War in Ukraine: thread feedback session open unttil Saturday (i'll regret this)

The Something Awful Forums > Archives > Comedy Goldmine > The Goodmine > War in Ukraine: thread feedback session open unttil Saturday (i'll regret this)

«‹›275 »

Deteriorata: Feb 6, 2005

Outside Kherson, abandoned clothes, food and ammunition are signs of a hasty Russian withdrawal.

quote:

BLAHODATNE, Ukraine � In the villages west of Kherson, there were signs of a hasty Russian retreat and faltering efforts to slow the Ukrainian advance on Friday.

Ukrainian soldiers explored one abandoned Russian base, in a warehouse in the village of Blahodatne, poking through heaps of clothes, books and canned goods.

Russian military uniforms were crumpled in a heap on the floor of a sleeping area. The beds had been left rumpled. Clothes dried on a clothesline.

Nearby, a warehouse was packed with green wooden boxes of hundreds of rounds of abandoned Russian mortar ammunition. Some shells had been laid out on the warehouse floor, the detonators already screwed into the explosives, prepared to be fired quickly.

�They left in a hurry,� said Serhiy, a private who asked that only his first name be made public, according to Ukrainian military protocol. �They were preparing to shoot us with this ammunition, but they didn�t have time.�

Dmytro, another private, said, �They left without a fight.�

Through the day on Friday, Ukrainian military vehicles rolled past the village, moving eastward under a low, overcast sky along the main M14 highway, leading toward Kherson.

Remnants of the long battle for the city were seen on the road into villages reclaimed by Ukraine on Wednesday.

Along the highway, birch trees had been felled by artillery, telephone cables slumped onto the road and the metal guardrails were twisted and perforated with shrapnel. .

Occasional distant thuds from artillery were heard, possibly fired from Russian positions on the eastern bank of the Dnipro River. But Ukrainian media officers said that fighting was still raging a few miles from the city of Kherson. It was not immediately possible to independently verify the claim.

To the west, in Blahodatne, a small cluster of brick houses surrounded by fields on the open steppe, residents said that the Russians had withdrawn quietly overnight Wednesday to Thursday.

�There was no fighting, they left peacefully,� Yevgenia Khaidayeva, 82, said of the Russian pullback from what had been a defensive line to the northwest of Kherson city, passing just outside Blahodatne.

On Friday, a man who residents said was a local schoolteacher drove a motorcycle festooned with two Ukrainian flags, which fluttered as he sped about the village roads, honking and cheering �Glory to Ukraine!�

Not everyone was in a buoyant mood. Vadim Slabodyanyuk, a school security guard, stood leaning on a bicycle and blankly watching the Ukrainian soldiers pass by in trucks.

His mother and his father had been killed in artillery shelling from the Ukrainian Army during fighting over the spring and summer, he said. �And I buried them both under shelling� in the local cemetery, he added. He said it was difficult to accept that his own country�s forces had fired into his village.

Locals described a sense of slumping morale in the Russians stationed in their village, going back months.

Maria Akimona, 73, a retired milkmaid, recalled that over the summer, a Russian soldier had told her that he had a 1-year-old son and that he had said, �I won�t see him taking his first steps.�

She added, �I asked him what he was doing here, and he said he didn�t understand.�

# ? Nov 12, 2022 00:58

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 23, 2024 15:44

Flavahbeast: Jul 21, 2001

KitConstantine posted:

What is the fate of the 'king of the rain'?
https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1591114586891194368?s=20&t=h3JQsZrsydgMj4_Phz64jg

♪ it's his destiny to be the king of rain ♪

# ? Nov 12, 2022 01:03

Vincent Van Goatse: Nov 8, 2006; Enjoy every sandwich.; Smellrose

Chalks posted:

https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1582861415500873729

That's one hell of a salient they're making themselves in the northwest there.

# ? Nov 12, 2022 01:16

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

Chalks posted:

We may be in for some interesting footage of the areas that were being hit with artillery during the retreat last night, I don't think we've seen what state the docks are in or the staging areas for the ferries and pontoon bridges. That said, footage of Russian soldiers calmly walking across the pontoon bridge this morning is the best evidence I've seen yet that it was not a rout.

A good thread from DefMon here about what a successful retreat by Russia means for the wider war

https://twitter.com/DefMon3/status/1591192952923369472

Very good thread indeed. Unroll for convenience: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1591192952923369472.html

# ? Nov 12, 2022 01:19

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

Charliegrs posted:

I counted something like 10 or 11 HIMARS here. Isn't that like the majority that Ukraine has?

Also it's amazing how well some people can geolocate things based on very little photo/video evidence so I feel like any Ukrainian taking videos of HIMARS is seriously risking giving up their locations.

No. Ukraine has 38 M142 (6 tubes each) and 14 M270 (12 tubes each). 11 M142 therefore works out to 1/6 of �GMLRS firepower� they have. Also there�s no way in hell that�s a meaningfully recent video.

Crosby B. Alfred posted:

What's going to be next after Kherson?

With winter approaching, is everyone just going to hunker down? I am suspecting that for November and December things will slow as the terrain won't be ideal, but can't we expect things to pick up once the ground freeze are units are equipped for winter?

On another note, do we think we'll actually see a huge Spring push from Russia once all the new recruits are trained and equipped? I'm having a hard time seeing that with all the morale and equipment problems.

There�s going to be a roughly 2-month period from mid-January until mid-March where they can try something on a reasonably solid ground.

# ? Nov 12, 2022 01:24

gay picnic defence: Oct 5, 2009; I'M CONCERNED ABOUT A NUMBER OF THINGS

Crosby B. Alfred posted:

It really seems to me that Putin is quickly running out of options, and this is quickly becoming one enormous sunk cost fallacy.

I think the only realistic option he has is to hold on and hope that a lack of gas causes Europe to pressure Ukraine into accepting something that can be passed off as a win in Russia. After that? There's not much left by that point.

Early spring next year could well be a major inflection point in the war because this is when it will become apparent that Europe has made it through and further pressure on energy markets is unlikely to help Russia's cause. The question then becomes whether Russia is willing to engage in a forever war against a near-peer opponent while suffering sanctions, incurring long term (potentially permanent) economic damage, and facing political backlash at home.

# ? Nov 12, 2022 01:33

mllaneza: Apr 28, 2007; Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952

Crosby B. Alfred posted:

On another note, do we think we'll actually see a huge Spring push from Russia once all the new recruits are trained and equipped? I'm having a hard time seeing that with all the morale and equipment problems.

Russia will have numbers, but Ukraine also has reserves to call up. They're also in better shape than Russia to train them effectively, both at home and with help of NATO countries. Add in the double morale boosts of defending their homes and the fact that they're winning right now, and Ukraine will have a large number of well-trained and highly motivated troops coming on line outfitted with quality gear. Russia has none of these advantages and is going to be in real trouble on the front line when the snow starts.

Honestly, time is starting to favor the Ukranians. This winter will be bad for Russia, but if the war is still going on when the Spring mud dries, they're getting steamrolled.

# ? Nov 12, 2022 02:00

Tuna-Fish: Sep 13, 2017

gay picnic defence posted:

I think the only realistic option he has is to hold on and hope that a lack of gas causes Europe to pressure Ukraine into accepting something that can be passed off as a win in Russia.

The thing is, Europe can't do that. As in, is literally unable to. So long as Poland and the US keep the support up, Ukraine can at least stay in the fight. Laws that have already been passed make sure that US can keep up the support to the end of FY23, and I don't think there's much of a risk of Poland faltering either.

And so when you know that acting in one way cannot result in the outcome you seek, might as well go the other way and hope that increased support will result in a shorter war.

# ? Nov 12, 2022 03:13

fez_machine: Nov 27, 2004

mllaneza posted:

Honestly, time is starting to favor the Ukranians. This winter will be bad for Russia, but if the war is still going on when the Spring mud dries, they're getting steamrolled.

I wouldn't be so optimistic, it's far more likely it'll be grinding attritional fighting especially once Ukraine starts hitting the more established defensive lines from 2014, no matter how low morale or poor the equipment/training gets for the Russians.

# ? Nov 12, 2022 03:20

gay picnic defence: Oct 5, 2009; I'M CONCERNED ABOUT A NUMBER OF THINGS

Is there likely to be an uptick in US aid now the midterms are out of the way and Biden doesn't have to worry quite so much about domestic political blowback if Russia starts rattling the nuke sabre again?

I very much doubt they want to head into the presidential election with this war still going on and upping the ante with lethal aid would likely bring it to a faster conclusion.

# ? Nov 12, 2022 03:43

Djarum: Apr 1, 2004; by vyelkin

gay picnic defence posted:

Is there likely to be an uptick in US aid now the midterms are out of the way and Biden doesn't have to worry quite so much about domestic political blowback if Russia starts rattling the nuke sabre again?

I very much doubt they want to head into the presidential election with this war still going on and upping the ante with lethal aid would likely bring it to a faster conclusion.

I am not sure if there is going to be an uptick but there likely won't be a degrade. We will see what both the House and Senate look like which will likely still dictate how much support can be pushed through. Although giving Ukraine support is popular on both sides so I don't see it drying up anytime soon.

# ? Nov 12, 2022 04:23

saratoga: Mar 5, 2001; This is a Randbrick post. It goes in that D&D megathread on page 294

"i think obama was mediocre in that debate, but hillary was fucking terrible. also russert is filth."

-randbrick, 12/26/08

fez_machine posted:

I wouldn't be so optimistic, it's far more likely it'll be grinding attritional fighting especially once Ukraine starts hitting the more established defensive lines from 2014, no matter how low morale or poor the equipment/training gets for the Russians.

Getting to the 2014 borders (arguably winning the war) this spring is already very optimistic. I think it would be safe to say the Russians have been steamrolled if they're fighting in Melitopol this spring, not all the way to Donetsk.

# ? Nov 12, 2022 04:26

Budzilla: Oct 14, 2007; We can all learn from our past mistakes.

mllaneza posted:

Russia will have numbers, but Ukraine also has reserves to call up. They're also in better shape than Russia to train them effectively, both at home and with help of NATO countries. Add in the double morale boosts of defending their homes and the fact that they're winning right now, and Ukraine will have a large number of well-trained and highly motivated troops coming on line outfitted with quality gear. Russia has none of these advantages and is going to be in real trouble on the front line when the snow starts.

Honestly, time is starting to favor the Ukranians. This winter will be bad for Russia, but if the war is still going on when the Spring mud dries, they're getting steamrolled.

To add to this, Russia trains its troops by sending in the new recruits to the unit they will be deployed to, not some specialised base to learn their skills. This is a problem when your BTG is fighting a war and they have lost a lot of their trained soldiers already.

# ? Nov 12, 2022 04:40

Charlz Guybon: Nov 16, 2010

https://twitter.com/HeerJeet/status/1591285656462176257

# ? Nov 12, 2022 06:26

Somaen: Nov 19, 2007; by vyelkin

I think this is some sort of nazi neopagan symbol that Zaluzhny is showing again out in the open, is this what you support, libs?

https://mobile.twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1590688574961520640

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ? Nov 12, 2022 09:15

spankmeister: Jun 15, 2008

Tuna-Fish posted:

The thing is, Europe can't do that. As in, is literally unable to.

Unable to make it through the winter, or unable to pressure Ukraine? I think you mean the latter but I wasn't sure.

# ? Nov 12, 2022 10:08

Bug Squash: Mar 18, 2009

spankmeister posted:

Unable to make it through the winter, or unable to pressure Ukraine? I think you mean the latter but I wasn't sure.

Europe is low-key in the middle of a fairly amazing heat anomaly. It's like a mild summer day at the moment, but it's November, so few people are turning on the heating. This won't last obviously, but it's given time to mitigate the looming heating crisis when winter does arrive. It's incredible good luck for Ukraine and Europe both, and means what hope Russia had to freeze Europe to submission is largely gone.

# ? Nov 12, 2022 10:30

cant cook creole bream: Aug 15, 2011; I think Fahrenheit is better for weather

Bug Squash posted:

Europe is low-key in the middle of a fairly amazing heat anomaly. It's like a mild summer day at the moment, but it's November, so few people are turning on the heating. This won't last obviously, but it's given time to mitigate the looming heating crisis when winter does arrive. It's incredible good luck for Ukraine and Europe both, and means what hope Russia had to freeze Europe to submission is largely gone.

Yeah, Germany is still at like 99% gas capacity. They literally can't buy any Russian gas right now even if they wanted to. I and many others haven't even turned the heating on this fall, due to high gas prices.

# ? Nov 12, 2022 11:01

notwithoutmyanus: Mar 17, 2009

Bug Squash posted:

Europe is low-key in the middle of a fairly amazing heat anomaly. It's like a mild summer day at the moment, but it's November, so few people are turning on the heating. This won't last obviously, but it's given time to mitigate the looming heating crisis when winter does arrive. It's incredible good luck for Ukraine and Europe both, and means what hope Russia had to freeze Europe to submission is largely gone.

This is obviously global climate change, as we all fully know. The problem is usually the additional side effects, where we may have an extra cold or extra long winter. So that (I would haphazard a guess?) is maybe an unknown factor in how the latter would be handled? I would hope having more time as you note secures the rest, to keep Europe safe enough to survive.

# ? Nov 12, 2022 11:11

Failed Imagineer: Sep 22, 2018

Flavahbeast posted:

♪ it's his destiny to be the king of rain ♪

♪ There's a blue-and-yellow flag in Kherson today♪

# ? Nov 12, 2022 11:14

Nenonen: Oct 22, 2009; Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa

notwithoutmyanus posted:

This is obviously global climate change, as we all fully know. The problem is usually the additional side effects, where we may have an extra cold or extra long winter. So that (I would haphazard a guess?) is maybe an unknown factor in how the latter would be handled? I would hope having more time as you note secures the rest, to keep Europe safe enough to survive.

The European Centre for Medium-Range Weather Forecasts (ECMWF) just gave their forecast that in Finland December-February period would be two degrees Celsius warmer than average.

# ? Nov 12, 2022 11:51

notwithoutmyanus: Mar 17, 2009

Nenonen posted:

The European Centre for Medium-Range Weather Forecasts (ECMWF) just gave their forecast that in Finland December-February period would be two degrees Celsius warmer than average.

Welp, I'm completely wrong then. Guess that would also work out, which is good.

# ? Nov 12, 2022 11:55

Hannibal Rex: Feb 13, 2010

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/nord-stream-pipeline-explosion-dark-ships

Nord Stream update:

quote:

Once it gathered archive images of the area, SpaceKnow created a series of polygons around the gas leak sites. The smallest of these, around 400 square meters, covered the immediate blast area, and larger areas of interest covered several kilometers. In the weeks leading up to the explosions, SpaceKnow detected 25 ships passing through the region, from �cargo ships to multipurpose larger ships,� Javornicky says. In total, 23 of these vessels had their automatic identification system (AIS) transponders turned on. Two did not have AIS data turned on, and these ships passed the area during the days immediately ahead of the leaks being detected.

# ? Nov 12, 2022 11:59

spankmeister: Jun 15, 2008

Bug Squash posted:

Europe is low-key in the middle of a fairly amazing heat anomaly. It's like a mild summer day at the moment, but it's November, so few people are turning on the heating. This won't last obviously, but it's given time to mitigate the looming heating crisis when winter does arrive. It's incredible good luck for Ukraine and Europe both, and means what hope Russia had to freeze Europe to submission is largely gone.

Yeah I know, I live there.
I was just a tad confused by Tuna-Fish's post, which is probably just me misinterpreting them, but the source of my confusion was the fact that Europe will highly likely make it through the winter relatively unscathed, since all the gas storage is almost at max capacity.

# ? Nov 12, 2022 12:00

Zedsdeadbaby: Jun 14, 2008; You have been called out, in the ways of old.

It is extremely fortuitous, I live in the UK where we can apparently only store 3 days' worth of gas at a time, and I am still going to (blue collar) work in shorts and a shirt. Normally the heating would be on and we'd be going out with scarves, gloves, that kind of thing. It still feels like September.

edit: not to take away from the fact that this is unfortunately ultimately a major climate catastrophe

Zedsdeadbaby fucked around with this message at 12:21 on Nov 12, 2022

# ? Nov 12, 2022 12:17

Blut: Sep 11, 2009; if someone is in the bottom 10%~ of a guillotine

cant cook creole bream posted:

Yeah, Germany is still at like 99% gas capacity. They literally can't buy any Russian gas right now even if they wanted to. I and many others haven't even turned the heating on this fall, due to high gas prices.

EU gas storage capacity is at 95%+ as of today and still (very slowly) climbing thanks to this very well timed, continent wide, long autumn heatwave.

Thats beyond even the most wildly optimistic estimates from earlier in the year. The original stated goal was to have capacity hitting 80% in mid-October before it started to be used/go down.

# ? Nov 12, 2022 12:27

Nothingtoseehere: Nov 11, 2010

Also, it's not just climate change. Europe still has the capacity for very cold winters, climate change just nudges the odds.

Like, if there was a 5% chance of a winter this warm in 1980, it's now a 10% chance. That doesn't mean Europe hasn't got lucky hitting that 10%, even if the range is larger.

# ? Nov 12, 2022 12:33

Paladinus: Jan 11, 2014; heyHEYYYY!!!

Apparently gas consumption in Europe is down 22% this year, mostly thanks to regular households.

# ? Nov 12, 2022 12:34

spankmeister: Jun 15, 2008

Paladinus posted:

Apparently gas consumption in Europe is down 22% this year, mostly thanks to regular households.

Because prices spiked wildly, people started to be more frugal. Also energy-heavy industries like fertilizer production and aluminum smelting just stopped.

# ? Nov 12, 2022 13:08

Charlz Guybon: Nov 16, 2010

https://twitter.com/oryxspioenkop/status/1591388780963168256

# ? Nov 12, 2022 13:12

Pookah: Aug 21, 2008; 🪶Caw🪶

I'm in Ireland and yeah, we still haven't needed to turn the heating on - normally, we'd have it on low from around mid September, but it's still pretty mild.
I'm sitting in a room with the window open, and the thermostat is telling me it's 16.6c/62f.

# ? Nov 12, 2022 13:16

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

Paladinus posted:

Apparently gas consumption in Europe is down 22% this year, mostly thanks to regular households.

I haven't needed to turn the heat on so far at all. It's warmer than normal plus of course more expensive so...

Our office also decided to lower the thermostat temperature from the usual 24 (I think? haven't been there in a while) degrees.

# ? Nov 12, 2022 13:23

The Question IRL: Jun 8, 2013; Only two contestants left! Here is Doom's chance for revenge...

As a counter point, yes it has been much h milder this winter. But I still need to turn the heating on.
Even outside of the fact that our central heating heats the water for the showers, and we have a solid fuel stove for the living room, we still put the heat on for maybe two hours a day just to make it warmer.

But this is down from a really cold winter where we'd have the central heating on for 5-7 hours a day.

People I talk to do (almost brag) about not turning the heating on, but let's not pretend you have to conserve heating oil like it's bullets in a Resident Evil game.

# ? Nov 12, 2022 13:48

Blut: Sep 11, 2009; if someone is in the bottom 10%~ of a guillotine

The Question IRL posted:

People I talk to do (almost brag) about not turning the heating on, but let's not pretend you have to conserve heating oil like it's bullets in a Resident Evil game.

If someone is part of the poorest 20% of society struggling to put food on the the table then thats literally what they have to do, every extra euro spent on heating is a euro less available for food/rent.

# ? Nov 12, 2022 14:12

Just Another Lurker: May 1, 2009

Pookah posted:

I'm in Ireland and yeah, we still haven't needed to turn the heating on - normally, we'd have it on low from around mid September, but it's still pretty mild.
I'm sitting in a room with the window open, and the thermostat is telling me it's 16.6c/62f.

Up in Co. Antrim here and i'm the same, windows open with standard gray skies outside and living room is 18c.

# ? Nov 12, 2022 14:21

jarlywarly: Aug 31, 2018

Thank god for the gulf stream

# ? Nov 12, 2022 14:23

Scratch Monkey: Oct 25, 2010; 👰Proč bychom se netě�ili🥰kdy� n�m P�n Bůh🙌🏻zdrav� d�💪?

fez_machine posted:

I wouldn't be so optimistic, it's far more likely it'll be grinding attritional fighting especially once Ukraine starts hitting the more established defensive lines from 2014, no matter how low morale or poor the equipment/training gets for the Russians.

One wonders how maintained those positions are now and what�s sort of equipment and mat�riel are left to support it

# ? Nov 12, 2022 14:25

Tuna-Fish: Sep 13, 2017

spankmeister posted:

Unable to make it through the winter, or unable to pressure Ukraine? I think you mean the latter but I wasn't sure.

The latter. The weather co-operated (global warming was useful for once lol) and this delayed the beginning of heating season enough that the eu is now fine until next winter.

# ? Nov 12, 2022 14:31

Moon Slayer: Jun 19, 2007

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/11/11/ukraine-sbu-traitors-russia-kharkiv/

quote:

KHARKIV REGION, Ukraine � The hunt for Ukrainians helping the Russians led the intelligence investigators to an idyllic village with a house on a hill, where the father of an accused traitor lives.

The man knew they wanted to talk about his son, Sergey, who was in jail awaiting trial for allegedly passing information to Russian forces on where Ukrainian soldiers and weapons were located in the city of Chuhuiv � a hotbed of military activity in the northeast Kharkiv region. Ukraine�s main internal security service, the SBU, considers Sergey an agent for one Russia�s special services, perhaps the FSB.

�I�ll be honest, boys,� the father told the officers, �in the first days, I was passing coordinates to my guys.�

But in a country where loyalties can be twisted, were his guys the Russians or the Ukrainians?

Even amid a war in which Moscow has targeted Ukrainian civilians and caused countless deaths, Russia has been able to recruit Ukrainians to aid its invasion. Sometimes it�s through blackmail. Sometimes it�s through payoffs. And sometimes Ukrainians are simply sympathetic to their country�s enemy � be it because of Soviet nostalgia or shared Russian language and ethnic identity.

Weeding out those moles and saboteurs is the SBU�s job. Officers from the counterintelligence department of the highly secretive agency recently allowed Washington Post journalists rare access to their daily work, which includes going into recently liberated villages and conducting what�s called �filtration� � interviewing locals about what happened under occupation and who might have collaborated with the Russians. At times, they are so close to the front line they up fighting alongside Ukrainian soldiers.

While the Ukrainian military fights the foreign foe in front of them, the SBU counterintelligence department�s main task remains looking inward for enemies � sometimes even within its own ranks.

In July, President Volodymyr Zelensky replaced the agency�s director after several senior officers were arrested and branded traitors. One such mole was recently uncovered in the Kharkiv office after he allegedly informed Russian security services about the time and place of a planned meeting between the Kharkiv mayor, the local SBU chief and the commander of Ukraine�s 92nd Mechanized Brigade � a high-value target for an airstrike.

�It�s hard to get used to it, even though it�s what we do every day,� said an SBU officer who asked to be identified by his call sign, Advokat, which means �lawyer.�

�You think how much damage this activity has caused � how many children, civilians, soldiers, brothers and sisters died and were injured because of it,� Advokat said. �How many were left without families and homes and forced to leave? When you remember that, it motivates you to expose the traitors as much as possible and bring them to justice.�

In a room at a downtown Kharkiv detention center, Sergey, the man facing treason charges for revealing the location of Ukrainian military bases, sat on a small stool and fiddled with his hands. Sergey agreed to an interview with The Post on condition that his surname not be used, but Advokat and prison guards remained in the room. Sergey admitted to sending screenshots of Google maps, with some spots circled, to a Russian cellphone number.

Sergey�s family lives in small villages near the town of Balakliya, a part of Kharkiv region that Russian forces occupied in the first days of the war. After his sister told him that Russian soldiers had stolen money from their father, Sergey said, he complained to a neighbor about being worried for his family�s safety. The neighbor gave him a Russian number to call and explain the situation, Sergey said. So, he did.

His father�s money was returned a month later, Sergey said. Then, Sergey received a message from the Russian number offering to �work together.� Sergey said he refused.

�The next day, they wrote that they know where my parents are,� he said. �They said that this is a war and anything can happen. And like this, they blackmailed me.�

The SBU counterintelligence department divides Ukrainians who work with the Russians into different categories. Those like Sergey, recruited while living in territory controlled by Ukraine, are considered agents. The most valuable agents are those with access to information, such as moles within the SBU or other government agencies. They are the hardest to expose, Advokat said, because they understand how the SBU operates and can better cover their tracks.

Then, there are collaborators: Ukrainians who cooperate with or help the Russians in occupied areas. But even those people are split into their own ranks. Some have pro-Russian views and eagerly aid the occupiers, for example, by revealing who in town served in the Ukrainian military. But there are others Advokat referred to as �invertebrates� � people bending to survive under difficult conditions.

When the Ukrainian military recaptures a city or town, SBU officers are the first ones in after them to begin the filtration process � weeding out the collaborators through interviews with locals, checking people�s phones and other means.

In early September, after Ukrainian forces expelled Russian troops from most of the Kharkiv region, Advokat and his colleagues entered the city of Kupiansk on the same day as the advancing soldiers.

The Russians had used the city as the seat of their regional occupation government, so the SBU officers went first to the abandoned local administration building. Inside, they found a list of people who had worked with the Russian-controlled authorities. The Russians retreated so fast, they had left it behind.

�There was so much work that we spent several nights there,� Advokat said.

In the Kharkiv region, which borders Russia and is predominantly Russian-speaking, both agents and collaborators are widespread. Many residents traveled to Russia frequently for work or still have relatives living there.

�You cannot suspect everyone,� Advokat said. �But over time, a certain professional deformation occurs when you start to suspect everyone.�

Sergey�s father was also a suspect. If the son had passed information to the Russians, maybe the father also helped the soldiers occupying his village. Speaking to the man outside his home, Advokat began a preliminary interview. The goal was to persuade him to come with them for a more formal interrogation back at their office. The father is not being identified because of risks to his safety and because he has not been charged.

Sergey�s father then told Advokat that he had been passing coordinates of Russian troops to someone in the SBU, even giving Advokat his contact�s first and last name.

�How did the Russian forces behave themselves?� Advokat asked him.

�You could say they were even respectable,� the father answered, speaking in Ukrainian.

�Did they steal from you?�

�Yes.�

�But you just said they behaved respectably,� Advokat responded, raising his voice.

The father then said Russian soldiers made some attempts to rape his wife, too, which earned another sarcastic response from Advokat about the man�s initial appraisal of the occupiers. He told Advokat that another soldier later came and gave him 50,000 rubles, about $820, and apologized for his colleagues who stole from him. For Advokat, that confirmed an exchange of money took place for Sergey�s services.

�How could I have not taken the money?� the man said. �Then they would�ve said that I was against them and would�ve done something else to me.�

After his village was liberated by Ukrainian troops in September, Ukrainian forces posted an air-defense system and an M142 High Mobility Artillery Rocket System, known as HIMARS, near his home. The father even kept the shrapnel pieces from an airstrike the Russians delivered then.

Coincidentally, it was information on that very type of equipment�s whereabouts in Chuhuiv that his son had allegedly passed to the Russians.

The father told Advokat that he was a patriot who hated what his son had done and he agreed to come in and give the SBU his statement later in the week. Outside his home, he and his wife allowed the SBU officers to inspect their phones, and Advokat said there didn�t appear to be anything suspicious. But Advokat refrained from making a judgment. There was still more to investigate � with this case and countless others.

�I will tell you honestly, he is my son, but he took five years off my life,� the man told Advokat.

�Why five years?� Advokat asked.

�Well, it�s this war, you know,� he answered. �I can�t stand to go through this again. I don�t want to see this filth. I can breathe freely now � and then I couldn�t breathe, believe me.

�I�m sorry,� the father added finally. �May God help you.�

# ? Nov 12, 2022 14:54

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 23, 2024 15:44

cgeq: Jun 5, 2004

jarlywarly posted:

Thank god for the gulf stream

Unfortunately global warming makes it more likely to collapse.

# ? Nov 12, 2022 14:56

The Something Awful Forums > Archives > Comedy Goldmine > The Goodmine > War in Ukraine: thread feedback session open unttil Saturday (i'll regret this)

«‹›275 »