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I was of mixed opinion about the film. I thought the Namor parts were great, but the Wakanda segments a bit tiresome. I was pleasantly surprised, however, to see that they introduced and expanded more strong female roles in the movie. I was unhappy about M'Baku's lack of presence in the film; even though I think he might have been on-screen even more than in BP1, he just didn't carry his corner of the film as well as he did before (and I think that was the script's fault, not Winston Duke's). I also found the inclusion of Ross & his boss to be a total waste of screen time, except for the payoff of Okoye's joke at the end, and that's a long way to go for a laugh. But I loved everything about Namor, from his actor to his character to the reimagination from Atlantis to a neo-Mayan culture. And, of course, the way they got Imperius Rex onscreen. The main complaint I have about the climax of the film is that the question of vengeance seemed very forced and didn't carry enough weight somehow. Killmonger's appearance was brilliant, so maybe the script was all here. Was it Letitia Wright's failure to pull off the material? (I admit to being somewhat prejudiced against her for her anti-vaxx nutjob ideas.) Or maybe there was too much packed into the last quarter of the movie. At least the final fight was a lot more satisfying than BP1's. Speaking of which, though there was some weak CGI in the film, nothing as pronounced as the rhinos or the final fight from BP1, fortunately. And Namor flying didn't look goofy as hell, which is an achievement of its own.
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Nov 13, 2022 18:06
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The Ross/CIA stuff fit with the undercurrent of impending war on Wakanda.
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Nov 13, 2022 20:16
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Ross's entire arc was just there to set him up as a fugitive for Secret Invasion + he was in the first movie. It's not much deeper than that. Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 21:52 on Nov 13, 2022 |
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Nov 13, 2022 21:37
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On the subject of Ross, I do think it's very funny that he was the basis of a ton of dumb takes regarding the first movie being "CIA propaganda," and in WF they literally have a character trying to promote U.S. interests bring Ross to the Secretary of State and say "this is Ross from the CIA, he's our expert in destabilizing countries, here to advise us on destabilizing Wakanda" with incredibly villainous framing. It's admittedly a little wonky because Ross is nominally sympathetic and anti-destabilizing Wakanda, but the movie is very much not trying to paint U.S. intelligence agencies in a good light.
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Nov 13, 2022 21:46
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Arist posted:On the subject of Ross, I do think it's very funny that he was the basis of a ton of dumb takes regarding the first movie being "CIA propaganda," and in WF they literally have a character trying to promote U.S. interests bring Ross to the Secretary of State and say "this is Ross from the CIA, he's our expert in destabilizing countries, here to advise us on destabilizing Wakanda" with incredibly villainous framing. It's admittedly a little wonky because Ross is nominally sympathetic and anti-destabilizing Wakanda, but the movie is very much not trying to paint U.S. intelligence agencies in a good light. He's also a smug rear end in a top hat in Civil War. He's probably had half an hour of screen time in six years but he's got a decent little arc going.
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Nov 13, 2022 21:55
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Opopanax posted:Apparently that was just in the novelization, probably just a case of someone putting down a word from the comics before there was much of a plan The Iron Man 2 novelization was such a mess. Like it was definitely apparent that it was based on an early script for the movie that really, really needed some fixing. As sloppy as the final product was, what we got was a million times better than the nonsensical storytelling from the book. It says a lot that they stopped releasing MCU novelizations after Iron Man 2. Speaking of Iron Man 2, with Wakanda Forever, I like how Riri feels like a big follow-up to that. Part of Stark's hubris in the beginning was that he felt that the world would take forever to catch up to his technology. By forever, he meant 5-10 years. Even though he was somewhat wrong about that as there was another man out there with the inside knowledge on how to make arc reactor armor work, that was still a long time ago! Wakanda Forever is, what, 15 years after that chronologically? I have zero trouble believing that a super-smart college student could figure out how to recreate an existing form of advanced technology. It's one thing for her to invent Stark Tech. It's another for her to understand its workings and figure out how to reverse-engineer it.
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Nov 13, 2022 21:55
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Novelizations of movies are always based loosely on scripts or just rough outlines of the plot months before they even start shooting. The famous ones I can think of off the top of my head are: - Yoda is blue and a short human-sized alien instead of a tiny puppet-sized alien in Empire Strikes Back. - In 2001: A Space Odyssey, HAL goes crazy because humanity made contact with aliens and he was instructed to do whatever it takes to keep the astronauts in the dark to prevent them from freaking out. - Tony Stark invented vibranium and also had a brain tumor. - In the Halloween book, Michael Myers kills because the spirits of a Celtic royal family that were murdered in the middle ages are forcing him to re-enact their deaths. - Terminator 2 had a bunch of weird passages where John Connor sends messages to the future to inform his future self of when to send the T-850 back in time. - There's a bunch of weird additions in Return of the Jedi where it was revealed that Uncle Owen was Obi-Wan's brother and Obi-Wan was Luke's adoptive Uncle. - Lawnmower Man was infamously basically an entirely different story from both the original Steven King Book and the actual Lawnmower Man movie. The Back to The Future novelizations were so crazy that an author has a blog and book explaining how crazy and different they are from the final movies: https://btothef.tumblr.com/
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Nov 13, 2022 22:07
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Writing novelizations seems like a sweet job.
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Nov 13, 2022 22:09
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quote:- In 2001: A Space Odyssey, HAL goes crazy because humanity made contact with aliens and he was instructed to do whatever it takes to keep the astronauts in the dark to prevent them from freaking out. Wait, this isn't true to the movie?
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Nov 13, 2022 22:16
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I haven't read any novelizations in years but one of the best ones was the 2002 Spider-Man one by Peter David. It was an incredibly good translation of the film and had a very solid grasp of the character (unsurprising considering the writer). It also had an interesting device where excerpts from Peter's diary were included throughout, the diary was formatted as letters to his deceased parents, something Uncle Ben introduced Peter to as a small child to cope with his grief. This makes the 2002 novelistation the only time Peter's parents were brought into a Spider-Man story in a good and meaningful way imo.
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Nov 13, 2022 22:19
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Fangz posted:Wait, this isn't true to the movie? I think that was retroactively explained in the sequel. In the first movie HAL just kind of went crazy for Daisy, without a clear reason.
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Nov 13, 2022 22:22
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Karloff posted:This makes the 2002 novelistation the only time Peter's parents were brought into a Spider-Man story in a good and meaningful way imo. um excuse me this was a masterpiece 
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Nov 13, 2022 22:22
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Ugh, I loving hate when someone puts their foot through my chest with a big wet SPLAK.
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Nov 13, 2022 22:26
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2001 the book's relation to the movie is kind of weird because both were kind of developed at the same time. Then the movie changed some things up due to practical reasons (they couldn't figure out a convincing Saturn's rings) so they ended up slightly different. Then Clarke got weird with it by changing sequels to be based on the movies not on the previous books.
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Nov 13, 2022 23:16
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Novelizations of movies are always based loosely on scripts or just rough outlines of the plot months before they even start shooting. I used to read superhero movie adaptations and list all the differences until they just stopped doing it (junior novels notwithstanding). Stuff I remember from them: - Spider-Man 3 had at least a half hour of extra stuff going on that made the various plots feel far more complete, especially Eddie Brock's bitter descent into madness. It also suggested that at least some of Harry's conversations with the butler were in his head, so the butler telling him about his father's self-inflicted wound was more about Harry accepting the truth than a total deus ex machina. - Dark Knight just had a couple extra Joker scenes. More notable is his introduction, where right before the bank robbery, he stalks an old woman on the street... only to hand her a $100 bill for the sake of being unpredictable. - Iron Man had a very different end to the second act. The Air Force guys blew him out of the sky, causing him to barely survive and fall back to drinking because it made him a nervous wreck. This caused huge friction between Rhodey and Pepper. This was definitely filmed as I've seen a still of his fried armor online, but the Air Force understandably did NOT want to be known as the guys who hosed up Iron Man and they cut all that out. - Incredible Hulk gave Leonard Samson a bigger role, including a scene of him acting as a psychiatrist to Banner. Shots of this were at least in the commercials. There were a lot of embarrassingly stupid bits that thankfully got cut out of the full movie. I think there was a YouTube video of Samuel Sterns doing an experiment that turned his subject blue, hence his nickname Mr. Blue. Martin Starr's quick appearance as the nerd eating pizza was referenced as Amadeus Cho, though since he's since reappeared in the MCU as Mr. Harrington in the Spider-Man movies, people figure the nerd was just a young version of him. - The main thing I recall about Iron Man 2 was that Stark had some kind of nanite ball that he'd be casually playing with throughout the story that nobody ever referenced. Then in the finale, armored Whiplash had Pepper hostage and Stark fought him without his suit. Stark used the nanite ball to armor his arm to protect himself and then War Machine popped in to blow Whiplash to kingdom come with that "ex-wife" super missile that Hammer gave him. The same missile that the movie wrote off as a total joke.
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Nov 13, 2022 23:30
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Wasn’t one of the good things about the Iron Man 2 novelization that Natasha was the only agent present that could read Russian?
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Nov 14, 2022 00:10
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Gavok posted:
A variation of what you describe was actually shot https://youtu.be/SgX6ZRmTVGY no nanite ball but the ex wife and all that is present.
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Nov 14, 2022 00:24
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Karloff posted:A variation of what you describe was actually shot https://youtu.be/SgX6ZRmTVGY no nanite ball but the ex wife and all that is present. The book was more bantery about using the ex-wife, but there was also no reason for Tony to know what the gently caress the ex-wife even is.
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Nov 14, 2022 01:49
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The X-Men 2 novelization had Jean go blind and then have to use her powers to see through others' eyes. 
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Nov 14, 2022 02:12
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BrianWilly posted:The X-Men 2 novelization had Jean go blind and then have to use her powers to see through others' eyes. It was also written by Chris Claremont! But I think that he was told to not give away the twist of Jean dying in the movie since the novel came out first.
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Nov 14, 2022 02:15
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Codependent Poster posted:It was also written by Chris Claremont! I guess you have to account for non-comic readers, but Jean dying being considered a spoiler is pretty funny
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Nov 14, 2022 02:27
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The scene where Tony brings Pepper apology strawberries, only to be reminded that she's allergic to strawberries, is top tier character work in the MCU.
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Nov 14, 2022 06:06
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Soonmot posted:She's from Chicago, that's just how we are Ok it's not just me.
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Nov 14, 2022 16:56
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Codependent Poster posted:It was also written by Chris Claremont! Guess I shouldn't be surprised this was a Claremont touch, given that he had Psylock do this same thing back when he was writing her, before the uncomfortable race change she's more known for.
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Nov 14, 2022 17:18
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The Predator novelization: Arnold's character; "Dutch" was a nickname, his first name was Alan Team member Ramirez was called "Poncho" Instead of fatally wounding the Predator with a log, he killed it by throwing one of the Predator's energy weapons at its head as the Predator fled back aboard its spaceship. The atmosphere inside the ship was different to our own, so the Predator's head exploded in slow motion.
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Nov 14, 2022 19:34
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glitchwraith posted:Regarding the mid credit's scene, revealing T'Challa had a son is cute, but also seemed a little pointless in the bigger scheme of things. I could see him being the center of political intrigue in future installments, though I hope they don't upgrade him to Panther anytime soon. So basically, the movie is pulling this from Beerfest........eventually? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0w9DUTcAI0o
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Nov 14, 2022 19:35
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Going to see black panther 2 tomorrow. Hope I like it.
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Nov 14, 2022 19:36
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Jiro posted:So basically, the movie is pulling this from Beerfest........eventually? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0w9DUTcAI0o Going to be vague with no spoilers, but: The end credits thing is just a little "his memory lives on..." sappy capstone to his story. They aren't using it to time jump 20 years and recast.
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Nov 14, 2022 19:45
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Davros1 posted:The Predator novelization: Poncho was the name used most in the film, he's maybe only referred to as Ramirez once, it's Poncho all the way. Also! Dillon's name is also Alan, so the famous handshake-wrestle is the Battle of the Alans. Not a name I would have guessed or associated with either of them, frankly. 'Alan'. 'ALAN'. No.
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Nov 14, 2022 20:46
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glitchwraith posted:Guess I shouldn't be surprised this was a Claremont touch, given that he had Psylock do this same thing back when he was writing her, before the uncomfortable race change she's more known for. I am so glad they undid that. I always thought it was because Jim Lee wanted another (Hot) girl on the team, but when reading the Claremont run, it happens before that. Anyways, I saw Wakanda Forever friday and I've finally digested the movie. I honestly think its the best film released since Endgame. No Way Home is only edged out because its so dependent on nostalgia. Yea, WF does rely on the first movie so some stuff, especially emotional beats, but its not the whole movie. Everyones really acting their hardest in the movie, especially Angela Bassett. Namor ruled, less an outward smug dick, but the smoldering god complex guy worked really well. T'challas death, funeral and memorials was done as well as could possibly be done in a movie that had to also respect the actor. Every time they showed clips of him the theater had a huge pop. But its amazing how this movie is going to make a billion dollars where almost the entire main cast are black women. Barely any white people even get a name. Spoiler talk stuff but god drat this is a depressing movie. Having Ramonda die in addition to T'challa was a huge gut punch. Most of the movie is people dealing with their grief and loss. Namor and his people were a good paraelle to the Wakandas, another people who remained isolated from the outside world and kept their traditions and had them evolve, but the Talokans are a refugree population not one that maintained its independence, so that effects both their society and how they interact with the world. But they're also insanely cruel. Their attack on Wakanda directly targeted civilians AND the Sirens cause their first responders to drown themselves, so they're not here to make war, but murder the people. That was a bit rough to realize. Oh Nakia killed that woman who was serving Shuri and Riri, yea but that same woman was going to slit Shuri's throat, not exactly an innocent person going about their day. Riri was kinda like America in MoM, where she was more of a plot device rather than a character, but she was still great. I love that the Ironheart suit looked very anime, reminded me of something you'd see in Bubblegum Crisis, which totally fits the character. And as others have said, she was under threat of death for the entire movie by people who she just witnessed killing indiscriminately and the Queen dying to protect her is going to put her in a "lets gently caress these people up" mode. Ross's stuff did seem a bit like an after thought, i don't think the movie really gained anything having it, the threat from Namor was enough after the initial french raid on the lad. Also it was great seeing soldiers attack a lab and then get hosed up, because normally labs getting attacked end up with everyone being killed. Anyways, I think Val and the SecState stuff is setting up the plot of Thunderbolts. They'll first be sent to take out cartels and terrorists who have somehow gotten their hands on Vibranium, and then the end will be them attacking Wakanda, and at that point Bucky goes "wait, no the Wakandas are on our side" and we get the teams turn against Val. I love love love love love what they've done with M'Baku, making him a hero is one of the best things the MCU has done. I'm surprised he didn't get a suit, a better version of the suit he wears in the comics, maybe that will be in the 3rd movie.
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Nov 14, 2022 20:53
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It'd weird that they haven't even hinted at a Young Avengers movie/show yet. I wonder if they're going to stealth introduce them in something like Thunderbolts or New World Order
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Nov 14, 2022 21:05
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Like 75% of the Young Avengers roster has been introduced briefly at this point but most of the team is going to be in their early 30s by the time there's a dedicated Young Avengers project. My guess is that they'll just be The Avengers. Young Avengers as a name has a Young Adult fiction connotation that may turn some potential fans off. I know a lot of people who never bothered with Ms Marvel because it felt too Young Adult to them. And sure it is, but so is Spider-Man.
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Nov 14, 2022 21:44
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AngryBooch posted:Like 75% of the Young Avengers roster has been introduced briefly at this point but most of the team is going to be in their early 30s by the time there's a dedicated Young Avengers project. Turning some potential fans off does not seem to be an issue for Feige after She-Hulk.
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Nov 14, 2022 23:13
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Opopanax posted:It'd weird that they haven't even hinted at a Young Avengers movie/show yet. I wonder if they're going to stealth introduce them in something like Thunderbolts or New World Order Most of the individuals are out there, and it sure seems like Billy is gonna be introduced in the Agatha series. So I'm thinking they'll start ramping them up in the next year or so.
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Nov 14, 2022 23:23
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My favorite shot in BP2 is when Shuri went to M'Baku for some advice, and they have him sit down on his throne behind her, and they use the very real size difference between the two of them and some forced perspective to just completely fill the entire background of the shot with M'Baku, making him look like he's 15 feet tall. It was incredibly well done.
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Nov 14, 2022 23:28
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Actually Winston Duke is 15 feet tall, all the other shots use force perspective to make him appear to be smaller.
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Nov 14, 2022 23:37
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Opopanax posted:It'd weird that they haven't even hinted at a Young Avengers movie/show yet. I wonder if they're going to stealth introduce them in something like Thunderbolts or New World Order Somebody asked Hailee Steinfeld about it at a panel and she gave Feige the biggest "Can we? Can we?" look.
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Nov 15, 2022 02:26
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Nov 15, 2022 02:39
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I don’t think it’s terribly important that the Young Avengers are teens nor that they’re called the YA. Like they didn’t actually call themselves that, did they? It’s just a natural story that’s developing of a next generation of superheroes that are trying to build up to a legacy. I think the natural path is for both they and the Thunderbolts to rise up to try and fill the vacuum of no Avengers with the YA as the idealic foil to the sketchy group of assassins. And the resolution is probably Sam forming a new Avengers team. But who knows?
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Nov 15, 2022 02:56
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I guess they did straight up give Kang Dynasty and Secret Wars the Avengers title, so we'll see some kind of team by then
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Nov 15, 2022 02:59
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