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What is the most powerful flying bug? This poll is closed. |
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| 🦋 |
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15 | 3.71% |
| 🦇 |
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115 | 28.47% |
| 🪰 |
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12 | 2.97% |
| 🐦 |
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67 | 16.58% |
| dragonfly |
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94 | 23.27% |
| 🦟 |
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14 | 3.47% |
| 🐝 |
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87 | 21.53% |
| Total: | 404 votes | ||
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mlmp08 posted:That’s not true. I’m not sure where you are getting that idea. In fact, the US gov has been messaging pretty plainly that high risk moves by Ukraine are absolutely not required to maintain support and may be detrimental. did you miss the whole news report about "US advises taking Kherson is prerequisite for negotiation?"
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Nov 10, 2022 15:46
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speng31b posted:did you miss the whole news report about "US advises taking Kherson is prerequisite for negotiation?" Biden's a Paradox gamer and just has a strong pretty borders policy. I support him in his struggle against border gore.
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Nov 10, 2022 15:49
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speng31b posted:did you miss the whole news report about "US advises taking Kherson is prerequisite for negotiation?" that is true now. But before autumn the us line on kherson was not particularly positive for ukrainian chances there
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Nov 10, 2022 15:51
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speng31b posted:did you miss the whole news report about "US advises taking Kherson is prerequisite for negotiation?" There is a big difference between stating the fact that holding Kherson strengthens the holder’s negotiating position and demanding that Ukraine take Kherson before winter as it’s “do or die” for them. The US position, since months ago when US was publicly downplaying Kherson and suggesting its capture is unnecessary, consistently been that Ukraine has support for months/years and does not have to show its homework ASAP to maintain support. It’s been a talking point ITT that the Ukrainians are foolishly attacking and pushing back Russian forces in order to get media buzz for the west, but that isn’t really required for US support. Might be required for some other countries, I don’t know. Look at what I said was plainly untrue: Frosted Flake posted:What kills me is the entire western media was saying London and DC demanded Ukraine take Kherson before winter, it was do or die for Kiev, and Russia gave it up without a fight. The other reason it’s not true: Russia did not give it up without a fight. For a couple months they’ve been in a fight for control of Kherson and its supply lines. Russia lost that artillery and logistical battle, so they’re apparently not choosing to stick around for more or a close combat battle. Russia has an opportunity to deliberately withdraw and preserve forces instead of losing in a more haphazard way later by being emotional about it.
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Nov 10, 2022 15:55
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Tanky cope is insane. Don't overdo it. Jesus. These people are mentally ill (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 10, 2022 15:56
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im not going to get into it over whether the US saying "taking Kherson is a prerequisite for negotiations" constitutes pressuring them into anything, it just seemed like you were ignoring the very obvious recent piece of evidence in the news that backs up what FF is saying if you two have different interpretations of what that means im sure you'll post about it for many pages
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Nov 10, 2022 16:03
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speng31b posted:im not going to get into it over whether the US saying "taking Kherson is a prerequisite for negotiations" When did the US say that? I guess I did miss this statement by the US government. Google is failing me, can’t find any such statement. mlmp08 has issued a correction as of 16:07 on Nov 10, 2022 |
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Nov 10, 2022 16:05
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starting to mald this morning
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Nov 10, 2022 16:07
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is it possible that al saqr was right mr putin, please don't do this to me
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Nov 10, 2022 16:08
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say a prayer for all the civvies left behind, they'll need it when the azovites come
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Nov 10, 2022 16:08
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Btw the Ukrainians have been taking heavy casualties in Kherson, it is ironic though since it is artillery they ultimately won the battle for them. There have been multiple waves of assaults that achieved nothing. The campaign was ultimately successful but that doesn’t mean every battle went well. Ardennes has issued a correction as of 16:13 on Nov 10, 2022 |
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Nov 10, 2022 16:09
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https://mobile.twitter.com/rybar_en/status/1590713223959187456 https://mobile.twitter.com/rybar_en/status/1590713228384141314 https://mobile.twitter.com/rybar_en/status/1590716622607880192 He goes on to suggest Russia keeps leaving behind heavy equipment like this because everyone's afraid to take responsibility for blowing it up so it just kind of gets left behind if it can't be withdrawn.
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Nov 10, 2022 16:09
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speng31b posted:US saying "taking Kherson is a prerequisite for negotiations" Tried searching for that quote, but no luck finding it in the news or US statements. This is the closest I could find, which is not a US state dept rep, but a pretty high ranking guy: quote:Milley said it’s possible the Russians will use the retreat to reset their troops for a spring offensive, but “there’s also an opportunity here, a window of opportunity for negotiation.” Is this what you are talking about? I assume not, because it says something completely different from your quote.
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Nov 10, 2022 16:11
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Dr Kool-AIDS posted:
lmao
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Nov 10, 2022 16:11
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spacetoaster posted:Tanky cope is insane. Don't overdo it. Jesus. These people are mentally ill I think it’s because I’m middle eastern I am used to seeing people in various conflicts go through the cope cycle still it’s sad/interesting to see it happen to other people. this is why if you don’t have a direct physical or emotional connection to this type of stuff your energy and time is much better spent making yourself happier. also I’ll say it again and again, any socialist who thought Russia winning would advance any sort of leftism or anti-imperialism is a loving moron, this was a fight between two far right countries, full stop.
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Nov 10, 2022 16:11
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Doktor Avalanche posted:is it possible that al saqr was right it wasn’t just possible, it was inevitable. I am the shore upon which reality breaks.
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Nov 10, 2022 16:13
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mlmp08 posted:When did the US say that? I guess I did miss this statement by the US government. https://news.yahoo.com/us-nato-see-peace-talks-133400350.html https://www.google.com/amp/s/english.pravda.ru/amp/news/world/154702-russia_ukraine_talks/ quote:The United States and NATO countries acknowledge negotiations on the crisis in Ukraine may start should the Ukrainian forces capture Kherson, La Repubblica said. https://english.nv.ua/nation/us-and-nato-see-peace-talks-between-ukraine-and-russia-only-if-ukraine-liberates-kherson-50282205.html quote:The United States and NATO see the start of peace talks between Ukraine and Russia only if Ukraine’s army takes control of Kherson, the battle for which has both strategic and diplomatic significance, Italian newspaper La Repubblica wrote on Nov. 7. speng31b has issued a correction as of 16:25 on Nov 10, 2022 |
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Nov 10, 2022 16:15
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Al-Saqr posted:also I’ll say it again and again, any socialist who thought Russia winning would advance any sort of leftism or anti-imperialism is a loving moron, this was a fight between two far right countries, full stop. So you have been posting in this thread for months and still think this is about two right-wing countries not liking each other?
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Nov 10, 2022 16:17
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Ardennes posted:So you have been posting in this thread for months and still think this is about two right-wing countries not liking each other? it’s not that simple obviously but Russia winning does as much to advance socialism as Ukraine winning does, which is zero. both countries are right wing reactionary regimes and obviously Ukraine is pretty disgusting with its embrace of ethno nationalism and nazism. obviously russia responded to nato expansionism and they have their own reasons, but that doesn’t make them a side I wanna hitch any wagons to emotionally or ideologically, also it’s pretty clear Russia doesn’t really view this conflict as existentially all that important given how they’ve performed and what decisions they made.
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Nov 10, 2022 16:22
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dk2m posted:being a nationalist has got be the most embarrassing thing in the world
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Nov 10, 2022 16:22
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stephenthinkpad posted:The US think tanks are basically spending half of their time talking about it now (post Pelosi visit), so its easier for me to talk about this subject without getting banned. lol libera.
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Nov 10, 2022 16:24
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nationalism is really embarrassing and stupid but it’s not as embarrassing as how the left and socialists haven’t come up with an effective way of killing that cancer yet, it’s a surprisingly effective and resilient thing for such a loving stupid concept.
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Nov 10, 2022 16:28
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I for one have been looking for ways to heroically spike the guns my whole career because no Canadian gun has ever been captured by the enemy*, and so staying behind to blow them is a guaranteed DSO.
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Nov 10, 2022 16:28
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Pistol_Pete posted:It's also hard to judge, when Russian objectives remain so opaque. We know that Ukraine 'wins' if they can force a Russian withdrawal but what does a Russian 'win' even look like? Regime change in Kiev? Complete occupation of the country? Partition? A peace treaty on Russia's terms, where Ukraine agrees devolution for majority Russian regions and commits to never joining NATO? Russian objectives are very simple, it's whatever they can get. Starting with regime change in Kyiv to full annexation of Ukraine. Regime change clearly didn't happen and now they're onto annexing parts of Ukrainian territory they can occupy right now.
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Nov 10, 2022 16:28
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Al-Saqr posted:
China is not far right
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Nov 10, 2022 16:30
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Al-Saqr posted:nationalism is really embarrassing and stupid but it’s not as embarrassing as how the left and socialists haven’t come up with an effective way of killing that cancer yet, it’s a surprisingly effective and resilient thing for such a loving stupid concept. Surprising that tribal apes are pretty loving tribal. News at 11.
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Nov 10, 2022 16:31
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Al-Saqr posted:I think it’s because I’m middle eastern I am used to seeing people in various conflicts go through the cope cycle still it’s sad/interesting to see it happen to other people. this is why if you don’t have a direct physical or emotional connection to this type of stuff your energy and time is much better spent making yourself happier. Any war which weakens the American empire is good for socialism.
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Nov 10, 2022 16:32
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lmao the source of the article in your link is a Ukrainian newspaper, who has a vested interest in defending the wisdom of the Kherson offensive and its costs. It's so lacking in context, even then. https://english.nv.ua/nation/us-and-nato-see-peace-talks-between-ukraine-and-russia-only-if-ukraine-liberates-kherson-50282205.html quote:The message the United States is sending Ukraine through Brussels is that if and when Kherson is regained, then negotiations can be started. For example, in this quote, it doesn't specify whether this alleged communication was meant to impart that the west would refuse to accept negotiations without Kherson (IMO, they would), or whether this is a judgment that Russia would be unwilling to negotiate if they still held Kherson throughout the winter into next spring offensive season. It also highlights that Zelenskyy said Russia refused to negotiate. This is not close to evidence that the US and UK demanded that Ukraine take Kherson before winter, or it's do or die for them. Especially when the claim was that "the entire western media" was reporting this, and now the evidence is a stub article of less than 200 words in a Ukrainian news site. The Ukrainian article points back at an Italian report, but that Italian report is behind a paywall. But here is what you can see without paywall in the Italian article: "Confidential relations between Washington and Brussels identify a short-term negotiation window: reach the banks of the Dnipro and push for a ceasefire from a position of strength" This does not show a demand from Washington and Brussels that Ukraine is ordered to take Kherson, it's an assessment that holding Kherson could open up the opportunity to convince Russia to enact a ceasefire. If this is the evidence reported by the entire western media that the west won't tolerate negotations of any sort without taking Kherson, oh boy Edit: I see you figured some of this out yourself, so sorry for responding after you went and found the source of the quotes. I think now we can both see it's nothing close to demands from the west that Ukraine not be allowed to negotiate without achieving western military goals.
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Nov 10, 2022 16:35
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euphronius posted:China is not far right it's far east
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Nov 10, 2022 16:35
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Ardennes posted:Admittedly, the Russians could take advantage of this if they actually pushed elsewhere on the field as they slowly withdrew in Kherson but does seem pretty extreme timidity, on their part. It is a good question as well as why they have treated the entire northern frontier as especially off limits which has given them few to none tactical options as Ukrainian forces are dug in everywhere else. They're not really treating it off limits. There's some kind of dealing going on with Lukashenko and Belarus. Because the Russian part of the northern border is a frontline and there's constant fighting around Belgorod region, even if it's on a smaller scale than the major offensives in this war. It is being kept out of the news for whatever reason though.
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Nov 10, 2022 16:35
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Al-Saqr posted:it’s not that simple obviously but Russia winning does as much to advance socialism as Ukraine winning does, which is zero. both countries are right wing reactionary regimes and obviously Ukraine is pretty disgusting with its embrace of ethno nationalism and nazism. obviously russia responded to nato expansionism and they have their own reasons, but that doesn’t make them a side I wanna hitch any wagons to emotionally or ideologically, also it’s pretty clear Russia doesn’t really view this conflict as existentially all that important given how they’ve performed and what decisions they made. this war is the first groundswell of a complete break from the US Treasury standard. Russia not only can’t be regime changed like Venezuela was by economic sanctions, they have competently managed the economic shocks and used diplomacy to shore up a Eurasian bilateral trade bloc using energy as the commodity. conversely, our own allies like Germany are meeting with China and acknowledging an emerging multipolar world that they don’t want to be left behind in. in this sense, leftists are living real time in what Nehru, Sukarno and Nasser could only dream of https://www.irishexaminer.com/world/arid-40881767.html https://www.aa.com.tr/en/russia-ukraine-war/at-least-a-dozen-countries-interested-in-joining-brics-russian-foreign-minister/2732749 https://m.economictimes.com/news/economy/policy/brics-explores-creating-new-reserve-currency/amp_articleshow/94628034.cms https://www.washingtonpost.com/busi...336b_story.html https://www.politico.eu/article/europe-us-anxiety-trade-economic-policy/amp/ militarily? lol, lmao, etc.
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Nov 10, 2022 16:38
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mlmp08 posted:I think now we can both see it's nothing close to demands from the west that Ukraine not be allowed to negotiate without achieving western military goals. yeah to be clear this is never something the US would say explicitly. The thing that is clear is Washington is sending a message about what it sees is the move that puts Ukraine in a "strong negotiating position". From a certain standpoint it's seen as putting pressure on Ukraine, and from another it's seen as urging them to be more open to negotiations given "some" set of conditions. It's been read and interpreted both ways by multiple sources picking up the story depending on their perspective.
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Nov 10, 2022 16:39
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dk2m posted:a Turkish reporter I follow has said this And LDNR troops are pushing into Ukrainian territory, good for you if you can figure out which side is winning because I can't 
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Nov 10, 2022 16:41
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Marenghi posted:Any war which weakens the American empire is good for socialism. rly sux for all those ukrainian and russian workers being conscripted to die in trenches tho
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Nov 10, 2022 16:41
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OctaMurk posted:rly sux for all those ukrainian and russian workers being conscripted to die in trenches tho "strikes are bad because what if the factory closes down and those people lose their jobs"
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Nov 10, 2022 16:42
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speng31b posted:yeah to be clear this is never something the US would say explicitly. The thing that is clear is Washington is sending a message about what it sees is the move that puts Ukraine in a "strong negotiating position". From a certain standpoint it's seen as putting pressure on Ukraine, and from another it's seen as urging them to be more open to negotiations given "some" set of conditions. If I say that the garden won’t grow unless it rains, I’m not ordering the plants to withhold their growth unless the sky gives me what I want.
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Nov 10, 2022 16:42
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gradenko_2000 posted:"strikes are bad because what if the factory closes down and those people lose their jobs" literally hundreds of thousands of ppl getting killed and maimed rn, this really the best analogy you can do?
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Nov 10, 2022 16:43
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Al-Saqr posted:nationalism is really embarrassing and stupid but it’s not as embarrassing as how the left and socialists haven’t come up with an effective way of killing that cancer yet, it’s a surprisingly effective and resilient thing for such a loving stupid concept. well if you, a non-leftist, ever figure out what to do, let us leftists know
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Nov 10, 2022 16:43
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Lostconfused posted:Russian objectives are very simple, it's whatever they can get. Starting with regime change in Kyiv to full annexation of Ukraine. Regime change clearly didn't happen and now they're onto annexing parts of Ukrainian territory they can occupy right now. *Putin and his cronies knocking back vodkas late at night at the Kremlin* "Screw it, let's just invade and see how it pans out!"
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Nov 10, 2022 16:43
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Al-Saqr posted:it’s not that simple obviously but Russia winning does as much to advance socialism as Ukraine winning does, which is zero. both countries are right wing reactionary regimes and obviously Ukraine is pretty disgusting with its embrace of ethno nationalism and nazism. obviously russia responded to nato expansionism and they have their own reasons, but that doesn’t make them a side I wanna hitch any wagons to emotionally or ideologically, also it’s pretty clear Russia doesn’t really view this conflict as existentially all that important given how they’ve performed and what decisions they made. I think a lot of people would disagree here and would say while Russia isn’t socialist, China is and if China succeeds they need Russia to be around in some form. NATO expansion isn’t also in China’s interest. Obviously, it would have been better for China if the Russians were remotely competent but they are also in many ways keeping them in the fight. The best resolution for China would be a limited victory for the Russians where they have secure their frontiers and ward off a greater US push. It is more or less a binary choice as in most conflicts at this point between the US and China. Lostconfused posted:They're not really treating it off limits. There's some kind of dealing going on with Lukashenko and Belarus. The fighting is still fairly small scale over there all things considered and the Russians generally need breakthroughs somewhere to keep the war going. Also, the situation in Belarus is a little bit vague but I think the Russians could gain access if they wanted it but they don’t seem particularly bothered.
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Nov 10, 2022 16:44
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