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what's the simplest way as the Netherlands to annex the East Indies subject?
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Nov 13, 2022 11:35
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Diplomatic annexation of Puppets and the like is something I just can‘t get my head around. I‘ll probably have to read a tutorial on how diplomacy like that even works.
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Nov 13, 2022 12:01
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Mass migrations seem kind of wonky? I was playing Norway and decided I needed lead enough to invade the Swedish state next to my capital, which had lead mines that they weren't using anyway. Incidentally, it also had some of their most important industry for tools, paper and clothing. I took the state, started industrialising it heavier since it had tons of peasants that weren't doing anything productive, SoL rose significantly in the state along with my tax income and all was well. Integrated it and everything. For Sweden though this was very destructive to the rest of the country since they no longer had tools production to run their other industries, leading to them having to revert to the most basic production methods and utterly tanking the SoL in their remaining states. Several years after this I got a message popping up about a mass migration from Sweden to Norway happening, to the tune of hundreds of thousands of pops. Now, the problem is that this for some reason also included the Swedish pops living in the state I had conquered many years earlier which was now an important industrial hub of mine and which had the second highest SoL in the country. Like over 30% of the population migrating one state over to a state with lower SoL than the one they were living in, which cratered the industry in the state they left and caused mass unemployment in the one they arrived to and lowering the average SoL of all the states involved. I... don't think that's working as intended. Maybe pops should check their living conditions and what country they are already living in before deciding to mass migrate. *Edit*  Please stop, this is not going to end well for anyone involved. You're leaving a cushy factory job to become a peasant in the rainiest region of Norway, why would you do that!? AG3 fucked around with this message at 13:40 on Nov 13, 2022 |
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Nov 13, 2022 13:30
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AG3 posted:You're leaving a cushy factory job to become a peasant in the rainiest region of Norway, why would you do that!? pining for the fjords
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Nov 13, 2022 14:11
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I feel like, even before we go into wonky metagamed/Infamy-driven boundaries, national borders probably shouldn't matter for mass migration. When we talk about large migrations of the XIXth, surely we have to include urbanization, the portions of the Irish diaspora that ended up in Britain, and the settling of the American western frontier alongside the flow of European peasantry to the new world and German dissidents and then Russian minorities to the west. That said, the current migration target system attempts to produce that frontier and diaspora settlement by triggering based off of turmoil rather than raw SoL, and turmoil is currently really, really unavoidable--people will get het up into a panic flipping between say 14.9 and 15.0 SoL based on just the natural slop in the market system, and decide they have to mass migrate. And once they do, the bias towards undeveloped states sets in--it's supposed to represent long-term opportunity, but it has to be a really sloppy estimation of opportunity based only on land usage because the AI makes no effort to picture how somewhere would look post-development. That combines with the preference for places where they're not discriminated to produce some... strange internal targets. First up, turmoil needs to be dialed in a bit more, because turmoil is a good driver of a lot of the examples in a vacuum but the entire world seems to develop toward a fin-de-siecle Russian roil. Once that's done, I'd be interested to see pops looking at similar pops' relative rates of type and especially strata upgrade more than raw SoL to handle both urbanization and frontier settlement in relatively stable societies; what was the Jeffersonian dream that pushed Americans out to the prarie if not a promise that sure, staying a peasant or a laborer back home meant a higher immediate SoL, but out west they could tick over to farmer proper or even shopkeeper?
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Nov 13, 2022 14:52
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Magil Zeal posted:Apparently this happens when your GDP hits around 4.2 billion. ...it's an unsigned 32-bit int? They couldn't spring for longs?
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Nov 13, 2022 15:06
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KOGAHAZAN!! posted:...it's an unsigned 32-bit int? They couldn't spring for longs? Longs? In this economy?
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Nov 13, 2022 15:09
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And how likely are players to get ridiculously high numbers anyway?
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Nov 13, 2022 15:11
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Tahirovic posted:Diplomatic annexation of Puppets and the like is something I just can‘t get my head around. the way subjects work is simple but unintuitive if you're used to eu4 1. either make them a puppet through a war (which gives you infamy scaling with their population size) or go the extremely long route of bankrolling them to get their relations high and obtain obligations to put them in your customs union, then protectorate them for a small amount of non-scaling infamy, then wreck your relations back down below 20 and you'll get a "make puppet" diplomatic play you can use on them. in general i would only go through the peaceful protectorate process if you're worried about GP interference or if you don't want to eat the 30 infamy required for a tag like sokoto, and only if you're okay with unreliable results because various factors can make them basically never willing to submit and these can change over time 2. wait out the truce. keep your relations with them below 20, which is something you'll actively need to do because the puppet relationship automatically increases relations 3. fire off the "annex subject" diplomatic play on them and hope britain and/or france don't feel like loving with you
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Nov 13, 2022 15:28
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Are "vassals" different than "puppets?" I've finally successfully ended feudalism as Japan and it's time to get an empire but direct conquest costs so much infamy. Also the infamy limit must be a lot higher than 20 with these numbers, is it 100 or something? It cost me like 15 just to invade Hawaii.
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Nov 13, 2022 16:17
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Poil posted:And how likely are players to get ridiculously high numbers anyway? I get into the billions GDP in the 1900s fairly consistently
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Nov 13, 2022 16:20
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Crazycryodude posted:Are "vassals" different than "puppets?" I've finally successfully ended feudalism as Japan and it's time to get an empire but direct conquest costs so much infamy. 1k. After 100 the special war goal unlocks, and the AI likes to try and avoid that, but you can keep digging a lot further.
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Nov 13, 2022 16:26
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Jazerus posted:the way subjects work is simple but unintuitive if you're used to eu4 Thank you so much. That‘s the part that felt to weird to be right and got me confused.
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Nov 13, 2022 16:31
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Crazycryodude posted:Are "vassals" different than "puppets?" I've finally successfully ended feudalism as Japan and it's time to get an empire but direct conquest costs so much infamy. Vassals are the unrecognized equivalent of puppets. I think they only pay half as much tribute? Also they'll automatically convert to puppets if their overlord becomes recognized.
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Nov 13, 2022 16:41
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There is also a "merge territory" puppet play that requires high relations but does not seem to cause additional infamy. I don't remember the specific requirements. nor do I know how it interacts with vassalization because i uh haven't been using it
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Nov 13, 2022 17:03
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ItohRespectArmy posted:today I managed to annexed in multiplayer as NGF by bavaria, it was hilarious. cultural formations are very well done rn
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Nov 13, 2022 17:49
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Minor thing but I really wish there was more little flavor text in the game. You've got it for techs right now and that's about it, but it'd be great to have it for things like buildings, trade goods etc.
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Nov 13, 2022 17:59
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KOGAHAZAN!! posted:...it's an unsigned 32-bit int? They couldn't spring for longs? Or a double???
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Nov 13, 2022 18:04
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KOGAHAZAN!! posted:...it's an unsigned 32-bit int? They couldn't spring for longs? Yeah, there's a hell of a lot of things like that in the game right now. Playing as China you hit them a lot faster than anyone else, I imagine, but you run into scenarios where support for a group will crater to 0% because the pops in question have so much political power that they overflow into the negative billions. Also, there's a hard cap of 20 generals, even if you own half the world and have well over 4,000 soldiers that could otherwise be deployed. Thankfully admirals are a separate cap, it appears. On the bright side, there are a couple of mods that help with the overflow at the moment. The one I started using is https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2883846968 and it appears to fix some of the issues with population political power and the gold cap. Of course, even using a mod that cuts down the number of cultures (https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2884597379), and a mod that boosts assimilation (https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2884597379), I'm still getting some heinous late game slowdown, but I think in my case the issue is that I'm building something like 15,000 construction worth of things at once, and each building under construction affects the market prices of every other building. You see that in vanilla as well when you start to load the construction queue with a few hundred buildings in a row. On an unrelated note, I wonder how effective militarized police is, especially in conjunction with healthcare. My assumption is that the mortality per radicalism kills radical pops in the country, but with healthcare pushing down the mortality, I wonder if that gets canceled out.
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Nov 13, 2022 18:56
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I don't think I've seen it mentioned anywhere before, but there's a pretty annoying bug that causes variables to stop updating with the passage of time, and the game won't readjust the numbers until you save and reload. I've noticed it happen before with leader traits, as often they don't seem to activate when a politician is assigned a new role, but I was just playing as a newly independent Aotearoa (plus Australia) and saw the same thing happening with the throughput on my Admin buildings. My economy was mega-hosed and I had to set up a bunch of new trade routes, plunging me deep into the red (not helped by a total shortage of paper). After letting the game run for a while to sort out the trade routes, though, I noticed that my Bureaucracy was staying perfectly still, even though I didn't have a penalty for lack of paper anymore. A reload fixed it (500+ Bureaucracy popped out of thin air), but spending an extra half a year with 100% tax wastage hurt. No idea what causes the bug, but I hope Paradox has already identified it.  Also, it's not really a bug, but another annoying thing is the way sea routes for markets only have a single point of connection, or more appropriately, failure. The reason I went independent is because capitalists in Britain started a revolt, which apparently took the port that the entire British market ran through, and instantly caused every overseas state in the British market to plummet to 0% market connection, so I figured that I might as well drive my economy off the cliff anyway. KOGAHAZAN!! posted:...it's an unsigned 32-bit int? They couldn't spring for longs? Shades of every Madden game storing each team's score as an unsigned byte, preventing scores from going past 255.
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Nov 13, 2022 19:05
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Arrath posted:Are there better states to take than Egypt for securing Opium? fwiw, the Thai peninsula (Siam and its vassals, present-day Thailand/Laos/Cambodia) and Balochistan/Afghanistan/Uzbekistan are the other good places to grow opium, which makes sense because that's where most of it is grown today. It's still weird as poo poo that you can't grow it anywhere else in the world, especially Turkey. AG3 posted:Mass migrations seem kind of wonky? There are historical domestic mass migrations in this period, particularly the American move west, and the African-American migration from the south to the northern cities, prompted by the collapse of Reconstruction and the rise of Jim Crow laws. (Not that V3 handles Jim Crow or Reconstruction well, either.) It's hard because they should be a bit irrational? People moving west in the US were famously moving from poverty to poverty, but people probably need a bit more of a prompt to move than what we have now. Cease to Hope fucked around with this message at 21:38 on Nov 13, 2022 |
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Nov 13, 2022 21:31
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Just wanted to say that, playing with Portugal in 1911, my game practically froze (playing on a lovely computer, so it was already slow). But using the pop merging mod really helped and made the game playable (and I had no problem with starting using it mid game).
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Nov 13, 2022 21:48
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Average Lettuce posted:Just wanted to say that, playing with Portugal in 1911, my game practically froze (playing on a lovely computer, so it was already slow). But using the pop merging mod really helped and made the game playable (and I had no problem with starting using it mid game). Which mod is this? I think I’m missing something obvious on the steam workshop
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Nov 13, 2022 21:53
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I feel like a big missing component in the game is the downsides of industry. A lot of the tension in the industrial revolution came from cities and factories being pretty miserable places to live and work, as I understand it. In game, life in a city as a garment factory worker is just strictly better than life as a subsistence farmer, and the only reason factories create political tension is that peasants just don't care about politics.
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Nov 13, 2022 21:57
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buglord posted:Which mod is this? I think I’m missing something obvious on the steam workshop I think they mean Rapid assmiliation and conversion. It jacks up conversion and assimilation rates by 10x, so any tiny migrant pops should rapidly assimilate away.
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Nov 13, 2022 22:01
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buglord posted:Which mod is this? I think I’m missing something obvious on the steam workshop Good question, because I had trouble finding it. Staltran posted:I think they mean Rapid assmiliation and conversion. It jacks up conversion and assimilation rates by 10x, so any tiny migrant pops should rapidly assimilate away. Actually, I'm using Diaspora Cultures. I don't actually know if it would work better or not for performance, but: quote:This mod will assimilate all pop to diaspora culture (not your own primary culture), that satisfy the following conditions: Seems to work quite well and you still get the flavour of having different cultures on your provinces.
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Nov 13, 2022 22:14
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im sure their scripting language just defaults to int for numbers and so paradox didnt think this'd be an issue by 1862, the end of the game
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Nov 13, 2022 22:15
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Staltran posted:I think they mean Rapid assmiliation and conversion. It jacks up conversion and assimilation rates by 10x, so any tiny migrant pops should rapidly assimilate away. This is the one I'm trying right now. I'm still on my first game with it in 1866, but it does seem to run much faster.
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Nov 13, 2022 22:15
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AI mod really seems to help, as Mexico I just hit 1910 and I'm only the #1 producer in Automobiles, which the AI could never compete economically before
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Nov 13, 2022 22:33
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Cease to Hope posted:There are historical domestic mass migrations in this period, particularly the American move west, and the African-American migration from the south to the northern cities, prompted by the collapse of Reconstruction and the rise of Jim Crow laws. (Not that V3 handles Jim Crow or Reconstruction well, either.) The impoverished Swedes in Sweden migrating because their SoL was completely wrecked is understandable, but why would Swedes in Norway who were affluent do the same thing at the same time, and to the same place? Especially considering that this nice place where they had nice jobs and good SoL was their homeland. It's a moot point anyway because I reloaded the game and the next time the migration target was the state neighbouring the one I took instead of the next one over like the previous time, and since the mass migration also bleeds into the main target's neighbouring states it also bled into the sto... acquired Swedish state and cancelled out the exodus from that state, or most likely prevented it from starting in the first place. There are all kinds of ways you can rationalise it if you're willing to stretch things a bit, but I'd be surprised if it is intended. AG3 fucked around with this message at 23:19 on Nov 13, 2022 |
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Nov 13, 2022 23:16
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megane posted:I feel like a big missing component in the game is the downsides of industry. A lot of the tension in the industrial revolution came from cities and factories being pretty miserable places to live and work, as I understand it. In game, life in a city as a garment factory worker is just strictly better than life as a subsistence farmer, and the only reason factories create political tension is that peasants just don't care about politics. From the game's perspective, there's not much to drive enclosing and other circumstances in a fashion described in Formation of the English Working Class or Peasants to Frenchmen. Tbqf, this also has to do with players wanting to perform well and having enough awareness of history to do the stuff that countries didn't/couldn't do hmph, you know what, this might be interesting to check out. I'm going to fool around with an extractive economy while I try the assimilation mod By the way, another thing I realized: CLIPPERS. Having modest shipbuilding capacities in the early game make a huge difference in terms of trade, because trade volume is calculated through your available convoys. I wasn't bothering to a lot of imports as any non-Western European country because it was so anemic, until I got clippers up and running and suddenly whoa
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Nov 13, 2022 23:21
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AG3 posted:The impoverished Swedes in Sweden migrating because their SoL was completely wrecked is understandable, but why would Swedes in Norway who were affluent do the same thing at the same time, and to the same place? Especially considering that this nice place where they had nice jobs and good SoL was their homeland. As I understand it mass migrations work at the culture level. There was a lot of turmoil among Swedish culture pops, so all pops with Swedish culture started migrating en masse, including the ones that didn't have significant amounts of radicals. It's working as designed, the design is just wonky. If there was a previous Swedish mass migration to e.g. Michigan then those pops would have started migrating to Norway too.
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Nov 13, 2022 23:48
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AG3 posted:The impoverished Swedes in Sweden migrating because their SoL was completely wrecked is understandable, but why would Swedes in Norway who were affluent do the same thing at the same time, and to the same place? Especially considering that this nice place where they had nice jobs and good SoL was their homeland. Pops do take SoL into account in mass migrations. I've had ones happen that moved close to 0 pops. The projected migration number is not the actual number of migrants. Usually there is a burst of migration that doesn't persist, the projection assumes it will be constant. If swedes from your developed province migrated, it was probably just any leftover peasants, or labourers in the least productive buildings.
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Nov 14, 2022 00:24
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Agean90 posted:what is your Columbia demanding so much of that it joining a customs union is the kiss of death From a while back but it was leaving a customs union that was brutal. I built a lot of textile mills and furniture factories early on because they're very profitable but I didn't have enough fabric/wood to supply them. I was short on tools and groceries too, having neglected them. In the end I reloaded an earlier save and managed to survive outside of a customs union after some grim years of building everything I lacked, expanding bureaucracy to support more trade, and narrowly avoiding repeated bankruptcies. Now I just hate the war system and particularly the baffling randomness of how many and which battalions joint a battle. megane posted:I feel like a big missing component in the game is the downsides of industry. A lot of the tension in the industrial revolution came from cities and factories being pretty miserable places to live and work, as I understand it. In game, life in a city as a garment factory worker is just strictly better than life as a subsistence farmer, and the only reason factories create political tension is that peasants just don't care about politics. In Vicky 1/2 you could screw yourself badly trying to industrialize too early and literally starve your population from a lack of farmers. Agriculture just ... doesn't really matter in V3, which makes no sense. Feeding your population is trivial at any point in the game. The only famines that really happen are scripted ones from the extremely annoying natural disaster events. Precambrian Video Games fucked around with this message at 00:32 on Nov 14, 2022 |
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Nov 14, 2022 00:29
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The Narrator posted:Also a bit weird that all the German states I inherited are Unincorporated states? I know that there should be some representation of the administrative difficulty of bringing in a new state, but it was their idea too, I would hope we'd all have been a bit more prepared for it For what it's worth, since it's a cultural homeland you can incorporate it much faster than you could otherwise. Like 5 years vs 20 years or something? Given that the game only lasts 100 years it's a pretty big and important difference.
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Nov 14, 2022 00:32
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eXXon posted:In Vicky 1/2 you could screw yourself badly trying to industrialize too early and literally starve your population from a lack of farmers. Agriculture just ... doesn't really matter, which makes no sense. The only famines that really happen are scripted ones from the extremely annoying natural disaster events. You could only do this in Vicky 1 because you could convert every single farmer into a craftsmen (and also your whole country was state capitalist). That can't happen in Vicky 2, starvation only happens when your country is low rank, or when pops have literally no money, like craftsmen who sign up for unprofitable factories.
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Nov 14, 2022 00:42
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I feel like there are too many radical pops being generated by the way the AI bounces them from job to job.
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Nov 14, 2022 01:55
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Fat-Lip-Sum-41.mp3 posted:I feel like there are too many radical pops being generated by the way the AI bounces them from job to job. yeah there's something off with handling unemployment and/or temporary small SOL reductions
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Nov 14, 2022 02:01
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Really disliking how I'm stuck in a shrodinger's civil war as Chile when the Guarani rose up, I bested them, but because they started colonizing the adjacent province when I won I only took the established states. The colonizing part still remained, two of my political parties are now locked in some weird state where they are permanently marginalized but somehow show up in my government side whenever I click the reform button, and I cannot perform any diplomatic play towards the uprising, even after lowering their opinion heavily.
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Nov 14, 2022 02:06
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| # ? Jun 4, 2024 16:46 |
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GreyjoyBastard posted:yeah there's something off with handling unemployment and/or temporary small SOL reductions I've definitely noticed this as well and I think this might be one reason why AI countries are exploding so often, Europe and SE Asia seem like they get with this way more often then the rest of the world though. I'm sick of being asked if I want to intervene in some tiny island country's revolt six times a year just because I want oil and rubber. They're all 1 regiment vs. 1 regiment wars too. When I was playing Sweden I accidentally overbuilt factories in Scania and then that state had radicalism for decades. Coincidentally, this was the state my small arms industries were focused in and those fuckers are constantly hiring and firing pops because of how poo poo the arms industry is. I couldn't figure out how to shut it down until I just subsidized everything there for five years straight and the population fixed itself. Then it turned out that this drew off the population of a different state and I just said gently caress it and decided to live with constant 50% turmoil in all of my core states despite having SoL approaching 30. edit: shot in the dark here, but maybe buildings and immigration shouldn't be calculated on a daily basis, but rather monthly. Ithle01 fucked around with this message at 02:20 on Nov 14, 2022 |
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Nov 14, 2022 02:17
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