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Blackchamber posted:Palpatine: evil Jedi. i'm so howling mad i'm throwing my black series death trooper helmet on the ground and stoming on it.
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Nov 13, 2022 23:17
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One of my favourite, controversial parts in TLJ was how Snoke's 'reveal' ended up being a funky throne sitting dude in gold pyjamas who got unceremoniously merked, to make way for the more interesting villain in Kylo. Like I can see why people had a problem with that, but really, any other backstory or character progression for the guy would just follow a third rate Palpatine knockoff and we didn't need that again. Isometric Bacon fucked around with this message at 23:24 on Nov 13, 2022 |
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Nov 13, 2022 23:22
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I would have preferred it if an adult at Lucasfilm had sat JJ and Rian down and made them hash out a cohesive and coherent narrative over the sequel trilogy instead of letting them waste millions of man hours and billions of dollars working on a 6 year intergalactic pissing contest
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Nov 13, 2022 23:28
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Owlbear Camus posted:i'm so howling mad i'm throwing my black series death trooper helmet on the ground and stoming on it. Easy there, don't want to break that. The death troopers... They are some kind of corpo security group? I don't know if they are or aren't but I think I have the jist of it and I am ready to have strong opinions about them and if I'm wrong I don't care to learn a bunch of dumb lore about it. This isn't the fandom for that sort of thing.
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Nov 13, 2022 23:28
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Isometric Bacon posted:One of my favourite, controversial parts in TLJ was how Snoke's 'reveal' ended up being a funky throne sitting dude in gold pyjamas who got unceremoniously merked, to make way for the more interesting villain in Kylo. Likewise one of my favorite dumb complaints was that we "never got his backstory',and then he just died." His backstory doesn't matter. He's a supporting stock character, instrumental only in how he drives the other character's stories. It's not like when we first met the same sort of stock supporting character in the Emperor in the flesh in RotJ he had a big spiel about "As you know, Vader, I was once a humble senator from the obscure system of Naboo. However once I orchestrated the Droid invasion and occupation of that system, I was able to maneuver into the position of Supreme Chancellor, from which I puppeteered both sides of a war, accumulating power..." Butterfly Valley posted:I would have preferred it if an adult at Lucasfilm had sat JJ and Rian down and made them hash out a cohesive and coherent narrative over the sequel trilogy instead of letting them waste millions of man hours and billions of dollars working on a 6 year intergalactic pissing contest It's kind of hilarious and baffling that they spent billions on the acquisition and didn't have even a weekend writer's room to come up with a simple three movie outline with the high points to lock in stone, and instead let them play Bizarro improv troupe doing "no, and" with the hand offs. Owlbear Camus fucked around with this message at 23:35 on Nov 13, 2022 |
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Nov 13, 2022 23:31
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Butterfly Valley posted:I would have preferred it if an adult at Lucasfilm had sat JJ and Rian down and made them hash out a cohesive and coherent narrative over the sequel trilogy instead of letting them waste millions of man hours and billions of dollars working on a 6 year intergalactic pissing contest What was Rian supposed to do? Call JJ and ask what he was envisioning for all this poo poo? He wouldn't have gotten an answer.
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Nov 13, 2022 23:40
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Owlbear Camus posted:It's kind of hilarious and baffling that they spent billions on the acquisition and didn't have even a weekend writer's room to come up with a simple three movie outline with the high points to lock in stone, and instead let them play Bizarro improv troupe doing "no, and" with the hand offs. Yeah, it really feels like each movie set out to do its own thing then handballed it over the wall 'not my problem'. If you look at each film, you can tell they are super reactionary to the last one. TLJ responds to the critical reception TFA got for being a simple rehash of New Hope / nostalgia fest, by deliberately setting up a lot of Empires staples and flipping them on their head. ROS responds by saying 'oh you didn't like when were were trying something different, well, actually none of that happened, here's the same poo poo you've always had on a warmed up plate.'
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Nov 13, 2022 23:46
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It should be on whoever is above Johnson or Abrams. Kathleen Kennedy? The MCU has Kevin Feige, there should be someone in a similar role at least for the main movies. Or at least there should have been at the time. Filoni since then has been given a title that makes it sound like he is Star Wars Feige.
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Nov 13, 2022 23:49
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Lobok posted:It should be on whoever is above Johnson or Abrams. Kathleen Kennedy? The MCU has Kevin Feige, there should be someone in a similar role at least for the main movies. Or at least there should have been at the time. Filoni since then has been given a title that makes it sound like he is Star Wars Feige. Feige doesn't even really do any real continuity and is the exact same thing. Iron Man gets over his crap in 3 and is right back to Iron Man 1 in Avengers. Marvel is just better at hiding not bothering with real continuity and changing characters between movies because their vocal fans are moreso just blockbuster/popularity fans by and large, while Star Wars vocal fans are nostalgia based and/or nerds. 95 percent of people that saw Iron Man never read an Iron Man comic or even saw him in a cartoon. Everyone saw Star Wars OT or PT as a kid and have all kinds of ideas on what it "should be." To a lesser degree, this is DC's issue with Superman and Batman. You have to deliver a lot more when you're dealing with things people relate more to some big parts of their lives and oftentimes, just breaking expectations is enough. Andor having no kid-nostalgia characters in it to "ruin" except a guy with a moustache in the background of ANH also helps people not get as "not my Star Wars" about it, while some people still do.
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Nov 13, 2022 23:54
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Lobok posted:It should be on whoever is above Johnson or Abrams. Kathleen Kennedy? The MCU has Kevin Feige, there should be someone in a similar role at least for the main movies. Or at least there should have been at the time. Filoni since then has been given a title that makes it sound like he is Star Wars Feige. I somewhat agree, especially for a movie Trilogy, but I also think Star Wars is a property that is made better having a broad universe, with distinct stories. Happy for them have western adventure serials in Mandalorian, prestige thrillers in Andor, kid targeted adventure shows in Clone Wars or Itchy and Lumpys holiday special variety show. (Ok not the last one) . The thing that falls over for me is shoehorning them all into one another. I might be outvoted in this one, but I think the worse parts of the Mandalorian was when they try to pull everything together instead of allowing its unique characters and locations tell their own stories.
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Nov 13, 2022 23:57
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stev posted:What was Rian supposed to do? Call JJ and ask what he was envisioning for all this poo poo? He wouldn't have gotten an answer. I said someone at lucasfilm should have sat the directors down before any of it started to make sure they were broadly on board with an overarching plot and themes that make sense to be told over a trilogy. That they ended up with their directors throwing in very obviously adversarial plot points belies a total dereliction of duty. I shouldn't be able to imagine the director smashing the other director's action figures out of a sandbox when I see major plot points happening. This goes for both of them.
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Nov 14, 2022 00:03
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Darko posted:Feige doesn't even really do any real continuity and is the exact same thing. Iron Man gets over his crap in 3 and is right back to Iron Man 1 in Avengers. Marvel is just better at hiding not bothering with real continuity and changing characters between movies because their vocal fans are moreso just blockbuster/popularity fans by and large, while Star Wars vocal fans are nostalgia based and/or nerds. Good point about character continuity but I was thinking more about just the basics of where films are intended to go plot-wise. Feige isn't an omniscient mastermind of everything, but when the jobs of making films are given to screenwriters and directors everyone has to be aligned on certain major things to do or not do. Movie sequels used to be done when producers were like hey, that was successful so let's figure out how to follow that up. If you got up to 3 or more, great. When you announce ahead of time that you're going to be doing a trilogy it sounds like someone has a plan of what to do for three movies in a row. But apparently not! I mean, forget Marvel and Feige. Someone should have said hey, we need a new Lucas. Isometric Bacon posted:I somewhat agree, especially for a movie Trilogy, but I also think Star Wars is a property that is made better having a broad universe, with distinct stories. That's why I said "at least for the main movies." Not everything has to be tied into each other thing or leading somewhere.
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Nov 14, 2022 00:12
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Butterfly Valley posted:I said someone at lucasfilm should have sat the directors down before any of it started to make sure they were broadly on board with an overarching plot and themes that make sense to be told over a trilogy. That they ended up with their directors throwing in very obviously adversarial plot points belies a total dereliction of duty. I shouldn't be able to imagine the director smashing the other director's action figures out of a sandbox when I see major plot points happening. This goes for both of them. I just meant it didn't feel like a pissing contest with him, more like he didn't know what to do with what he was left with and genuinely tried to turn it into something interesting. Then JJ came back and was clearly pissed Rian hadn't followed his vague vision. But yeah really the issue is that no one took the time to write a page long summary of what the trilogy would look like before they started. Which is weird since that's usually what happens when the creatives don't expect there to be a sequel.
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Nov 14, 2022 00:17
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Lobok posted:Good point about character continuity but I was thinking more about just the basics of where films are intended to go plot-wise. Feige isn't an omniscient mastermind of everything, but when the jobs of making films are given to screenwriters and directors everyone has to be aligned on certain major things to do or not do. I'm pretty sure that's Pablo Hidalgo and his group, but my guess is no one asked him.
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Nov 14, 2022 00:26
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I am actually impressed at how Star Wars Andor feels at times, stuff like the Coruscant under city is really well done and not just a dashed off reference like Belsavis
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Nov 14, 2022 00:33
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Butterfly Valley posted:I said someone at lucasfilm should have sat the directors down before any of it started to make sure they were broadly on board with an overarching plot and themes that make sense to be told over a trilogy. That they ended up with their directors throwing in very obviously adversarial plot points belies a total dereliction of duty. I shouldn't be able to imagine the director smashing the other director's action figures out of a sandbox when I see major plot points happening. This goes for both of them. It's not like Disney just gave them a blank check and turned them loose, all the sequel movies (and most infamously Solo) had huge amounts of editing and reshoots done after the directors were finished with them. Your characterisation of Rian Johnson and JJ Abrams as naughty little rascals kicking sand in each other's faces is funny, but the truth is there's an environment above and beyond both of them where these movies are produced, and that environment isn't conducive to creativity. Even if a grownup bad sat them down and told them to play nice, there were still hard limits on the kind of play they could engage in
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Nov 14, 2022 00:54
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It's not like it's totally impossible to have different directors bringing their own style to a part of a whole yet still making a cohesive product, look at the Mandalorian and Andor as examples of how it can be done. Maybe if they'd had a plan before they started they wouldn't have felt the need for so much meddling and reshoots? Like they're literally on record as saying there was no overarching plan, which is totally loving mind boggling.
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Nov 14, 2022 01:06
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mitochondritom posted:There's been so much Star Wars of late that I'd completely forgotten Werner Herzog was in the first Mandalorian episodes. I think the abysmal Book of Boba Fett and Obi-Wan soured it all for me. I remember thinking the scenes with the Client were really good. I'd love to see him show up in Andor
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Nov 14, 2022 01:07
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TV directors (non-producer) and film directors have vastly different amounts of power and control over the stories they're telling.
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Nov 14, 2022 01:08
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Butterfly Valley posted:I would have preferred it if an adult at Lucasfilm had sat JJ and Rian down and made them hash out a cohesive and coherent narrative over the sequel trilogy instead of letting them waste millions of man hours and billions of dollars working on a 6 year intergalactic pissing contest
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Nov 14, 2022 01:29
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Blackchamber posted:Easy there, don't want to break that. The death troopers... They are some kind of corpo security group? I don't know if they are or aren't but I think I have the jist of it and I am ready to have strong opinions about them and if I'm wrong I don't care to learn a bunch of dumb lore about it. This isn't the fandom for that sort of thing. I don't think they're corp affiliated, they're just picked Stormies for dedicated warcriming.
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Nov 14, 2022 01:32
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Cheesus posted:Weird, Disney apparently had all of that when they bought the company, but gently caress that hack George Lucas! What does that guy know about the Star War anyway?! Wasn't his sequel trilogy pitch some Osmosis Jones poo poo where we shrunk down to live in the midichlorian world? Not that that would have been worse than "somehow, etc etc" in the final reckoning I guess.
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Nov 14, 2022 01:32
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Anarcho-Commissar posted:I'm pretty sure that's Pablo Hidalgo and his group, but my guess is no one asked him. I thought that guy was Loremaster, Keeper of the Tomes.
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Nov 14, 2022 01:40
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Owlbear Camus posted:It's kind of hilarious and baffling that they spent billions on the acquisition and didn't have even a weekend writer's room to come up with a simple three movie outline with the high points to lock in stone, and instead let them play Bizarro improv troupe doing "no, and" with the hand offs. To me this is the most staggering thing. With the OT you had Lucas' vision sort working as a canon and sounding board for other writers and directors. He built the template and let others give it life. Whatever one thinks of his vision, it's coherent and more or less holds it all together. In the prequels you see what happens when the vision man tries to do everything himself because he doesn't want to deal with the "system." The prequels would have been better if Lucas had given his notes and outline to other writers and directors to flesh out. Because the vision itself isn't bad. It's planned out well, just not well executed. But to have commissioned a new SW trilogy without any overall plan, structure, or vision was just bonkers. Hell, even Filoni would have tossed off some better overall story idea. Clearly they wanted the box office of TFA as proof of concept, but come on.
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Nov 14, 2022 01:57
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Lucas provided disney with treatments for an entire sequel trilogy, 100 scripts for star wars underworld, and i think treatments for some stand alone films too. Disney just wanted some of their own stuff (make it like the ot please)
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Nov 14, 2022 02:22
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TFA and TLJ are both fine though. I understand why some people might not like them, but neither of them approach the level of crap TROS is. The problem really wasn't lack of planning it was just that they couldn't execute on the final movie. I appreciate that more planning would have reduced the chance of this happening but it really was just a failure on that film in my view. I'm sure lots of people could come up with elevator pitches continuing from the end of TLJ that could have been done over a short period of time and would have been better than what we got.
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Nov 14, 2022 02:23
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Wasn't Rian Johnson originally announced as the director of 8 and 9? I figured the issue there was that the stuff set up in TLJ would pay off in his next movie, but then 9 got shuffled around to like three different directors. It kills me how incredibly accurate this meme was. Jerkface posted:Lucas provided disney with treatments for an entire sequel trilogy, 100 scripts for star wars underworld, and i think treatments for some stand alone films too. I want to corner somebody who worked on Underworld and find out what exactly the hell happened, because I refuse to believe that they actually finished 100 scripts for a show that never got made. If it were anybody but George I'd say surely we're talking outlines or treatments here, and more like 30 than 100. But... there is the chance they just never got their poo poo together and somewhere in the Disney vaults is a completed 7 series prestige drama exploring the rise of capo Glup Shitto.
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Nov 14, 2022 02:26
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Owlbear Camus posted:Wasn't his sequel trilogy pitch some Osmosis Jones poo poo where we shrunk down to live in the midichlorian world? No, it was Maul coming back and everyone else loving up politics. There was some mandichlorian exploration stuff he was talking about too when randomly talking about what he'd like to do. Some of his stuff got chopped up into the sequels. Lucas is super political, so while his direction of actors and balance of goofiness needs work, his overarching stories are great because they establish actual worlds and stuff which means other directors or shows can build greatly on them.
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Nov 14, 2022 02:35
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StashAugustine posted:make the loving Bothan movie, Disney The Rebellion owes a lot to Many the Bothan.
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Nov 14, 2022 02:56
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I'd be very excited for a whole movie about Scooby Doo espionage https://twitter.com/starwars_chars/status/1590567463455928320
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Nov 14, 2022 03:03
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What's the most canon depiction of a Bothan these days? Seems like they've only ever been mentioned in passing or in books, never visually depicted. fake edit: looks like there was a character in Resistance which looked like a Bothan although not explicitly defined as such
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Nov 14, 2022 03:12
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Burning_Monk posted:Can't wait for the sequel!
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Nov 14, 2022 03:13
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Jerkface posted:Lucas provided disney with treatments for an entire sequel trilogy, 100 scripts for star wars underworld, and i think treatments for some stand alone films too. Yeah, and they should have master-planned it themselves. But who knows? It might have been worse.
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Nov 14, 2022 03:16
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If 9 had been Duel of the Fates even if the quality was questionable the whole planning argument would be moot because it would be a coherent trilogy, the shape it ended up in is entirely the fault of panic recalling a guy bad at ending stories at the best of times and letting him make something that deliberately flew in the face of what came before it
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Nov 14, 2022 03:29
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Rochallor posted:Wasn't Rian Johnson originally announced as the director of 8 and 9? I figured the issue there was that the stuff set up in TLJ would pay off in his next movie, but then 9 got shuffled around to like three different directors. They actually wrote filmable scripts apparently, Lucas is quoting that they fully wrote 5 seasons of the show. He had a crazy a list of tv writers just knocking out scripts for it. A lot of the stuff they played around with in underworld ended up getting folded into clone wars and rebels storylines
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Nov 14, 2022 03:43
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Man that 30 second scene where Luthen is putting on his wig and practicing his smile was a really loving smart bit of character work in a franchise full of the exact opposite.
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Nov 14, 2022 04:35
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Darko posted:No, it was Maul coming back and everyone else loving up politics. There was some mandichlorian exploration stuff he was talking about too when randomly talking about what he'd like to do. Some of his stuff got chopped up into the sequels. Based on what the "art of" books contained (some from under Lucas' direction) the only plot point I can see that made it to the films was Hermit Luke seemingly abandoned being a Jedi. Would loving own to see Rey fight Maul's apprentice Darth Talon (George was apparently going to use the female twilik colored like Maul from the Legacy comic). Throw in some wizened Stellen Skarsgard trying to desperately hold the New Republic together against First Order remnants and you got a Star Wars going on, baby!
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Nov 14, 2022 04:47
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Ah boy, I'm suddenly not so tired of all the star wars
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Nov 14, 2022 09:07
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I actually think Dedra will go rebel. She's way too smart for a fascist regime. She already understands the how of the rebellion. The next step for her is to understand the why of a rebellion. I suspect Robocop will take her place within the ISB.
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Nov 14, 2022 10:11
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Peter Weller in a Star War would be too much incredible for a single IP to withstand. I'm now disappointed because I know this won't happened.
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Nov 14, 2022 10:16
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