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GreyjoyBastard posted:no horny there is nothing at all horny about this long standing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2keIfaPHgw Mr. Nice! fucked around with this message at 23:59 on Nov 3, 2022 |
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Nov 3, 2022 23:55
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Zopotantor posted:"Little fishes" - the only thing that I can think of is the Far as i know, that's where it comes from. The Satyricon also uses the word, but its probably in reference to Tiberius's boys. Pisciculi was also used in a nonsexual way by Roman Christians to refer to themselves, particularly converts, but that's because of all the fish references in Christianity.
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Nov 4, 2022 02:32
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Mr. Nice! posted:there is nothing at all horny about this long standing No matter who loses, we win.
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Nov 4, 2022 03:37
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I'm not entirely sure this is the right thread, but I feel the answer probably relates to some ancient history. Why has wrestling and feats of strength seemingly persisted in popularity in the east - eastern Europe through to, I don't know, the steppes? I know there's wrestling traditions almost everywhere, but I feel that a lot of those in western Europe are fairly niche activities now. I'd never really thought about it, but I was wondering if it related to the ERE in some way, or it's legacy.
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Nov 4, 2022 08:51
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I know he's impossible to see but he does exist.
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Nov 4, 2022 09:11
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Elissimpark posted:I'm not entirely sure this is the right thread, but I feel the answer probably relates to some ancient history. Why has wrestling and feats of strength seemingly persisted in popularity in the east - eastern Europe through to, I don't know, the steppes? The decline only happened in the 20th century, and even then it was a decline in to the benefit of boxing, attention which moved onto MMA in turn. I also wouldn't say that entertainment wrestling is niche.
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Nov 4, 2022 09:26
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:The decline only happened in the 20th century, and even then it was a decline in to the benefit of boxing, attention which moved onto MMA in turn. I also wouldn't say that entertainment wrestling is niche. Oh, its definitely not niche, but I'm sure the line to entertainment wrestling is probably from Italian commedia dell'arte through British pantomime, but that's something for another time.
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Nov 4, 2022 15:13
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Yeah, I think the most straightforward explanation is that it's easier for marginal sports to survive in places where talented athletes don't all get funneled into big money sports. Like, heavyweight MMA was extremely bad for a long time, in part because most talented American heavyweight athletes get channeled into football. (And if you washed out of football, pro wrestling was probably a better bet than MMA. The best base for MMA is wrestling, and the best base for WWE is to be a football player with a bad knee.) The history of worked wrestling is also heavily influenced by 19th century French music-hall entertainment, specifically the Rossignol-Rollin troupe. A lot of the conventions and gimmicks of present-day rasslin' were already established in France in the 1860s. Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 15:25 on Nov 4, 2022 |
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Nov 4, 2022 15:19
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Halloween Jack posted:Yeah, I think the most straightforward explanation is that it's easier for marginal sports to survive in places where talented athletes don't all get funneled into big money sports. Like, heavyweight MMA was extremely bad for a long time, in part because most talented American heavyweight athletes get channeled into football. (And if you washed out of football, pro wrestling was probably a better bet than MMA.) Heavyweight MMA is still very bad outside of like two to three fighters. Heavyweight MMA is the place where a high school wrestler turned fire fighter can become UFC champ. The current Bellator HW champion is a washout UFC light heavy weight that just isn't cutting weight anymore. It is called trashweight for a reason. You're 100% right that all of the Americans that would be in both LHW and HW prize fighters tend to get funneled into other more lucrative sports. Also grappling is one of the oldest human competitions. We've been getting naked or nearly naked and rolling around with each other aggressively since long before we had written word.
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Nov 4, 2022 15:29
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Sorry, I didn't realize. I swore off MMA when Michael Bisping won a title. I found that e.g. Santos, Velasquez, and Roy Nelson were infinitely more entertaining than Sylvia.
Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 15:36 on Nov 4, 2022 |
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Nov 4, 2022 15:34
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Halloween Jack posted:Sorry, I didn't realize. I swore off MMA when Michael Bisping won a title. Oh man left hand larry dropping Luke Rockhold was loving incredible, but I get why people don't like Bisping. He's a self-admitted rear end in a top hat. Luke Rockhold is still the winner in my book for the person who most looks like what you would expect someone to look like based upon their name. Francis and Cyril are really the only "good" heavyweights and the former has only trained any kind of fighting for 7 or 8 years at this point. He shot to the top because he's strong enough and hits hard enough to just put people out, but if you shrank him down to normal person size, he would get wrecked by much more talented/experienced people. Gane is an incredible kickboxer with a long past. Heavyweight kickboxers doing well in MMA is not uncommon. Below them the next best guy is Stipe Miocic, who, like I said, literally is a full time fire fighter that just picked up fighting as a hobby. Derrick Lewis is probably right behind him, and he also is just someone who hits really hard, is hard to knock out, and is strong enough to just stand up when a wrestler takes him down. Below them, well, it is dire. Ryan Bader is the king of heavyweights outside the UFC. His last UFC fight was at LHW against Rumble Johnson and he effectively lost due to terror. I have never actually seen a fighter afraid in the ring like Ryan Bader was that night. Considering how hard Rumble hits people, I can't say I blame him.
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Nov 4, 2022 15:41
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My hatred for Bisping came down to the fact that, in addition to being an enormous douche, he would never have gotten to that level if he hadn't been spoonfed a string of easy fights because Dana White wanted an entry into the UK market. The whole thing made me realized how much combat sports are a work, even when they're not scripted. Bisping had 29 UFC fights, and 10 of those were against guys who washed out of the UFC or retired altogether shortly after fighting him. On multiple occasions he got the chance to prove himself against aging champions like Wanderlei, and choked. Yeah, he eventually made good on it, but nobody else would have been given so many chances. I did not expect Rumble Johnson to make a career comeback. Last time I paid attention to him he was getting choked out by fellow douche Josh Koscheck. Anyway! To make this relevant: something I've heard many times over the years is the notion that Asian martial arts were all inspired by Alexander the Great bringing pankration to India. As if people in China couldn't figure out how to hit and wrestle each other by themselves.
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Nov 4, 2022 16:13
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Halloween Jack posted:
I've been out of the combat sports/martial arts arena (heh) for a decade or so, but IIRC the prevailing belief was it came FROM India outwards. I've always had the same thought, though - especially when you get into the Japanese v Chinese/Okinawan arts and realize it's all a bunch of bullshit history, usually steeped in some sort of racism to some extent (whether intentional or not). Grabbing and hitting people is fundamental to life, nobody had to spread anything. edit: Also, gently caress Bisping.
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Nov 4, 2022 20:08
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any type of martial training counts as a martial art. learning to fight as a hoplite counts, or using a sword. The human body works the same across cultures, and anyone who spent a lot of time fighting would have developed some form of martial art that they taught new warriors.
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Nov 4, 2022 20:43
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WoodrowSkillson posted:any type of martial training counts as a martial art. learning to fight as a hoplite counts, or using a sword. This exactly. I would always tell people looking for the "original" or whatever...Look, man, a punch is a punch. There were probably about a dozen "original" systems with tribal learning before we got anything written or even developed writing.
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Nov 4, 2022 21:28
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WoodrowSkillson posted:any type of martial training counts as a martial art. learning to fight as a hoplite counts, or using a sword. I mean, hoplite warfare is a funny one to bring up because the people who actually fought as hoplites were pretty dismissive of the idea that hoplite warfare involved any finesse or skill, talking about it much more as a matter of willpower . Like I guess if we're willing to be incredibly expansive about the idea of martial art I guess. That said in common English use a martial art is usually understood to be 1) close quarters 2) individual rather than formation 3) finesse. Like i guess nothing really stops us from treating 17th century firearm drills as a martial art but I think most english speakers would find that confusing.
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Nov 4, 2022 21:32
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I'd be interested in knowing what kind of fighting styles developed around the khopesh, personally. It was in use as a military weapon for over a thousand years, and it's got a rather distinctive shape, so a whole lot of brains must have applied themselves to figuring out the most effective ways of using it. To my knowledge there isn't any surviving manual-of-arms or any similar record relating to khopesh fighting.
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Nov 4, 2022 21:40
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Kylaer posted:I'd be interested in knowing what kind of fighting styles developed around the khopesh, personally. It was in use as a military weapon for over a thousand years, and it's got a rather distinctive shape, so a whole lot of brains must have applied themselves to figuring out the most effective ways of using it. To my knowledge there isn't any surviving manual-of-arms or any similar record relating to khopesh fighting. I'm pretty sure the always applicable basics of "yank away pointy end of spear and chop up terrified peasant" is just as applicable for a khopesh as it was for a xhiphos, longsword, dao or a katana.
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Nov 4, 2022 22:07
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But I'm not talking about the basics. The basics are that the khopesh can be used like a fancy axe, anyone can figure that out immediately on picking it up. But in the span of a thousand-plus years, you have to think that the generations after generations of warriors whose lives depended on using it would have come up with some more refined techniques than just "hack with the sharp part  "
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Nov 4, 2022 23:00
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Zopotantor posted:"Little fishes" - the only thing that I can think of is the Oh. I thought it meant fish asses, glad I didn't say that out loud and make me sound like a weirdo.
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Nov 5, 2022 16:29
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Kylaer posted:But I'm not talking about the basics. The basics are that the khopesh can be used like a fancy axe, anyone can figure that out immediately on picking it up. But in the span of a thousand-plus years, you have to think that the generations after generations of warriors whose lives depended on using it would have come up with some more refined techniques than just "hack with the sharp part
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Nov 5, 2022 19:32
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Nessus posted:I believe Prince Ali al-Bhagwah developed some techniques with strong effect. Legend says he fought a hundred [swordsmen]. His song was my favorite in Aladdin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEryAoLfnAA
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Nov 5, 2022 22:10
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Pyramids: built by drafted freemen or slaves - and why?
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Nov 9, 2022 14:28
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A core of paid permanent specialists who lived next to the pyramids supported by temporary conscript laborers The differences in ways of life between then and now make those terms kind of fizzy imho
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Nov 9, 2022 14:39
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As Euphronius says, there was a core of paid professional specialists, but corvee labor is the most accurate description for the majority of the laborers.
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Nov 9, 2022 15:04
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Yeah and 'corvee' labor sounds scary and ominous because it's a french word, but as far as we can tell, at least in Sumeria and Egypt it was seasonal work between harvest and planting and the workers were paid in food & staples. The pre-revolution French corvee system was not nearly as fair and generous.
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Nov 9, 2022 15:27
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Tias posted:Pyramids: built by drafted freemen or slaves - and why? The framing of that question is a little off, since the dichotomy of people either being completely free or completely unfree is does not apply well to Egypt (or the broader ancient Near East). In Old Kingdom Egypt (c. 2600-2000 BC, when the Great Pyramids were built), there were very few full time, chattel slaves (as in people kept in slavery in the way that slaves in the American South were). However, there were a variety of levels of limited freedom that people might have on control of their labor/body. In the Old Kingdom, taxes were assessed collectively on communities, usually in grain, but they could also be in the form of labor demands. An article with more details about this: https://escholarship.org/uc/item/8mx2073f
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Nov 9, 2022 15:57
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Tias posted:Pyramids: built by drafted freemen or slaves - and why? They were built by fremen.
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Nov 9, 2022 15:59
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Tias posted:Pyramids: built by drafted freemen or slaves - and why? 1. Yes 2. Because they weren't going to build themselves
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Nov 9, 2022 16:01
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Tias posted:Pyramids: built by drafted freemen or slaves - and why? Wow. This alien erasure will not stand.
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Nov 9, 2022 16:05
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CrypticFox posted:The framing of that question is a little off, since the dichotomy of people either being completely free or completely unfree is does not apply well to Egypt (or the broader ancient Near East). In Old Kingdom Egypt (c. 2600-2000 BC, when the Great Pyramids were built), there were very few full time, chattel slaves (as in people kept in slavery in the way that slaves in the American South were). However, there were a variety of levels of limited freedom that people might have on control of their labor/body. In the Old Kingdom, taxes were assessed collectively on communities, usually in grain, but they could also be in the form of labor demands. This largely covers the bases of anything I was going to say lol. It's especially worth noting that the Old Kingdom (when the pyramids were largely built) is a time with a lot of linguistic fuzziness. There are not a ton of surviving sources, and a lot of stuff that we as 21st century nerds want to know is exactly the stuff that people didn't write down because they figured anybody reading it knew it already.
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Nov 9, 2022 17:03
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Iirc the professional worker town in Giza was only recently found and analyzed
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Nov 9, 2022 17:05
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Crab Dad posted:Wow. This alien erasure will not stand. "We learned many things from the mighty Egyptians, such as pyramid building, space travel, and how to prepare our dead so as to scare Abbott and Costello."
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Nov 9, 2022 18:18
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Mad Hamish posted:"We learned many things from the mighty Egyptians, such as pyramid building, space travel, and how to prepare our dead so as to scare Abbott and Costello." I knew it!
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Nov 9, 2022 18:24
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Alhazred posted:They were built by fremen.
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Nov 9, 2022 19:11
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Alhazred posted:They were built by fremen. Blessed be the Maker and his pyramids.
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Nov 10, 2022 01:54
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Crab Dad posted:Wow. This alien erasure will not stand. Alien slaves.
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Nov 10, 2022 08:32
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Alien slaves. Conscripted corvee aliens.
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Nov 10, 2022 08:47
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24 new Etruscan statues have been found, including some of a new god. https://twitter.com/Ignasi_Adiego/status/1590441413824909312
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Nov 10, 2022 09:28
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I would like to travel back in time to tell some Etruscans that no one in our time has heard of Havens. Their minds would be blown.
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