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Jarvisi
Apr 17, 2001

Green is still best.
Is there a reason half the encounter builders don't have hazards in them?

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Chevy Slyme
May 2, 2004

We're Gonna Run.

We're Gonna Crawl.

Kick Down Every Wall.

clusterfuck posted:

Would be nice but it's the other way around, Demoralize into Bon Mot, no?

Bon Mot will reduce Perception checks and Will saves, but that won't help a Demoralize attempt, as Demoralize is an Intimidation check against target Will DC.

If you instead first successfully Demoralize the Frightened condition will reduce the targets DCs, so the Bon Mot Diplomacy roll will target a reduced Will DC.

I mean…. That’s a reading of the rules, I guess.

But will DC’s are derived from will saves, inclusive of penalties. https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=328

quote:

Will saving throws measure how well you can resist attacks to your mind and spirit. They use your Wisdom modifier and are calculated as shown in the formula below.
Will save result = d20 roll + Wisdom modifier + proficiency bonus + other bonuses + penalties

Sometimes you'll need to know your DC for a given saving throw. The DC for a saving throw is 10 + the total modifier for that saving throw.

The total modifier includes any penalties. Bon Mot applies a penalty to the saving throw, which in turn reduces the DC.

It is an extremely strong and cool and good combo.

sugar free jazz
Mar 5, 2008

Syrinxx posted:

I would like to play in this Adventure Path

fist of the purp phoenix, book 1: madness on reefer island

Froghammer
Sep 8, 2012

Khajit has wares
if you have coin
So if I'm an occult caster (like, say, a Bard) who takes Psychic Dedication at 2 and Basic Thoughtform at 4 to get Psi Burst, it would key off my Psychic class DC and not my Bard class DC, correct?

Chevy Slyme
May 2, 2004

We're Gonna Run.

We're Gonna Crawl.

Kick Down Every Wall.

Froghammer posted:

So if I'm an occult caster (like, say, a Bard) who takes Psychic Dedication at 2 and Basic Thoughtform at 4 to get Psi Burst, it would key off my Psychic class DC and not my Bard class DC, correct?

Spells don’t key off your class DC, they key specifically off of your DC in the relevant spellcasting tradition, which, in the case of a Bard/Psychic is occult for both, so you’ll use whatever the Bard’s proficiency is.

(Class DC’s don’t get T/E/M/L unless specifically noted, as with the Alchemist)

Toshimo
Aug 23, 2012

He's outta line...

But he's right!

Froghammer posted:

So if I'm an occult caster (like, say, a Bard) who takes Psychic Dedication at 2 and Basic Thoughtform at 4 to get Psi Burst, it would key off my Psychic class DC and not my Bard class DC, correct?



Chevy Slyme posted:

Spells don’t key off your class DC, they key specifically off of your DC in the relevant spellcasting tradition, which, in the case of a Bard/Psychic is occult for both, so you’ll use whatever the Bard’s proficiency is.

(Class DC’s don’t get T/E/M/L unless specifically noted, as with the Alchemist)

Psychic feats are a little broken and honestly need an errata to the class specifying to use your Occult Spell DC for all of them. So, I can see why it would be confusing.

However, neither psychics not bards (natively or multiclass) have Class DCs. They only have spell DCs, which is what you should use in this case, despite Psi Burst not being a spell.

HOWEVER!!!

Psi Burst is not usable from Psychic multiclass because it is a Psyche ability requiring you to Unleash Psyche which only base Psychics, not multiclass, have access to.

Harold Fjord
Jan 3, 2004
Psi butst is available as a feat through the basic thoughtform dedication feat, but can't be used

Terrible :(

Harold Fjord fucked around with this message at 18:46 on Oct 22, 2022

Chevy Slyme
May 2, 2004

We're Gonna Run.

We're Gonna Crawl.

Kick Down Every Wall.

Froghammer
Sep 8, 2012

Khajit has wares
if you have coin

CottonWolf
Jul 20, 2012

Good ideas generator

The Dwarves are coming.

https://paizo.com/products/btq02e6p?Pathfinder-Lost-Omens-Highhelm

Syrinxx
Mar 28, 2002

Death is whimsical today

Very hype for Dwarf stuff. Rings of Power rekindled my love for those gruff little folk, especially Disa who owns

moths
Aug 25, 2004

I would also still appreciate some danger.



Is there a single Google map of where organized play takes place?

I went to the site and it has four separate organizational pages, checked half of them and did an infomercial There's got to be a better way head-shake.

Froghammer
Sep 8, 2012

Khajit has wares
if you have coin
Duergar Dwarf Heritage you cowards

Chevy Slyme
May 2, 2004

We're Gonna Run.

We're Gonna Crawl.

Kick Down Every Wall.

Saw this described as “New York City for Dwarves” and yes hello I am interested

sugar free jazz
Mar 5, 2008

eeeyyy oooh I’m smithin here let’s go rocks baby love da rocks

Syrinxx
Mar 28, 2002

Death is whimsical today

Another PF2e / Starfinder humble bundle is up - a great deal on a hodgepodge of stuff and you can get a physical Beginner Box to give as an xmas gift

https://www.humblebundle.com/books/give-gift-pathfinder-starfinder-paizo-books

MadDogMike
Apr 9, 2008

Cute but fanged

Chevy Slyme posted:

The total modifier includes any penalties. Bon Mot applies a penalty to the saving throw, which in turn reduces the DC.

It is an extremely strong and cool and good combo.

For some reason the idea of Bon Mot then Demoralize makes me think of how you can greet random NPCs in Red Dead Redemption 2 then insult them, even though that's not quite what that combo does.

Syrinxx posted:

Another PF2e / Starfinder humble bundle is up - a great deal on a hodgepodge of stuff and you can get a physical Beginner Box to give as an xmas gift

https://www.humblebundle.com/books/give-gift-pathfinder-starfinder-paizo-books

Ooh, thanks for the info, I have taken advantage.

clusterfuck
Feb 6, 2004


Zarick posted:

I would think that your Will DC is also reduced when your Will save is, since the number for your Will save bonus is what drives the DC. While it doesn't explicitly state this...

Chevy Slyme posted:


The total modifier includes any penalties. Bon Mot applies a penalty to the saving throw, which in turn reduces the DC.

It is an extremely strong and cool and good combo.

... Ah... thanks for pointing that out! I hadn't paid attention to how Will DC's are derived and missed this. It's really good news for the bard and swashbuckler in our party.

Weird Uncle Dave
Sep 2, 2003

I could do this all day.

Buglord

moths posted:

Is there a single Google map of where organized play takes place?

I went to the site and it has four separate organizational pages, checked half of them and did an infomercial There's got to be a better way head-shake.

There is not. Few pages back I asked a similar question, and the consensus is “Paizo are bad at the internet.”

bewilderment
Nov 22, 2007
man what



impossiboobs
Oct 2, 2006


Are alchemists bourgeois?

GetDunked
Dec 16, 2011

respectfully
They're the means of production

sugar free jazz
Mar 5, 2008

depends on their relation to the ownership of the means of production within a capitalist system. typically they would not be bourgeoisie though due to them actually doing the labor to produce things

impossiboobs
Oct 2, 2006

Sorry, should have asked in picture form.

CottonWolf
Jul 20, 2012

Good ideas generator

First impressions of Impossible Lands. Nearly as good as Mwangi, but it suffers from having less of a coherent theme overall, and feels like 4 mini-setting guides (Nex, Mana Wastes, Geb and Jalmaray) rather than one cohesive one like Mwangi. That impression might change after giving it a more thorough read though.

Blockhouse
Sep 7, 2014

You Win!

CottonWolf posted:

First impressions of Impossible Lands. Nearly as good as Mwangi, but it suffers from having less of a coherent theme overall, and feels like 4 mini-setting guides (Nex, Mana Wastes, Geb and Jalmaray) rather than one cohesive one like Mwangi. That impression might change after giving it a more thorough read though.

Feel like that's an inherent problem due to Mwangi generally having real world cultural basis all around while most of Impossible Lands is stuff that doesn't map nearly as well.

sugar free jazz
Mar 5, 2008

what exactly is happening in this stat block


https://2e.aonprd.com/Monsters.aspx?ID=827

does the tick swarm really use Cling and deal 1d6 damage to itself every time it uses a damaging action

does it only use Cling once a turn when it has a reaction and then it just.....doesn't have a reaction anymore?


I'm very confused

Hunter Noventa
Apr 21, 2010

sugar free jazz posted:

what exactly is happening in this stat block


https://2e.aonprd.com/Monsters.aspx?ID=827

does the tick swarm really use Cling and deal 1d6 damage to itself every time it uses a damaging action

does it only use Cling once a turn when it has a reaction and then it just.....doesn't have a reaction anymore?


I'm very confused

I think the idea is that several ticks cling to the creature as it moves away, leaving the swarm with the target and thus weakening the overall swarm.

Harold Fjord
Jan 3, 2004

sugar free jazz posted:

what exactly is happening in this stat block


https://2e.aonprd.com/Monsters.aspx?ID=827

does the tick swarm really use Cling and deal 1d6 damage to itself every time it uses a damaging action

does it only use Cling once a turn when it has a reaction and then it just.....doesn't have a reaction anymore?


I'm very confused

Not when it uses a damaging action, the reaction trigger is a creature moving out of a space the swarm covers. This is most likely happening on a players turn.

The regular attack is

quote:

Swarming Bites Each enemy in the swarm's space takes 3d6 piercing damage (DC 28 basic Reflex save) plus Cling and exposure to tick fever.

Harold Fjord fucked around with this message at 05:00 on Nov 8, 2022

blastron
Dec 11, 2007

Don't doodle on it!


Harold Fjord posted:

Not when it uses a damaging action, the reaction trigger is a creature moving out of a space the swarm covers. This is most likely happening on a players turn.

The regular attack is

The "plus Cling" in the attack is the confusing bit. It would seem that every hit it does triggers Cling, dealing damage to itself and applying the persistent damage.

Epi Lepi
Oct 29, 2009

You can hear the voice
Telling you to Love
It's the voice of MK Ultra
And you're doing what it wants
Yeah that's worded oddly. I would assume its an either/or, either the effect of Cling triggers on a reaction or as part of the attack but it doesn't use the reaction as part of the attack.

sugar free jazz
Mar 5, 2008

Harold Fjord posted:

Not when it uses a damaging action, the reaction trigger is a creature moving out of a space the swarm covers. This is most likely happening on a players turn.

The regular attack is



Epi Lepi posted:

Yeah that's worded oddly. I would assume its an either/or, either the effect of Cling triggers on a reaction or as part of the attack but it doesn't use the reaction as part of the attack.


Cling is the reaction and it's apparently triggered on every damaging action by "plus Cling," as is Tick Fever regardless of damage actually being applied.


Maybe the idea is that they should be using Cling and applying Tick Fever every round even if they have to spend the whole turn moving, which is why they have it as a reaction and it's intentionally limited to once per turn by being a reaction and it just reads really weird. The goal of the Tick Swarm is to just crawl all over people and be gross crawly bugs kind of thing.

Amp
Sep 10, 2010

:11tea::bubblewoop::agesilaus::megaman::yoshi::squawk::supaburn::iit::spooky::axe::honked::shroom::smugdog::sg::pkmnwhy::parrot::screamy::tubular::corsair::sanix::yeeclaw::hayter::flip::redflag:
The lack of clarity on that ability is kind of shocking but I believe the intent is that Cling, when part of the Swarming Bites Strike is a subordinate action that does not required triggering the reaction or using the per turn reaction.

quote:

Subordinate Actions
An action might allow you to use a simpler action—usually one of the Basic Actions on page 469—in a different circumstance or with different effects. This subordinate action still has its normal traits and effects, but is modified in any ways listed in the larger action. For example, an activity that tells you to Stride up to half your Speed alters the normal distance you can move in a Stride. The Stride would still have the move trait, would still trigger reactions that occur based on movement, and so on. The subordinate action doesn’t gain any of the traits of the larger action unless specified. The action that allows you to use a subordinate action doesn’t require you to spend more actions or reactions to do so; that cost is already factored in.

Using an activity is not the same as using any of its subordinate actions. For example, the quickened condition you get from the haste spell lets you spend an extra action each turn to Stride or Strike, but you couldn’t use the extra action for an activity that includes a Stride or Strike. As another example, if you used an action that specified, “If the next action you use is a Strike,” an activity that includes a Strike wouldn’t count, because the next thing you are doing is starting an activity, not using the Strike basic action.

Harold Fjord
Jan 3, 2004
Somehow I read the whole thing and didn't see that it also uses Cling on attack. Since the whole thing is a gimmick I would use it on every single enemy hit each time they are hit.

GetDunked
Dec 16, 2011

respectfully

ShallNoiseUpon posted:

The lack of clarity on that ability is kind of shocking but I believe the intent is that Cling, when part of the Swarming Bites Strike is a subordinate action that does not required triggering the reaction or using the per turn reaction.

Oh, that's a handy rule to know. I may have been eating a lot of my players' and NPCs' reactions this way.

sugar free jazz
Mar 5, 2008

ShallNoiseUpon posted:

The lack of clarity on that ability is kind of shocking but I believe the intent is that Cling, when part of the Swarming Bites Strike is a subordinate action that does not required triggering the reaction or using the per turn reaction.

This is even weirder then because it’s applying persistent damage that doesn’t stack, so it’s just hitting itself for 1d6 for no reason


if i use these stupid things again i'll just have them only apply Cling and hit themselves if the target isn't already under the effects of Cling

sugar free jazz fucked around with this message at 17:14 on Nov 8, 2022

Cyouni
Sep 30, 2014

without love it cannot be seen
I'd argue that a target is only potentially subject to the Cling reaction if they've taken damage. If a rogue evasions out of the way of all the ticks, there's nothing for them to cling to there.

Proven
Aug 8, 2007

Lurker
I agree that Cling is a subordinate option and doesn’t require a reaction, but I think using Cling as part of the attack should be considered optional, like Improved Push.

But a swarm that only seems to want to suck blood would potentially just keep reapplying itself. To run it more intelligently you’d have to have it recognize when a player already is loaded up with its brethren that it needs to go find other food or leave.

Either way, using this in my next session as the minions for some stronger creatures.

the_steve
Nov 9, 2005

We're always hiring!

How's Kineticist looking lately? I haven't heard anything since they first released the playtest, though to be fair, I really haven't been involved in any Pathfinder stuff for awhile.

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Chevy Slyme
May 2, 2004

We're Gonna Run.

We're Gonna Crawl.

Kick Down Every Wall.

the_steve posted:

How's Kineticist looking lately? I haven't heard anything since they first released the playtest, though to be fair, I really haven't been involved in any Pathfinder stuff for awhile.

They did a blog post talking about the playtest feedback and making some broad strokes statements about what that might mean for the class design and it’s been radio silence since. Probably will be until the book drops late next year. They tend not to do second rounds of play tests I don’t think.

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