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What is the most powerful flying bug? This poll is closed. |
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| 🦋 |
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15 | 3.71% |
| 🦇 |
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115 | 28.47% |
| 🪰 |
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12 | 2.97% |
| 🐦 |
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67 | 16.58% |
| dragonfly |
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94 | 23.27% |
| 🦟 |
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14 | 3.47% |
| 🐝 |
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87 | 21.53% |
| Total: | 404 votes | ||
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Azathoth posted:They aren't willing or able to endure the kind of casualties to force Ukraine to negotiate from a position of weakness, and on the other side, Ukraine has shown an ability and a willingness to endure outsized casualty numbers to hold off Russia. Better equipment would obviously help Russia both reduce casualties themselves and exacerbate Ukrainian casualties, but only incrementally. All the mobilization in the world isn't going to help them if they fear the political fallout from dead conscripts, which they clearly do. Yes it is very curious that a nation being invaded is able to muster the support for full mobilization, while a larger, invading military with limited war aims and a population otherwise under peacetime conditions is unable to do so. There is certainly no near-ubiquitous and easily understood historical precedent for this--clearly it is a case of Russian benevolence and aversion to violence vs. Ukrainian bloodlust.
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Nov 17, 2022 01:15
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Morbus posted:Yes it is very curious that a nation being invaded is able to muster the support for full mobilization, while a larger, invading military with limited war aims and a population otherwise under peacetime conditions is unable to do so. There is certainly no near-ubiquitous and easily understood historical precedent for this--clearly it is a case of Russian benevolence and aversion to violence vs. Ukrainian bloodlust. “limited war aims” and “aversion to violence” and “full mobilization” and “bloodlust” mean the same thing here in effect, it’s just a difference in tone.
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Nov 17, 2022 01:18
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I would say the curious part is it happening in a country on another country's door step with plenty of spillover past its pre-war borders.
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Nov 17, 2022 01:20
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Morbus posted:Yes it is very curious that a nation being invaded is able to muster the support for full mobilization, while a larger, invading military with limited war aims and a population otherwise under peacetime conditions is unable to do so. There is certainly no near-ubiquitous and easily understood historical precedent for this--clearly it is a case of Russian benevolence and aversion to violence vs. Ukrainian bloodlust. who are you arguing with?
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Nov 17, 2022 01:20
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Morbus posted:Yes it is very curious that a nation being invaded is able to muster the support for full mobilization, while a larger, invading military with limited war aims and a population otherwise under peacetime conditions is unable to do so. There is certainly no near-ubiquitous and easily understood historical precedent for this--clearly it is a case of Russian benevolence and aversion to violence vs. Ukrainian bloodlust. shut up
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Nov 17, 2022 01:22
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Also, yeah, I don't who the post is really directed at because I don''t think anyone actually disagrees beyond I guess verbage.
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Nov 17, 2022 01:25
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iCe-CuBe. posted:Im sorry, but Article 5 says we have to invade Ukraine now. I dont want to do it but thats just the way it is, the law is the law. this. the rules-based international order is the only thing that protects us from chaos and anarchy. tristeham has issued a correction as of 01:32 on Nov 17, 2022 |
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Nov 17, 2022 01:30
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https://twitter.com/JohnSimpsonNews/status/1592921596997795840
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Nov 17, 2022 01:37
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The Jack Russell of chicken Kiev.
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Nov 17, 2022 01:39
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He is sleeping you morons. He's focusing his chi
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Nov 17, 2022 01:43
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is his name like patron saint or like patron drink?
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Nov 17, 2022 01:51
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speng31b posted:who are you arguing with? I'm curious about that as well.
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Nov 17, 2022 01:52
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mlmp08 posted:is his name like patron saint or like patron drink? Patron Saint Javelin 😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣
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Nov 17, 2022 01:53
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Megamissen posted:theyre doing ~strategy~, but in the gurowskian sense strategery
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Nov 17, 2022 01:55
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dogs rock
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Nov 17, 2022 01:57
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also completely unsurprising but still funny that Anne Applebaum has an article out going "okay who can say if it was really a Russian missile, I'm just going to heavily imply it was while calling for NATO to invade Russia. I'm against escalation btw."
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Nov 17, 2022 02:04
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StashAugustine posted:also completely unsurprising but still funny that Anne Applebaum has an article out going "okay who can say if it was really a Russian missile, I'm just going to heavily imply it was while calling for NATO to invade Russia. I'm against escalation btw." the soviet union cheated the west out of a nuclear war and this is the real reason the liberals will not forgive or forget them
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Nov 17, 2022 02:05
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mlmp08 posted:is his name like patron saint or like patron drink? might be cartridge https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D0%BF%D0%B0%D1%82%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%BD#Russian ukrainian doesnt show up there but it does if you check translations here https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/cartridge#Translations
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Nov 17, 2022 02:06
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bedpan posted:the soviet union cheated the west out of a nuclear war and this is the real reason the liberals will not forgive or forget them Fidel was right the soviets should have nuked the US.
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Nov 17, 2022 02:07
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Exactly 50 years ago today, on "Black Saturday," the climax of the Cuban Missile Crisis, Fidel Castro sent a cable to Soviet Premier Nikita Khrushchev calling on him to fire nuclear missiles on Washington, D.C., New York, and other American cities with a warhead 60 times more powerful than the bomb dropped on Hiroshima
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Nov 17, 2022 02:09
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AnimeIsTrash posted:Exactly 50 years ago today, on "Black Saturday," the climax of the Cuban Missile Crisis, Fidel Castro sent a cable to Soviet Premier Nikita Khrushchev calling on him to fire nuclear missiles on Washington, D.C., New York, and other American cities with a warhead 60 times more powerful than the bomb dropped on Hiroshima Today is a Wednesday. Giving this 12 Pinocchios
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Nov 17, 2022 02:11
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Frosted Flake posted:“limited war aims” and “aversion to violence” and “full mobilization” and “bloodlust” mean the same thing here in effect, it’s just a difference in tone. Fair enough, but this thread occasionally sees a narrative where this disparity (between the Russian vs. Ukrainian general willingness to fight a war and take casualties) is either somehow remarkable, surprising, or due to some pernicious feature in the character of the Ukrainian government/people. That if different or more rational people were making decisions in Ukraine, the situation would be different. Or, similarly, if Russia simply was more serious and less compassionate they would be doing what it took to win. The reality is that Russia's avoidance of large scale mobilization and relatively limited approach to the war are necessary, not because they give a poo poo about spilled blood on either side, but because the moment this becomes (indeed the moment it became) a large scale war, there is basically no possible outcome that is politically beneficial to them. This entire "SMO" was predicated on the idea of a quick and relatively bloodless war culminating in a more cooperative Ukrainian government, supported by a significant plurality of pro-Russian Ukrainians (fat chance of that now). On the other hand, for the Ukrainian government, this was an existential threat from the beginning of the invasion (their many opportunities to avoid one in the first place notwithstanding). Similarly, the average Russian obviously isn't going to give too much of a poo poo about any of this, whereas even the perception of a foreign attack on one's country is the #1 thing that historically has motivated public support for mobilization--let alone actually being bombed or having tanks rolling down streets. So idk when people wonder why "Russia is dragging this out" or otherwise not going for the kill, or commenting on the relative Ukrainian "willingness to endure casualties" as if it's somehow remarkable, it reads as something at least adjacent to the moralistic good guy v. bad guy junk that this thread is generally pretty good about not falling into.
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Nov 17, 2022 02:14
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Geez thread why didn't you have all that figured out from the very beginning? Embarrassing tbh.
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Nov 17, 2022 02:22
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Fat-Lip-Sum-41.mp3 posted:Geez thread why didn't you have all that figured out from the very beginning? Embarrassing tbh. my belief in robert mueller and the rule of law blinded me to reality
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Nov 17, 2022 02:24
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Morbus posted:Fair enough, but this thread occasionally sees a narrative where this disparity (between the Russian vs. Ukrainian general willingness to fight a war and take casualties) is either somehow remarkable, surprising, or due to some pernicious feature in the character of the Ukrainian government/people. That if different or more rational people were making decisions in Ukraine, the situation would be different. Or, similarly, if Russia simply was more serious and less compassionate they would be doing what it took to win. didnt read
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Nov 17, 2022 02:26
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The question is how far you want to go with that line of thought. It is clear there would be more support for a defensive than offensive war, but part of the Kremlin's strategy is to keep this a "secret conflict," however that is a voluntary option on their part. If full mobilization occured, it perhaps wouldn't be supported in the same way as Ukraine but I am less skeptical it wouldn't be possible especially since the people who opposed/feared mobilization have since left. (Also, I really dislike the "thread hive mind" stuff especially on points that really aren't being made.) Obviously, the Russian government has signalled it doesn't want to go that far, and it may not, but this is also not an optional war for the Russians at this point even if the optional left are not amazing. They really can't just walk about and left the West setup shop on their border. That is the "dragging it out" issue in a nutshell because there is no walking away for Russia here, and it is all building up for a greater wave of violence. Maybe there isn't a "politically beneficial" outcome but there very well may be a strategic one, it is just going to come at great cost for all sides including the West. Ardennes has issued a correction as of 02:37 on Nov 17, 2022 |
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Nov 17, 2022 02:27
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stop making up poo poo about what "the thread" thinks and getting mad about it
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Nov 17, 2022 02:29
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speng31b posted:I still think the more likely possibility is that lil Z is high on his own supply and just mad that his allies broke away from his narrative. he's been getting away with saying almost any bullshit he can imagine and having the entire western apparatus parrot it uncritically for almost a year now, it's gotta be jarring to get a different result now. probably just found the limit of what he can push, that being anything that threatens to get NATO off the sidelines He said after the big counteroffensive that they were running out of time and needed a big push before winter. Given all the setbacks Russia's faced I figure that's been enough but maybe not. I don't know if he's going to get the boot if he doesn't actually retake all of the captured territories, or they're just going to finally reach the limits of what they can feasibly retake, or if he's really just high on his own supply or what's going on.
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Nov 17, 2022 02:34
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StashAugustine posted:also completely unsurprising but still funny that Anne Applebaum has an article out going "okay who can say if it was really a Russian missile, I'm just going to heavily imply it was while calling for NATO to invade Russia. I'm against escalation btw." When you live a life of such comfort and decadence that only the prospect of nuclear war can elicit an emotional response.
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Nov 17, 2022 02:35
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speng31b posted:lil Z nice ableism
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Nov 17, 2022 02:36
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Nov 17, 2022 02:37
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Morbus posted:So idk when people wonder why "Russia is dragging this out" or otherwise not going for the kill, or commenting on the relative Ukrainian "willingness to endure casualties" as if it's somehow remarkable, it reads as something at least adjacent to the moralistic good guy v. bad guy junk that this thread is generally pretty good about not falling into. The Russia dragging things out is fair enough, but it's really hard to say exactly what the Ukrainians will be happy with. They've said all recaptured territories, but as they push further east that's going to cost more and more lives and at some point you expect them to sit down to get more territorial concessions diplomatically and not through spending lives. I mean I don't think they're going to try to march on Moscow so figuring out exactly how far is far enough has been kind of perplexing. It does come down to when Russia shifts from "negotiations to secure what we've got" to "get a peace deal before we're completely embarrassed and lose everything."
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Nov 17, 2022 02:38
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yeah—in 4” lifts
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Nov 17, 2022 02:39
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With Russia having, as you said, limited and well understood war aims, the Ukrainian government deciding to fight total war from day one, including arming the populace immediately, has tied the fate of the nation to the maintenance of their policy and refusal to negotiate, which is only making things more dangerous as time goes on.
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Nov 17, 2022 02:39
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speng31b posted:stop making up poo poo about what "the thread" thinks and getting mad about it no
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Nov 17, 2022 02:43
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Dreylad posted:It does come down to when Russia shifts from "negotiations to secure what we've got" to "get a peace deal before we're completely embarrassed and lose everything." Or, commit to fighting the war and securing terms on the battlefield rather than though One Weird Trick, which is entirely within their means but not their will, so far. I suppose it comes down to knowing what avoiding “completely embarrassed and lose everything." is worth to them in Russian, and Ukrainian lives, extracted at that 5-7:1 ratio.
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Nov 17, 2022 02:44
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AnimeIsTrash posted:nice ableism thats right
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Nov 17, 2022 02:44
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any other us president would have reined that little oval office in
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Nov 17, 2022 02:45
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I opened the ukraine reddit to see how theyre taking the news cycle and one thread has people accusing others of being russian spies for having the wrong takes lmao. This war brought back the red terror. People missing that McCarthyism nostalgia
Meow Tse-tung has issued a correction as of 02:55 on Nov 17, 2022 |
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Nov 17, 2022 02:52
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tristeham posted:any other us president would have reined that little oval office in Once they've set up a new laundromat in a different location I imagine they'll thank the old proprietor for his services in the usual manner.
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Nov 17, 2022 02:54
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