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I disagree. Rene finding out that the war he reminisces over is still going because there's a communist out there who didn't lay down their arms and has been continuing to murder people long after he stopped fighting and settled into a grumpy acceptance that the world he knew is never coming back would result in an immediate and violent reaction. e: spoilers for the top of the page
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Nov 6, 2022 22:24
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| # ? May 31, 2024 21:50 |
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An angry monarchist is a happy monarchist. That's why his wife left him.
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Nov 6, 2022 22:30
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Finally playing this up for the first time. Died of a fatal heart attack within like 10 minutes of starting. Second run: Radio call: Decided to beg for money to the point of embarrassment on the radio. No regrets (also embarrassed myself about other things but at least managed to lie about not losing my gun) Racist Lorry Driver Backed Kim up against racism initially but after discussing it further the driver decided I am - in fact - down with racism. I'm only scratching the surface and I can already tell this is going to be one of my favorite games ever. Eagerly awaiting the effect internalizing feminism will have on things.
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Nov 6, 2022 22:42
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Maybe come back to the thread once you have finished your first playthrough. Spoling as little as possible for yourself will be a much better experience than anything you could accidentally find out here.
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Nov 6, 2022 23:10
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Alchenar posted:I disagree. Rene finding out that the war he reminisces over is still going because there's a communist out there who didn't lay down their arms and has been continuing to murder people long after he stopped fighting and settled into a grumpy acceptance that the world he knew is never coming back would result in an immediate and violent reaction. an immediate and violent reaction would make Rene insanely happy imo
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Nov 6, 2022 23:13
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jiggerypokery posted:Maybe come back to the thread once you have finished your first playthrough. Spoling as little as possible for yourself will be a much better experience than anything you could accidentally find out here. Eh, I'm just posting into the void to collect my thoughts after the first hour or two, but I'll consider your advice.
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Nov 6, 2022 23:26
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There's also that Rene had a life after the war and didn't spend his days alone in a self imposed exile. He had his long time sandwich friend whom shared love of the same woman, something about love and war here. They snipe(heh) at each other but they have even at the first day of the game, more than a lot of other people. I got Rene's friend to give up the sandwich after he told me that Rene had passed. Didn't even mean to click the check and not sure what % it was but lmao either way.
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Nov 6, 2022 23:28
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wiegieman posted:The Deserter is an incredibly bitter old fool. He literally assassinated someone for the local labor union and is witnessing one of the largest corporations in the world get thrown out by a militant labor action just across the water. He watches a couple of beat cops and the local union muscle face down a team of armor plated, heavily armed killers with nothing but two muzzle loading pistols and their fists. He refuses to believe in anything but his specific revolution. Do drug cartels that are peeling off from a sanctioned corporations really qualify as militant labor action or is it just a turf war? Evrart is a mob boss
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Nov 7, 2022 02:27
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i am a moron posted:Do drug cartels that are peeling off from a sanctioned corporations really qualify as militant labor action or is it just a turf war? Evrart is a mob boss Username/post combo
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Nov 7, 2022 02:36
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i am a moron posted:Do drug cartels that are peeling off from a sanctioned corporations really qualify as militant labor action or is it just a turf war? Evrart is a mob boss Evrart is an interesting take on how someone materially pushing for positive progress might be an utterly repellant human being. The union is a faction full of people who might not condone everything Evrart gets up to, don't know about all of it, and are true believers in the cause. They are factually a union resisting the grip of a corporation which has hired war criminals to intimidate them, and the fact that we have to reconcile this with everything else is what makes it interesting.
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Nov 7, 2022 02:52
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For me, it really drives home that any union with sufficient power to threaten capital will necessarily be a criminal organization because all of its successful strategies will be outlawed.
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Nov 7, 2022 03:21
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Martin Luiga just posted some early (~2012) Elysium fiction. https://medium.com/@martinluiga/full-core-state-nihilist-bd6d6a13c3ba
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Nov 7, 2022 03:40
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i am a moron posted:Do drug cartels that are peeling off from a sanctioned corporations really qualify as militant labor action or is it just a turf war? Evrart is a mob boss Short answer, yes. The union is not a drug cartel with its roots in organized labor, they are an organized labor group that is willing to seek funding by moving goods for any and all customers that meet their criteria, as part of a contingent relationship based on their circumstances. Evrart doesn't allow the sale of drugs in Martinaise, for example. Evrart doesn't even have drugs to sell, he moves raw materials that are refined by La Puta Madre elsewhere in the city. Wild Pines is also willing to move goods for any and all customers that meet their criteria -- does this make them criminals? Of course not; they're in the club and the union isn't.
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Nov 7, 2022 04:08
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Cpt_Obvious posted:For me, it really drives home that any union with sufficient power to threaten capital will necessarily be a criminal organization because all of its successful strategies will be outlawed. Now that you say it like that maybe drug cartels are in fact good and not bad.
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Nov 7, 2022 07:54
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Greaseman posted:Evrart is an interesting take on how someone materially pushing for positive progress might be an utterly repellant human being. The union is a faction full of people who might not condone everything Evrart gets up to, don't know about all of it, and are true believers in the cause. They are factually a union resisting the grip of a corporation which has hired war criminals to intimidate them, and the fact that we have to reconcile this with everything else is what makes it interesting. Eh, lots of the Union members you meet aren't true believers and are just going along on the basis that the De Claire's are their only option (because they murdered their opponents). The corp was also willing to make concessions and do a deal in the face of the strike as it has repeatedly done before and is resorting to war criminals because Evart is refusing to negotiate. Evart is an accelerationist and while the game is wistfully sympathetic to the dream of communism I don't think we are being invited to agree with his methods. I think 'Communists get power and immediately start shooting people' is part of the reason why 0.000000000000% of communism has ever been built, and the game is clear it doesn't have a solution to that other than hope and is sad about the whole thing.
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Nov 7, 2022 09:00
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Alchenar posted:I think 'Communists get power and immediately start shooting people' is part of the reason why 0.000000000000% of communism has ever been built, and the game is clear it doesn't have a solution to that other than hope and is sad about the whole thing. Maybe they should have killed 400 million.
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Nov 7, 2022 09:11
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Cpt_Obvious posted:For me, it really drives home that any union with sufficient power to threaten capital will necessarily be a criminal organization because all of its successful strategies will be outlawed. In a capitalist society the state is an instrument serving the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie, so it only makes sense.
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Nov 7, 2022 11:34
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Alchenar posted:I think 'Communists get power and immediately start shooting people' is part of the reason why 0.000000000000% of communism has ever been built, and the game is clear it doesn't have a solution to that other than hope and is sad about the whole thing. Operation Death Blow wasn't done by the Communists.
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Nov 7, 2022 12:06
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Alchenar posted:Evart is an accelerationist and while the game is wistfully sympathetic to the dream of communism I don't think we are being invited to agree with his methods. I think 'Communists get power and immediately start shooting people' is part of the reason why 0.000000000000% of communism has ever been built, and the game is clear it doesn't have a solution to that other than hope and is sad about the whole thing. This is untrue both in the game and in the real world. Communists movements like the Cuban revolution outlawed capital punishment after the revolution, and exiled most of their political prisoner rather than executing them. It is also a successful communist movement with the highest literacy ratings and one of the best health care systems in the world.
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Nov 7, 2022 13:52
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It's also one of the *only* ones that somewhat successfully threaded the needle between running a tight enough ship to resist counter revolution and not becoming an autocratic police state
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Nov 7, 2022 13:56
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Samovar posted:Operation Death Blow wasn't done by the Communists. The game is clear the Communists were very murder happy and war crimey, which is part of why the rest of the world forms an alliance to crush them. E: sorry I'll clarify that in the last two posts I'm referring to the in game Communists and their failure. I don't think there is a direct analogy to our history, my read of the revolution is that it's essentially a what if of the Russian Civil War and subsequent Soviet-Polish war, with the end instead being early-NATO intervening and breaking up the USSR in 1929. Alchenar fucked around with this message at 16:17 on Nov 7, 2022 |
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Nov 7, 2022 15:11
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It's incredible that the game has a literal death squad as the main boss and players still come away with the idea that opposing them is the true evil.
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Nov 7, 2022 15:39
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Cpt_Obvious posted:It's incredible that the game has a literal death squad as the main boss and players still come away with the idea that opposing them is the true evil. Not if the type of cop you are is an ultraliberal cop 
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Nov 7, 2022 15:42
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lmao evrarte is a champ.
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Nov 7, 2022 15:58
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Im canceling evrart
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Nov 7, 2022 16:03
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true maturity means understanding that evrart is a hero
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Nov 7, 2022 16:20
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Alchenar posted:Eh, lots of the Union members you meet aren't true believers and are just going along on the basis that the De Claire's are their only option (because they murdered their opponents). which ones
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Nov 7, 2022 16:23
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Lol at the knots people tie themselves into to see the union as something that aligns that with their political views instead of a less worse (or maybe actually worse, hard to tell) version of Wild Pines headed up by Evrart. Everything that dude tells you is a lie, except for his unbridled excitement over loving Wild Pines and taking a bigger piece of the pie for himself. The union members we meet outside of Call Me Manana and Leo is a cast of racists, moralists, and Ruby who was running a drug operation and probably somewhere on the hustlegrind spectrum Edit: forgot about Lizzy who apparently really does believe in the cause i am a moron fucked around with this message at 17:00 on Nov 7, 2022 |
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Nov 7, 2022 16:58
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I think the company that employs war criminals to terrorize a labor union are the bad guys, even if the labor union deserves it for.... refusing to negotiate with the company?
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Nov 7, 2022 17:11
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i am a moron posted:Lol at the knots people tie themselves into to see the union as something that aligns that with their political views instead of a less worse (or maybe actually worse, hard to tell) version of Wild Pines headed up by Evrart. Everything that dude tells you is a lie, except for his unbridled excitement over loving Wild Pines and taking a bigger piece of the pie for himself. The union members we meet outside of Call Me Manana and Leo is a cast of racists, moralists, and Ruby who was running a drug operation and probably somewhere on the hustlegrind spectrum you're getting me real horny
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Nov 7, 2022 17:20
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It’s more like you mean the guy that authorized a fake lynching that led to the showdown that got his own people killed, disappeared competition for union leadership, is refusing to negotiate so he can freely run drugs that will greatly enrich him (and is already running a clandestine drug operation that is currently enriching him), and is doing land development deals that will harm the poorest citizens in Martinese is a champion of labor? There’s no denying his actions might benefit Martinase and the dockworkers but it also sounds a lot like a mob boss.
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Nov 7, 2022 17:21
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i am a moron posted:It’s more like you mean the guy that authorized a fake lynching that led to the showdown that got his own people killed, disappeared competition for union leadership, is refusing to negotiate so he can freely run drugs that will greatly enrich him (and is already running a clandestine drug operation that is currently enriching him), and is doing land development deals that will harm the poorest citizens in Martinese is a champion of labor? yea
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Nov 7, 2022 17:24
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Nov 7, 2022 17:25
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Diogenes of Sinope posted:Username/post combo
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Nov 7, 2022 17:26
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The scab leader literally has a story about gang raping, mutilating, and murdering a woman which he tells as a knee slapper.
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Nov 7, 2022 17:28
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But your right, it's the guys who didn't lynch anyone and lives in a shipping container who are the real villains.
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Nov 7, 2022 17:32
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The Union itself is sympathetic and you should want them to succeed, but Evrart is a murderous scumbag.
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Nov 7, 2022 17:38
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wow its almost like the game deliberately portrays a nuanced situation where no side is a pure moral good, even the ones the creator's politics align with. Personally I think the fact the union ( e: or at least the leadership) kinda sucks but its still orders of magnitude better than the alternative is kinda the whole point
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Nov 7, 2022 17:44
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Let's consider Joyce and Evrat's role in the story, for a moment. Joyce is a wonderful person to be around. She's smart, she's charming, she likes people, she always has time to talk, etc. This is mostly because she's a rich successful businesswoman who doesn't have anything else to do because the only other thing on her plate is waiting and seeing what happens with the live grenade she threw into a crowd of people (a grenade shaped like 4 heavily armed psychopaths in bulletproof armor.) Joyce freely admits that prior to Evrart taking over the union, she had complete control over the previous leadership - their negotiator knuckled under nine times out of ten and let Wild Pines get away with pretty much anything. That negotiator is now gone, because Evrart had him shot in the head and dumped in the sea. Evrart is a slimy, universally objectionable toad. He doesn't have time for you. He plays cheap games with you. He laughs at what a lovely failure you are. But, Evrart is standing up for his people. Evrart got the drugs out of Martinaise and makes sure that old men (who despise him) have sinecures and mentally unstable old ladies have someone like Titus checking up on them. Evrart knows where your gun went because Evrart knows where all the guns in Martinaise are. His story about a "community center" or whatever the gently caress going up on near the fishing village is total bullshit, he's probably going to expand the harbor or build some apartments - but do you think, given his track record, that he'll leave those people out in the cold? One of these people lives in Martinaise, cares about the other people living there, and is universally trusted by them as a leader. One of them is going to sail away in their "incredibly bougie" sports yacht before the bullets start flying. Which one of them is the good guy?
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Nov 7, 2022 17:58
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| # ? May 31, 2024 21:50 |
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The correct answer is "neither".
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Nov 7, 2022 18:02
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