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Captain Hygiene posted:That's a weird one because, as far as I can tell, tons of people (me included) grew up with it just being a verb to use without having a clue that there was any particular etymology or context to even worry about. Fortunately, I do think there's been a lot more awareness of that over the years, and I don't remember the last time I heard it come up outside of discussions why it and its related ethnic term are hateful. I attribute it to the internet still being in its infancy. If you didn't live in Europe (um, did you?) then you pretty much never talked to Europeans who would know the whole history of Roma persecution. Or at least it wasn't what they would lead with. "Hey just so you know, we used to be super racist too!" Basically there was slavery and the Holocaust, and we vaguely figured there must have been some other racism at some distant point in history (and no other racism happened in WW2, no siree!) Torquemada posted:It would bug a lot of people The correct joke is "that bugs me in a way that I cannot put into words"
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Nov 2, 2022 13:42
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Sir Lemming posted:I attribute it to the internet still being in its infancy. If you didn't live in Europe (um, did you?) then you pretty much never talked to Europeans who would know the whole history of Roma persecution. Or at least it wasn't what they would lead with. "Hey just so you know, we used to be super racist too!" Basically there was slavery and the Holocaust, and we vaguely figured there must have been some other racism at some distant point in history (and no other racism happened in WW2, no siree!) Yep, it was growing up in the US before ubiquitous internet, and I found out through online discussions much later on.
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Nov 2, 2022 15:25
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MariusLecter posted:I hate this post. 
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Nov 2, 2022 18:36
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Sir Lemming posted:I attribute it to the internet still being in its infancy. If you didn't live in Europe (um, did you?) then you pretty much never talked to Europeans who would know the whole history of Roma persecution. Or at least it wasn't what they would lead with. "Hey just so you know, we used to be super racist too!" Basically there was slavery and the Holocaust, and we vaguely figured there must have been some other racism at some distant point in history (and no other racism happened in WW2, no siree!) Unfortunately it's not a history thing, Europe is to this day extremely extremely racist towards Roma people.
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Nov 3, 2022 19:30
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Organza Quiz posted:Unfortunately it's not a history thing, Europe is to this day extremely extremely racist towards Roma people. To paraphrase Mitch Hedberg, we used to be super racist. We still are, but we used to be, too.
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Nov 3, 2022 20:12
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JacquelineDempsey posted:Yeah, growing up in my part of 1970's/80's US, the word meant "people from Somewhere in Europe that travel around in wagons, usually to carnivals, dressed like hippies/peasants. There's an old woman who will tell your fortune and/or put a curse on you. She's got heavy makeup, a beauty mark, and big gold hoop earrings." lol, I had the same experience with random old hippie clothing in the same time frame for cheap/free Halloween costumes. Also it was a common expression of my mom’s when she was only moderately pissed off that she was gonna sell me to the gypsies. I took it literally and just assumed gypsy was a generic term until fairly recently. : (
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Nov 4, 2022 02:58
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Guadalcanal isn't a canal. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guadalcanal
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Nov 4, 2022 19:12
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I was very disappointed when I first listened to Dragula and it wasn't about Dracula in drag.
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Nov 5, 2022 02:20
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Is there a word for what I interpret as a "gypsy" (traveling hippies who generally live on the road but for set up camp in the forest and they do performance stuff like fortune telling, juggling, etc. but also who are kind of goblinlike in attitude and expression, and yes will buy misbehaved children) that isn't tied to racism? I don't think what I think of as a gypsy as being at all what the slur is tied to. It's rather like hearing that Doug is actually a super racist term and like can't we just rename it Skeeter's Pal and be alright with it? gently caress Skeeter sounds real sketchy to my ears now too
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Nov 5, 2022 02:39
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I'd call them a wanderer, a wayfarer, even a wandering bard if they're musical enough. But it does remove a layer of Romance huh?
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Nov 5, 2022 02:49
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YggiDee posted:I was very disappointed when I first listened to Dragula and it wasn't about Dracula in drag.  
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Nov 5, 2022 02:50
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The British use Traveller as they have two distinct and unrelated groups of Travelers. The Romani and Irish Travellers (Mincéirí). There's also New Age Travellers. Basically hippies/crusties. But that's a different can of worms. Which might be a little generic but preferable to racial slurs.
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Nov 5, 2022 02:51
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FreudianSlippers posted:The British use Traveller as they have two distinct and unrelated groups of Travelers. The Romani and Irish Travellers (Mincéirí). I recently spotted a 30-something hippie on social media who describes herself as an "eternal gypsy" and I was a bit taken aback. Also she's SE Asian and she had the word 'Celestial' in her username so I guess maybe she's just a fan of old timey racisms????  Discussions on race relations here in Australia are staggeringly behind the times, we still have to regularly hash over the question of "Is blackface offensive??" every few years when some local celebrity blacks up for a costume party and is shocked and bewildered when they get dragged for it
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Nov 5, 2022 03:14
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Foxfire_ posted:It's not even about Dragula, that car has no back seat for slamming in. It's about the Munster Koach Fired for that blunder, &c.
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Nov 5, 2022 03:16
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That's why White Zombie broke up, Rob brought that song out and Sean and J called him a poser. Tempesta kept his mouth shut, it's why he got the gig working with Rob later.
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Nov 5, 2022 03:23
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credburn posted:Is there a word for what I interpret as a "gypsy" (traveling hippies who generally live on the road but for set up camp in the forest and they do performance stuff like fortune telling, juggling, etc. but also who are kind of goblinlike in attitude and expression, and yes will buy misbehaved children) that isn't tied to racism? I don't think what I think of as a gypsy as being at all what the slur is tied to. FreudianSlippers posted:The British use Traveller as they have two distinct and unrelated groups of Travelers. The Romani and Irish Travellers (Mincéirí). Was gonna post this yesterday but felt cringe. Was on a discord voice channel when I mentioned the movie SNATCH and an English guy wouldn't shut up about TRAVELING IRISHMEN and a whole bunch of gypsy stereotypes. Got to the point of everyone telling him to shut up and sending DMs apologizing about it to us all. All I said was it was a good movie and asking how realistic is it to roma in England. Wasn't expecting someone who actually knew and held every stereotype like that.
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Nov 5, 2022 04:49
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Irish Travellers are the descendants of semi-nomadic Gaelic peoples displaced by the Plantation of Ulster and/or the Cromwellian invasion of Ireland during the 1600s. Romani arrived to Europe from India (or Central Asia) several hundred years earlier. FreudianSlippers has a new favorite as of 05:01 on Nov 5, 2022 |
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Nov 5, 2022 04:59
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:I recently spotted a 30-something hippie on social media who describes herself as an "eternal gypsy" and I was a bit taken aback. Also she's SE Asian and she had the word 'Celestial' in her username so I guess maybe she's just a fan of old timey racisms???? Well, sure. We don't have the same history of importing enslaved African people and then dressing up as them for comedy shows. In that context it's obviously, blindingly offensive and nobody would do it unless they were trying to make a deliberate reference to the minstrel shows, in the USA. (Not to say Australia doesn't have a stunningly horrible continuing legacy of institutional racism. This country sucks). Absent (and presumably being unaware of) that context, I totally get why people would do it. I must admit that I actually don't completely grasp why it's still offensive outside that context, but I know it's still very lovely and to not do it.
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Nov 5, 2022 05:06
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FreudianSlippers posted:Irish Travellers are the descendants of semi-nomadic Gaelic peoples displaced by the Plantation of Ulster and/or the Cromwellian invasion of Ireland during the 1600s. Romani arrived to Europe from India (or Central Asia) several hundred years earlier. Interesting!
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Nov 5, 2022 05:09
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Hyperlynx posted:Well, sure. We don't have the same history of importing enslaved African people and then dressing up as them for comedy shows. In that context it's obviously, blindingly offensive and nobody would do it unless they were trying to make a deliberate reference to the minstrel shows, in the USA. (Not to say Australia doesn't have a stunningly horrible continuing legacy of institutional racism. This country sucks). Australia actually has a long long history of black & white minstrel shows which were super popular here from the early 19th century into the 20th century where white folk painted their face black and sang songs about picking cotton on slave plantations and did the usual banter in the silly voices but apart from the continuing popularity of Golliwogs there's almost zero sign of all that these days. Everyone just forgot about it. This photo was taken in my neighbourhood back in 1935 
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Nov 5, 2022 05:32
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:Australia actually has a long long history of black & white minstrel shows which were super popular here from the early 19th century into the 20th century where white folk painted their face black and sang songs about picking cotton on slave plantations and did the usual banter in the silly voices but apart from the continuing popularity of Golliwogs there's almost zero sign of all that these days. Everyone just forgot about it. Holy poo poo! Well, drat. Australia didn't grow cotton or enslave people (to the best of my knowledge) but yeah, holy poo poo. Importing and participating in foreign "heinous racism" shows is pretty vile.
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Nov 5, 2022 05:53
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Hyperlynx posted:Holy poo poo! Lmao
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Nov 5, 2022 05:55
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Gaius Marius posted:Lmao gently caress off
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Nov 5, 2022 06:09
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Hyperlynx posted:Holy poo poo! We tried real hard to grow cotton here in the 1860s when the US market was disrupted by their civil war but the conditions weren't right for it. We've also got a long long history of enslaving the indigenous peoples, transporting them thousands of miles away from their homes and forcing them to work, and we also coerced nearby islanders onto ships so they could be brought here to be forced to harvest our crops but they usually paid them a tiny tiny amount of money and sent them back to their island homes at the end of the season so they called that blackbirding and tried to argue it wasn't actually slavery. Just two years ago we had PM Scott Morrison claim that we never had slavery in Australia and he quickly had to retract that and issue an apology but mostly dodged the issue, saying that he didn't want to get into the “history wars”. We don't just import racism, we also import "critical race theory" anti-'woke' politics. 
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Nov 5, 2022 06:12
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Hyperlynx posted:Holy poo poo! Your posts are the most willfully ignorant racist poo poo I've seen on the forums in a long time, congratulations.
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Nov 5, 2022 08:23
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credburn posted:Is there a word for what I interpret as a "gypsy" (traveling hippies who generally live on the road but for set up camp in the forest and they do performance stuff like fortune telling, juggling, etc. but also who are kind of goblinlike in attitude and expression, and yes will buy misbehaved children) that isn't tied to racism? I don't think what I think of as a gypsy as being at all what the slur is tied to. You can't just say "I would like to invoke the racial stereotype exactly but have it not be hosed up". I mean, think about what you're asking for here. A word to describe a society of amoral mystical child-slaving vagabonds that isn't racist. Would you also like a race-neutral word for people who pick cotton all day and love watermelon?
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Nov 5, 2022 09:12
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Honestly I don't blame anyone for not being aware of these aspects of Australian history. Like I said earlier, discussions on race relations and the history of race relations here are staggeringly behind the times because the media and even the education system almost never acknowledges a lot of it. I would never have known the history of black and white minstrelsy performances here in Australia except years ago I heard someone claim we didn't have a history of it and on a whim I went and looked up a whole lot of 1800s newspapers online and researched it myself.
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Nov 5, 2022 09:14
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There's porn on twitter. Wtf
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Nov 5, 2022 09:38
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i remember first time i met an australian, back in i think 03. very surfer dude, he was super nice to me, but he kept saying "abbos" and i was like this feels racist to me, i dont know very much but i dont like the way you say that & i mentioned that, and he shut down like "okay  "then a year later i met another ozzie and he is cool and we still talk sometimes
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Nov 5, 2022 09:43
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run on sentience posted:Your posts are the most willfully ignorant racist poo poo I've seen on the forums in a long time, congratulations. Dude, if Australia had slavery, I didn't know. I did know this country did (and does) have a lot of heinous, horrendous poo poo going on, just not that particular one. They did teach us about the White Australia policy and the Stolen Generations at school, and there's continued awareness of Indigenous deaths in police custody. I had always understood blackface to be a very specific American history thing and nothing more. When I looked up the Coburg minstrel show I got articles saying it is a very specific American history thing, that we also imported and ran with. That is bad and wrong. I even said as much! How is that "willfully ignorant racist poo poo"? e: Snowglobe of Doom posted:We tried real hard to grow cotton here in the 1860s when the US market was disrupted by their civil war but the conditions weren't right for it. We've also got a long long history of enslaving the indigenous peoples, transporting them thousands of miles away from their homes and forcing them to work, and we also coerced nearby islanders onto ships so they could be brought here to be forced to harvest our crops but they usually paid them a tiny tiny amount of money and sent them back to their island homes at the end of the season so they called that blackbirding and tried to argue it wasn't actually slavery. drat. That's good to know, thank you. Hyperlynx has a new favorite as of 10:58 on Nov 5, 2022 |
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Nov 5, 2022 10:55
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Hyperlynx posted:drat. That's good to know, thank you. Note also that this isn't all ancient news, there was a settlement on a court case just three years ago where the Queensland government agreed to pay $190 million in reparations for a government scheme where indigenous peoples were forcefully put to work between 1939 and 1972 and were supposed to have been paid wages but oops! they just plumb forgot to give them the money. It was the 5th biggest class action lawsuit in Australian history. https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/jul/09/indigenous-workers-receive-190m-stolen-wages-settlement-from-queensland-government
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Nov 5, 2022 11:08
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:Note also that this isn't all ancient news, there was a settlement on a court case just three years ago where the Queensland government agreed to pay $190 million in reparations for a government scheme where indigenous peoples were forcefully put to work between 1939 and 1972 and were supposed to have been paid wages but oops! they just plumb forgot to give them the money. It was the 5th biggest class action lawsuit in Australian history. Bloody hell. Appreciated. Thank you.
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Nov 5, 2022 11:10
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"my country never had slavery" - an incorrect statement pretty much anywhere on the loving planet
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Nov 5, 2022 11:11
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DontMockMySmock posted:"my country never had slavery" - an incorrect statement pretty much anywhere on the loving planet Australia has a current problem with slavery where SE Asian folk are lured into the country with promises of good paying working and bridging visas but then the slavers steal their passports and force them into working unpaid in sweatshops or sex work
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Nov 5, 2022 11:34
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Baronjutter posted:There's porn on twitter. Wtf Yeah I heard this a few days ago too and was honestly very surprised. Like apparently they have no rule against it? But I kind of figured any place on the internet that doesn't intentionally crack down on porn would just automatically be full of it. I guess it kind of makes sense, though, that if you don't seek out and follow any of those accounts, and they also don't get monetized and "suggested" to you, you'll just never see it.
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Nov 5, 2022 11:51
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DontMockMySmock posted:"my country never had slavery" - an incorrect statement pretty much anywhere on the loving planet As it turns out :/ In any event, what I actually said was that I didn't know why blackface is offensive outside of the USA, lacking context of minstrel shows. That's all. I didn't say it wasn't offensive, or that it should be done (I literally said the exact opposite!), I said I understood why people might do it. I guess that indeed makes me wilfully ignorant, because I could go look it up, but I don't see how it makes me racist. Hyperlynx has a new favorite as of 12:10 on Nov 5, 2022 |
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Nov 5, 2022 12:03
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If you don't get that blackface is inherently offensive to black people regardless of your country's rich historical traditions, then you are probably dumb as a brick
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Nov 5, 2022 12:16
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credburn posted:It's rather like hearing that Doug is actually a super racist term and like can't we just rename it Skeeter's Pal and be alright with it? For the reboot of MST3k they renamed the female robot GPC, also had a voice actress voice her unlike in the earlier seasons.
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Nov 5, 2022 14:23
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:This photo was taken in my neighbourhood back in 1935 I'm the inexplicable Mickey Mouse tambourine. Although I guess ol' Walt WAS a loving racist so maybe it makes sense. poo poo. Can I be the triangle instead?
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Nov 5, 2022 15:07
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franco posted:Can I be the triangle instead? Note also the two guys immediately behind the triangle guy are holding bones, a standard minstrel act instrument. Troupes usually featured end men, with Mr Tambo on one end and and Mr Bones on the other. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXK0UXaSaZg Snowglobe of Doom has a new favorite as of 15:39 on Nov 5, 2022 |
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Nov 5, 2022 15:35
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