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quote:Like, by all means dunk on nazis on the internet, but in regular real life interactions screaming that somebody's a nazi (or other sub bigotries) might be dangerous, and will likely make you look crazy unless they're waving a swastika or something. It can't move the needle, it's not intended to. That's the kind of discourse I see from Facebook (and what I've seen of Twitter). This is the annoying thing about crypto fascism is that they will specifically do things to make people grossly overreact. The "circle game" is a perfect example of this. Reacting too strongly makes you look hypersensitive that will get legitimate grievances ignored. But letting it go just lets them carve out space to do more explicit things. So you have to have some measured and nuanced response which takes patience and energy. In a way you have to treat them like a classroom of edgy middle schoolers. Overreacting gives their trolling a disproportionate amount of power, but you can't just completely disregard it either. Panfilo fucked around with this message at 20:47 on Nov 5, 2022 |
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Nov 5, 2022 19:52
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I have had a lot of success with my nephew. His father died from covid and was anti vaccine. Before that I had challenged his views on race and sexuality by having him play it forward to the logical conclusion and showing that those beliefs are incoherent. I think his father dying after all the people from my side of the family, very liberal, had been pleading with them to get the vaccine kinda opened his eyes and showed him that maybe we do have his best interest at heart. Its one thing I am worried about with how the right is assaulting the public education system. Good teachers are quitting because they do not want to deal with the minefield that is the legislation in red states. This just leaves the more chuddy teachers.
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Nov 5, 2022 20:09
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ManBoyChef posted:I have had a lot of success with my nephew. His father died from covid and was anti vaccine. Before that I had challenged his views on race and sexuality by having him play it forward to the logical conclusion and showing that those beliefs are incoherent. I think his father dying after all the people from my side of the family, very liberal, had been pleading with them to get the vaccine kinda opened his eyes and showed him that maybe we do have his best interest at heart. It's the most effective way they can wipe out "wokism" in schools by simply throwing the whole baby out with the bathwater.
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Nov 5, 2022 20:52
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Yeah dont think for a moment that cons dont know the dominoes they are setting up. They know thier base is made up of the stupid motherfuckers, and that to get more stupid motherfuckers you need to stop public education from turning half of them to average intelligent people. Destroy the schools to gain power Hihohe fucked around with this message at 20:56 on Nov 5, 2022 |
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Nov 5, 2022 20:53
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Panfilo posted:I think the long game is eliminating public education altogether, not packing those schools with chuddy teachers. There's been an explosion in pro homeschooling legislation over the past few decades, conservatives are constantly nattering on about eliminating the Department of Education and suggesting the money spent per pupil should just go directly to the family of students. I'm assuming it's a cartel of private school interests pushing all this rhetoric, since giving every kid 8 grand and letting them "shop around" for education creates a captive market (like college now) and I wouldn't be shocked if the next step was public education student loans for full blown serfdom.
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Nov 5, 2022 21:01
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I'll throw myself into the pile of "the basically given up" crowd, with a caveat. I don't back down but I also don't seek out confrontation. I treat everyone like a human being and extend empathy to the extent that I am capable but I staunchly refuse to be pushed around or bullied and push back whenever it happens. Thing is, I find myself at a loss to "argue" or "debate" with people that are straight up denying abject reality right to my face and, worse, I become increasingly frustrated with...I dunno...always having to be the reasonable person and taking the higher ground with this poo poo when people are essentially and often quite angrily telling me that I hate America, want it to fail and support murdering babies in between rigging elections and cashing Soros checks. Where am I supposed to take that, exactly, and how do I not run out of Tolerance Gas dealing with demonstrably proven crazy people whose entire logicistical arsenal is poo poo that they heard on talk radio or some nonsense that Jones or Carlson was spewing all week long when they're not talking to me? I can't. I REALLY can not. My mother was mentally ill (so am I for that matter), had a lot of problems and at a certain point there is simply no rational conversation to be HAD. Humor and sarcasm are ineffective, let alone loving FACTS. Gotcha traps don't work. Nothing works. Not saying that all of these types are mentally ill but a lot of them are and almost ALL of them are brainwashed at a bare minimum. Usually I know the reasons why too. But I can't combat 45 hours of weekly absorbed RWM talking points with a 20 minute back and forth on my lunch break or while waiting in line pumping gas at a 7/11. It's like trying to pry away a loved one from a cult only, with this poo poo, it's roughly half of the population. Or, in my case, maybe 70% of my local population.
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Nov 5, 2022 21:11
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I have similar feelings to this but I feel like this site was going to change radically once Musk took over https://twitter.com/RottenInDenmark/status/1588985160288317440?s=20&t=VnxqjHUy1iQiajLpHl3GAA
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Nov 5, 2022 21:13
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FlamingLiberal posted:You're correct. They want to decouple funding from private schools with vouchers so that them or their buddies can run some lovely charter/private school where they can not even bother to provide a basic education but you will still pay tons for it And churches. A big part of their drive to ruin public education dovetails with their Dominionist bullshit about seizing the mountain of education back from "government schools" so they can indoctrinate the next generation of little Christian soldiers to purge the gays and fight the coming race war(s).
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Nov 5, 2022 21:29
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BiggerBoat posted:I'll throw myself into the pile of "the basically given up" crowd, with a caveat. I hear ya, you can only do what you can do. Plus it depends on your local demographics and it sounds like you're surrounded by... ugh. People in these parts are less likely to openly support trump in person, at least around me. And yeah, the ones who are in for trump are not tolerant to being told they're wrong when they inevitably say something completely untrue. I have some success with folks if I start with criticizing the democrats (from the left but they don't know that). Get on the same page about what we're mad about as low class laborers (wealthy people are a whole different loving thing). If they haven't blamed the jews gays blacks or w/e by this point I then start on how the Republicans are just as bad (worse but shhh) as the dems when it comes to our mutual dissatisfaction. How they're exploiting us and setting us against each other bolstered by a system we have no control over. How unlikely it is our needs and desires will come to pass. We laugh about poo poo like "but I have a black friend!", but it says something to me that the person in question does not want to be seen as racist or whatever. That's a good sign to me, considering I saw people from a nearby town advocating dragging nwords behind their truck on Facebook a few years ago. Right next to their names and faces. Nobody's fixing those fuckers with words or shunning. I can't seem to get many people to cross over the five alarm climate disaster line with me, but I guess I understand a lack of enthusiasm for "we're pretty hosed".
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Nov 5, 2022 22:38
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BRJurgis posted:I hear ya, you can only do what you can do. Plus it depends on your local demographics and it sounds like you're surrounded by... ugh. People in these parts are less likely to openly support trump in person, at least around me. And yeah, the ones who are in for trump are not tolerant to being told they're wrong when they inevitably say something completely untrue. Around here it's a loving contest to see who can have the biggest/most U.S. and Trump flags, unfortunately, but it gives me a worm's eye view of the poo poo I talk about in this thread at least. Dear, god, if it's like this here, I can only imagine what the landscape looks like in places like Mississippi, Alabama or Arkansas. And also, like you said, even meeting them half way doesn't work all that well. If I come off as down on Biden or lukewarm on Obama's presidency, it's NEVER for the reasons they assume so right there the line of communication get's broken. Yesterday at my job dealing poker hands, a female player noticed that all 5 players were women and jokingly called it "The Women's Table" so, playing along, I asked if I should leave and it immediately segued into a transphobic soliloquy on "How I identify" and "ya just don't know anymore" where "the other day, can you believe this, on a doctor form I had ta fill out a separate area askin about what gender I identify as and it's just crazy and ya just don't know anymore". Like this is some giant, widespread intrusion on their day to day life that's just too much. But this lady didn't like it, not one bit I tell ya what and it's just nuuuuutz! What's the % of the population with gender conflicts and, really, how often does it come up or gently caress with your life in any way? Is it that difficult to "deal with" in a way that happens every time you go to the grocery store or wherever the gently caress it is you go? Just loving be as polite as you can, buy your Pabst Blue Ribbon and scratch offs and loving move on. I was getting flashbacks to the time when "press one for English" was an affront to American Life and (certain) people were wonderin' whut the world wuz a comin' to" and askin whut country we even live in anymore. These people like to go on about this poo poo and complain about how everyone is a bunch of snowlakes that need to toughen up but you can knock most of them over with a loving feather and, good god, do you EVER have to tap dance around their delicate sensibilities. Don't say "jesus christ" or "gently caress" but what's wrong with "Washington Redskins" and why are black people allowed to say "n-word" but I can't? Because I'm a decent, respectful person, I try not to offend THEM - or anyone - but, man, are they easily set off. WAY MORE so than my gay/black/liberal friends. BiggerBoat fucked around with this message at 01:09 on Nov 6, 2022 |
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Nov 5, 2022 23:40
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Right wing media needs to be destroyed, is the conclusion I've come to. Individuals cannot compete with a 24-hour hate.
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Nov 6, 2022 17:23
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Mercury_Storm posted:Right wing media needs to be destroyed, is the conclusion I've come to. Individuals cannot compete with a 24-hour hate. I realized this was never going to happen after COVID. People were dying by the millions and it changed nothing. RWM was provably wrong on every single topic and it changed nothing. People want to be angry and what's more, they want that anger to feel vindicated. RWM provides that and short of an apocalyptic disaster that wipes out most life and somehow changes what's left of the public consciousness, that genie is permanently out of the bottle.
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Nov 6, 2022 17:28
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Thing is, deplatforming has a proven successful track record, and removing the largest, easily accessible sources of unmitigated bullshit would be a huge blow against RWM purveyors. It's just no one has had the will to follow through on any plan, if one even existed, past just pressuring and pulling advertisers. As we know with Fox in particular, this hasn't worked because cable rider fees keep them going and people keep paying for cable packages whether they watch it or not.
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Nov 6, 2022 17:46
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Levantine posted:I realized this was never going to happen after COVID. People were dying by the millions and it changed nothing. RWM was provably wrong on every single topic and it changed nothing. I feel like if more people had something to live for, they wouldn’t get into that cycle. The family member I have who fell into that poo poo is a boomer man: retired, no friends, loveless marriage marked by mutual avoidance during the day. He doesn’t read or even leave the house, really. I feel like he was miserable first and that’s how it got in. He was probably always a disgusting racist, but in his prime he had other things going on to distract him. If he had a single hobby or literally anything to look forward to, I don’t think he would be like that. I can’t believe people want to be like that, even though I just posted the opposite yesterday. Perhaps I’ll learn the truth as a lonely old bastard in 2050, but hopefully there won’t be electricity then.
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Nov 6, 2022 18:16
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Mercury_Storm posted:Right wing media needs to be destroyed, is the conclusion I've come to. Individuals cannot compete with a 24-hour hate. But HOW though? In a supposedly free society? I'm against censorship in most forms and you can't just decide that This Particular Thing shouldn't be allowed, at least in the way you seem to be alluding to. Slippery slope and all that where the other side wants to ban rap music, metal, books, etc. Capitalism and rampant advertising is what's brought us here and, unfortunately, most of us don't know the difference between news and a commercial anymore. WHen this whole talk radio thing first started out, I honestly thought it was a good thing. People presumably have a voice, everyone can speak and we can let the assholes, nazis and racists basically out themselves so we can identify them and laugh them out of the room. My blind spot was in presuming that, given a platform, Americans would roundly reject fascism, I hadnt considered call screeners and fake callers and the first time I noticed us creeping towards normalizing this poo poo was when I heard people talking about Rush and mentioning that "he has some good points once in a while". Which, early in the game, he actually did. Now we're here, dealing with straight up propaganda injected directly into people's veins that legit shape elections, but I don't see a way forward as far as "destroying" it that doesn't compound the problem and result in doubling down on the divisiveness. Every now and again advertisers speak to the issue with their wallets but there's always some My Pillow, Snuggie, Gold Buying, Home Security businesses who are more than willing to fill that void and tip off olds/rubes.
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Nov 6, 2022 19:11
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Mercury_Storm posted:Thing is, deplatforming has a proven successful track record, and removing the largest, easily accessible sources of unmitigated bullshit would be a huge blow against RWM purveyors. It's just no one has had the will to follow through on any plan, if one even existed, past just pressuring and pulling advertisers. As we know with Fox in particular, this hasn't worked because cable rider fees keep them going and people keep paying for cable packages whether they watch it or not. There's money to made doing this. Plain and simple. So long as that's true, RWM, talk radio, FOX, etc. aren't going anywhere. LWM/mainstream media does it too. Go check out those websites and see how many articles and how much of the "reporting" is just an ad disguised as a news article. This entire country is for sale, our entire foundation is built on cutting each other's throats to make money and I'm gently caress all if I see a way to change that.
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Nov 6, 2022 19:16
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BiggerBoat posted:But HOW though? In a supposedly free society? I'm against censorship in most forms and you can't just decide that This Particular Thing shouldn't be allowed, at least in the way you seem to be alluding to. Slippery slope and all that where the other side wants to ban rap music, metal, books, etc. I believe it’s known as the paradox of tolerance.
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Nov 6, 2022 21:11
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Honesty barring some amazing legislative action or lawsuits (like the Dominion one) I'm hoping that cable TV dies and takes Fox out with it, but that's not likely coming soon.
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Nov 6, 2022 21:25
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Mercury_Storm posted:Honesty barring some amazing legislative action I'm hoping that cable TV dies and takes Fox out with it, but that's not likely coming soon.
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Nov 6, 2022 21:27
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A campaign to have people stop buying cable packages with Fox etc. could at least be a reprieve. Also be sure to cancel your parent's cable plans when they get too old to handle their own finances lol I dont think there will be a sweeping solution to end this poo poo, it's going to be a constant battle against bad actors like its always been. Mercury_Storm fucked around with this message at 21:42 on Nov 6, 2022 |
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Nov 6, 2022 21:37
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https://twitter.com/realJamesKlug/status/1588647589607772161?t=BtcDLPBLxVC1UW33-UaKWQ&s=19 Didn't this used to to be Kaitlin Bennet's gimmick?
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Nov 6, 2022 21:45
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Mercury_Storm posted:A campaign to have people stop buying cable packages with Fox etc. could at least be a reprieve. Also be sure to cancel your parent's cable plans when they get too old to handle their own finances lol From their cold dead hands
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Nov 6, 2022 21:47
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Panfilo posted:https://twitter.com/realJamesKlug/status/1588647589607772161?t=BtcDLPBLxVC1UW33-UaKWQ&s=19 I thought her gimmick was making GBS threads herself and blacking out?
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Nov 6, 2022 23:16
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I AM GRANDO posted:I get that once people start consuming this stuff they go deeper and deeper, but I can’t imagine getting anything out of a show where a guy at a desk tells me about how I must hate my enemies. I assume it's something sort of like horror movies. The point isn't that people like being scared and anxious, it's that they're already scared and anxious, but while watching a horror movie they can transfer those fears and anxieties onto the screen, and feel relief when the monster is defeated. In the same way, a scared, angry and anxious conservative can listen to a ranting and raving radio host, and feel some emotional release by proxy.
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Nov 6, 2022 23:19
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nine-gear crow posted:I thought her gimmick was making GBS threads herself and blacking out? She is a woman of many deeply repellent talents. Dr. Arbitrary posted:I assume it's something sort of like horror movies. A large part of it is also validation: hearing your worst prejudices confirmed and reinforced helps keep quiet that little introspective voice that, left unchecked, might lead to "wait, are we the baddies?" moments.
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Nov 6, 2022 23:53
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I've seen this particular gimmick before and it's always so laughable. Oohhh look at me, I'm cisgender and go to church! So edgy! Liberals are so triggered by the fact that I eat meat! https://twitter.com/MelonieMac/status/1589359321770786817?t=Lpstsg4UJmJKzgDaGjrkNA&s=19
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Nov 7, 2022 03:27
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Panfilo posted:I've seen this particular gimmick before and it's always so laughable. Oohhh look at me, I'm cisgender and go to church! So edgy! Liberals are so triggered by the fact that I eat meat! The most galaxy of brains: the real rebels are us bootlickers! 
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Nov 7, 2022 03:42
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Panfilo posted:I've seen this particular gimmick before and it's always so laughable. Oohhh look at me, I'm cisgender and go to church! So edgy! Liberals are so triggered by the fact that I eat meat! Persecution complex. No one gives a poo poo what she does but she’s convinced everyone does.
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Nov 7, 2022 04:31
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Dr. Arbitrary posted:I assume it's something sort of like horror movies. This makes a lot of sense.
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Nov 7, 2022 04:35
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Related to the Twitter meltdown and Right-Wing media, we've gone from 'Free Speech' to 'Journalism is an enemy of the people' in 24 hours: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1589427115157778433?t=JmZvSwtnx8TokuHftFBqHQ&s=19 I fuckin' hate this, because one of the reasons that there is a lack of trust in journalism is the commodification of media that has accelerated due to rich assholes buying platforms and using lovely algorithms to generate traffic. The problem isn't journalism, it's gutting the institution so that only the most bullshit extremist takes get any sort of views. All because he got mad at someone tracking his private jet and reporting on his various corporate crimes. And the people most cheering it are false info peddlers like Jack Posobiec and their supporters. So basically, the right-wind chudosphere and the grifters who keep it rolling.
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Nov 7, 2022 07:41
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J.A.B.C. posted:All because he got mad at someone tracking his private jet and reporting on his various corporate crimes. Actually it was all because his wife left him for a trans woman after he said a bunch of transphobic stuff and she publicly asked him to stop, then the lovely right wing Onion account he was reading to cope with her leaving him got suspended for also making a bunch of transphobic jokes and he decided to avenge its loss by paying $44 billion dollars to personally get it unbanned. The kid tracking his flights was ancillary to the whole deal. This is literally all about Grimes, Chelsea Manning and the Bablyon Bee. It is THAT loving stupid.
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Nov 7, 2022 09:05
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As a reminder, right wing ideals always fail. It takes time, but they always fail. Elon will fail. The GOP too. Hopefully, we all survive long enough to piss on the ashes. Y'all be safe this week, feels like it's gonna be a wild few days.
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Nov 7, 2022 18:30
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pop fly to McGillicutty posted:As a reminder, right wing ideals always fail. It takes time, but they always fail. Elon will fail. The GOP too. Hopefully, we all survive long enough to piss on the ashes. Y'all be safe this week, feels like it's gonna be a wild few days. Over the long term, so far yeah. Shame they want to take so many of us with them in the process.
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Nov 7, 2022 23:14
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Panfilo posted:I've seen this particular gimmick before and it's always so laughable. Oohhh look at me, I'm cisgender and go to church! So edgy! Liberals are so triggered by the fact that I eat meat! “I can’t force my religious bullshit on the rest of society therefore I’m an outcast rebel.”
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Nov 7, 2022 23:28
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My 70 year old mother absolutely is anti-trump but as an example of how pervasive their messaging is her worries right now are that crime is so bad and that Biden has pretty much let the Chinese buy North Dakota.
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Nov 8, 2022 01:23
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Murgos posted:My 70 year old mother absolutely is anti-trump but as an example of how pervasive their messaging is her worries right now are that crime is so bad and that Biden has pretty much let the Chinese buy North Dakota. Remember when we were terrified the Japanese were going to buy up America? At least it gave us that racist Michael Crichton book Rising Sun.
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Nov 8, 2022 01:45
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bartok posted:Remember when we were terrified the Japanese were going to buy up America? At least it gave us that racist Michael Crichton book Rising Sun. Sean Connery and Wesley Snipes. Was that movie bad? Yes, yes it was, bust somehow still watchable.
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Nov 8, 2022 02:06
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I AM GRANDO posted:I feel like if more people had something to live for, they wouldn’t get into that cycle. The family member I have who fell into that poo poo is a boomer man: retired, no friends, loveless marriage marked by mutual avoidance during the day. He doesn’t read or even leave the house, really. I feel like he was miserable first and that’s how it got in. He was probably always a disgusting racist, but in his prime he had other things going on to distract him. If he had a single hobby or literally anything to look forward to, I don’t think he would be like that. The boomers are tremendously rich in money and time. He could be anywhere on Earth doing anything he wants and yet they just watch TV and rot their brains.
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Nov 8, 2022 02:38
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Oh, that was all over from the late 70s through the 80s. They mighty Japanese economy was going to overtake us with their technological prowess and huge reserves of money, because they plan long term and we only seek the short term gains. It was a lot more than Crichtons book - Die Hard, Mr Mom, Mr. Roboto (the Styx concept album), Back to the Future 2, Max Headroom, and many, many more, it was kind of a given that "they" would own everything. It was so pervasive I even heard a guy talking about it around '03 or so. A decade after their real estate bubble popped and they had to sell off most of the foreign holdings. The right does not like having to update their bigotry, unless it's to add some new target or thing to hate them for.
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Nov 8, 2022 02:41
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Yeah, the only difference with the anti-Japanese sentiment is that it was always really stupid. Just post-war hockey stick economic growth projected 50 years into the future and people going, "I am so smart." It never made any sense. A population with like a 3rd to half the population of the US, an island country with not a whole lot in terms of natural resources.. was gonna overtake the US. The difference now in the China rhetoric is that China is actually poised to overtake the US. All that's needed is for the US to stumble (like, say, the recession that's about to kick off), and it will happen. There's just many more Chinese people than American people. China's foreign trade and aid has been incredibly well-managed to put them in position to have preferred access to many natural resources in Africa. Americans basically can't be efficient or technological enough, or have a currency valued enough to compete with the sheer number of Chinese people. Axetrain posted:Cop seems like a likely option if he didn’t just bring too much liability. I mean the LA sheriffs department has outright white supremacist gangs among them though so I still think it’s possible. I know it seems like this is true, but the whole thing about becoming a cop is, broadly, that you kind of not being a complete gently caress-up on your way to being a cop. If he becomes a cop it will be, as you said, a county or local cop. However, it's gonna be somewhere not even as prestigious as Illinois.
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Nov 8, 2022 02:59
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