|
OG Duals are one turn slower than lands printed at common in recent sets. One extra turn in a low power deck isn't gonna change much. I'd argue fetches are a step up in power over duals in that scenario.
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2022 20:51
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 18:25 |
|
|
AlternateNu posted:Vial Smasher/Sakashima I recently built a focused casual version of this abusing Affinity and Delve and holy poo poo is it a lot of fun. Can confirm.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2022 20:58
|
|
|
Batterypowered7 posted:Quoting myself here, and looking at you Toshimo, since you went through the thought exercise of thinking of a more casual deck when the one Goon was talking about his playgroup letting you start with three basics in hand. What are commanders (or commander pairs) you guys like that do powerful things that would lend themselves well to the above restrictions? Winota doesn't seem like she loses much under those rules beyond some fast mana to get her online early (nor stax generally though obviously you'll want to change up what lock pieces you use a bit) same with a lot of the more borderline commanders who often win through the combat step - Edgar Markov or Krenko for example, or voltron commanders like Light-Paws (who really only loses unecessary nice-to-have Serra's Sanctum, and that might even be a consideration for a price exception [which the original rules occasionally had for fun stuff like Wheel despite its post 2020 price spike]) Prosper also is a great value engine commander that can do a lot of fun things (including "fairer" alternate win things you can set up like Revel in Riches and Hellkite Tyrant) Yuriko is also probably still worth a look - free counterspells and tutors were a large part of its plan so losing those hurts a lot, but its got a robust + resilient non-combo plan, the free counterspells are also a lot less necessary than they were, and since it doesn't rely on busted mana or high $$$ cards to do its thing it can likely be adapted successfully not sure if the gameplay patterns would be great but the Edric/Tatyova extra turns decks also don't lose much of critical importance (free countermagic, some mana acceleration, and capture of jingzhou as an option, but all are less important than they would be in the absence of those rules) LGD fucked around with this message at 22:18 on Nov 11, 2022 |
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2022 22:06
|
|
|
Batterypowered7 posted:Been on a Play to Win kick lately and they had their own personal casual rules in a couple of videos: I was thinking Magus Lucea Kane, untap effects, and Jaya's Immolating Inferno to make very large but finite kabooms. Or Fascination or Drown in Dreams to mill everyone out, but it's 40 life vs. 93 cards. Zaxara gets Exsanguinate but a less relevant trigger to X spells.
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2022 00:48
|
|
|
Those rules were so ambiguous that I went looking for clarification; I found this video where they explain their rules and it did not help. I kind of think that concepts like "loops"/"infinites" and "'i win definitely right now' cards"/"instant-win combos" are impossible to really codify well. If you try to make it rigorous, you'll leave out lots of corner cases, and if you try to keep it loose, you'll eventually start an argument as to what counts and what doesn't. Hell, I'm not even 100% sure what "unconditional tutor" means.
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2022 01:29
|
|
|
DontMockMySmock posted:Those rules were so ambiguous that I went looking for clarification; I found this video where they explain their rules and it did not help. Cards that's don't say "search your deck for a card of a specific type" like Demo Tutor, Diabolic Intent, Vampiric Tutor, and Imperial Seal. Also, I imagine an I-Win combo is just like Thoracle/Lab Man/Jace, where you win on the spot. Infinites are probably stuff like Kiki-Jiki or Heliod/Ballista, maybe Malcolm and Glint-Horn? E: Felidar Sovereign or getting enough life to Aetherflux Reservoir the table or something is probably fine under those constraints. Batterypowered7 fucked around with this message at 01:40 on Nov 12, 2022 |
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2022 01:36
|
|
|
Batterypowered7 posted:Cards that's don't say "search your deck for a card of a specific type" like Demo Tutor, Diabolic Intent, Vampiric Tutor, and Imperial Seal. it definitely is quite a bit more ambiguous and (deliberately) tending towards non-competitive commander in being intent-based (i.e. you should try to win via reasonably "honest" magic in either the attack step or through combos that are inconsistent/slow/able to be disrupted without resorting to free countermagic), which is a problem if you want everyone to be on the same page when putting decks together outside a specific local understanding (which you do) while "infinite" is probably capable of being accurately defined (anything that lets you loop game actions an arbitrary number of times for advantage) both "unconditional tutor" and "instant-win" combo definitely have some pretty clear gray areas with "unconditional tutor" it's clear something like demonic tutor qualifies, but does something like demonic consultation or tainted pact? (which obviously matter quite a bit specifically) presumably so (and playing both presumably falls afoul of having a tutorable instant-win combo) but it'd be good to have a firm definition of what attributes do/do not make something sufficiently "conditional" and similarly with "instant-win" combo it'd be good to have clarity on things like whether alternate win-cons count and whether the "instant" means "that turn" or "in a single instance" (easy example of issues at play: can a Magda deck play a Hellkite Tyrant in the 99 or not?)
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2022 02:28
|
|
|
Batterypowered7 posted:Cards that's don't say "search your deck for a card of a specific type" like Demo Tutor, Diabolic Intent, Vampiric Tutor, and Imperial Seal. I'm just sayin', if they (or you) mean "cards that search a library for any card" then they should say "cards that can search a library for any card". Batterypowered7 posted:Also, I imagine an I-Win combo is just like Thoracle/Lab Man/Jace, where you win on the spot. For "instant win" stuff, if what they mean is Thoracle et al, then it's probably easier to just ban the few specific cards they mean than to try to codify it as a general rule; there are only 29 cards in Magic that say "you win the game" on them and they probably only want to ban 4 (Thoracle, Lab Man, Jace, and Approach of the Second Sun). But yeah, it wasn't at all obvious from your post or from the video if this is what PTW meant. Batterypowered7 posted:Infinites are probably stuff like Kiki-Jiki or Heliod/Ballista, maybe Malcolm and Glint-Horn? There are no actual infinities in Magic: the Gathering (outside of silver-bordered-land). Stuff like Malcolm and Glint-Horn doesn't even involve doing things an "arbitrarily large" number of times or anything like that, because it stops when your opponents die. "No loops" is approaching a sensible rule, but it leaves out stuff like, say, taking an arbitrary number of extra turns. Of these rules, this is the biggest one that is going to start arguments. What they really mean overall is "no combos that are Too Good," but what exactly "too good" means is going to vary from person to person. If you're playing with friends, this is something you can sort of feel out together over time; for example, my EDH group has long since gone through this and now I don't play my Reveillark deck anymore lmao. I point these ambiguities because, if you're playing with a close friend group, you don't need rules like this to play casual edh; on the other hand, if your intent is to create a set of rules that you can use to define a "casual edh" format for others who aren't part of your regular playgroup (including e.g. people in this thread who might contribute deck ideas), then you need to actually define things.
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2022 02:29
|
|
|
Actual infinites in Magic end the game, like making Caged Sun a land so it triggers itself, indefinitely.
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2022 02:54
|
|
|
Those rules do not appear to rule out gruesomely punishing stax hell decks, therefore,
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2022 04:25
|
|
|
lmao won my first match with the gates deck with the mazes end win condition. Stole a gate with agent of treachery to get to 10 gates.
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2022 04:31
|
|
|
Simone Poodoin posted:lmao won my first match with the gates deck with the mazes end win condition. Stole a gate with agent of treachery to get to 10 gates. *Chef kiss*
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2022 04:36
|
|
|
Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:Actual infinites in Magic end the game, like making Caged Sun a land so it triggers itself, indefinitely. I do not understand this at all 
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2022 04:44
|
|
|
Johnny Truant posted:I do not understand this at all Caged Sun's last ability triggers when a land makes mana. If it's a land, and it makes a mana, it keeps triggering forever, forcing a draw.
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2022 04:50
|
|
|
Toshimo posted:Caged Sun's last ability triggers when a land makes mana. If it's a land, and it makes a mana, it keeps triggering forever, forcing a draw. Huh. I've just read that card like five times and that still doesn't seem right to me, doesn't by it saying "one or more mana" mean that it would only add +1? I'm definitely an inexperienced player compared to you cats though so  Fake edit: ohhhhhh I see now it's cause of the wording of "adds" okay I got it thank you!
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2022 04:56
|
|
|
Johnny Truant posted:Huh. I've just read that card like five times and that still doesn't seem right to me, doesn't by it saying "one or more mana" mean that it would only add +1? It’s templated as a trigger rather than a replacement effect so it could trigger itself. Usually such effects are replacements.
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2022 05:00
|
|
|
I just feel like banning the specific cards the group has a problem with is a much more elegant solution. I'm sure we can all agree that a massive ban list sucks but when the alternative is to have these giant discussions about "format intent" where everyone has their own opinion, it would be much easier to just add ~40 cards to the banlist and be done with it. It gets to a point where six piece jank infinites are less egregious than Craterhoof or Dockside.
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2022 05:11
|
|
|
LanceKing2200 posted:I just feel like banning the specific cards the group has a problem with is a much more elegant solution. I'm sure we can all agree that a massive ban list sucks but when the alternative is to have these giant discussions about "format intent" where everyone has their own opinion, it would be much easier to just add ~40 cards to the banlist and be done with it. I agree that some judicious banning of a few dozen cards is a better solution for curbing the power of stax, too-good tutoring, fast mana, etc., but not so much for combos in general. There's just too many.
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2022 06:25
|
|
|
LanceKing2200 posted:It gets to a point where six piece jank infinites are less egregious than Craterhoof or Dockside. The fact that you imply Craterhoof is an “egregious” wincon is testament to how…different…people’s perceptions of EDH are.
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2022 14:09
|
|
|
I'd rather play against someone that says "ok I played these two cards and if you don't counterspell one of them then you all lose." than play against stacks where the wincon is that I just quit out of boredom after four hours while the rest of the pod is playing on their phone
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2022 14:41
|
|
|
Making an angel tribal deck is so goddamn hard. The 4 or 5 CMC slots are so glutted that it's impossible to get a decent curve that doesn't just cut the angels down to 15 or so with the rest of the deck just being ramp and support.  I want angels to be like zombies where you can reasonably just make every slot in the deck a zombie creature or tribal support card and it would still come together reasonably well. Fix yourselves, WotC!
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2022 14:51
|
|
|
AlternateNu posted:Making an angel tribal deck is so goddamn hard. The 4 or 5 CMC slots are so glutted that it's impossible to get a decent curve that doesn't just cut the angels down to 15 or so with the rest of the deck just being ramp and support. I’ll post my list later. Granted I’ve only tested it once but did fairly well (in a casual game). Mine is mono white angel tribal with Giada as commander and I basically treated it as an aggro deck, like flying white goblins.
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2022 14:54
|
|
|
Simone Poodoin posted:flying white goblins. *sighs and opens cardconjurer and artstation*
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2022 14:57
|
|
|
Simone Poodoin posted:I’ll post my list later. Granted I’ve only tested it once but did fairly well (in a casual game). Mine is mono white angel tribal with Giada as commander and I basically treated it as an aggro deck, like flying white goblins. This one is W/b Akroma/Falthis doing dumb keyword soup stuff since most angels have at least two. So, I'm obliged to add all the Firja support from Kaldheim which only makes it harder.
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2022 15:27
|
|
|
AlternateNu posted:The fact that you imply Craterhoof is an “egregious” wincon is testament to how…different…people’s perceptions of EDH are. I just mean it in the fact that if your goal is to soft-force a battlecruiser meta where most games are won in combat, you're gonna see Crafterhoof/Triumph of the Hordes wins a LOT.
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2022 17:53
|
|
|
DontMockMySmock posted:I agree that some judicious banning of a few dozen cards is a better solution for curbing the power of stax, too-good tutoring, fast mana, etc., but not so much for combos in general. There's just too many. This is why so many of the weird house rule lists you see will cap the number of loops on combos or give you some sort of penalty for an infinite loop. Even the people who care about banning these things generally seem to throw their hands up eventually and implement a rule that basically boils down to "we'll know it when we see it" The rules in that video don't have to be watertight though: they're clearly for a small group that plays together consistently and people trust each other to follow the intent of the rules. I think they could be ported to similar groups without problems. All attempts I've seen to enforce some level of casual play for an audience that will try to deliberately break it end up with the kinds of wild Google docs or whiteboards that get posted in here to be laughed at
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2022 21:03
|
|
|
Spanish Manlove posted:I'd rather play against someone that says "ok I played these two cards and if you don't counterspell one of them then you all lose." than play against stacks where the wincon is that I just quit out of boredom after four hours while the rest of the pod is playing on their phone Stax and instant wincons are usually the same deck.
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2022 22:44
|
|
|
MPC estimates my cards will be here by the 22nd so I bit the bullet and bought a few Ultra Pro acrylic deck boxes. They'll fit 100 double-sleeved proxies a little snugly, but they'll do the job. These look promising too for $3 a pop.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2022 01:05
|
|
|
Batterypowered7 posted:MPC estimates my cards will be here by the 22nd so I bit the bullet and bought a few Ultra Pro acrylic deck boxes. They'll fit 100 double-sleeved proxies a little snugly, but they'll do the job. These look promising too for $3 a pop. Why double sleeve proxies?
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2022 03:39
|
|
|
Reynold posted:Why double sleeve proxies? I just wanted to make them a little stiffer, and since I printed cards on both sides I thought it'd help keep them in better shape if I'm gonna be taking them in and out of the sleeves a lot.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2022 03:40
|
|
|
yep, plus it keeps the feel consistent with other decks you play and performs one of the same key functions inner sleeves do on real cards: protecting them from liquid spills/grime MPC cards are nice enough that they're worth keeping around as playing pieces even if they're not "real," and while you can obviously print more to order that's a hassle + non-trivial shipping expenses e: and from a cost perspective these may be ~$0.20 proxy cards or w/e, but KMC inners are like ~$0.03/sleeve or a little over $3 for a commander deck - that adds up over a large enough volume, but it's hardly a ruinously expensive level of decadence LGD fucked around with this message at 04:39 on Nov 14, 2022 |
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2022 04:32
|
|
|
I think I got 1000 inners (ten packs) for $27, so I'm set for a while. Just not gonna go hog wild and get perfect hards, lol. E: https://youtu.be/IJq_QCbgB2Q The Professor playing some pre-EDH E2: Lmao, Sheldon kills the table with an infinite loop. Double-lmao He didn't actually have the mana to do the infinite loop Batterypowered7 fucked around with this message at 22:38 on Nov 14, 2022 |
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2022 05:21
|
|
|
Batterypowered7 posted:I think I got 1000 inners (ten packs) for $27, so I'm set for a while. Just not gonna go hog wild and get perfect hards, lol. I love that Ced got in another episode. Him and his channel are great.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2022 03:51
|
|
|
Jiro posted:I love that Ced got in another episode. Him and his channel are great. I’ve got to hang out with the mana squad guys two weekends in a row and they are, indeed, all amazing people
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2022 05:38
|
|
|
Balon posted:I’ve got to hang out with the mana squad guys two weekends in a row and they are, indeed, all amazing people That's awesome! How was the MTGSummit con this past weekend, judging from some tweets it looked to be a slightly more enjoyable time than the event in Vegas.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2022 16:22
|
|
|
Jiro posted:That's awesome! How was the MTGSummit con this past weekend, judging from some tweets it looked to be a slightly more enjoyable time than the event in Vegas. I’ll do a full breakdown soon but overall it was a great event for a first time TO. Commander was the best way to enjoy the weekend and interact with people if that’s your thing. There were some hiccups but as a creator it was the best event I’ve ever been invited to, hands down.
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2022 00:27
|
|
|
Does anyone have finishing suggestions for this esper artifact deck. The mana base is not complete because I had really wanted to run red for asmo, and the two goblin welders but I walked myself away from that ledge. Plan A is to make tokens to sac for turns with time sieve. Plan B is sword of the meek/thopter combo and plan C is constructs beatdown. A store is shutting down near me and ideally I would be able to pick up a esper sentinel or some other high value cards for relatively cheap but I think it works as drawn up. Or at least there is enough redundancy in legendary creatures that the commander could be swapped.
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2022 01:09
|
|
|
MasterBuilder posted:Does anyone have finishing suggestions for this esper artifact deck. The mana base is not complete because I had really wanted to run red for asmo, and the two goblin welders but I walked myself away from that ledge. Plan A is to make tokens to sac for turns with time sieve. Plan B is sword of the meek/thopter combo and plan C is constructs beatdown. A store is shutting down near me and ideally I would be able to pick up a esper sentinel or some other high value cards for relatively cheap but I think it works as drawn up. Or at least there is enough redundancy in legendary creatures that the commander could be swapped. kind of depends how obnoxious you want to get with it + any implied restrictions/power level targetting (and I feel bad because I'm about to suggest a bunch of non-trivially expensive cards): Rhystic Study + Mystic Remora and the usual complement of good WUB tutors are obvious potential upgrades (and then the more expensive broken fast mana of course), but those cut into your creature/beatdown plan a fair bit Sensei's Diving Top is good with artifact etb effects and Bolas' Citadel and is worth consideration the deck would also probably like Displacer Kitten just as a value card (+then Teferi, Time Raveler and/or maybe Venser for the combos) if you're considering alternate commanders probably worth noting that Tivit plays better with your plan A than Urza does (since it's a one-card combo with Time Sieve as long as you've got 3 other players) Sevinne's Reclamation helps fight through getting your combos blown up and helps recover a lot of incidental stuff I'd really try to find room for Muddle the Mixture as it combines being a reasonable counterspell with tutoring for your A + B plans (and a couple hatebears) LGD fucked around with this message at 03:09 on Nov 16, 2022 |
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2022 02:29
|
|
|
Got Tocasia (in Arena) and wanna make a deck with her as Commander. Probably focusing on her Surveil and Vigilance. Also want to make one in papaer but that's gonna have to wait.
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2022 03:06
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 18:25 |
|
|
LGD posted:kind of depends how obnoxious you want to get with it + any implied restrictions/power level targetting (and I feel bad because I'm about to suggest a bunch of non-trivially expensive cards): No that's very useful. I was initially planning on doing a large mpc order but if I score deals I would prefer to do that.
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2022 03:39
|
|