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ZShakespeare)
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MNIMWA posted:https://twitter.com/RichardCityNews/status/1589623205722869760 I really hope CUPE sees this as a sign of weakness and squeezes them for all they can. Dougo tried the nuclear option to force the union to take a poo poo deal, and then blinked. I hope they black his eye enough that this is remembered 100 years from now.
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Nov 7, 2022 16:08
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Randalor posted:I really hope CUPE sees this as a sign of weakness and squeezes them for all they can. Dougo tried the nuclear option to force the union to take a poo poo deal, and then blinked. I hope they black his eye enough that this is remembered 100 years from now. Honestly, fighting the "teachers unions" is so important to his base that he should just resign in shame after this embarrassment.
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Nov 7, 2022 16:09
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I’m on the exec board for my local (CUPE, but no education workers) and our president just called an emergency meeting for the exec tonight. Never had this happen before in 4ish years of being a union rep
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Nov 7, 2022 16:20
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mom and dad fight a lot posted:The thought of a nurses strike just popped into my head, and I just realized how devastating a health care strike would be right around now. Be aware that in health care, most of the direct care workers are classified as essential services and would not go out in a strike, on ethical grounds if not legal ones. What happens in health care is support services and clerical go out and management has to scrub toilets, which is fun. But the nurses, care aides, etc are not going to just walk on patients in any situation. (This did not help the care aides in BC in 2004 as they got their pay cut anyway)
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Nov 7, 2022 16:53
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Another Bill posted:Honestly, fighting the "teachers unions" is so important to his base that he should just resign in shame after this embarrassment. Yeah, this was a test run against a related union to try this tact (Kory Teneyke or wahtever the gently caress admitted as much on PnP). That it exploded in their face probably means they'll just try some other way to crack the big teachers' (and nurses, and transit, and public sector) unions when those go into bargaining.
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Nov 7, 2022 16:56
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Randalor posted:I really hope CUPE sees this as a sign of weakness and squeezes them for all they can. Dougo tried the nuclear option to force the union to take a poo poo deal, and then blinked. I hope they black his eye enough that this is remembered 100 years from now. It's not blinking it's just the shittest possible offer, "I won't take away your right to strike if you agree not to strike". The entire point is to allow room for a Totonto Star editorial to blame both sides.
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Nov 7, 2022 17:03
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https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/doug-ford-testify-emergencies-act-inquiry-1.6643015 They should be required to show up in person and say 'I invoke Parliamentary Privilege' to each and every question.
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Nov 7, 2022 17:09
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Capital Letdown posted:I’m on the exec board for my local (CUPE, but no education workers) and our president just called an emergency meeting for the exec tonight. The locals I work with are all scrambling to put something together the last few days, for support and solidarity, if not outright sympathy strikes. The broader Canadian organization for another industry altogether has been working round the clock since last week getting people together on this.
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Nov 7, 2022 17:23
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DynamicSloth posted:It's not blinking it's just the shittest possible offer, "I won't take away your right to strike if you agree not to strike". Toronto Star was going to "Both Sides" the whole thing anyways, and I'm not sure how it's not blinking (the shittiest possible offer was "Lmao, get back to work, no you can't strike", and they told him to gently caress off and went on strike anyways.) Now he's backpeddling and trying to do damage control, and CUPE is in a much stronger position than before he tried the nuclear option because both they and Ford know that the general public is on CUPE's side.
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Nov 7, 2022 17:45
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Randalor posted:Toronto Star was going to "Both Sides" the whole thing anyways, and I'm not sure how it's not blinking (the shittiest possible offer was "Lmao, get back to work, no you can't strike", and they told him to gently caress off and went on strike anyways.) Now he's backpeddling and trying to do damage control, and CUPE is in a much stronger position than before he tried the nuclear option because both they and Ford know that the general public is on CUPE's side. This is funniest part to me, because Ford and his advisors are so loving stupid they didn't realize that using NWS gives them nowhere else to go if it doesn't work.
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Nov 7, 2022 17:55
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Randalor posted:Toronto Star was going to "Both Sides" the whole thing anyways Yeah before this it was just "wow education workers don't care about kids wowowow" that pops up any time a public service that provides actual good dares stand up for itself (education, healthcare, etc.)
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Nov 7, 2022 17:57
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Also, had he not done the stupidest possible thing, he might not have pissed off literally every single union. He has a massive, massive problem in that he's made an enemy of all organized labour, and they are out for blood.
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Nov 7, 2022 17:59
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PT6A posted:Also, had he not done the stupidest possible thing, he might not have pissed off literally every single union. Joke's on you (us), CUPE just announced they're ending the strike
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Nov 7, 2022 18:05
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Yeah they’re saying they got bill 28 repealed, strike is dismantling tomorrow. Doesn’t this just put us to exactly where we were last week? It’s not like Ontario is gonna form bargain in good faith right?
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Nov 7, 2022 18:08
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Strike is over, or picketing is over? And they said something about it being annulled, not repealed. Acknowledged that it was never a valid law in force to begin with.
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Nov 7, 2022 18:12
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abuse culture. posted:Joke's on you (us), CUPE just announced they're ending the strike People in this forum often build narratives in their head that's nowhere close to reality
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Nov 7, 2022 18:12
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TheCenturion posted:Strike is over, or picketing is over? From what I understand, the strike is over because the government is repealling the bill that triggered the strike in the first place. So basically, CUPE and the government are going back to the bargaining table.
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Nov 7, 2022 18:14
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Fart Amplifier posted:People in this forum often build narratives in their head that's nowhere close to reality Narratives or not, I can't see how this isn't a colossal own goal by CUPE. It turns a massive fuckup by Ford into a victory for him. And that doesn't even account for the fact that it clearly demonstrates that the usage of the notwithstanding clause worked, because labour blinked. I dunno, maybe there's some stuff that we don't know yet, but I'm not holding my breath.
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Nov 7, 2022 18:16
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Randalor posted:From what I understand, the strike is over because the government is repealling the bill that triggered the strike in the first place. So basically, CUPE and the government are going back to the bargaining table. Yeah, they clarified that workers will be back on the job tomorrow. So, back to the bargaining table, and in a legal strike position. Lemony posted:Narratives or not, I can't see how this isn't a colossal own goal by CUPE. It turns a massive fuckup by Ford into a victory for him. And that doesn't even account for the fact that it clearly demonstrates that the usage of the notwithstanding clause worked, because labour blinked. How is this not a victory for CUPE? One day of strike action, and the government folded completely. "We have to completely withdraw the bill we put down, and go back to the bargaining table we just passed a law to avoid going to" doesn't seem to be a Ford victory. Also nice to see the Union reps answering questions directly, and often with simple 'yes' or 'no' answers. TheCenturion fucked around with this message at 18:23 on Nov 7, 2022 |
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Nov 7, 2022 18:19
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Lemony posted:Narratives or not, I can't see how this isn't a colossal own goal by CUPE. It turns a massive fuckup by Ford into a victory for him. And that doesn't even account for the fact that it clearly demonstrates that the usage of the notwithstanding clause worked, because labour blinked. In what possible way could you view this as a Ford victory?
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Nov 7, 2022 18:28
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Ladies and Gentlemen, Douglas Ford is a loving BITCH MADE COWARD No spine, no balls, no brain. Just a sack of meat
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Nov 7, 2022 18:35
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Fart Amplifier posted:In what possible way could you view this as a Ford victory? The way it's going to be spun in the narrative put out by the right? Sure, he wasn't able to use the clause to force a unilateral contract on the union. But I suspect the story will be that he made a hard choice to use the clause to ensure schools stayed open, for the children. Then, he magnanimously offered to rescind the clause if the union went back to work. The union did go back to work, so obviously it was a success. To clarify, that isn't how I see things, but I'd bet that'll be the primary narrative coming out of the provincial government. I can see how the union might view this as a victory, but as things stand I don't think I do. poo poo was falling apart for Ford very quickly and this lets him put out one of the fires temporarily. It's not like this will magically make his government actually negotiate in good faith. If the union gets in a position during negotiations where they feel like they have to strike again, it's probably going to be significantly harder to gain broad public support.
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Nov 7, 2022 18:37
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It seems to me like if they had continued the illegal strike after shithead rescinded the bill, they would have lost a lot of their public support. I hope they don't back down on their demands though.
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Nov 7, 2022 18:40
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Lemony posted:The way it's going to be spun in the narrative put out by the right? Sure, he wasn't able to use the clause to force a unilateral contract on the union. But I suspect the story will be that he made a hard choice to use the clause to ensure schools stayed open, for the children. Then, he magnanimously offered to rescind the clause if the union went back to work. The union did go back to work, so obviously it was a success. A) This is 100% a victory for the union. They defied the law and forced the government to void a piece of legislation that outlawed collective bargaining. B) Unions don't answer to broad public support, they answer to their membership. Broad public support is not the purpose of the exercise.
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Nov 7, 2022 18:40
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The Coward Douglas Ford flinched super hard. If he bails on his promise now, a general strike is guaranteed.
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Nov 7, 2022 18:41
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MA-Horus posted:Ladies and Gentlemen, You know, I've always thought this kind of narrative is counterproductive. Insulting somebody for not riding a bad decision to death would seem to just encourage people to dig in and ride bad decisions to, you know, death. It's a good thing that Ford realized that he was going to lose this fight, and not fight it anyway to the detriment of the entire province.
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Nov 7, 2022 18:43
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TheCenturion posted:You know, I've always thought this kind of narrative is counterproductive. Insulting somebody for not riding a bad decision to death would seem to just encourage people to dig in and ride bad decisions to, you know, death. Counterpoint Douglas Ford is a Coward. He was born a Coward, he will die a Coward. He's a waste of organic material, and my hate for him burns hotter than nuclear fission. He's directly responsible for hundreds of deaths during COVID due to his cowardice and stupidity and i will never forgive him for that. He's not good enough for the piss I'll spill on his grave.
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Nov 7, 2022 18:46
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Unions answer to their membership. Broad public support is what lets you win strikes, because it's what prevents the government from just pulling bullshit to break you. That's less the case if you go back to when unions were willing to break poo poo and take direct action against things like attempts to cross picket lines, but I'd wager the majority of people don't want to go back to that. Look, I'm no expert, I could very easily be wrong. If thread consensus is that this is a major union victory, then maybe I'm just being overly pessimistic.
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Nov 7, 2022 18:48
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Another Bill posted:A) This is 100% a victory for the union. They defied the law and forced the government to void a piece of legislation that outlawed collective bargaining. They don’t have a contract, they are back in the same position as they were last week with a strike off the table for the immediate future. The government they are negotiating with / against didn’t change. If there was more in the background around negotiations, then happy to say I’m wrong on this, but on the face of it this seems like the government bill worked to take the strike off the table.
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Nov 7, 2022 18:50
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https://twitter.com/CBCPitchbot/status/1589626455260303360
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Nov 7, 2022 18:51
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Jordan7hm posted:They don’t have a contract, they are back in the same position as they were last week with a strike off the table for the immediate future. The government they are negotiating with / against didn’t change. If there was more in the background around negotiations, then happy to say I’m wrong on this, but on the face of it this seems like the government bill worked to take the strike off the table. Strike is not off the table. They continue to be in a legal strike position. They could walk back out on Friday if they wanted to.
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Nov 7, 2022 18:52
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Another Bill posted:Strike is not off the table. They continue to be in a legal strike position. Public opinion on said strike gonna turn badly against them after they agree to end the strike if the bill is repealed. When the legal, doesn’t use notwithstanding clause, back to work legislation comes through the union is not going to have public support.
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Nov 7, 2022 18:53
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Jordan7hm posted:Public opinion on said strike gonna turn badly against them after they agree to end the strike if the bill is repealed. When the legal, doesn’t use notwithstanding clause, back to work legislation comes through the union is not going to have public support. Yes but back to work legislation usually if not always (I believe?) includes binding arbitration. Binding arbitration is a win for the union.
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Nov 7, 2022 18:54
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Another Bill posted:Yes but back to work legislation usually if not always includes binding arbitration. Binding arbitration is a win for the union. If your goal as a union is to get the government to do back to work legislation you may have lost the plot somewhere.
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Nov 7, 2022 18:55
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I don't know why everyone is so hung up on public support. You're casting a lot of opinions about what may happen re: public support when collective bargaining has been recognized a a Charter right by the Supreme Court.
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Nov 7, 2022 18:56
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I see it as the union having Ford's balls in a vice and not twisting until they pop, which is bad imo, but that's my rather limited and vindictive view on the matter. I hope they get all that they want and more, and the ever-encroaching threat of a completely powerless labour force is pushed back by these actions.
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Nov 7, 2022 18:58
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Honestly all this hand wringing about what may happen to public support if the union exercises their right to strike is some of the most Lib poo poo I've ever heard and you all should be ashamed.
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Nov 7, 2022 19:04
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Another Bill posted:Honestly all this hand wringing about what may happen to public support if the union exercises their right to strike is some of the most Lib poo poo I've ever heard and you all should be ashamed. You should address specific points by specific posters instead of doing what you are doing.
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Nov 7, 2022 19:11
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Lemony posted:Unions answer to their membership. Broad public support is what lets you win strikes, because it's what prevents the government from just pulling bullshit to break you. That's less the case if you go back to when unions were willing to break poo poo and take direct action against things like attempts to cross picket lines, but I'd wager the majority of people don't want to go back to that. Speaking as a union rep, you're looking for razorblades in your pillowcases. It's important to take your victories when you get them and enjoy it, not beat yourself up over how much better it could have gone.
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Nov 7, 2022 19:15
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Another Bill posted:I don't know why everyone is so hung up on public support. Also this. The support of your members is what matters and is what empowers your actions, not the opinion of Derek from down the street. Derek isn't going to be picketing Stephen Lecce's office with you in the arse-end of January, and he's not going to be writing to his MP to tell him to stop being a oval office.
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Nov 7, 2022 19:19
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