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I just want to say that this thread is great and I love reading all these theories. I assure you guys if no one responds to them it's just because even vague responses can be leading. Also yeah, Rena is pretty great in Ep 2. She's so much smarter than Keiichi.
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Nov 15, 2022 14:53
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Yeah I'm also enjoying this but again, don't want to spoil anything. Nephthys posted:I just want to say that this thread is great and I love reading all these theories. I assure you guys if no one responds to them it's just because even vague responses can be leading. ftfy
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Nov 15, 2022 16:54
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I am incredibly entertained, and cannot wait for Scrree to read ep 5 of Higurashi.
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Nov 15, 2022 22:29
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Scrree posted:Tomitake This made me crack up during a meeting. "Poor Tomitake, thought of photography and died.".
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Nov 15, 2022 22:57
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Yeah, I've only just found this thread but I'm thoroughly enjoying the speculation, while also being aware that any commentary I could make would almost certainly be spoiler. Godspeed, you who challenge Oyashiro-sama and the golden witch Beatrice.
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Nov 15, 2022 23:14
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Has there been any word on Ciconia phase 2? I want to read the first one, but i don't want to commit to something with an uncertain schedule.
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Nov 16, 2022 18:33
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DemoneeHo posted:Has there been any word on Ciconia phase 2? I want to read the first one, but i don't want to commit to something with an uncertain schedule.
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Nov 16, 2022 18:36
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It'll come eventually
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Nov 16, 2022 18:37
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The only word is that Ryukishi needs to pay his bills and Ciconia's a passion project, so endless Higurashi reboots and Silent Hill (!!!) take priority. So, yeah. Eventually, but probably not soon.
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Nov 16, 2022 19:01
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Higurashi EP2 END speculation With Shion saying she's been followed, I'm thinking she got the crazy juice. It seems she's not only focusing her paranoia on the Town, but specifically on her sister, and putting Keichi in the same role Rena had last game Not really buying Shion's story of Mion being a Guerilla. I'm sure she damaged equipment, but her trying to induce Keichi to think of her in the same sphere as kidnapping and murder is ridiculous. I hate how little Keichi thinks of his friends, I miss Battler the man who would deny magic he just witnessed rather than blame his family instead of Keichi the Spineless the man who would betray his friend and the one who welcomed him into town because her sister who clearly hates her and has every reason to tear her down that he met days ago told him she was a terrorist. It seems Shion lives with her Father, the Sonozaki's are Matriarchal then. It seems the one writing the Scrapbook note TIPS is either Nurse or Photoman, my money is on Photoman I don't know If I believe that Rika would have the Padlock switched out if she's already forced to train with the heavy ceremonial Hoe everyday anyway maybe some sort of entrapment. I'm totally unsurprised Keichi is the type of guy to not know where his "Friends" live or their numbers, I assume he believes they only exist to serve his whims I forgot that Rena's real name is Reina Also Rika lives in a shack lmao if Satoko does live there as well I guess they're shacked up Ha called it. Amazing all the things Keichi doesn't pick up on, it's almost like hes a self absorbed rear end in a top hat  I'm dying lol We get confirmation that Satoko is also coming from an abusive childhood. And it seems that Mion is also on that crazy juice. OR it's Shion, pretending to be Mion to keep an eye on Keichi, and she's infiltrated the Sonozaki compound Oh man that would be sick if both of them were stuffed in the fridge Supposedly Ooishi had all the cars watching the temple compound in the TIPS and yet the villagers all got here before the police, what's up with that? Like the look of seeing the whole of the town from the hill Keichi, Rena knows what's going on because you are terrible at hiding things from people I love that after the Chief offers him protection, Keichi still decides to do absolutely nothing to make sure Mion doesn't end up dead or missing. From the TIPS it's interesting to see that Mion's Gramma, disowned her own daughter and seemingly Shion Oh, interesting it looks like Oryou, Mion's Grandma could be missing. Maybe, maybe if Shion is pretending to be Mion perhaps both of them are already dead. You'd think the police would be more interested in Shion if they suspect the Sonozaki's in general. When Oishi is talking to the Chief he says the culprits were wearing cloth around their heads, I don't remember that although I could be wrong, perhaps there was more than one group of intruders that night Also makes more sense that he's leaning so hard on Keichi after seeing how hard he's getting leaned on to gtfo of Three family business. The school is so sad without the rest of the GameCube This info about the food being prepared is nice to know, but shouldn't the police also have seen it. It's not exactly hard to see that there was food preparation going on. You really shouldn't be using plastic wrap if you can avoid it, glass containers and reusable plastic bags should have you covered for most things. There's very little reason for anyone to ever use Plastic Wrap in their lives. Rena goes into all that speculation but won't say what the house Satoko and Rika went to was. It was the Sonozaki compound, it has to be. You know, I don't think we've ever been to Rena's house. And she seems very disinclined to allow us there, something bad must be going on at home for her. Oishii says that the Nurse's body not only was immolated, but for some reason it's being investigated by a neighboring division despite the crime being done inside the Hinamizawanese jurisdiction. I'm thinking she isn't actually dead. I'd normally never say talk to the Police, but in a situation where all your friends keep dying and the one person you thought you could trust is also lying. Perhaps you should actually just start spitting facts Shion disappeared, so either Mion is pretending to be Shion or vice versa He drops that she moves houses, Shion that is. Is she really so disenfranchised that she doesn't even have a permanent home IDK Keichi who could possibly replicate Shion's voice, certainly not her loving twin sister you absolute clod Keichi, have you not consider that maybe your phone is just haunted? Shion definitely makes more sense for a culprit than Mion. If Oryou is dead, Shion has a reason to get rid of her to assume Mion's life as head of the Sonozaki family. And given what the detective dropped about her lack of home life I can see why she would be mad enough to go to such lengths. She manipulated the situation with the storehouse to create a pretense for her eliminating all of her enemies and the friends of her Sister Keichi, straight up homie. Just get on a train you can just leave. Keichi straining every last braincell he has, all three of them. "Yes, it seems everyone I've told the Shion on the phone about has ended up dying, I better tell her that I realize she's the killer, what could go wrong" The Soy Sauce note feels contrived  Yup, this is Shion Renachan, you remembered to bring that Ax right? Ah, yes Mion who was so involved with being a cultural ambassador from the village to the world now wants to tear down the historic house and replace it with modernity, it's almost like this person has a grudge against tradition What I think is happening is Ryukishi is setting it up for the story to see it as Mion being Shion, for the reader to pick up on it being Shion being Mion, and then the final reveal will be her shirt getting torn off revealing the Tatoo so then the reader will freak out when they "Realize" that it was actually Mion. Except we have no way of actually knowing that Mion has a Tatoo and even in the TIPS it was speculation. And we could have a Amidala situation where Shion is the Heir but she was sent away during the Dam conflict to protect her from the heat but now Mion has taken her status, or that the Tatoo isn't actually gotten until one takes up Headship of the Family, but Shion being a jealous crazy person went and got the Ink already for her own benefit.  There has been some sort of Malady in the village for decades then I don't know If I find this believable, a family amassing a fortune by working the black market during MacArthur's run as shogun. Oh no not unit 731 This story all seems shifty, despite what you might think raising humans for food is not a good use of time or investment. Battlefield cannibalism tends to be undertaken under desperate circumstances, Japan was under an incredible amount of strain logistics wise but canning Human meat and sending it out to the front was hardly a solution. Even getting it to the troops would be nearly impossible. What if the food isn't the basis of the familial fortune. The new clinic, the old disease that they just said they had in town, the dam construction, his connection with Unit 731 and the Occupation Authorities. What if the canned goods was a side job, and his real wealth came from allowing the town to be used as a testing ground for bacteriological weapons. They're probably not even using residents of the village, the clinic mentioned having a bus port despite the town being tiny and a much larger city being right next to it. People are probably being brought into the town to be experimented on as we speak, and Sonozaki's help was to guarantee the safety of the citizenry of the village and make fat stacks. But, the Dam was a cover to make an even larger facility, and when the Sonozaki's torpedo'd that plan, the agreement started breaking down. Now the citizens are fair game and the Hospital staff are using the pretense of the festival and town culture to cloak their secret war with the Sonozaki's and town culture. Luckily they found a pawn to strike back with with Shion, she also wanted to tear apart the village structure to get back at them and would be fully willing to go back into dealing with the secret cabal once that was done. So she colluded with the Nurse to enter the storehouse to create pretense for the curse, liquidated Oryou, Mion, and Rika, and accidentally Satoko. Faked the Nurse's death, and got rid of Tomitake. But she overplayed her hand and now the Cabal is going to use the police to get rid of her, and assume full control. Dude, "Mion" loudly confessing to the crime after being assured the police are right outside, and not showing her Tatoo. What if Shion is that good, she played them all. Mion is still alive, and now that she's confessed she'll switch places with her again, let Mion take the fall for all her actions, and become the uncontested leader of the village with zero stain on her honor Thirty minutes, just enough time to pull a switcharoo Godamn Keichi, you're fully moron today. Although Shion is awfully chatty for someone who has police ready to storm her compound Lmao at him getting stabbed after Shion warned him not to speak with her again. Dude just cannot help putting himself in danger. And then Oishii comes in with the last minute plot twist. I didn't see this Takano twist coming, but it seems obvious that she faked her death and used a previously strangled corpse. I'm curious as to how they identified the body, they didn't mention dental records which should be the only way. Then again how the hell can you tell an immolated corpse was strangled unless the strangulation was forceful enough to damage the bone. In which case how would you get a time of death. Is this the first time I'm actually seeing Keichi. Okay then, Ryukushi tried to make that scary I guess. Well that's the episode over. Despite them trying to make this one more a mystery this one seems a lot clearer to me, even with the break I took between. So Let's get it sorted before we go into the tea Party Mion is the heir to the Sonozaki's and Shion does not like that, but she's basically on the outside of events in the village and is possibly being watched over by the Yakuza that discovered the suicide in the Apartment. When she says the Doll Keichi didn't give Mion is the thing that allowed the Demon to take over she was not lying, but he was mistaken. It was because when he apologized to Shion mistakenly, she realized that he was Close to her sister, didn't know she had a sister, and she could use him to ingratiate herself with him and worse case scenario gently caress with her sister and Grandma, and best case somehow hijack the heirhood. At some point she may or may not have formed an alliance with Takano who was planning on faking her death, and getting rid of Tomitake. She also might have wanted to see if the Furude's had been hiding anything from the research her Cabal was doing in town, because the Shrine is on a hill, once the power of the Three Families is broken and the town flooded the Furude Shrine might be the only thing left. Also I think that the reaserch they had been doing is already complete, the flooding plan was to erase all trace under a million tons of water, and the Sonozaki's breaking with the Cabal is what's started this shadow war where both sides are using their influence in government and traditional town practices to eliminate their enemies. Regardless if Shion and Takano are working together or if Takano is just using Shion without her knowledge she fakes her death, and gets rid of Tomitake by drugging him. the Mayor may have been killed, or just fled the village after. At some point in the Chaos Shion sneaks into the Sonozaki compound, entraps Mion and kills Oryou. Her plan is at this point to break her sisters will by promising not to kill Keichi if she takes on Shion's identity and takes the fall for all the murders. Rika sees what's happening and meets with Keichi behind the schoolhouse, she is at this point covered in leaves and poo poo. And we know she blasted Shion with Crazy juice, so either Takano's assumptions were correct and the Furude's had some sample of the drug hidden, or she knew someone who could get her some from whatever facility that manufactures it, which is apparently close enough to the schoolhouse that someone could sneak their and back again without people freaking out. She realizes what Shion is trying to do with the Soy Sauce flyer, and takes the bait, alone hoping not to invlove Keichi and Satoko. She also might not realize how Homicidal Shion had already become at this point. She gets her drugged but ends up expiring and Satoko follows after her. Shion must realize what the drug does, which lends itself to her working with the Nurse. But says gently caress it and tries to burn down the whole edifice on her way down, framing Mion as the culprit and getting enough heat that the political connections can't prevent an investigation. What she didn't plan on was actually falling in love with Keichi, and using the last of her restraint she warns him about her. As she knows that once she escapes she's not going to get better. She kills Mion by throwing her down the Well with Oryou. And then takes her place again as her sister, and is taken into custody. Her answer's are incoherent and eventually she succumbs to her hallucinations in the Apt after she stabs Keichi. The ghost at the end was just Keichi being a hallucinating weirdo.
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Nov 17, 2022 22:02
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What are peoples' thoughts on false spoilers? If you see someone reading/playing something under the influence of false spoilers, is it worth mentioning? I'm kind of torn on it, because on one hand denying a spoiler is still providing information (and is a sort of indirect spoiler itself). But on the other hand, reading something while wrongly thinking you've had it spoiled can cause you to miss tons of important stuff and focus on the wrong things (since you're trying to figure out how everything fits with the spoilers you've heard and won't ever arrive at the actual correct understanding as a result). It's less of an issue if a story ends up fully revealing everything by the end, but some (like Umineko) are never explicit about a lot of stuff.
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Nov 17, 2022 23:50
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Ytlaya posted:What are peoples' thoughts on false spoilers? If you see someone reading/playing something under the influence of false spoilers, is it worth mentioning? I would say that whenever someone is reading/playing Higurashi/Umineko/Ciconia, and they mention that they have been spoiled about anything, as a blanket response, someone should remind the person that false spoilers are not uncommon for WtC. This reminder should happen regardless whether the spoilers in question are real or not. That way we get the effect of people at least considering the possibility that the spoilers are fake/misremembered.
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Nov 18, 2022 00:28
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i finished Minagoroshi last night. I'm going to take a decent break before moving on to the final episode both to process some thoughts, and also because my reading pace has cut into my sleep schedule a bit too much. at this point, the moment that crystalizes what Higurashi is for me is (episode 7 spoilers) very early on when Rika has just woken up from dying and is trying to process what's going on. Everyone runs up to her and asks if she's okay, and she looks at them and thinks, "These are my friends. I'm never bored around them and I love them very much." and it's so simple but I can feel it in my heart and that's impressive.
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Nov 18, 2022 15:50
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Scrree posted:i finished Minagoroshi last night. I'm going to take a decent break before moving on to the final episode both to process some thoughts, and also because my reading pace has cut into my sleep schedule a bit too much. Episodes 6 and 7 are just awesome in general. I won't say more until you type up thoughts on them.
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Nov 18, 2022 15:55
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MegaZeroX posted:I would say that whenever someone is reading/playing Higurashi/Umineko/Ciconia, and they mention that they have been spoiled about anything, as a blanket response, someone should remind the person that false spoilers are not uncommon for WtC. This reminder should happen regardless whether the spoilers in question are real or not. That way we get the effect of people at least considering the possibility that the spoilers are fake/misremembered. This would come off as patronizing to me. Most of the things I'm spoiled on I got from the fan wiki, and I'm not going to take you seriously when I can just go reread the wiki to double check (and probably spoil myself on more stuff accidentally). So in the end, I'll just decide that I'm remembering correctly and keep reading under false assumptions. If I'm that badly thrown off about it, just point out what my false impression is and tell me that it isn't true. The problem isn't information itself, the problem is the feeling of certainty. So Math fucked around with this message at 15:01 on Nov 19, 2022 |
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Nov 19, 2022 14:59
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So Math posted:This would come off as patronizing to me. Most of the things I'm spoiled on I got from the fan wiki, and I'm not going to take you seriously when I can just go reread the wiki to double check (and probably spoil myself on more stuff accidentally). So in the end, I'll just decide that I'm remembering correctly and keep reading under false assumptions. Deliberately re-reading spoilers should someone dare to imply you may have been misinformed seems like a very specific you problem, to be honest.
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Nov 19, 2022 23:07
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I want to write about episodes 5-7, but I'll probably touch on stuff from the question arc as well. I've read the scenario description for episode 8, and I know it's the single longest chapter. otherwise, I have no idea what the end of Higurashi is. This is my last stop before the end, so before I dive in I'm going to stretch out wide and see what I can touch #Higurashi Episode 5: Meakashi AKA here's what happened in episode 2. which I really needed because I did not put together Watanagashi at all. I knew enough to know that I didn't understand it, which is maybe better than nothing? so for people like me who need it, Meakashi gently lays out the whole deal of why Shion went 110% curse-brain and got her murder on the entire Hinamizawa elite. (sidenote: everytime I write Mion I mean Mion, and everytime I mean Shion I mean Shion. Even when referring to the the times when Shion is pretending to be Mion, or even before the demon tattoo -- when Mion was Shion and Shion was Mion -- if I write Mion that always means == Mion, Shion == Shion. also I am going to refer to 'Hinamizawa Syndrome' as curse-brain.) alright, I'm gonna lay it out there: Meakashi may be the most pathetic romance I've ever experienced. not the 'worst', but like the last conversation Shion and Satoshi ever have is Shion introducing herself jesus christ girl you literally threw his little sister into a wall before he knew you existed as an extant person -- to keep on the baseball theming that's like negative first base!!! in Shion's pretty dire circumstances her obsession with Satoshi does make sense, but it also strays close to the bland cliché of 'a woman's mental world is wholly centered on the guy she likes.' speaking of the circumstances, what are they? it actually isn't lingered on much (lingering is reserved for Satoshi) since at the start of the story Shion's at least feigned to have made peace with it, but as she gets increasingly curse-brained it rears up more and more: Shion had everything she ever had stolen from her, on accident, by the person she loved most. Shion was the heir meant to inherit, Mion was the younger twin destined to be exiled, and on the wrong day Shion did Mion a small favor and it hosed her life up. only the Sonozaki sisters know about this (or maybe others know but refuse to acknowledge it, which amounts to the same thing) and it never comes up in the other chapters, but while the text of Meakashi is focused on Shion and spotlighting all the ways it set up her tragic fate, it's also key to understanding Mion as a character. like, Shion is a bold, aggressive, a bit bratty, reasonably selfish, horny for headpats, we get a whole chapter from inside her perspective and have a lot to work with in terms of who and why she is. But Mion? #Mion I'm gonna stop and talk about Mion because Mion is a main character who basically never gets to be in the spotlight. Onikakushi (well, specifically Ooishi) tries to set up Mion as the intimidating yakuza heiress, and then Watanagahsi very intentionally muddies the waters with all the terrible crimes ''Mion'' confesses to, but looking at Higurahshi 1-7 as a whole I don't think Mion ever truly throws a punch? The closest she gets is when she confronts Shion over her eavesdropping, and that's immediately followed by her getting big dogged by Shion and being and very, very, very badly tortured for three days. (Mion's dialogue from her prison cell is wrenching. it's incredibly sad to imagine what Meakashi is from her perspective) Mion wields her power as the Sonozaki Heiress like she's borrowing it because in her heart she feels like she is. when Shion's pretending to be her sister and gets confronted by the three delinquents she thinks "Heh, these idiots don't know they're messing with 'Mion Sonozaki' right now. This will be fun!" and I don't think the actual Mion would ever feel that way. iirc there's a point in Minagoroshi where Rika is contemplating that she's never seen Mion go curse-brained because she's either 'too prudent or cowardly' and then laughs at herself for being so mean. but it's true, Mion is timid and a lot of trouble comes from the fact people don't expect that of her and assume her hesitation is malice. we get told who Mion is by a lot of characters and much of what we hear is wrong. we don't get a lot of story from her perspective, she's the only member of the club not to get their own focus episode (Watanagashi focuses only on 'Sonozaki', not Mion Sonozaki, if that makes sense) she's continually called out for two key weaknesses -- being hesitant in times of crisis and being unable to express her true desires -- both stemming from the key moment of trauma where she stole her sister's fate. "I can't risk what I unfairly gained."/"I can't ask for what I want in case I take more than I'd ever wish for." despite this she's a good friend. Rena dodges a double murder in episode 7 because she talked with Mion and got good advice. she never hesitates to back her friends up when they need it. she doesn't hold a grudge from being smacked in the face with a hatchet handle. her issues are never explicated like the other club members, but the outline is visible even so. also, why the gently caress does her original sprite have a gun?????????????? #back to romance 1982 is a miserable year for Shion. She lives in Okinomiya, but can't go out in public without pre-planning with her sister because they both fear their grandmother's disapproval. it makes sense that she'd cling to Satoshi after she meets him because her arrangement gives her incredibly limited agency and Satoshi is the only non-familial human connection she can reach. it is, again, deeply pathetic. I think it's a success of the tragedy that I believe they could have had a cute relationship if, again, their situations weren't so constricted that their last conversation wasn't her introducing herself to him. also she threw his little sister against a wall #THE SONOZAKI CURSE the Sonozaki's eat every curse in the village of Hinamizawa. they think it's a good thing because it makes them intimidating, but it also makes them absolutely unapproachable. Mion and Shion are convinced that if the family head learns Shion is in Okinomiya than it's all over, but that bridge eventually gets crossed and after a fairly embarrassing apology from Shion it turns out-- actually she can just stay in Okinomiya without much issue. everybody self-disciplined around an expectation that when tested had significantly different results. this is a big theme of higurashi. something that really gets curse-brained Shion pissed off is when she thinks about she couldn't help Satoshi because she wasn't 'Mion Sonozaki', but at the time she wasn't even Shion Sonozaki at the time! she was just Mion's shadow at the time, and coming into the light was something that could've been accomplished but she was too scared to do. would Satoshi's burdens have been easier if instead of having one of his classmates wildly vary in temperament seemingly inexplicably, there was someone else in town interested in helping him and listening to his troubles? pro ba loving bly. it is very funny to me that the conspiracy of Miyo Takano is a parasite curse because it's also a 'parasite curse' -- the contradictions of maintaining secret operations for years could only be managed by being buried within the broader structure of the Sonozaki family. accumulating crimes and bad vibes in their name let's 'Tokyo' wriggle around unencumbered. it's interesting that this curse permeates not just the broader investigation, but even the internal family dynamics of the Sonozaki family (I can't imagine it's unintentional writing. in some ways the entire point of eps 1, 2, and 5 is to show how Keiichi the total outsider and Shion the Hinamizawa native fall for exactly the same trick) #The epiphany/Satoko's magic pt.1 Shion captures, tortures, and murders Satoko because she blames Satoko's weakness (i.e. an abused 7yo not being 'strong enough') for why Satoshi disappeared. this scene's pretty grotesque, but it's also the first time the two people most hurt by Satoshi's onikakushi ever talk to each other. which means it's the first time Shion has had the opportunity to realize how bad she hosed up. when Satoshi died it devasted Satoko, but she struggled through it by believing that one day he would return and used that belief that to motivate herself to grow as a person. who would Satoshi want her to be? who was the Satoko that would be able to look him in the eyes with pride? how could she grow strong enough to be the one to help him instead? these are the questions that drove her over the last year, and Satoko's answers to these questions is a huge part of Higurashi as a story. Shion, on the other hand, only sought the answer to one question: how do I punish those who took Satoshi away from me? she spent a good amount of time with him and did love him enough to be able to see through his eyes, but she never gets there until she sees that Satoko already has. and at that point, Shion's torturing her to death, which is not ideal. #Final Thoughts on Meakashi I do not like being in Shion Sonozaki's head. she's not poorly written. her character naturally follows from her circumstances: the heiress loses her birthright and is stunted by years of (effective) imprisonment. she escapes to a life she doesn't know how to live, feels the spark of love and covets it, and when even that is ripped away from her is placed at a crossroads. does she let the love inspire her to life, or does she let it's loss fester into madness? that's cool! but the Meakashi is basically a episode-sized Bad End and the sheer size of the text exhausts the premise. the most interesting parts of Meakashi are seeing the other characters through Shion's eyes. I wrote about Mion and Satoko above. Rika shows why it's hard to be a 8yo ninja and performs a pretty horrifying death sequence. Rena gets to be the subject of one of the loving funniest lines in all of Higurashi -- at the very end when Shion's curse-brain is terminal she reflects on how she fooled everyone. Then she pauses, thinks of Rena, and goes "That girl could tell the difference between Mion and I through smell!" which is absolute nonsense and not even true. Rena's such an intimidating opponent that Shion can't help but attribute beastial superhuman senses to her and that's incredible. oh, also, the Sonozaki-grandfather-japanese-bioweapon-cannibalism-division thing that I thought had to be incredibly important? that turned out to be nothing more than a garbage red herring sourced from Miyo Takano. she got me... #Higurashi Episode 6: Tsumihoroboshi I will remember the opening segment of Tsumihoroboshi until the day I die. it's incredible. this entire episode is loving incredible and I would read another million words through Rena's perspective. I've already written a lot on Higurashi and I'm going to write even more (probably got at least another huge post out for the finale after all) but I want to avoid writing synopsis. everyone reading this knows Higurashi and from my own experience finishing Umineko I know it's the reaction, analysis, and speculation that are the real show. that said, I feel compelled by every firing neuron in my brain to transcribe Rena's opening monologue Rena Ryuuga posted:"...There's one thing I want to say... before anything else. ...I think I did the right thing. I wonder how much we're allowed to struggle in order to be happy. That's why I really like Mii-chan's club. ...The one rule is to do whatever it takes to win, right? I think that's wonderful. ...If we were only allowed to do nice things, and if there was a limit to how much we could struggle... people who aren't happy wouldn't be able to seize happiness at all. Misfortunes are like a chain reaction, I think. Once they begin, they're very, very hard to escape. In order to escape the chain of misfortunes, you need more than just luck or even assistance. I think you need to struggle as hard as you possibly can. You need to do your best. That's how you seize true happiness. That's what I believe. But... I'm not saying I expect you to accept what I did. ...I know that was a very bad thing to do. Didn't you all look stunned a while ago? That tells me everything... ...But, it's okay. There's nothing we can do about it. That's just how things are in this world. If I were you... I'd probably look just as stunned, and I'd say something irresponsible and merciless. jesus christ. Higurashi episodse 1-5 are good, ya'know? but they're good in the way that going through a haunted house is good. you're seeing a lot of different things one after another. there is excitement in the novelty. there is joy in contemplating the horror. there is anticipation as to what to comes next. and then you open chapter 6 and suddenly you're strapped into a loving rollercoaster and you feel yourself lurching higher and higher with no idea how far down you're going to go. #A Tamed Animal/Satoko's Magic pt. 2 "A tamed animal won't leave it's cage, even when the door is open." thank you Rena for spoiling the plot of Minagoroshi for us. I wanted to write about how in Higurashi the situation of someone being in reach of salvation, but refusing to grasp it because they've been trained/trained themselves not to occurs over and over. but it's honestly almost too big to write about because, well, if I'm going to write about how Rena's father's refusal to acknowledge that he's being played in a badger game is related but not identical to how Rena finds herself trapped in deadend conspiratorial thinking that only her friends can save her from is related but not identical to how Rika fails to recognize that she won't even be able to tell if salvation is in reach if she doesn't struggle to reach it I may as well start putting these words on paper because I'm going to be making a book. I will talk about Satoko for a bit because of how it relates to what I wrote earlier. Rena calls everyone who was in Hinamizawa in 1982 out for failing to help Satoshi, and she even places that failure on Satoko. to Rena, whose personal life before coming to Hinamizawa was defined by the dissolution of her parents marriage and her 'failure' to prevent it, even a child has a responsibility to struggle. Rena says that Satoko has sinned, and Satoko replies, I know, Satoshi's not coming back. In Meakashi Satoko's faith in Satoshi's return is so striking that it reaches Shion and is foundational to the conclusion having any meaning at all. Yet here, not under duress, talking honestly with her friends Satoko admits her brother is dead. it's not the focus of the scene and her admission doesn't even effect the plot, but similar to how I wrote about Mion above I think it's a key to seeing the heart of her character. Satoko knows Satoshi is gone but 'believes' he will return because that's the only way she could live. feelings are real, right? no child can grow strong living under endless abuse or endless grief, and Satoko choose a path of self deception that, while fragile, let's her keep living, growing, and making her brother proud. #Bullet Point Time Tsumihoroboshi is harder to write about than Meakashi because it's so loving good that I want to write about everything. which I don't want to do since that'd be even more exhausting to read + I want to finish this thing so I feel cleared to start episode 8. it's disconnected bullet point time: * Rena, Keiichi, Satoko, and Mion are all haunted by sins of the past. their guilt is variously rational -- Keiichi terrorized children with a bb gun. that's a legitimately bad thing to do, and while he did eventually realize what he was doing was wrong it was only after causing real harm. Mion 'stole' her sister's life on accident, and the guilt is further compounded by the fact that the crime was a secret. only Mion knows she 'shouldn't' be Mion, but once the demon went on her back Mion was all she could be. Rena and Satoko are both haunted by 'not being strong enough' to maintain their family, even though they were the youngest members of those families and in no way culpable for them breaking. Rika doesn't have time to feel guilty about anything because she still needs to struggle just to attain a future. * Oyashiro-sama stopped being divine to Rena the moment she got a scientific explanation for what she went through. which is extremely funny and unexpected to me. she felt maggots in her blood, doctors were no help at all, Oyashiro-sama *did* help her and get her to Hinamizawa where things got better so oyashiro-sama must be real + important. what's this? it was actually parasites intensifying feelings of anxiety and homesickness? then in this moment, I am euphoric. not because of any phony god's blessing. but because, I am enlightened by the bugs in my brain. * I was so happy to Ooishi finally face some comeuppance for making children violently paranoid just to use them as bait for the Sonozaki's. * I feel ambivalent about Keiichi's miracle. on the one hand, we as readers had to go through the question arcs and those tragedies being brought back and redeemed, even if only partially through 'impossible memory' magic is satisfying. it's easier for me to like Keiichi as a character after he acknowledges how much rear end in a top hat he was in Onikakushi because yeah, he was, but now he can grow from it. on the other hand, I cannot remember mistakes that alternative versions of myself have made. that's why it's a miracle and why it continues to be a miracle in Minagoroshi, but it feels a bit untethered to a reality I can relate to. * again, Higurashi's format rewards it's story. so, so many times in Tsumihoroboshi I felt real dread as things slipped further and further towards a tragic end. Rena Ryuuga's 'come behind victory' is preceded by half a million words of tragedy, so when I saw her walk into that classroom with a hatchet it felt like, oh, I guess this is how everyone dies this time. everyone (including Rena!) struggling to avoid that tragic fate and succeeding was so compelling because it really did not feel guaranteed to happen. * lmao at all the eggheads in Minagoroshi talking about "Hinamizawa's Syndrome certain fatality" when Rena's out here tanking through terminal curse-brain twice in one life. queen poo poo. #Tsumihoroboshi Final Thoughts I really liked being In Rena Ryuuga's head. she's loving cool. looking back from the vantage point of episode 7, it's hard not to see Higurashi 1-5 as piles and piles of fuel that Tsumihoroboshi uses to ignite and take off. it is very, very successful at playing the razor's edge between comic and tragic. when Rena becomes the focal point of Ooishi's investigation everybody in Hinamizawa mobilizes to protect her (well, except the gardeners...), and the end result is she is driven further into paranoia. the scene where she's huddled into a blanket in an abandoned car hiding from people who want to take her to safety and starting to rip her own throat out from the sheer fear of it all is just deeply sad. solidarity matters in Higurashi. real change only emerges from collective action, being (kind of almost) right about everything doesn't matter if you're wrong about everyone. speaking of -- the conspiracy. idk if I read something about 'Higurashi Parasite plot twist' before but I immediately picked up that Takano's notebook was 80% truth and 20% poison. it's an interesting and super, super goofy reveal (and it gets even goofier in Minagoroshi) but again, Higurashi's format rewards it's story. the twist is allowed to be a little goofy because by the point Tsumihoroboshi is finished the people still reading are going to be committed. the story has shown that it can reward commitment. when I started this point I thought I was going to write a lot about Rena's relation to the medical system. she's really the only character to have her issues discussed in stark psychiatric terms, and on the interest I've seen people discuss her as 'the crazy girl from Higurashi' but objectively speaking her curse-brain episode is still more rational than Keiichi's (a low bar or sure) and far less sadistic than Shion's. it seems like she gets the label of being the crazy one because she's an intense female character + she went through psychiatric care as part of her backstory, which feels ugly in a way. Tsumihoroboshi could be read as "Rena Ryuuga is crazy but her friends can bring her back to reality." and I think that read is insufficient to the text. Ryushiki7 is an increasingly interesting author to me and their view of Javanese institutions stands out as being nuanced and critical, which is a rare combination in 'nerd culture'. #Higurashi Episode 7: Minagoroshi "This is no longer a story, this is a public autopsy for all to join. As they say, after loving someone, cut open their belly and eat their organs." is a hell of a way to start the episode. but it's true, the cat's out of the bag. we're in Rika Furude's head, she's not alone in there, also she has depression. #Rika as 'audience surrogate' Rika has forgotten more about Higurashi than any franchise loving nerd could ever know. it makes the perfect protagonist for this last stretch of the story, and it also makes her extremely funny. "Mion's never killed me, which makes her a coward." and "If Keiichi or Shion flip out when Teppei shows up they wait until the night of Watanagashi. Rena has him dead and buried for three days before the festival." were some of the biggest laughs I've gotten from the entire story. all of her cynicism is anchored in a deep, deep love. I posted it earlier, but right when she wakes up in the Minagoroshi fragment= she sees Rena, Keiichi, Mion, and Satoko and thinks "These are my friends. I'm never bored around them and I love them very much." and it hits. a reoccurring thought Rika has through Minagoroshi is that she's been acting as a spectator when she's actually an actor, and that what she needs to remember to break through the curse. I noticed after revisiting the Tsumihoroboshi that Keiichi yells something about a curtain call at the very end, and there are continuous references to 'the devil's script'. the plot of Higurashi seems to be: Rika Furude is stuck in a timeloop of unavoidable tragedy, how does she and he friends overcome this? but what is the metaplot? why are the fragments called fragments (fragments of what exactly?). the start of Minagooshi is very opaque, but I do wonder if fragments =~ fiction and the fact that characters other than Rika are subconsciously recalling events from previous episodes is a kind of 'script bleed'. #The Humans of Hinamizawa so the core conceit of the Minagoroshi fragment is -- actually, before I can say that I have to confirm how Rika's 'timelooping' power works. When Rika dies, her consciousness is transferred into the body of another Rika Furude. at this point in the story she's stuck in June 1983, but 'earlier' Rika and Hanyuu could go back much further. in episode 4 we say that Rika was a witch even in 1978, so we can assume that for her first couple timeloops she effectively went back to the moment of her birth. the new causality of reality she wakes up in is only determined by probability. there's a 1% chance that Keiichi Maebara won't move to Hinamizawa, so 1% of the time she wakes up in a world without Keiichi. this is an incredibly weird and disorienting form of time travel, and I can get why by the time we get into her head in Tsumihoroboshi she's almost completely burned out. she experience have a world where a miracle occurs, dies, and then completely arbitrarily wakes up in a doomed timeline where the conditions for victory are obviously not present. of course the core conceit of the Minagoroshi fragment is the opposite of that. through the mystical power of 'trusting their friends and talking about their feelings' the Hinamizawa game club has gotten their poo poo together so hard they've already prevented the conditions of multiple murders by the time Rika wakes up. Rika keeps thinking about it as throwing a handful of die and getting a six on every roll. (hey wait, wasn't one of Keiichi's 'I'm a very smart boy' test results that he could imagine and construct a 22-sided die in his head?) Akasaka shows up! Shion flipped her 'treasure/torture' coin and it landed firmly on the 'don't dismember what Satoshi treasured most in this world.' and is now hanging out with the club cooking nutritious squash for Satoko every schoolday. it's a jackpot! Teppei comes back and kidnaps Satoko. this sends Rika into a deep depression. Akasaka is useless! apologies that this is effectively just summary but: the club doesn't give in to despair, and because they've all learned the value of communication it opens new avenues that were invisible in previous timeloops. they execute a classic non-violent pressure campaign, identifying which government agency they need to sway in order to achieve their goal, making demands on them, and continually escalating when those demands are ignored. the final step is to overcome 'the curse of Sonozaki / Rule Z', the villagers of Hinamizawa are bound by 'assumed rules' that no one actually has any interest in enforcing, but because they've never been broken no one knows that and so it forms a kind of social barrier. the club breaks through that barrier and achieves perfect victory. #The Demons of Hinamizawa if Minagoroshi were not episode 7 of Higurashi and instead it's own stand alone story I would think that it's plot was trite and saccharine. once Keiichi and the club decide to do something they've already achieved victory, and that's not a realistic depiction of social struggle. sometimes people have real competing interests and won't join your side with a single impassioned monologue. but within the broader context of, idk how else to say this, contemporary nerd culture I think it works really well. nerd culture is obsessed with the 'knowing elect'; the idea that certain people become important to the world because they realize some fundamental truth and that transforms them into them agents of change. the Matrix is a good example of this: it's a film written and directed by trans-women about overcoming the programming of stultifying mass culture and realizing liberation and joy for the first time in your life in a community of fellow travelers. but it's also a film about how being able to read code makes you a demigod who has transcended the cage all the dull-eyed sheeple don't even know they're in. it's why the red pill, a metaphor for hormone therapy, was effectively colonized as a term by resentful reactionaries. Higurashi says victory comes from solidarity and only from solidarity. the secret that Mion's grandfather restored the family to wealth by selling canned human meat does not matter. I expected it to matter because in most stories something like that could not be mentioned without being critically plot important but that expectation itself is 'the curse of Miyo Takano'. it's a poison pill designed to distract you from the fact that what really matters is that nobody feels like they can have an honest conversation with Mion because they don't trust their friendship will matter more than the duties of the Sonozaki family. it is the living relationships we are in that define our possibilities, not occult secrets of the distant past. even the tragedy of 'rule Y', the fact that Rika Furude must always die and with it the village of Hinamizawa, stems not from centuries long machinations but by simple political infighting in a ultra-nationalist secret society. "rally, fight, win" is boring. "rally together, fight together, win together" is much more interesting and that's what takes Minagoroshi above trite power fantasy. it's also complicated by the fact that after achieving their perfect victory all of Rika's friends get field executed in a forest before she's tortured to death. Higurashi's format reward it's story. it can withstand goofy twists and straightforward plots because they're embedded in a larger and richer structure. so to finally get to 'the demons of Hinamizawa' -- there are no demons in Minagoroshi. rule X and rule Z are defeated (and can only be defeated) with human solidarity, but rule Y? the mountain dogs are a legitimate outside force with ill intent. they don't give a poo poo about the social life of the village because they aren't part of it. it's why Ooishi gets got so bad, he can't imagine what he's dealing with and bares his neck to a beast with no need to hold back from killing. Oyashiro-sama is said to have allowed the humans and demons of Hinamizawa to live in harmony. not suppress the demons, or make them servants of humans, but to live together. I think that the conclusion of Higurashi will include a return of the demons of Hinamizawa. I understand that's kind of a vague and maybe cowardly prediction since it's so metaphorical, but I feel pretty strongly that the move Ryushiki7 will make next is to admit that yeah, sometimes violence is the only way to protect the thing you love. #Bullet Point Time 2 * I am submitting a formal apology to the office of Dr. Coach Irie. When I preemptively called you a 'disgusting war criminal' with 'horrific vibes' I can see I basing that assessment on some shaky assumptions. I hope this will not affect our professional relationship going forward. * Takano's original nurse sprite is so inappropriately horny lmao. * the Akasaka twist of 'he shows up and is completely irreverent' is so, so loving funny. of course Higurashi would dangle the possibility of outside salvation in front of the reader and then smack them in the head and yell "Just talk to your friends! The police will never protect you!" * Rika's internal life is so interesting, funny, and sad all at once. I haven't mentioned Hanyuu at all because it's obvious she's going to 'matter' a lot more in episode 8, but the journey she and Rika have to take to recognize that while hope is the first step on the road to disappointment, it's also the first step on the road to liberation. Can the tamed animal know the door is open if they're not trying to escape? * another huge topic that could support it's own book -- gender in Higurashi. I think it's very interesting how in Watanagashi Shion is a introduced as a 'more feminine Mion' and here in Minagoroshi she echoes Keiichi's words about 'only needing 1500 seconds to kill Teppei'. so much of Keiichi's protectiveness was assigned to him being a surrogate older brother to Satoko, but truth the time loops reveal is that these gendered positions aren't determinate of much, and that anyone who loves Satoko feels the urge to put Teppei Houjou six feet under. * the plot point of Satoko suffering from terminal curse-brain and needing to be continually medicated to suppress surprised me. it explains the ending of episode 3 a lot more, and there was a obviously foreboding line about how Satoko must not remember 'that incident' which will very likely be shown in the final episode. I wonder if the fact that Rena seems to have overcome terminal curse-brain of her own volition without needing medical aid will come up as a plot point? * I hate all of the otaku culture jokes, and I hate when Keiichi gets 'harem lead accolades' like Mion's mother going 'I wonder which of my daughters you'll choose fufufufu.". the scene where Keiichi rallies the otaku of Angel Mort being placed adjacent to a scene where Satoko begs her uncle not to destroy her brother's room felt like I had a documentary on warcrimes committed in the Iraq war be interrupted by having my head dunked into a toilet full of confetti. it's the humor of it's time, but I'm so glad it's a lot less prominent in Umineko/Ciconia. #Final Thoughts on Minagoroshi Minagoroshi succeeds. it succeeds on being a public autopsy of the mystery. it succeeds on showing the human side of Hinamizawa. it succeeds on delivering Rika from a place of powerless depression to optimistic struggle in the face of impossibility. it's cool and I really liked reading it! If I have one gripe about it's that I think Rika should give Rena a bit more credit for the miracle of Tsumihoroboshi; Rena's opening monologue there is basically the answer Rika found at the end of Minagoroshi and I wish Keiichi didn't get all of the credit. I won't lie and say I don't have some worries about the final episode. the ending of Umineko had some incredible peaks, but it was not my favorite part of Umineko. having taken the time to stop here, right before the end, and look back at Higurashi as a story I can say that for me the layering of tragedy of episodes 1-5 have already been rewarded with episodes 6+7. even if Matsuribayashi misses half of it's big swings I don't think I'll be disappointed because the stories already put so many runners through home. baseball metaphor. but I'm also excited! I know Higurashi is franchised the gently caress out with tons of spinoffs and pseudo-sequels, but I'm about to reach the end of a story I've really enjoyed sinking my teeth into to. every post I've made here has been bigger and more ponderous than the last and it's probably unbearably pretentious at this point, but this has been fun for me. all that stands before me is the "showdown between the conclusion you reached and the one I reached." I do not know what the gently caress that means, but I do know that I will probably be back here soon, tearing open the guts and talking about how fun it was to learn was kept inside. Scrree fucked around with this message at 20:43 on Nov 20, 2022 |
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Nov 20, 2022 16:02
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Nov 20, 2022 16:04
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A few things: First and most importantly, please either edit away your vague-posting spoilers about Umineko or include a warning that you do so in the post. For context on what I'm referring to: The first is the mention of Shannon and hinting at identity things with her. The second is the vague-posting about the Umineko theme about false beliefs. On the actual content, I can finally start to comment on things. (I will include allusions/comparisons to Umineko alongside spoilers for Higurashi 1-7) Yes, Rena is the best, and chapter 6 is also just amazing in general. One of my favorite things is how Rena's previous mental breakdown is handled. In episode 1, particularly if you believe in Keiichi's delusions, but even if you don't, the information about Rena's past unfairly taints your image of her. Rena in chapters 1-5 is nothing more than a loving friend who does her best, but as seen in earlier reactions, people don't trust her. Readers other her just because of her old mental break. Even when people shed having a completely negative impression of her, the readers, much like Shion in chapter 5, treat her unlike they treat the other characters. It is worth noting, since you mention Keiichi's remembering miracle being unique and as such negative, that everyone remembers a little in chapter 7. It is strongly implied that all characters overcame their own tragedies by remember lessons from their respective chapters. Keiichi and Rena remember about being open with friends and Shion remembers about living for the future and not the past. In general, Higurashi's main themes hit home more than Umineko's. I would define the 3 main ones as follows. The first is is about mental health, and helping people with mental issues without treating them particularly differently (beyond the minimal). The second is, as you mentioned, actually working to reach your salvation. And the third primary one is trusting support network you have around you when times get tough. All of these are much easier to apply to your life than "sometimes the truth isn't worth seeking" and "don't fixate your life on things that can't be fixed."
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Nov 20, 2022 17:33
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MegaZeroX posted:Yes, Rena is the best, and chapter 6 is also just amazing in general. One of my favorite things is how Rena's previous mental breakdown is handled. In episode 1, particularly if you believe in Keiichi's delusions, but even if you don't, the information about Rena's past unfairly taints your image of her. Rena in chapters 1-5 is nothing more than a loving friend who does her best, but as seen in earlier reactions, people don't trust her. Readers other her just because of her old mental break. Even when people shed having a completely negative impression of her, the readers, much like Shion in chapter 5, treat her unlike they treat the other characters. Most readers decide chapter 1 Mion wasn't up to anything bad but it's harder to totally clear Rena due to the phantom needle which isn't resolved until chapter 6. No Wave fucked around with this message at 17:40 on Nov 20, 2022 |
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Nov 20, 2022 17:35
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big big umineko Episode 8 spoilers with an important question I need clarified: OK, so in this game Ryukishi basically says "come at me bro" and therefore my sister and I decided we wanted to solve it, or at least lock in our theory, before even looking at the hints section. Based on these rules: - Characters who are not culprits only speak the truth - It is possible for a culprit to lie - Purple statements are as absolute as red truths. However, the culprit alone may lie with purple statements. We can infer that any time two or more characters say contradictory purple statements, one side must be a culprit (and if someone self-contradicts they are definitely a culprit but I haven't noticed a case of that yet). This is a great tool, but I've found one confusing place where I'm not sure what to make of it. Fourth twilight: Shannon is found dead in the garden after all the survivors of 1 & 2 seal the mansion and move to the guesthouse. Purple text is bolded. Gohda: "When the two of them left, we were busy checking the locks around the guesthouse. So, not one of us has an alibi...!" George: "Me, kill her?! How could I have killed her?!!" Maria: "That's right. George onii-chan couldn't kill her, uu." Jessica: "Later on, we learned that George nii-san alone had an alibi. At least regarding Shannon's death, it was impossible for George nii-san to be the murderer." Battler: "To turn it around, ......anyone could have killed her besides George-aniki." In this case, am I to interpret Gohda's statement as contradicting Jessica and Battler's statements? Or even contradicting Maria's statement in white? I think I can resolve it without contradiction with this logic: 1. Even though "characters who are not culprits only speak the truth", it's possible for statements in white to be honest mistakes. That makes some sense, because if white statements had to be perfect they would not be any different from purple. 2. The definition of "alibi" is used strictly to mean "something that can definitely establish the suspect's location or physical capability in a way that exonerates them", and therefore excludes things like "they were his fiance". 3. When Battler and Jessica say "it was impossible" in purple, they are referring to George's mental state. In English, they mean that he would not kill Shannon, not that he could not. 4. When Jessica says "George alone had an alibi" in white, that is an honest mistake. 5. Therefore, Gohda's purple statement does not contradict the things everyone else says. Am I going crazy? I don't want there to be a contradiction here, it would mess up the best theory we have so far. Our theory is that the culprits are Battler, Rudolf, and Kyrie. Kyrie does the 1st twilight and pretends to be dead, Battler "confirms" her death, then she sneaks away and murders Krauss and Natsuhi (and maybe Battler gets his kill there as well, since Kyrie only needs 6 kills). Then Kyrie stays in that room forever, Battler goes to the guesthouse, and Rudolf roams in and around the guesthouse killing people. I can't remember offhand but I believe it's possible to construct a sequence of board states where Rudolf can be let in or out of the guesthouse by Battler when necessary. But if this conversation about Shannon really has a contradiction, it blows up this theory. We have to bring either Jessica or Gohda in as a culprit, and there's a chain of death confirmations that goes [All servants] -> Nanjo -> Jessica -> George & Maria, and at that point you have so many culprits and so few victims that not everyone can get their own kill. Well, assuming that "a culprit must carry out all murders directly, by their own hands" means no shared kills are allowed. As long as each culprit needs at least one unique kill and the 1st twilight culprit needs six then we're pretty sure that 5 is the maximum number of culprits
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Nov 20, 2022 20:41
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IIRC your theory is correct, though I can't remember the details of how it was committed. From looking at the purple text you quote, (as you mention) it doesn't seem like there's a contradiction since Jessica/Battler's purple texts don't include the alibi part. I absolutely did not successfully solve it on my own, lol.
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Nov 20, 2022 20:58
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VostokProgram posted:big big umineko Episode 8 spoilers with an important question I need clarified: You are generally correct in your interpretation of the purple truth there. If it also helps there, you can consider Gohda's statement to be a "physical alibi", whereas Jessica and Battler's is a "mental alibi". Each culprit does need at least one unique kill. There are no shared culprits.
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Nov 20, 2022 22:50
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MegaZeroX posted:First and most importantly, please either edit away your vague-posting spoilers about Umineko or include a warning that you do so in the post. My bad. I thought it was vague enough to be meaningless, but going forward I won't want any references to Umineko while Higurashi posting.
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Nov 21, 2022 04:42
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LordMune posted:Deliberately re-reading spoilers should someone dare to imply you may have been misinformed seems like a very specific you problem, to be honest. Then I need to clarify, because that is not something I actually do. I know that I have the ability to reread the wiki, and I chose not to. But knowing that I could do it gives me certainty in the wrong answer. The spoiling has already happened; I am not interested in someone else dancing around a topic for what they think my sake is. I am the person who determines what is in my interest. I would rather someone say "So Math, you think that the spoiler is Kinzo won his fortune in a poker match, but it isn't," instead of something like "Well gee, So Math, why do you think Ryukishi put in all this stuff about real estate if that's not actually the answer?"
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Nov 21, 2022 12:28
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Since I don't know what exactly you think you've been spoiled on, I can't comment on that. I will say, however, that what you think you know is leading to a very interesting reading of it.
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Nov 21, 2022 20:50
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So Math posted:Then I need to clarify, because that is not something I actually do. I know that I have the ability to reread the wiki, and I chose not to. But knowing that I could do it gives me certainty in the wrong answer. If you're talking about the 07th expansion wiki, it's actually remarkably "dry" and (probably deliberately and smartly, credit to the wiki editors) avoids spoilers as much as possible while simply reciting the events that transpire in each episode. This is probably partly because the VN is never entirely explicit about certain things; there have been significant arguments lasting years after the release of the final episode, though Ryukishi went on to make things more explicit in the manga (IMO those arguments had a very clear right and wrong side to them, though). I went looking out of curiosity to see how it deals with things (since I've never really explored the Umineko wiki before), and I couldn't actually find some of the more significant plot/character elements. Not that this means looking at the wiki is a good idea, since it still obviously spoils the events that happens in later episodes - it's just that "knowing what happens" gives a lot less information for Umineko than it would for most other stories.
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Nov 21, 2022 22:05
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I was wondering why this thread was being so quiet but I guess I accidentally unfavorited it Oope
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Nov 21, 2022 22:16
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Nyaawn posted:I was wondering why this thread was being so quiet but I guess I accidentally unfavorited it welcome back to hinamijima
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Nov 21, 2022 22:26
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Nyaawn posted:I was wondering why this thread was being so quiet but I guess I accidentally unfavorited it Megathread culture strikes again
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Nov 22, 2022 08:07
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Is this the right thread for this?    (yes, I need to adjust the crt geometry for this game)
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Nov 22, 2022 12:52
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Wait there is Higurashi Mahjong? 
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Nov 22, 2022 15:55
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MegaZeroX posted:Wait there is Higurashi Mahjong? Yeah, its on an arcade system thats not emulated, but they ported it to PSP as well.
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Nov 22, 2022 19:56
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Alright, I have finished Higurashi. I'm not going to write anything super long about it because A: I think I was excited enough writing my last post that it'd qualify as a mild mania and totally brain dumping like that has exhausted that urge (I'm actually a little embarrassed tbh) and B: (all Higurash 1-8 spoilers) I don't know if there's too much to say? It was overall good. I was alternatively intrigued and excited, and while there some blemishes (the Dr. Coach maid-rant scene) I think it succeeded what it was trying to do. Ultimately I feel like 8 walked through the doors 6 + 7 unlocked, and nothing in it matches the electric feeling of change that runs through those chapters. One thing that must be said (youtube link to a late Higurashi music track) is that R of Can is an incredible song. I have not been able to stop listening to it since I finished Matsuribayashi. Absolute banger.
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Nov 24, 2022 01:14
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I've had to put my Umineko reading on pause for a few days. In the mean time, here is something I wrote at the very beginning of Episode 4. It's an alternate take on the logistics of moving people between different Fragments. Battlers Royale
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Nov 24, 2022 01:38
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Scrree posted:Alright, I have finished Higurashi. Yeah, Chapter 8 is good, but it is mostly just a solid conclusion. The story needed resolution, and we got it. One thing I do want to address from before: quote:so to finally get to 'the demons of Hinamizawa' -- there are no demons in Minagoroshi. rule X and rule Z are defeated (and can only be defeated) with human solidarity, but rule Y? the mountain dogs are a legitimate outside force with ill intent. they don't give a poo poo about the social life of the village because they aren't part of it. it's why Ooishi gets got so bad, he can't imagine what he's dealing with and bares his neck to a beast with no need to hold back from killing. In the end, chapter 7 deals with X and Z but not Y, which is what chapter 8 is about. And thematically, I think it noteworthy that it is achieved, in large part, by bringing the outside in. Ooishi, Akasaka, and Tomitake are effectively brought into the circle. While still being the central villain, Takano, by being humanized, is effectively brought into the "inside" from the reader's perspective. A lesser theme but a real one I think is about the external forces vs internal ones, and how the only difference is really that of perspective, and how one can grow by moving the external internal. Can of R is, of course, an absolute banger, and probably my favorite percussion driven musical track ever. Something you may enjoy listening to is that Dear You got many various official vocal versions representing different characters. The "main" vocal version for Shion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqyKkcwd-rY The Cry version for Rena: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wk7sQjcoqdc The Hope version for Rika: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqI4bEfEmrQ The Trust version for Keiichi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgWE2-CX_-o (technically its actually ano hi ano basho subete arigatou, but in English you often see it mixed up with the (inferior IMO) Trust version) The Kind version for Satoko: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyeeR_Tw0QA The Feel version for Mion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNu4F3rX83Y The Kizuna version for the whole cast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQPmBnnAczA There is also several more official versions than that On top of the like trillion covers/fan versions of it. My favorite fan non-vocal version of You this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Bd-QD8OLk0 There is also a full vocal version of Sora no Mukou from chapter 8: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYUU_pZ0OOQ As for some great tracks directly in the VN you might have missed/forgotton: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgfxMGBa9Ks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JR0SvgLy_D8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuY_v9k9W0E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OncQlCnuv8o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtyE3kUIeLY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSqH1t7qpLQ
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Nov 24, 2022 02:32
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but who knocked on the door???
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Nov 25, 2022 22:58
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(umineko 1-6) the more I feel like I understand, the more the parts that don't seem to fit really seem to stand out. The two really big ones are the purpose of the epitaph, and Battler's sin of forgetting. I can even make some pretty reasonable theories about the former, I think, just nothing that has much in the way of particular textual support. I'm hesitant to type many of my thoughts out because first of all, it'd be a lot of  but second of all it's still possible that I'm way off-base and drawing connections where they don't actually exist.Things I'm reasonably convinced of: -Kanon is Shannon, but not like actually Shannon - more like a more convenient/comfortable version of Shannon as reported/viewed/narrated by Jessica - ...Rosa... should be dropped in a vat of acid -I'm pretty convinced a lot of the murders are not truly murders, especially in the first couple of games. I don't remember how many of these instances are cut apart later - there's a lot of stuff in the later games that recaps earlier situations but boxes them in with a bunch of red, however I think most of the confirmed deaths are from Game 3 and then later 6 when Erika Erika's everyone's drat heads off -George is a dweeb and a half and Battler should give him a fuckin' swirly E: Beatrice is a carbon monoxide detector and it was Battler's job to remember to change the battery, but he forgot after six years, and everyone died. 
Rockman Reserve fucked around with this message at 03:19 on Nov 30, 2022 |
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Nov 29, 2022 22:01
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well gosh sure wasn’t expecting that new CG in episode 2 of naked Battler on a leash 
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Dec 1, 2022 02:15
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| # ? May 31, 2024 13:40 |
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Rockman Reserve posted:E: Beatrice is a carbon monoxide detector and it was Battler's job to remember to change the battery, but he forgot after six years, and everyone died. Honestly, this is one of your better guesses.
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Dec 1, 2022 02:28
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