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The remaster is fine but the remake was kinda ugly
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Nov 14, 2022 19:28
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| # ? May 17, 2024 06:41 |
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Shadow of the Colossus has a mood dependent on its draw distance. You aren't supposed to understand the true majesty and soul of a colossus until you're already so high up on it you can see into its eyes, but by then you're already in stabbing range. High resolutions and reduced fog and less chunky fur rendering all make that stuff less obscure, which is bad. EDIT: The remaster is mostly fine but has a bunch of weird technical quirks of its own, it's not particularly faithful on a physics level to the original NTSC release.
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Nov 14, 2022 19:29
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I can totally get what you're saying for things like art style and mood, it just seems weird to me to extend it to cover every single aspect of the original games as equally important. I guess it's just personal opinion, but things like the repetitive text boxes in LA seemed like obvious design flaws (or even bugs, like Twilight Princess resetting its item pickup tips after every shutdown) that annoyed me even back then. They were a part of the experience that I wanted to get rid of even at the time, I just can't imagine lumping them in with everything else that should be preserved.
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Nov 14, 2022 19:35
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To argue that we should never have remasters/remakes is to argue that the only version of Blade Runner we should ever have is the theatrical version, and I am simply not willing to abide that line of thought
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Nov 14, 2022 19:55
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Remasters are good, Remakes are often bad. Just like in film
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Nov 14, 2022 20:09
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Art is fuzzy. With some forms of art, there's an original to which reproductions can have varying degrees of fidelity; think of typesetting errors in an early edition of a book, or 480p vs. 4k transfers of a movie. This can't really happen with digital media, since all reproductions are exact. Sometimes the typo is in the manuscript and a later edition can fix it, and that can happen in games issuing bugfix patches. There are also details that are not considered relevant to the work. Many books, for instance, adjust the dimensions of the page and the typeface for reasons of economy, and in many cases is not considered a distinct work if things end up on different pages. Likewise, a painting is the same painting even if it's put in a different frame (except of course when it isn't - but in that case, the frame is part of the work, and the work is the same work if it's hung in a different wall, or something). With games, user-provided devices serve this purpose; it's the same game if you play it on a different television. Now, it's often the case that the same artist will remake one of their own works. A sculpture with a broadly similar subject and composition, with the same author, possibly aided by different assistants. It's easy to say that that's not the same sculpture: it's literally a different object, and reproductions wouldn't look the same either. But the later work may be presented in such a way to indicate that it supersedes the earlier. Perhaps they think that it more fully achieves their intention. Perhaps they identified a new technique. Perhaps they simply changed their mind. The trouble with all of this is that paratextual things like "what the artist thinks about the relationship between their new work with similar older ones" aren't part of the work itself, and the artist is dead, so who cares what they think. In the study of art, all editions, all versions, all utterances, are potentially of interest to the student. It's all just evidence to be considered to their own work. They're all different. Not only is the Switch version of Link's Awakening different from the Game Boy and Game Boy Color versions, but each language of both versions is different, each patch number is different, and running it in the official emulator on the 3DS with savestates is different. But are we here to study something that these works of art are evidence of, or are we here to have a good time? Comparing these different works of art with each other is still a meaningful topic. In this case, whether or not the legal author considers the later work to supersede the earlier one still doesn't matter. What matters is that the members of the audience think that it could. And that's exactly the kind of matter of opinion where statements like "it loving sucks to have to open the menu to change items so often" and "no it doesn't" are fair game.
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Nov 14, 2022 20:20
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Start talking to film people about when 'remasters' change color timing and see how calm that conversation goes
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Nov 14, 2022 20:21
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DoctorWhat posted:Games yearn for the spherical cow, the dopamine-optimized Game Product Slurry. I want to see art with all its flaws and quirks, and bugs and bad performance count. Bloodborne's long load times are part of the art experience, too, just like the interrupting rocks in Link's Awakening and the edge tile discoloration in Mario 3. "Fixing" that stuff aims to erase the technological and sociopolitical conditions in which the original art was made. Look, I agree that remakes shouldn't replace the original games despite how people often treat it that way, but "lovely load times are part of the Artistic Experience" is a loving stupid take
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Nov 14, 2022 20:28
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Captain Hygiene posted:I can totally get what you're saying for things like art style and mood, it just seems weird to me to extend it to cover every single aspect of the original games as equally important. I guess it's just personal opinion, but things like the repetitive text boxes in LA seemed like obvious design flaws (or even bugs, like Twilight Princess resetting its item pickup tips after every shutdown) that annoyed me even back then. They were a part of the experience that I wanted to get rid of even at the time, I just can't imagine lumping them in with everything else that should be preserved. Them annoying you is part of the experience; it should therefore be preserved. Video games are the sole media where "this technical detail (boom mic in shot, bad input lag, dodgy puppet) annoys me, let's replace it" isn't broadly recognized as vandalism the way it is with the Star Wars Special Editions.
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Nov 14, 2022 20:30
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Procrastine posted:Look, I agree that remakes shouldn't replace the original games despite how people often treat it that way, but "lovely load times are part of the Artistic Experience" is a loving stupid take The emotional experience of exploring Yharnam is absolutely influenced by the consequences of death. Load times are as much a part of that consequence as traversal back to your bloodstain. It's all one thing, it's holistic. Whether you enjoy that experience or not is a matter of taste; changing it for your consumer convenience is revisionist, putting art-as-product ahead of art-as-experience.
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Nov 14, 2022 20:33
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Shiroc posted:Start talking to film people about when 'remasters' change color timing and see how calm that conversation goes gently caress the remaster of Do The Right Thing.
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Nov 14, 2022 20:39
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DoctorWhat posted:The emotional experience of exploring Yharnam is absolutely influenced by the consequences of death. Load times are as much a part of that consequence as traversal back to your bloodstain. It's all one thing, it's holistic. Whether you enjoy that experience or not is a matter of taste; changing it for your consumer convenience is revisionist, putting art-as-product ahead of art-as-experience. No
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Nov 14, 2022 20:39
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DoctorWhat posted:Them annoying you is part of the experience; it should therefore be preserved. Video games are the sole media where "this technical detail (boom mic in shot, bad input lag, dodgy puppet) annoys me, let's replace it" isn't broadly recognized as vandalism the way it is with the Star Wars Special Editions. I remember specifically when FF VII came out on the Playstation people were impressed at how Square 'got out of' the load times between being on the map screen to the battle screen by having an animated transition in stead of just a black screen with "loading" appearing. In ways yes, stuff like this should be preserved, but unless it's being shown as some museum piece, I say gently caress loading screens. At the same time, I dislike when remasters etc give you the ability to speed things up on the fly. It's a complicated thing. But in the end, making the old style still available while a new version is made is the way to go imo.
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Nov 14, 2022 20:42
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Early games often ask the player to relate to the game imaginatively, understanding that what's being displayed is merely an abstraction. This naturally causes players to treat certain aspects of the program as inessential - compromises with technological limitations - and by extension, to consider changes to those aspects in subsequent editions as improvements revealing a more authentic version.
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Nov 14, 2022 20:59
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DoctorWhat posted:Them annoying you is part of the experience; it should therefore be preserved. Video games are the sole media where "this technical detail (boom mic in shot, bad input lag, dodgy puppet) annoys me, let's replace it" isn't broadly recognized as vandalism the way it is with the Star Wars Special Editions. How does this apply to games where things are literally broken? Like, is that lovely Avengers game flashing your IP address on the screen a part of the experience? Is Xenoblade 3's cooking literally not working and not doing any of the things the game tells you it should be doing a part of the experience? Like, if a movie got released, and it turned out that somehow the copy that got into Theaters had a 10-minute segment right in the middle where the screen just cut to black and the audio was all garbled, literally no one would say "Oh, that's a part of this movie's experience, you can't fix that scene it'll ruin things." If the mixing on a Band's new album was so poo poo that the shipped copy literally had no drums audible, literally no one would go "Oh, that's how this song is supposed to be, you can't add the drums back in it'll gently caress it up." This argument doesn't apply to just video games, it's just that video games by nature are the type of medium where this type of mistake is most noticeable and most easily fixed, so of course they're going to be fixed.
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Nov 14, 2022 21:07
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I'm a German Discworld purist and insist on having a soup advertisement inserted into the middle of the text
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Nov 14, 2022 21:18
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Less shitposty, for something like Star Wars, there are a tremendous number of small changes here and there even in the 'original releases' depending on the exact format and when a print went out. Stuff like Beru's dialogue being dubbed over. Attack of the Clones had an added cut to showing Anakin's metal hand during the wedding scene in the digital version because Lucas had a little bit longer to work on that version before sending it out to theaters. They both came out on the same day, so which one is the 'real' original version? Video games have the problem of hardware experience. Is any port of Link's Awakening real if you're not playing on a classic brick Game Boy? The first Ocarina of Time I played was a grey cart with the edits. Ganon's blood has always been green to me and I've never been in the Fire Temple with the chant.
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Nov 14, 2022 21:28
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Bongo Bill posted:Early games often ask the player to relate to the game imaginatively, understanding that what's being displayed is merely an abstraction. This naturally causes players to treat certain aspects of the program as inessential - compromises with technological limitations - and by extension, to consider changes to those aspects in subsequent editions as improvements revealing a more authentic version. Mmm, yes, good point. It's a shame that people can't realize that the abstraction is so often part of the art. DanielCross posted:How does this apply to games where things are literally broken? Like, is that lovely Avengers game flashing your IP address on the screen a part of the experience? Is Xenoblade 3's cooking literally not working and not doing any of the things the game tells you it should be doing a part of the experience? Like, if a movie got released, and it turned out that somehow the copy that got into Theaters had a 10-minute segment right in the middle where the screen just cut to black and the audio was all garbled, literally no one would say "Oh, that's a part of this movie's experience, you can't fix that scene it'll ruin things." If the mixing on a Band's new album was so poo poo that the shipped copy literally had no drums audible, literally no one would go "Oh, that's how this song is supposed to be, you can't add the drums back in it'll gently caress it up." This argument doesn't apply to just video games, it's just that video games by nature are the type of medium where this type of mistake is most noticeable and most easily fixed, so of course they're going to be fixed. I mean, your hypothetical disasterous movie master would absolutely be a culturally significant event that should be preserved and remain available, yes. A director's cut would be a nice bonus to be sure, but burying any form of mass cultural experience, including the results of accidents and mistakes and technical issues, is wrong. Without mistakes left in we wouldn't have Killer BOB. Or how about ... The Shining is a "glitchy" movie. The set burnt down halfway through filming and had to be entirely rebuilt, and the rebuilding was imperfect. The result is a movie full of minor continuity issues - missing furnature from shot to shot, disappearing electrical fixtures, etc. But the result is an eerie and unsettling atmosphere that absolutely adds to the resulting film, even if drawing narrative inference from those inconsistencies is dubious. If Kubrick "fixed" those "bugs" he'd be making a worse movie less capable of inspiring thought and inducing emotion.
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Nov 14, 2022 21:28
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Thinking that Link's Awakening for the Switch is better than Link's Awakening for the Game Boy isn't the same as saying that the video game cops should go around confiscating old Game Boy cartridges, my dude.
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Nov 14, 2022 21:54
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Is it truly the experience of playing Link’s Awakening if you aren’t constantly reading the same unskippable pop-up messages throughout the game? Surely the Switch version is blasphemy.
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Nov 15, 2022 00:00
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Is the Deluxe version disrespectful because the original game was only designed to be viewed in pea soup green?
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Nov 15, 2022 00:01
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Personally I think one of the greatest extras in a modern game was the Switch version of DQ XI having the ability to play as either the standard 3D style or as pixel art SNES style.
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Nov 15, 2022 00:03
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MokBa posted:Is it truly the experience of playing Link’s Awakening if you aren’t constantly reading the same unskippable pop-up messages throughout the game? Surely the Switch version is blasphemy.
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Nov 15, 2022 00:04
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hatty posted:Is the Deluxe version disrespectful because the original game was only designed to be viewed in pea soup green? It's not a matter of respect. When did I ever say respect? Anyway you absolutely lose parts of Link's Awakening by playing it in color. The game was designed for four-color pea soup as a vibe. Every sprite, tile, and screen is designed with that in mind.
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Nov 15, 2022 00:17
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am i committing cultural vandalism by playing it in greyscale instead of greenscale too?
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Nov 15, 2022 00:20
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Defacing non-DX Link's Awakening by using the keypress combos on a Game Boy Color to apply different basic palettes to the game
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Nov 15, 2022 00:23
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Not fully on board with the slurry thing, but I'm in favor of remakes including the original game as an unlockable whenever possible.
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Nov 15, 2022 00:26
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The cultural vandalism is when the original art is memory-holed. Playing derivative works to the exclusion of the original is just depriving yourself - except insofar as Gameing culture makes the pursuit of "technical improvement" mainstream at the expense of source material.
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Nov 15, 2022 00:46
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Any remake should include the original, or at the very least, be available for sale on modern platforms simultaneously. It's not good to have original versions of games lost to time and only reinterpretations available to purchase on modern hardware. I'm no fan of Bluepoint's remakes and the fact that those and similar remakes are treated as strictly iterative replacements going forward, at least in any real mainstream sense, is a big problem that is seemingly unique to video games considering the general lack of backwards compatibility. Remasters with QOL improvements are the way to go IMO. I don't think things like longer loading times or redundant messages in the Link's Awakening are in anyway removing the original essence of the game. Also, Bloodborne's loading screens were way longer at launch and didn't even have the item descriptions, until the first or second patch. Did FromSoft compromise their vision by doing so? To suggest that was anything less then an improvement is a bit nonsensical to me .
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Nov 15, 2022 00:50
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DoctorWhat posted:The cultural vandalism is when the original art is memory-holed. Playing derivative works to the exclusion of the original is just depriving yourself - except insofar as Gameing culture makes the pursuit of "technical improvement" mainstream at the expense of source material.
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Nov 15, 2022 00:51
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That Link's Awakening was originally a Game Boy game wasn't memory holed. Nobody is pretending that the Switch one is the one true Link's Awakening. The Final Fantasy 7 Remake literally has Remake in its name and operates in conversation with the original. The Resident Evil remakes coexist with the originals. The only thing that has gone away is that it becomes harder to get the older hardware with time.
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Nov 15, 2022 00:52
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Nintendo is actively in the business of restricting and manipulating access to their back catalogue. And here's the thing: you have no moral obligation to play Link's Awakening on a pea soup DMG-001 on 4 1991 vintage AA batteries. But Link's Awakening was designed and developed and programmed with that hardware and its associated cultural and economic context in mind. We're well into a generation raised on iPads with console-quality HD graphics and backlit touch screens and lithium-ion batteries, a generation that has no intuitive understanding of the conditions under which old games were made and played, and Nintendo likes it that way. When we ignore the history of how games were made and played, we cut ourselves, and those who follow us, off from the material realities in which they were created, too - and how those realities manifest themselves within the art. It's impossible to make it 1991 again. But through academic curiosity and exploration, we can preserve some of that context... if and only if we don't run screaming from glitches, inconveniences, and low-res graphics towards whatever polished 2022 Consumer Product IP Landlords jingle in front of us instead.
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Nov 15, 2022 01:04
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What is your argument here, that if a parent buys their six-year-old Link's Awakening on the Switch, they're morally obligated to explain the socioeconomic conditions of the creation and release of a game that may even be older than said parent at this point?
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Nov 15, 2022 01:08
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I've literally said a dozen times that it's not a moral issue on an individual level. But it would be really nice, and good for the medium and art and education in general, if Gamers could grow out of the prevailing Gamer Mindset that grievances with art can, should, and must be addressed via remakes, remasters, and revisionism. If Gamers could stomach even a moment of uncomfortable emotions like "annoyance" or "inconvenience" in the pursuit of cultural education and appreciation. Even the masses who go to see Marvel movies don't demand that Thanos's glove get patched to be higher-resolution in the quarry fight scene.
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Nov 15, 2022 01:15
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If someone wants to listen to Taylor Swift I berate them to listen to slave spirituals so they can understand the progression from those, to blues, to rock and roll. Otherwise they'll never understand the materialist conditions that created the art.
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Nov 15, 2022 01:15
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I do think it would be cool if music education was a part of schooling and if it included education on the history of different forms, yes. Oh no, knowing things, how horrible. God forbid we acquaint ourselves with anything other than that which is presently popular and easily consumed.
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Nov 15, 2022 01:19
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I'm making fun of you because you're pretending that people don't know these things already. Like I could toss off that shitpost because I knew but I don't consider it an obligation for everyone to know the whole history of art if they're excited about the new thing. https://www.theonion.com/cool-dad-raising-daughter-on-media-that-will-put-her-en-1819572981
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Nov 15, 2022 01:22
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Oh you stupid kid, you want a Playstation 5 to play God of War? You're going to sit right the down until you complete the curated hits of the Atari 2600 and you learn some loving appreciation.
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Nov 15, 2022 01:27
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the fact that, as software, games can be deconstructed, modified, or recreated for the sake of alteration or reimagining by theoretically anyone on a level not realistically possible for most other mediums is a good and interesting thing about games, and wrt non-commercial efforts they're either reliant upon or, in the case of decompilations, actively part of preservation. and frankly if we're talking nintendo, it's remakes like OOT3D and LA Switch that are way more likely to get lost to the sands of time since it's way easier to slap a rom onto whatever bad retro game service they have a decade from now than port something from more advanced hardware. the "intended experience" of nintendo's billion visual and hardware gimmicks are way more of a potential loss than the artistic heresy of gameboys with backlights.
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Nov 15, 2022 01:32
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| # ? May 17, 2024 06:41 |
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It's pretty hosed up and wrong that anyone enjoys art that I, personally, disapprove of
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Nov 15, 2022 01:35
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