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30.5 Days posted:Also he fired a pretty key netcode engineer like 6-12 mo ago in a fit of pique and things have been having problems since. Netcode engineers are, for whatever reason, loving unicorns that everybody needs and nobody can find. Pretty important for an MMO. That suuuuux! The two mega-MMOs of the 3D era (EQ & WoW) have always been frank that their network people are top-flight and a huge part of making them stand out and win for so long to become the “two mega-MMOs!” Players generally don’t squash lag and duping-via-online exploits at all in those two; seems some newer game studios never even tried to hire the talent in the first place.
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Jan 26, 2022 13:21
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everquest's netcode was so good for its day (modem-era) that it is completely playable on an airplane wifi today.
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Jan 26, 2022 16:39
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cmdrk posted:everquest's netcode was so good for its day (modem-era) that it is completely playable on an airplane wifi today. I was able to play EQ on Dial up and other stuff. Part of it is that the world runs on 3 and 6 second ticks, so it needs a LOT less bandwidth vs say an FPS. To make things more fun the netcode is not encrypted (still?!?). The guys who made DDO talked about how hard it was to get the Netcode right. Things that work in a normal videogame stop working in MMOs for all kinds of reasons. Player Dodge for example has a lookback feature because from the players point of view they dodged the attack, from the server POV the attack connected. Assuming you want dodge to work at all you need the damage code to wait for a few CPU cycles to see if any player actions client side change the outcome. Game Dev netcode is known for being crazy amounts of spaghetti, but if you talk to the guys who make it, its that way because at design time no one would know you needed lookback on every damage role. Things get even more nuts when you talk about stuff like Unreal and how it were built for Single player. Many systems in the base engine are built around proximity to the player, most fixes basically are, set min proximity for full calculation to big number. This of course breaks the game in all kinds of other ways related to optimization. Imagine in WOW if you had to fix the simulation of a rat in Stormwind but send that data to a client in undercity for the game to not optimize the rat out of existence (because said rat, may or may not be eaten by a cat).
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Jan 26, 2022 17:55
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Kaysette posted:It’s the pet project of an actual MLM scammer. It’s hilarious. Hay, if I had stupid amounts of money, I might also fund an MMO based on the exact specs I want. I'd hate for my only claim to fame to be an MLM scammer.
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Jan 26, 2022 17:56
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30.5 Days posted:the juice guy is too much of a psycho to be a game industry executive I did not think such a thing possible.
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Jan 26, 2022 18:23
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Hra Mormo posted:I did not think such a thing possible. I think in the game industry, bosses can be cruel, they can create a lot of unnecessary chaos, and they can have no idea what the gently caress they're doing. You only have problems when you try to do all three at the same time.
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Jan 26, 2022 22:43
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cmdrk posted:everquest's netcode was so good for its day (modem-era) that it is completely playable on an airplane wifi today. everquest's netcode was so loose and forgiving that I used to raid as a cleric with ping measured in *thousands* I would have to cast my thing sometimes several seconds early just on the guess that the lag would resolve such that I cast it at the right time 54-man raids on 33.6k in 2005 because I was living in a rural area for college was not good
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Jan 27, 2022 02:27
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This thing died yet?
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Jun 13, 2022 16:36
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It’s actually had some pretty impressive tech demonstrations in the last few months. Seasons and Dynamic weather: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhvQEPuexjg Character creation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_PasE-_W6M I know it’s futile to have hope re: MMOs but it seems more likely that this will in fact be a launching video game one day.
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Jun 13, 2022 16:52
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I imagine they’d have an incentive to release something if they weren’t making so much money on prerelease mounts and packs. Maybe when that business slows (if ever) they can release their game, but as we’ve seen with Star Citizen I don’t have any hope for a pre-2025 release.
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Jun 13, 2022 23:42
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Why do the player models always look like they were added in post? Nothing looks like it fits together visually in this game.
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Jun 16, 2022 16:46
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The game lacks any real style, honestly can’t tell where the UE5 assets stop and the original stuff begins.
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Jun 16, 2022 17:59
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MMOs are bad and designed to take money from broke brains
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Jun 16, 2022 18:24
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BadLlama posted:MMOs are bad and designed to take money from broke brains no u but seriously they are. 
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Jun 16, 2022 18:24
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Ad by Khad posted:everquest's netcode was so loose and forgiving that I used to raid as a cleric with ping measured in *thousands* Used to have to time my wizard nukes the same way, hoping I'd be below the aggro threshold by the time the spell went off. "Start your cast at X percent" was always iffy even on 56K.
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Jun 17, 2022 19:22
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I got excited for this watching the recent videos. Thanks to all good goon historians for the reminder that this cosmetic hype train has been on rails since 2017. See you at launch.
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Jun 18, 2022 02:33
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Why is it when I look up the CEO on LinkedIn there is no mention of Everquest in his work history? Just this new company founded to make Ashes of Creation.
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Aug 18, 2022 08:58
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Before that he was an MLM scammer so you might say he's been making mmos his whole career. Juice mmos
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Aug 18, 2022 13:23
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Massively marketed orange refreshing potable grift
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Aug 18, 2022 13:27
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jestest posted:I got excited for this watching the recent videos. Thanks to all good goon historians for the reminder that this cosmetic hype train has been on rails since 2017. Alpha 1 for this indicates that they at least have a game loop, and recent videos showcasing the new hybrid combat system look promising. I don't really care about the owner's personal history or how they choose to make money as long as the game comes out with most of the features they've outlined. I'm cautiously optimistic.
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Sep 1, 2022 20:26
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Howard Beale posted:Used to have to time my wizard nukes the same way, hoping I'd be below the aggro threshold by the time the spell went off. "Start your cast at X percent" was always iffy even on 56K. I remember as a rogue having to “guess” when to backstab a moving mob, because a ping of 1+ seconds could make you sneak/hide through the mobs in Runnyeye which would aggro them and knock you out of stealth. WoW was the same, except stealth was one button/skill instead of two, and I did this in PvP BGs with a 1+ second ping as well!
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Sep 23, 2022 21:16
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Space Monster posted:Alpha 1 for this indicates that they at least have a game loop, and recent videos showcasing the new hybrid combat system look promising. I don't really care about the owner's personal history or how they choose to make money as long as the game comes out with most of the features they've outlined. I'm cautiously optimistic. Kickstarter MMORPGs might as well be a scam. The issue is that you can't Kickstarter for the amount you need to make the game (at least not in a reasonable situation)- So pretty much all development up until a certain threshold is just content that is built to gain more pledges / investors. They do this loop-de-loop several times over until you finally can develop the game "for real" and in an amount of time that would be considered reasonable (like for example from the start of the UE5 switch, 4 years from there- And that's assuming they hit the money on everything from this point on.) All that said though I think that Ashes is looking good but I am skeptical like the rest of us that it's going to come out in any reasonable time frame. Good news is we don't need to put any skin in the game and can wait for people to say that A2/beta/Release is fun before even jumping in. Let the spergs waste all their money on cosmetics. Speaking of which- if you are a sperg who likes to waste all your money on cosmetics, feel free to help me out by signing up using my referral link: https://ashesofcreation.com/r/1Z9GDANCVN6FZGTS
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Sep 26, 2022 03:56
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I will remain cautiously optimistic for this one but my wallet will stay stuffed in my b-hole for now.
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Sep 26, 2022 23:50
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BadLlama posted:I will remain cautiously optimistic for this one but my wallet will stay stuffed in my b-hole for now. Yeah, I am hoping they’ll pull it off…but I’m not buying stuff for a game that isn’t even out yet. I will happily pay for a game, a subscription, and even the occasional cosmetic from a real money cash shop! From a finished game, of course. I played both EQ and WoW day 1, in the days before all quests and gear were datamined in beta. But I’m not paying one cent for a game that isn’t done yet.
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Sep 27, 2022 00:18
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DerekSmartymans posted:Yeah, I am hoping they’ll pull it off…but I’m not buying stuff for a game that isn’t even out yet. I will happily pay for a game, a subscription, and even the occasional cosmetic from a real money cash shop! Both of those games, while not "done" had huge teams pumping out content and watching the populations to make sure things were going right. By the time of a Beta the games were close to "done". This is not going to be the case with AOC
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Sep 27, 2022 03:02
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PyRosflam posted:Both of those games, while not "done" had huge teams pumping out content and watching the populations to make sure things were going right. By the time of a Beta the games were close to "done".  Also, Kickstarter wasn’t invented yet…so no “kickstarted MMO” vibes were around.
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Sep 27, 2022 12:45
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I think the "next big mmo" that doesn't have a infinity dollar budget will be something that goes back to the roots of text-based and graphicless or bare-bones graphics (like curated AI art backdrops to the text) We're at the point where everything old is new again, judging by re-re-makes of everything that already happened 30+ years ago, so why not a high quality text-based mud?
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Sep 28, 2022 13:48
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Ra Ra Rasputin posted:I think the "next big mmo" that doesn't have a infinity dollar budget will be something that goes back to the roots of text-based and graphicless or bare-bones graphics (like curated AI art backdrops to the text) A lot of the old MUDs are still online. Aside from the few people who wanna go super old school the demand for text based MUDs is really low. But you are on to something here. You really do not need WoW levels of armor and gear, you can take WoW classic level graphics, mix in some really iconic ideas for what a persons progression should look like (Leveling, dungeon Crawler, Raider) and I think you have something. Even better if your goal is to build a world over trying to do what later xpacs did in WoW in making everything about the player.
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Sep 28, 2022 15:33
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The bottom line is that interesting MMOs can't coexist with a standard AAA 3d asset pipeline. I think evercraft or whatever it's called doing minecraft graphics is a pretty good way to solve the problem, wonder how that will turn out.
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Sep 28, 2022 21:36
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PyRosflam posted:
Yeah they never figured that out. The net code in all the turbine mmos is kind of awful but it was the worst in ac2 and ddo
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Sep 29, 2022 09:48
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So is Lazy Peon being paid to shill, or just not very vigorous in his research, or what? Because he called the founder an "entrepreneur" when he was in fact engaged in MLM. I feel like the founder being a literal scam artist should make it into your videos speculating on the possible successful realization of the game.
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Nov 10, 2022 19:43
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Yeahhh he keeps doing hype videos and it seems very forced now that development has seemingly stagnated
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Nov 10, 2022 19:55
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It's frustrating because I specifically went to his channel just to see what might be on the horizon in the long term, I'd never really heard of AoC beyond maybe catching the name in passing, and left his latest videos pretty excited (for something I knew was uncertain and years away). Then I come here, see other people remarking that the alpha videos don't look bad actually, but THEN see the last few pages that paint a much worse picture. So maybe he wants to believe, or he's being paid, or he's just a lot better at PLAYING a game than doing journalistic research on them. Whatever the reason, it's disappointing. The encapsulation of the MMO experience??
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Nov 10, 2022 20:05
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I mean to speak specifically about the scamming CEO, I think many people know about that, but with this game in particular the amount of crowd funding versus self funding from the company is tilted way into the self funding aspect, so if he is just scamming people its losing his own money or wealthy rear end venture capitalist. Do not buy the early access packs is about all there is to this one. If you paid into the crowdfunding then you know, good luck.
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Nov 10, 2022 20:25
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BadLlama posted:I mean to speak specifically about the scamming CEO, I think many people know about that, but with this game in particular the amount of crowd funding versus self funding from the company is tilted way into the self funding aspect, so if he is just scamming people its losing his own money or wealthy rear end venture capitalist. I stupidly bought Alpha 2 access years ago - I cant even remember exactly when, but it wasnt too long after they opened it up. Im that guy - the idiot that paid into fantasy star citizen.
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Nov 10, 2022 21:14
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so is anything actually playable? how does it compare to say, Camelot Unchained where I get spammed with a beta patch notes google doc once a week and servers are ostensibly up over the weekend?
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Nov 10, 2022 21:24
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Jack B Nimble posted:So is Lazy Peon being paid to shill, or just not very vigorous in his research, or what? Because he called the founder an "entrepreneur" when he was in fact engaged in MLM. I feel like the founder being a literal scam artist should make it into your videos speculating on the possible successful realization of the game. My understanding is the AoC guy was in an MLM when he was 18 selling this stuff called Xango. My mom was in that same MLM (and every other MLM lol). It was basically all about selling fruit juice and signing up others to sell fruit juice. They had some dumb story about how it was made from berries that some tribe used to eat to make them swole and healthy or some nonsense. He made some of his money early on doing that, but most of his money was made in stocks and real estate. Anyways, I think this game will definitely launch and it might be kind of cool, but probably not because there hasn’t been a good MMO since EverQuest which also wasn’t a good MMO.
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Nov 11, 2022 23:56
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Thanks for the context. I'm still troubled by the reports of poor leadership and losing talent but that doesn't mean I couldn't be wrong about this.
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Nov 12, 2022 00:04
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Jack B Nimble posted:reports of poor leadership and losing talent Sounds like it's going to be a typical MMO launch then!
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Nov 12, 2022 01:19
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Kaysette posted:Yeahhh he keeps doing hype videos and it seems very forced now that development has seemingly stagnated When you have a channel built literally on MMOs and MMOs have been dead for like 10 years then you do what you can. I can't really blame him for covering something that doesn't have too much news, but either way, I'm also excited about the possibilities of ashes of creation. I can definitely see some problems involved in development and everything else, but at the same time it's really is the only one that even looks tolerable within the near future.
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Nov 12, 2022 06:06
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