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Shear Modulus posted:I think that effective altruism and related pseudo-philosophical moral justification of the status quo are clandestine cultural psyops a la the iowa writers workshop and the rest of the cold war era western creative writing scene, don't @ me i think a lot of it is naturally occuring cope from rich morons that possibly is signal boosted by agencies that see it as useful once it starts to catch on cause its all so dumb and bankrupt that if you were trying to plan it you'd do way better
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Nov 13, 2022 18:59
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Shear Modulus posted:I think that effective altruism and related pseudo-philosophical moral justification of the status quo are clandestine cultural psyops a la the iowa writers workshop and the rest of the cold war era western creative writing scene, don't @ me i mean jeremy bentham preexisted the cia
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Nov 13, 2022 19:15
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Petey posted:i mean jeremy bentham preexisted the cia oh jeez i wonder if there are any other social philosophers that have come after but for some reason are absent from the social discourse?????????????????
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Nov 13, 2022 19:18
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imo “the singularity” is so insanely stupid I can’t imagine someone coming up with it maliciously, cause who could possibly believe someone else would be dumb enough to believe in it. I think it organically came out of Computer Man brain because Conputer Man has a pathological need to come up with reasons, even insane ones, for why the computer is all that matters. then thereafter the singularity provides a lot of useful justifications for why actually, you deserve to have a billion dollars, and actually, the worst thing you could do with your money is give it to the needy.
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Nov 13, 2022 19:34
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Petey posted:exactly. and if you are someone who has invested all your runes in leveling up int alone, then you don’t have a stopping point I remain unclear why we're pretending there's great intelligence in play here, you don't actually need very much compassion or worldly experience or whatever to look at their first principles and identify the entire framework as useless
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Nov 13, 2022 19:40
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I can't figure out how to access archives through the awful app (impossible?) But there was a thread here somewhere on the 'dark enlightenment'. Which I think was about Computer Man/EA/internet rationist/Rocco's basalisk/lesswrong types. They suck. My more recent brush was when I reactivated my twitter and found out a bunch of local liberal hippie burner tech bros had taken to calling everyone else NPCs and were writing the most smug tweets about their monopoly on creativity and interestingness. I can't. I do not like this world sometimes. Also, conspiracy related q: would it not make sense for their to be spooks posting on this forum, or at least monitoring it? I mean, it is part of an online ecosystem of... Something. The chapo guys, brown Moses, 4chan, et al. Came from sa and they must have come across this lovely website at some point. :Tinfoilhat:
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Nov 13, 2022 19:57
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These are the same "rationalist" freaks who galaxy brained themselves into inventing Hell all over again with their "Roko's basilisk" thought experiment (a funny and totally unsurprising story I heard is that apparently Elon Musk and Grimes started dating after she made some joke to him about Roko's basilisk or something). And of course Epstein was a transhumanist and networked with a bunch of them at EDGE dinners etc. Just a bunch of absolute clowns and sickos
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Nov 13, 2022 20:00
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Lampsacus posted:I can't figure out how to access archives through the awful app (impossible?) But there was a thread here somewhere on the 'dark enlightenment'. Which I think was about Computer Man/EA/internet rationist/Rocco's basalisk/lesswrong types. They suck. My more recent brush was when I reactivated my twitter and found out a bunch of local liberal hippie burner tech bros had taken to calling everyone else NPCs and were writing the most smug tweets about their monopoly on creativity and interestingness. I can't. I do not like this world sometimes. im an op, op
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Nov 13, 2022 20:02
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Irony.or.Death posted:I remain unclear why we're pretending there's great intelligence in play here, you don't actually need very much compassion or worldly experience or whatever to look at their first principles and identify the entire framework as useless i think that moreso than "intelligence," which is too broad a term, it's speaking to the sort of highly educated person that people use "smart" as a shorthand for (ivy league educated, STEM degree, listens to NPR, etc). The argumentative process is to pull some quantitative values out of nowhere, do a bunch of careful-looking math, and then state conclusions that appeal to the formal-feeling mathlike or logic-like reasoning to try and misdirect from the specious assumptions. It seems not dissimilar to, for example, neoliberal economics, which has artifacts like NPR segments explaining how the experts say that to make inflation go down we need to make unemployment go up.
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Nov 13, 2022 20:03
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Lampsacus posted:Also, conspiracy related q: would it not make sense for their to be spooks posting on this forum, or at least monitoring it? I mean, it is part of an online ecosystem of... Something. The chapo guys, brown Moses, 4chan, et al. Came from sa and they must have come across this lovely website at some point. :Tinfoilhat: has anyone actually confirmed that lowtax is dead?
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Nov 13, 2022 20:06
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Cuttlefush posted:im an op, op
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Nov 13, 2022 20:09
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Lampsacus posted:I can't figure out how to access archives through the awful app (impossible?) But there was a thread here somewhere on the 'dark enlightenment'. Which I think was about Computer Man/EA/internet rationist/Rocco's basalisk/lesswrong types. They suck. My more recent brush was when I reactivated my twitter and found out a bunch of local liberal hippie burner tech bros had taken to calling everyone else NPCs and were writing the most smug tweets about their monopoly on creativity and interestingness. I can't. I do not like this world sometimes. yeah this is a lesswrong or slatestarcodex crowd. Not dark enlightenment per se
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Nov 13, 2022 20:09
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Perry Mason Jar posted:So it's the tech bro equivalent of what people claim China is doing, except good when China does it. Interesting maybe I'm missing what you're saying here but I've missed any crypto billionaires or altruism freaks lifting tens of millions out of destitute poverty or building critical infrastructure in developing nations
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Nov 13, 2022 20:24
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Best Friends posted:imo “the singularity” is so insanely stupid I can’t imagine someone coming up with it maliciously, cause who could possibly believe someone else would be dumb enough to believe in it. I think it organically came out of Computer Man brain because Conputer Man has a pathological need to come up with reasons, even insane ones, for why the computer is all that matters. apocalypticism is nothing new
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Nov 13, 2022 21:29
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Shear Modulus posted:i think that moreso than "intelligence," which is too broad a term, it's speaking to the sort of highly educated person that people use "smart" as a shorthand for (ivy league educated, STEM degree, listens to NPR, etc). The argumentative process is to pull some quantitative values out of nowhere, do a bunch of careful-looking math, and then state conclusions that appeal to the formal-feeling mathlike or logic-like reasoning to try and misdirect from the specious assumptions. It seems not dissimilar to, for example, neoliberal economics, which has artifacts like NPR segments explaining how the experts say that to make inflation go down we need to make unemployment go up. that certainly sounds right to me, i'm objecting to using "smart" as shorthand for these people (and their hangers-on). plenty of highly educated people who can do math are still perfectly capable of recognizing that, for example, when a line of argument leads to an obviously wrong conclusion it's a sign that you should take a closer look at the premises, etc. etc.
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Nov 13, 2022 22:35
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okay I’m coming around on the “these people are just stupid” argument: https://twitter.com/jimmyfalungong/status/1591912579911528448?s=46&t=zyBHetk2-NutZapWZO4KRg
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Nov 13, 2022 23:20
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books are thought control i only play interactive fiction so i can express my unique agency
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Nov 13, 2022 23:31
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Guy learned the high school five paragraph essay and figured he was done
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Nov 13, 2022 23:40
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Endman posted:okay I’m coming around on the “these people are just stupid” argument: AAAAAAAAÄ
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Nov 13, 2022 23:42
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Irony.or.Death posted:that certainly sounds right to me, i'm objecting to using "smart" as shorthand for these people (and their hangers-on). plenty of highly educated people who can do math are still perfectly capable of recognizing that, for example, when a line of argument leads to an obviously wrong conclusion it's a sign that you should take a closer look at the premises, etc. etc. yeah I fully concede that words like smart or brilliant or whatever are underdetermined
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Nov 14, 2022 00:28
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maybe one day we’ll finally have a cure for STEM brain
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Nov 14, 2022 00:55
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Endman posted:okay I’m coming around on the “these people are just stupid” argument: This is from an interview with a man who falls on his head for a living as a useful comparison https://twitter.com/reasonjp/status/945476040150810629?s=20&t=V1IPWM4FbeXOc5ERiSrG0w
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Nov 14, 2022 04:56
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https://twitter.com/jkultra23/status/1592021074610638849 I'm not the OP but would happily take any questions
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Nov 14, 2022 07:03
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gradenko_2000 posted:https://twitter.com/jkultra23/status/1592021074610638849 not seeing anything on here that is wrong?
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Nov 14, 2022 07:09
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125 years of effort has gotten us a very useful client state in southeast asia
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Nov 14, 2022 07:10
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Lampsacus posted:Also, conspiracy related q: would it not make sense for their to be spooks posting on this forum, or at least monitoring it? I mean, it is part of an online ecosystem of... Something. The chapo guys, brown Moses, 4chan, et al. Came from sa and they must have come across this lovely website at some point. :Tinfoilhat:
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Nov 14, 2022 10:41
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Goa Tse-tung posted:I mean Vilerat was literally CIA, there were tons of feds here during the Bush years (even if it was just for fun!). Why would they leave? Yeah. Always here, never left, mostly just poo poo posting on the clock (and systematically scraping all content and building graphs and sentiment analysis of posts/posters, but that'd largely be automated and likely poo poo quality).
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Nov 14, 2022 13:32
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i wish i could have a posting job instead of a real one. but not in benghazi.
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Nov 14, 2022 16:19
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gradenko_2000 posted:https://twitter.com/jkultra23/status/1592021074610638849 how is red tagging a business tactic.
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Nov 14, 2022 18:30
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late to the ship here but my favorite trueanon thing was when a bunch of listeners were complaining how boring this Peter Dale Scott dude was as a guest
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Nov 14, 2022 19:12
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Atrocious Joe posted:how is red tagging a business tactic. if you tag your competitors as communist they might get secret arrested
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Nov 14, 2022 21:07
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https://twitter.com/jimmyfalungong/status/1592299366886543360?s=46&t=IB1x-9o6YjgbNsgbJDE4XQ
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Nov 15, 2022 01:45
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Endman posted:https://twitter.com/jimmyfalungong/status/1592299366886543360?s=46&t=IB1x-9o6YjgbNsgbJDE4XQ hmmm quote:Controversies hmmmmmmmmmmm
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Nov 15, 2022 01:46
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Endman posted:https://twitter.com/jimmyfalungong/status/1592299366886543360?s=46&t=IB1x-9o6YjgbNsgbJDE4XQ this reminds me that i need to read that copy of a law unto itself ive got around here somewhere
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Nov 15, 2022 01:51
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gradenko_2000 posted:https://twitter.com/jkultra23/status/1592021074610638849 tell me more about the Philippines being the precursor to the American surveillance state
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Nov 15, 2022 02:06
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oh, that's easy, check out Julian Go on the subject, or theres an entire dang book about it
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Nov 15, 2022 03:55
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https://twitter.com/Snowden/status/1592168811075366913?s=20&t=jDVhOvaFpdzOzXXD0dICvQ bitcoin nsa/cia bait
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Nov 15, 2022 05:07
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Doc Hawkins posted:oh, that's easy, check out Julian Go on the subject, or theres an entire dang book about it but I want gradenko to spin me a yarn about it
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Nov 15, 2022 05:40
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Atrocious Joe posted:how is red tagging a business tactic. "Red-tagging" is the practice of very publicly accusing a person or organization of being members of the Communist Party of the Philippines - New People's Army, leading to either their murder by vigilantes, their murder by state security forces under very thin pretenses of having fought back, or their arrest by state security forces under trumped-up charges. The targets of red-tagging are mostly those on the electoral/activist left, who end up getting put in the crosshairs because of their ideological opposition to the [capitalist] government. Instead of arguing against these people, just call them stealth NPA members, and not only do you get the public to dismiss them out of hand, but you manufacture a reason to eliminate them entirely. Where it becomes a "business tactic" is when red-tagging is also applied to, say, labor leaders, bus driver union leaders, agrarian reform advocates, and other such figures who might not necessarily be leftist in any kind of fashion, but stand in the way of corporate interests. Instead of arguing against these people, just shoot them and rationalize it later as them having been caught with a rusty M-16 underneath their bed. It's also the case that the NTF-ELCAC, the National Task Force to End Local Communist Armed Conflict, formed during the Duterte administration, has a budget of hundreds of millions of pesos, which are disbursed to various barrios and townships, with the intent of "developing" these areas, under the liberal pretense that a sufficiently-prosperous municipality cannot become a recruiting ground for militant leftists, since the people are already well off and thus have no need to take up arms against the government. In practice, this is essentially a gigantic pork barrel and money laundering, where the government bribes certain localities with money coming from the NTF-ELCAC budget. NTF-ELCAC releases P16 billion to 812 ‘NPA-free’ barangays quote:The Barangay Development Fund of the National Task Force to End Local Armed Conflict (NTF-ELCAC) amounting to P16.24 billion (around $321 million) was already released to at least 812 barangays, according to the Department of the Interior and Local Government (DILG). ___ Marzzle posted:tell me more about the Philippines being the precursor to the American surveillance state The following is an excerpt from "In the Shadows of the American Century", by Alfred W. McCoy quote:The conquest of the Philippines unleashed the potential of these new technologies [the telegraph, the telephone, and the radio] to form the country’s first information regime as the army battled an extraordinary array of insurgents—national army, urban underground, militant unions, messianic peasants, and Muslim separatists. In the process, the colonial government formed three new services seminal for the creation of a counterintelligence capacity: a Division of Military Information, which developed internal-security methods later applied to the United States; the Philippine Constabulary that pacified the new colony’s insurgency through pervasive surveillance; and the highly efficient Manila Metropolitan Police. A straight reading of this is fairly self-explanatory, but you do get the sense that the practices established in the Philippines are the forerunner of what would later become things like the OSS and the FBI, and from there the CIA. Finding out scandalous information about high-profile personalities, and using it to either co-opt such persons or destroy their credibility in opposition, is SOP for intelligence ops. More specifically, this fits into the broader point of the Philippines being a testbed for various parapolitical plots enacted by the US, where you can draw a through-line from the counter-insurgency during the American occupation, to Edward Lansdale in the Philippines fighting communists, to Edward Lansdale in Vietnam, to the Phoenix Program in Vietnam, to the post-Vietnam refocusing on Latin America, to the post-9/11 counterinsurgency in Iraq and Afghanistan, and so on. Finally, Manuel L. Quezon isn't even the only Philippine President that was literally an intelligence asset: "Killing Hope" has an extensive chapter on Ramon Magsaysay being so in the pocket of the CIA that he was literally reading off of speeches by his handlers.
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Nov 15, 2022 11:09
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Shear Modulus posted:Guy learned the high school five paragraph essay and figured he was done insult to even high schoolers
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