The effects of status competition among colonial officials, colonizers’ identification with their subjects, and the different strategies of cooperation and resistance offered by the colonized are also scrutinized in this deeply nuanced and ambitious comparative history.
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Nov 3, 2022 21:06
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the bitcoin of weed posted:did anyone ever count how many people died in the dust bowl/depression at large or does that not count as state murder because it didn't happen in a socialist nation the numbers are really weird, excess deaths during the depression are comparatively tiny (especially due to starvation/malnourishment) and American life expectancy consistently went up. idk enough about it to explain why
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Nov 3, 2022 21:19
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The hollowdomes are real and happening all around us. There are hollowdomers in the thread
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Nov 3, 2022 22:45
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Frosted Flake posted:I read a really interesting book about the Germans that posits that there was not one “colonialism” but three colonialisms across the three given examples so that when famine struck in different parts of the German Empire they could respond any which way. Was the reason el niño?
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Nov 3, 2022 22:52
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I love spicy meatball threads, it makes me so merry it makes my belly jiggle like jelly
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Nov 3, 2022 22:54
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Frosted Flake posted:I read a really interesting book about the Germans that posits that there was not one “colonialism” but three colonialisms across the three given examples so that when famine struck in different parts of the German Empire they could respond any which way. I read a wikipedia page or two on the Herero a while back and it was claimed they were engaged in what could be considered a genocide of their own against Khoisan peoples. Does the book cover these claims? Obligatory, this would not excuse the genocide against them.
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Nov 3, 2022 23:16
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Al-Saqr posted:I love spicy meatball threads, it makes me so merry it makes my belly jiggle like jelly Please keep your anti Italian discrimination to yourself, which if you think about it is kind of a second holodomor, in that it is also Stalin's fault for forcing the west to set up gladio which in turn helped cement organized crime in positions of power which is the root cause of a lot of this anti Italian sentiment.
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Nov 3, 2022 23:23
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Hatebag posted:Was the reason el niño? In East Africa it was complicated because prior to European contact there were pastoralists and agriculturalists in a perpetual state of war, and as John Dolan observed, the Europeans invariably sided with the “noble” pastoralists. Much of the interaction between East African tribes revolved around cattle raids, and it got pretty nasty. The coastal people farmed, but were always being attacked either by slave traders from Zanzibar and the Arab world, or by the pastoralists of the interior. Consequently, as there was endless fighting and livestock are moveable where crops aren’t, there was very little farming in East Africa until the 20th century. The food supply came from cattle, and the cattle came from somewhere, and someone else. There was nowhere near enough livestock or grazing land for a stable population anywhere, and so there existed perpetual ongoing wars. Some nearly ritualized, some nearly genocidal, but with the pre-modern technology of Africa and the matchlock jezzails traded from Zanzibar, there were seldom clear winners or losers amongst the tribes. The food supply fluctuated with the fortunes of war. You can think of it somewhat like the Scottish Borderlands, where the border reivers’ plundering made growing oats a fools’ errand and a clan ate by stealing cattle. The Maasai, for example, had it as an article of religious faith that all the cattle on earth had been created for them, and it was their sacred duty to steal them back from other tribes. At first the Europeans were alright with this, as the goings on of the interior didn’t bother them, with the exception of the British who had to intervene on behalf of the Khedive of Egypt now and then. However, after the Berlin Conference of 1885, the areas of influence of the European states in Africa became more established. That meant formal borders, and with them the diplomatic issue of warfare between tribes therein. It wasn’t until the 1890’s that most of the border regions were surveyed and the formal border was very loosely established. For example, Europeans hardly ventured into some of the Maasai country until the 1930’s, but tribes from one European colony raiding into another posed a problem that eventually had to be resolved. The issue was that there had never been enough cattle to go around, East Africa had been in a perpetual state of warfare since the coming of the Bantu, and feast and famine was really an issue of winning or losing wars. When the Europeans stopped the cyclical warfare, this completely disrupted both food supply and economy for groups that had either large populations or small herds at that particular juncture of time. This naturally led to risings and raids, which the Europeans punished harshly, often destroying stockades and driving off cattle, exactly as the art of war was practiced among the people of East Africa, causing starvation among those pastoralist tribes. So not el niño exactly, but you can see how even a small draught coupled with the suspension of raids had a cascading effect. Frosted Flake has issued a correction as of 23:37 on Nov 3, 2022 |
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Nov 3, 2022 23:26
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Weka posted:I read a wikipedia page or two on the Herero a while back and it was claimed they were engaged in what could be considered a genocide of their own against Khoisan peoples. Does the book cover these claims? See above, it’s how things worked in East Africa, and of course the Europeans made it worse, but there was only so much cattle to go around. The problem from the European perspective was that they were now faced with starvation among people who were not under their control and were (as a result of that) engaged in war with them. We can say from the 21st century that they should have sent bags of flour to them anyways, but allowing them to steal cattle from groups that had submitted to colonial authority and were therefore under their protection was unacceptable, they had no agriculture to speak of, being pastoralists, and there was insufficient cattle. How would you go about feeding them? Obviously part of assuming control of territory in the Berlin Conference was assuming responsibility for the people living there, and we all know colonial powers failed that on too many occasions to count, but the second raiding across the newly established international borders, or raiding agricultural people on the coast (who were the first to submit to European authority for a variety of geographical and political reasons) stopped, someone was going to starve. What to do after that I guess comes down to how (and 19-20th c. so why) do you feed people who are actively hostile to you? Frosted Flake has issued a correction as of 23:49 on Nov 3, 2022 |
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Nov 3, 2022 23:27
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iCe-CuBe. posted:I'm looking for a new genocide to deny. Any ideas? I was thinking maybe I could say that Manifest Destiny wasn't genocide lol. Yeah - The Holocaust
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Nov 4, 2022 00:10
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Weka posted:Please keep your anti Italian discrimination to yourself, which if you think about it is kind of a second holodomor, in that it is also Stalin's fault for forcing the west to set up gladio which in turn helped cement organized crime in positions of power which is the root cause of a lot of this anti Italian sentiment. When you think about it the unification of Italy was the intentional and politically motivated destruction of several national identities, making it a septuple-genocide
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Nov 4, 2022 00:47
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Frosted Flake posted:In East Africa it was complicated because prior to European contact there were pastoralists and agriculturalists in a perpetual state of war, and as John Dolan observed, the Europeans invariably sided with the “noble” pastoralists. Much of the interaction between East African tribes revolved around cattle raids, and it got pretty nasty. The coastal people farmed, but were always being attacked either by slave traders from Zanzibar and the Arab world, or by the pastoralists of the interior. Consequently, as there was endless fighting and livestock are moveable where crops aren’t, there was very little farming in East Africa until the 20th century. Ah, so colonialism made a pre-existing way of life more tenuous and exacerbated what would have been a minor problem into something much worse. Interesting!
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Nov 4, 2022 00:50
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Hatebag posted:Ah, so colonialism made a pre-existing way of life more tenuous and exacerbated what would have been a minor problem into something much worse. Interesting! The “way of life” was one of warfare and raiding though, so while of course the imposition of peace and borders brought it to an end, this wasn’t Eden but very much humanity red in tooth and claw. That’s why it’s a difficult problem, the same way slavery was in the African Great Lakes Region. Ending the slave trade caused enormous disruption and upheaval, but it was ending the slave trade.
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Nov 4, 2022 01:04
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BIG-DICK-BUTT-gently caress posted:Yeah - The Holocaust Wow ok that one's real so it's not funny
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Nov 4, 2022 01:57
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SorePotato posted:Wow ok that one's real so it's not funny I sure hope you're implying the holodomor didn't happen! Because it alsmot certainly did!!
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Nov 4, 2022 02:19
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some plague rats posted:I sure hope you're implying the holodomor didn't happen! Because it alsmot certainly did!! Of course I would never claim otherwise. Obviously
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Nov 4, 2022 02:42
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SorePotato posted:Of course I would never claim otherwise. Obviously That's good. The thread consensus, that the holodomor happened, is inviolable and backed by both the admins and the UN
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Nov 4, 2022 05:10
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As far back as I can remember, I always wanted to be a genocide denier
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Nov 4, 2022 22:17
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Homeless Friend posted:As far back as I can remember, I always wanted to be a genocide denier 
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Nov 4, 2022 22:20
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some plague rats posted:That's good. The thread consensus, that the holodomor happened, is inviolable and backed by both the admins and the UN I think I read it in the bible.
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Nov 7, 2022 14:42
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