|
Lord_Magmar posted:Yeah lets be clear, the reason the Batarian Hegemony is not part of the Council Races is because they refuse to abandon the practice of slavery as they consider it a "cultural touchstone". It's actually worse than that. They left in a huff because humans appeared on the scene and started colonizing the same space in the galaxy the batarians were colonizing. The batarians complained to the Council, who basically shrugged and said they weren't going to partition off a whole section of un-colonized planets for the batarians to work through. So the batarians closed their embassy and severed diplomatic and economic relations to retreat back into their non-Council territory. This was so their government could quietly fund pirates, slavers, and mercenaries to do wide-scale assaults on the human colonies the batarians didn't like. The Council tut-tutted their ~cultural heritage slavery~ but were fine associating with the batarians if they kept the slave trade out of Council space. This is because the batarians would cry about how actively banning any slavery was discrimination against them in particular. ME1 and ME2 also love populating lore on all the planets you explore with various war crimes the batarians were happy to carry out even before they left Council space. Plus all the missions in 2 where you interact with batarians and they're doing awful things right in front of you. Those get white washed as "rogue groups" but it comes off very much like how every operating cell in Cerberus is a "rogue cell" as soon as the evil experiments inside get exposed. Your first encounter with any batarians is the ME1 DLC leading into 2, where some batarians want to crash a massive asteroid into a settled human planet, causing a mass extinction event. If you ask them why it's essentially "gently caress you for settling this planet first, and then fighting back when we raided this planet and drove us off before!!" The DLC leading between ME2 and ME3 is about how Shepard has to blow up a Mass Relay in a settled bit of batarian space, and no you can't warn them or prevent all the planets from being obliterated. If you play that mission, it's the justification for why you're grounded and haven't been able to do anything for months at the start of 3. Because the batarians hate you and want you put on trial for war crimes. It's an absurd amount of writing that seems to reinforce how awful batarians are on every level. I assume they didn't do this intentionally, but a lot of writers using them a couple times and nobody keeping track of how often they were used until they became the "default bad guy aliens" out of the small pool of active alien species they'd introduced. With all the times this happens though, the "trust us, there's some decent ones just off camera!" rings pretty hollow. Especially when in ME3, the Reapers arrived in batarian space first (because they'd stolen and lied about stealing a dead reaper years before this and a huge segment of their science and political leadership ended up quietly Reaper Indoctrinated) and decimated it. RIP to most of the nice batarians, I guess. Nuns with Guns fucked around with this message at 19:49 on Nov 5, 2022 |
#
?
Nov 5, 2022 19:44
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 12:02 |
|
|
They also made them incredibly ugly by our standards. Batarians and Vorcha both. None of the other species get that treatment. Bioware knew what it was doing. Making unsympathetic orc and goblin fodder you'd feel no guilt in mowing down by the hundreds. The odd part is that it wasn't necessary. There was Cerberus, mercs, gangs, robots, and what we now know were extremist Geth. So, why?
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2022 00:12
|
|
|
Geth are hot tho.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2022 00:30
|
|
|
I think there's only one nice Batarian in all of Me2 and he's the one you can let die at the start of Mordin's recruitment mission.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2022 01:23
|
|
|
there are a bunch of allied batarians in the ME3 multiplayer.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2022 01:46
|
|
|
Blockhouse posted:there are a bunch of allied batarians in the ME3 multiplayer. mp, not canon 
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2022 02:10
|
|
|
beep by grandpa posted:mp, not canon A bunch of the MP characters show up in Citadel, which also canonizes the MP's gacha as in-universe being the result of Alliance logistics being so bad they just end up sending random poo poo to people and it's a gamble as to whether or not any of it is useful
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2022 02:26
|
|
|
I was joking!
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2022 02:32
|
|
|
Oxyclean posted:Yeah, but it starts to feel almost like a failing of the game to give the Baterians any sympathetic angles, while it manages to give nuance to just about every other race. Apraxin fucked around with this message at 03:45 on Nov 8, 2022 |
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2022 02:43
|
|
|
Blockhouse posted:there are a bunch of allied batarians in the ME3 multiplayer. 3 sets up that after batarian society was basically glassed, the survivors and resistance fighters who collected together to against the Reapers will... probably make a not-lovely society built around class solidarity post-war. Ensuring a great future is promised of nice batarians even further offscreen!
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2022 03:33
|
|
|
God, seeing Pat's bafflement followed by rage at Bayo 3's ending is great. It's rare to see him this genuinely mad. He's even still fuming about it during the re8 dlc. Him comparing it to Star Wars on the podcast sent Woolie into panic mode.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2022 04:49
|
|
|
Kay Kessler posted:God, seeing Pat's bafflement followed by rage at Bayo 3's ending is great. It's rare to see him this genuinely mad. He's even still fuming about it during the re8 dlc. Him comparing it to Star Wars on the podcast sent Woolie into panic mode. The rage is hella interesting because it's clear he's not actually interested in any explanation, and that's super fair.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2022 05:04
|
|
|
True love is sitting down at the request of your wife and be willing to endure the entirety of Wee Sing and the Big Rock Candy Mountain
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2022 05:06
|
|
|
Lord_Magmar posted:The rage is hella interesting because it's clear he's not actually interested in any explanation, and that's super fair. Do you mean Pat not explaining the ending? Because Woolie can't play bayo 3 yet.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2022 05:23
|
|
|
Tae posted:Do you mean Pat not explaining the ending? Because Woolie can't play bayo 3 yet. No, Pat refusing to listen to explanations.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2022 05:35
|
|
|
Lord_Magmar posted:No, Pat refusing to listen to explanations. No explanation could salvage that ending.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2022 05:36
|
|
|
Lord_Magmar posted:No, Pat refusing to listen to explanations. Isn't the explanation that he would have to read codecs
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2022 05:48
|
|
|
Tae posted:Isn't the explanation that he would have to read codecs He was also ignoring and/or being one guyed on that because people were giving some of the answers to his questions. Including stuff shown on screen that he was ignoring because it wasn't a direct explanation but something you have to infer an answer for. By no means is the ending good, the story all over has problems which come to a head in the ending. But it's not nearly as bad as people think.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2022 05:54
|
|
|
Yeah. It's even worse. Bayo 3's story is a mess from top to bottom.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2022 06:01
|
|
|
Vandar posted:Yeah. It's even worse. It's written terribly but the actual end result is like, fine. Bayo 3 Bayo and Luka went to hell and now work for Madama Butterfly as enforcers. Every other dead Bayo and Jeanne was reborn alongside their universes because Singularity's multiversal fate control got broken (they don't die in that fight they're just removed from the fight as Singularity is forced to undo the universal collapse to escape them it specifically uses the glitching that shows when realities are overlapping). Viola stays in Bayo 3's universe instead of her own because she's from the Alphaverse which is the only universe to not be restored (because it is where Singularity is from, also Dark Adam and Dark Eve so I guess that's one other actual dead dead Bayo). Bayo 1 Bayo and Bayo 2 Bayo return to their own universes via Ginnungagap including having the particle effects using it causes. It's presented loving awfully, but the actual "ideas/beats" are relatively fine. It just needed an actual writer/editor to make it flow properly and explain itself better.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2022 06:08
|
|
|
That has extreme comic book plotline energy
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2022 06:14
|
|
|
Lord_Magmar posted:It's written terribly but the actual end result is like, fine. Bayo 3 Bayo and Luka went to hell and now work for Madama Butterfly as enforcers. Every other dead Bayo and Jeanne was reborn alongside their universes because Singularity's multiversal fate control got broken (they don't die in that fight they're just removed from the fight as Singularity is forced to undo the universal collapse to escape them it specifically uses the glitching that shows when realities are overlapping). Viola stays in Bayo 3's universe instead of her own because she's from the Alphaverse which is the only universe to not be restored (because it is where Singularity is from, also Dark Adam and Dark Eve so I guess that's one other actual dead dead Bayo). Bayo 1 Bayo and Bayo 2 Bayo return to their own universes via Ginnungagap including having the particle effects using it causes. You've changed my mind, that's actually a very straightforward and comprrehensible narrative. The presentation must have been godawful if Pat had trouble understanding all that. I can't believe he didn't pay attention to chat's explanations
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2022 09:06
|
|
|
Any multiverse/timelines/timetravel storyline has a high likelihood of being bad because of hazards like feeling arbitrary or being too complicated to pay off or undo whatever problem that was the initiating incident. So i'm not exactly amazed that people are not in love with the ending, because I think I was in the same place as pat where bayo stories were never what I was there for, more the general aesthetic and gameplay, so at least there's no major loss there
Wallrod fucked around with this message at 09:57 on Nov 8, 2022 |
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2022 09:55
|
|
|
Kazzah posted:You've changed my mind, that's actually a very straightforward and comprrehensible narrative. The presentation must have been godawful if Pat had trouble understanding all that. I can't believe he didn't pay attention to chat's explanations I did not say straightforward or comprehensible, I also said it's fair that he wasn't interested in the explanation (both read the codex, and what the chat was trying to say or point out) because the ending is bad and he'd clearly checked out part way through the final boss. It's just not "that bad" is all, although only if you care to investigate the ending and there's no reason to do that because the initial presentation is indeed, the worst part.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2022 10:06
|
|
|
to my understanding you’re primed to dislike the ending anyway because Bayonetta 3 is just one long series of Bayonetta failing to accomplish anything and getting her rear end kicked, which is tedious at the best of times and completely antithetical to the character
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2022 13:22
|
|
|
I imagine his take is different on this week's cast now that he finished it, but I remember Pat and Woolie going "oh well the story doesn't matter really" before and I always feel, when I hear something like that, "well if the story doesn't matter why is it even there?" this is why Revengeance is the best character action game, 9 years running
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2022 13:47
|
|
|
Oxxidation posted:to my understanding you’re primed to dislike the ending anyway because Bayonetta 3 is just one long series of Bayonetta failing to accomplish anything and getting her rear end kicked, which is tedious at the best of times and completely antithetical to the character The Bayo you play as is constantly kicking rear end, but yes this is part of the issue. It's every other Bayo that gets killed by an attack from behind, and the ending barely resolves that by vaguely hinting (but not confirming, and honestly it's a huge stretch) it may have in fact been part of the plan to get them all in one place to gently caress up Singularity. Who is absorbing them for his plan. The game's writing is like, easily the worst in the series. It's just not nearly as bad at the end as people are doomposting about is all.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2022 14:01
|
|
|
I've been at the last 2 chapters for a few days and I'm interested in seeing how bad this gets. I can see the seeds for something super dumb.
|
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2022 14:17
|
|
|
Rody One Half posted:I imagine his take is different on this week's cast now that he finished it, but I remember Pat and Woolie going "oh well the story doesn't matter really" before and I always feel, when I hear something like that, "well if the story doesn't matter why is it even there?" Revengence is the greatest love story ever told and I’m not sure I want a sequel for fear that it could get messed up.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2022 14:23
|
|
|
I'm booing rn. These credits loving suck I'm glad bayo3 bayo is being sent to hell for being straight. Large chunk of the finale is "and then this is cool therefore it happened." Which I'm down for mostly. But oof. At least that final level is cool af fights. i'll get the secret chapter but imma go full goon and say Viola is the 9/11 of this franchise. viola as new bayonetta and then going "to be continued in a new generation" like. even if i liked viola, she had less than a third of the game and she gained nothing in the last third of the game. You get her (pretty lame) devil trigger in like chapter 10/14, there's nothing ot make her feel more realized int hat ending because she has 1 moveset in a game that gives you a new moveset almost every chapter for bayonetta. When the game ended I was excited to farm out orbs because there's like 4 movesets i wanna try for Bayo. Nothing new for Viola. story's nonsensical, but that'd be fine if you were rooting for the protagonist, instead they suck all the momentum to sell you a new hero but do so so badly. MorningMoon fucked around with this message at 18:48 on Nov 8, 2022 |
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2022 18:12
|
|
|
I think the game suffers massively from trying to tell a more complicated, serious story than the last two games and then not allowing Bayonetta to actually be a character at all during it. Terrible poo poo continuously happens and her only reactions are complete ambivilance or frowning for like ten seconds and then immediately going back to flirty quips. It just doesn't play at all. Like, DMC 5 also went this angle but Nero was the core of that game and about as complex of a character as that franchise gets, and even Dante got some serious moments and emotional depth. This game makes Bayo come off like a more shallow character than the loving wacky woohoo pizza man. e: In general it feels like Patinum saw DMC 5 and the last two Avengers movies, went "pfft we can do that", and then tripped face first into a pile of manure. Blockhouse fucked around with this message at 19:08 on Nov 8, 2022 |
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2022 18:55
|
|
|
It really felt to me like DMC 5 met Spider-man: No Way Home, except the role of Nero is played by Ned Leeds. I would be very okay with Bayos jobbing to this nothing threat if the Bayonetta Kamen Rider V3 segment at the end was the climax, instead of everything relating to Viola. There's so much I can forgive in the story, but the gameplay suffers for Viola. She gets almost a third of the chapters, but she has the one moveset, while Bayonetta gets like a dozen, at a pace i actually can't keep up unless I can replay Viola's chapters as Bayonetta. It's so strange that I might be willing to give this game a 9 depending on how character select works, i should just find that out right now and get that secret chapter. Platinum totally saw spider-man/doctor strange, thought "pfft we can do that" and then managed to get it done once before going "nevermind this is hard....." MorningMoon fucked around with this message at 19:11 on Nov 8, 2022 |
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2022 19:08
|
|
|
laughing a little bit because i beat bayo 3 yesterday and the thread got me curious what pat thought, and i had the exact same thought about the game he compared it to when i beat it. i was worried about even bringing up a comparison with third birthday anywhere because it sounds inflammatory but it sums up my thoughts on it perfectly.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2022 19:42
|
|
|
The mysterious indie game included is helping me feel better. What a fantastic game that's botched in such a critical level. e: was making stew for dinner and listening to the podcast. Screamed when Pat said the ending was 9/11 for gay people because that's what i said hours ago!! MorningMoon fucked around with this message at 02:37 on Nov 9, 2022 |
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2022 20:23
|
|
|
Looks like Woolie's back to his regular schedule starting Wednesday, so it's possible he'll hit the suicide mission in ME2 either Thursday or the session after that and I know a few people were interested in catching that live.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2022 22:56
|
|
|
Also woolie has diabietes now
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2022 02:57
|
|
|
Wait really Fuuuuuck, man.
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2022 03:06
|
|
|
Tae posted:Also woolie has diabietes now WHAT THE gently caress? THAT loving SUCKS Where did he mention it? Podcast?
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2022 03:56
|
|
|
At the beginning of the podcast, he has type-2 and has been trying to fight it before Covid hit and prevented him from exercising. Strictly from content creation, he has to start later in the day for his streams because he has to dedicate more time exercising now to try and fight it into remission.
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2022 04:00
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 12:02 |
|
|
GOD drat YOU, MICHAEL JORDAN! But yeah, Woolie's on it though. Sounds like he and the doc got a regimen planned out to keep it down. Rootin' for him. The Diabetes Training Arc has begun!
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2022 04:20
|
|
