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ChaseSP posted:it will probably work like VT2 where subclasses share the same level and other poo poo, hopefully trinkets will be sharable across all characters but I'm unsure about it given how you separately create each class now. OTOH, Fatshark is trying very hard not to use the word subclasses or careers and make everything distinct "classes" even though everything in the UI and they way they name the classes (Zealot: Preacher, Ogryn:Skullbreaker, etc) points to it absolutely being exactly the same setup as V2 with careers. Even their "clarifying" news post didn't really make it more obvious, because it really does just sound like subclasses/careers, unless theyre planning on either making new models for every "class"; or reusing models and just calling it a class even though its just an Ogryn career any way you slice it  Closed beta didnt really make it more clear which direction they're really going for when they say they'll be releasing new "classes", but since they promised a new "class" every quarter I think "careers by any other name" is probably the safest bet.
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Nov 3, 2022 01:24
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That post is exactly what set off alarm bells in my head. The only reason to try so hard to make people think the exact same system is different is if the experience is going to less consumer friendly, whether it's monetization (1/3rd as many free subclasses on release) or lack of shared progression (grind for the metrics god!) or both. Otherwise they would use the same terms for the same system.
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Nov 3, 2022 01:45
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My argument for subclasses - Think of how much voice acting goes into one career especially now that there's 3 choices per class. Not just the objective calls, but like the replies and the interpersonal barks. Now imagine  trying to break out a new class with new voice lines (and everone else having voice barks for them) once a quarter with new assets and such and not have it be completely and utterly loving broken or dead on arrival. The only way I can make it work in my head is if they do the subclasses. Keep most of the assets the same, add new armor pieces and a couple weapons and talent sets, same voicework and boom, done. Add to it that it's already going to be deeply annoying that the way the character system is currently means that you can't pass all the shared weapons / crafting bits around (and trinkets, if those turn out to be a thing in this game, since we still don't know one way or another)
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Nov 3, 2022 01:56
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It seems pretty clear that the heroes:careers and archetypes:classes setup is gonna be more or less identical mechanically, it's really only that news post that makes it weird. Insisting that the classes have more going on than VT2 careers seems... wrong? It's just the one screen of feats. All the visual and narrative customization stuff happens on the character/archetype level, and all the weapons can be used by anyone (except for a few that are archetype specific.) So yeah probably just preemptive marketing poo poo because they're gonna charge for classes
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Nov 3, 2022 02:24
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Abroham Lincoln posted:It seems pretty clear that the heroes:careers and archetypes:classes setup is gonna be more or less identical mechanically, it's really only that news post that makes it weird. I will say the talents we have on display are a lot more dynamic and interesting than vt2. No more choice of +7% hero power vs stagger power, or the temp healing thing at the first rank. Now by the time you hit level 10 or so you can have two of a single class in a team that plays way differently (hi, grenadier sharpshooter). I'm okay that like 80% of the weapons are largely shared between classes because of all the variety you've got in the talents.
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Nov 3, 2022 05:56
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TURBO-HECKN'-HONK'N BONK
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Nov 3, 2022 06:05
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Grognan posted:TURBO-HECKN'-HONK'N BONK 
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Nov 3, 2022 06:36
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Corbeau posted:Search your feelings. What do you think makes more sense from the perspective of a self-described "live service game?" From what we saw in the beta we might very well not even have shared progression between subclasses, let alone account-wide. It's this. They're gonna nickle and dime their players to make as much cash as they can. I wonder how much of a cut GW get and if they pushed for it.
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Nov 3, 2022 13:51
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Their DLC/monetization has been pretty good for VT/VT2. I'm not sure that level of pessimism is justified.
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Nov 3, 2022 15:02
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Demiurge4 posted:It's this. They're gonna nickle and dime their players to make as much cash as they can. I wonder how much of a cut GW get and if they pushed for it. If anyone is pushing for it, it's probably Tencent
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Nov 3, 2022 15:07
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It's ok to be optimistic about the monetization but I think it's also okay and "justified" to be pessimistic. Capitalist hellscape and all. I don't know why this specifically would be the game where a corporation says "let's not bleed them as effectively as we can"
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Nov 3, 2022 15:11
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I guess I'm just saying that there are some devs who have shown they can thread that needle, and IMO, Fatshark is one of them. I hadn't heard that Tencent had bought 1/3 of the company. That's definitely cause for concern.
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Nov 3, 2022 15:42
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I don't mind their DLC pricing but I was not onboard for paying $8 for a single career's hat and suit.
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Nov 3, 2022 15:47
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I thought that was a good example of them doing it right. They even split out the class and the cosmetics into two different purchases. $4 for a new class, especially with the amount of work that goes into it seemed very reasonable to me. And if you wanted to throw them a few more bucks you could. I liked how you could get cool looking skins without paying, plus even the base skins look great. Again, just my opinion, etc.
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Nov 3, 2022 16:05
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Yeah, it was pretty good if you didn't care about cosmetics, which I do not
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Nov 3, 2022 16:07
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Internet Explorer posted:I thought that was a good example of them doing it right. They even split out the class and the cosmetics into two different purchases. $4 for a new class, especially with the amount of work that goes into it seemed very reasonable to me. And if you wanted to throw them a few more bucks you could. I liked how you could get cool looking skins without paying, plus even the base skins look great. I meant the actual premium hats, not the ones from DLC careers. Things like Merc's $3 hats and $7 shirts  I don't mind paid cosmetics as such but thats a lot of money for one career's one item, when a lot of the non-premium other items are all the same model with minor masks and recolors applied but not much else. Fishstick fucked around with this message at 16:16 on Nov 3, 2022 |
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Nov 3, 2022 16:14
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Internet Explorer posted:I guess I'm just saying that there are some devs who have shown they can thread that needle I agree but every new product is a new opportunity for revenue pressure to win out and start hurting the consumer. Cautious optimism is all I can muster when we've seen so many good devs succumb to the realities of the market. That optimism is even harder to maintain when they are slippery about confirming things.
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Nov 3, 2022 16:39
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All good points. Fingers crossed I guess. 
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Nov 3, 2022 16:53
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I didn't know that ten cent owns a stake in Fatshark now and I'm like 50% more concerned, given their track record of aggressive monetization.
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Nov 3, 2022 17:09
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All the changes in comparison to VT2 do seem to be quite geared towards a more MTX-y thing, but since the game isn't exactly free to begin with, here's hoping the MTX will just be closer to what they've had before. Of course, there's people who were outraged that you'd have to give Fatshark real extra money if you wanted to put a teacup pig with a shapely bum on Salty's head, but I never really saw eye-to-eye with those folks.
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Nov 3, 2022 17:09
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I mean the good news is people liked the gameplay in the CBT so it looks like the initial base game purchase will satisfy fans of VT. I know I'm gonna put in dozens, potentially hundreds of hours. I'll be happy with a fun base game if I decide to skip the microtransactions. Hopefully they don't introduce pain points as a way to drive spending. No way to tell. But we're gonna have fun with this game for sure!
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Nov 3, 2022 17:15
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Dlc is also the reason why I'm buying this on steam, rather than just playing on gamepass. Im definitely not gonna be buying game pass ultimate and I don't want to have to restart all over later switching from gamepass to steam. If you just wanna play the base game wheb it comes out and then drop the game afterwards, then game pass seems like a good option
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Nov 3, 2022 17:20
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Fishstick posted:I don't mind their DLC pricing but I was not onboard for paying $8 for a single career's hat and suit. DLC pricing was fine in VT2, but it was a grave sin to lock the hardest difficulty level behind a DLC purchase, forever dooming it to low population and player anger.
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Nov 3, 2022 17:24
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If they make me pay for death korps cosmetics ... I will pay it
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Nov 3, 2022 17:25
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My main concern at the moment is that we had 15 classes at launch in VT2, and just 5 now; if they start charging for new classes right after these launch ones, I think it's gonna set a bad precedent.
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Nov 3, 2022 17:32
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huh, seems pertinent https://store.steampowered.com/app/552500/Warhammer_Vermintide_2/
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Nov 3, 2022 18:17
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Edmond Dantes posted:My main concern at the moment is that we had 15 classes at launch in VT2, and just 5 now; if they start charging for new classes right after these launch ones, I think it's gonna set a bad precedent. This is the concern. I’ve never worried about whalehunt cosmetics — charge $500 for a hat for all I care, I will never buy any cosmetic ever. But imagine if VT2’s initial alternate careers cost even $4 each. That’d be $40 right out of the box, or a doubling of the base game’s price.
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Nov 3, 2022 18:27
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Magitek posted:This is the concern. I’ve never worried about whalehunt cosmetics — charge $500 for a hat for all I care, I will never buy any cosmetic ever. But imagine if VT2’s initial alternate careers cost even $4 each. That’d be $40 right out of the box, or a doubling of the base game’s price. Yeah, this is my definite singular concern about the whole deal, not enough careers on launch and included in the base purchase, and given poo poo like Sister of the Thorn happened, increasingly insane power creep pay to win careers at  a pop
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Nov 3, 2022 18:41
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Edmond Dantes posted:My main concern at the moment is that we had 15 classes at launch in VT2, and just 5 now; if they start charging for new classes right after these launch ones, I think it's gonna set a bad precedent. You mean 4? I'm sure the game will be fun but it seems like a step backwards from a lot of the things I liked about Vermintide like the characters and campaign. Maybe this system means it's easier to make subclasses or some other benefit I'm not seeing. The subclasses don't look like they're any deeper than the careers in VT2 either but I guess we'll see in a few weeks.
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Nov 3, 2022 18:46
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Vermintide 2 being free on Steam until the 7th is great, I put hundreds of hours into that game. Anyone who hasn't played should pick it up.
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Nov 4, 2022 01:13
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looks like the 17th is the new beta test phase if you preordered
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Nov 4, 2022 06:08
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strange feelings re Daisy posted:Vermintide 2 being free on Steam until the 7th is great, I put hundreds of hours into that game. Anyone who hasn't played should pick it up. I'm reinstalling, gonna play Vermintide a bit this month on the Co-Op Goons discord, I invite you all to come play Vermintide out in a last hurrah.
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Nov 4, 2022 12:12
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Grognan posted:looks like the 17th is the new beta test phase if you preordered Not really new. It's been announced for almost two weeks, and it's the early access for Steam purchases.
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Nov 4, 2022 14:43
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Debating snagging this on steam instead of playing free on gamepass since it will eventually leave and all my progress will disappear into the ether, any good preorder deals exist yet?
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Nov 4, 2022 15:10
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Sgt. Cosgrove posted:Debating snagging this on steam instead of playing free on gamepass since it will eventually leave and all my progress will disappear into the ether, any good preorder deals exist yet? You get two weeks of play before you would on game pass and you'd end up not having access to eventual DLC if you use gamepass to play.
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Nov 4, 2022 20:16
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apostateCourier posted:You get two weeks of play before you would on game pass and you'd end up not having access to eventual DLC if you use gamepass to play. That last part is wrong. You can 100% purchase DLC for Gamepass games without owning the game. The real question would be the duration of it being on Gamepass and whether that lines up with DLC in the future... but it'll be $20 in 6 months like everythng else anyways.
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Nov 4, 2022 20:55
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Psyker posted:That last part is wrong. Fair enough, my bad
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Nov 5, 2022 06:27
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Psyker posted:That last part is wrong. If they don’t implement crossplay between Gamepass and Steam you’re probably gonna be left high and dry for players come the time it rotates off Gamepass, just something to keep in mind.
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Nov 5, 2022 15:56
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Grognan posted:TURBO-HECKN'-HONK'N BONK Can I name my Ogryn this if I agree to pay you royalties?
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Nov 5, 2022 17:47
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feel free, that phrase runs through my head every time I bowl over a squad of shooters with a charge.
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Nov 5, 2022 18:11
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