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Antivehicular posted:Bigfoot erotica writers are better than you because they loving wrote something, you insufferable weiner Your turn by, the way. Also, my weiner suffers greatly, I'll have you know.
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Nov 17, 2022 09:46
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Harvest Season There was a darling growing in Althea's garden. The darling was a mandrake of venerable age, barely capable of flowering, but the face half-hidden beneath the soil was that of an ageless cherub. A mandrake's beauty was not its efficacy -- Althea had saved lives with tinctures brewed with crone-faced roots, and the amulet that gave a sterile king three heirs had a face like a broken-nosed soldier -- but Althea couldn't bear the thought of wasting it on a common chill tonic or good-luck charm. Nothing within her powers seemed worthy of it. Season after season passed simply in admiration of it: feeding it on sour milk and bat's blood as she made her rounds, harvesting the herbs that provided livelihood but little joy. One spring, the darling produced a single withered blossom; by autumn, there was only a tiny, lopsided seed pod, and the leaves curled in on themselves like dead insects. The cherub face still beamed, but its mouth drooped slightly, and Althea knew that all her adoration hadn't been enough. She had loved the darling too well for its potential, for the unsullied ideal of it -- but what was potential, in the end, but fruit left rotting on the tree? How many years had she feared wasting it, as if time would not ruin it more thoroughly than her fumbling hands ever could? Althea could only think of her mother, cutting through the gore-slicked hide of a stag: you honor beauty by taking it and giving back what you can. You honor the things you kill by using them. You honor yourself by creation. Althea plugged her ears with wax and put on heavy gloves. Harvesting a mandrake was ugly work, but most things worth doing started with something ugly. Laid out on the workbench, the darling was not so beautiful as it had seen when buried in the earth. The roots were weak and twisted upon themselves, the work of an hour or two to untangle, and rosettes of rot flowered all along the taproot; Althea pared away what she could, but it was clear the darling would never have been much use in tinctures. Nonetheless, there was one purpose it might serve. Althea began the pruning, starting with the seed pod -- a bit of potential worth saving. By the first day of winter, the darling hung over Althea's workbench as a good-luck charm: an apprentice's first amulet, but magic nonetheless. She wore the charm around her neck come spring, when she planted the darling's seeds in a bed of bloody soil, and the withered cherub's face seemed to smile.
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Nov 17, 2022 12:20
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Leng posted:Somebody please post Neth's recent smackdown on what is/isn't storytelling from the Discord. I gotta do everything around here, don't I? Well now it's modified. Ahem. *~*~* I've been writing in some form since the first Bush admin as a eight year old who was handed a piece of paper and a pencil and told that I could do that as long as I stopped falling asleep in second grade. And even if the target audience don't read this, I'm going to slap it down for everyone, the way I used to slap facts during debates on Gaia online so if other people saw them, they could read. If you take language and make a story in it--any story--you are a writer. There are no "Those Writing Actual Books" Real™ Writers that are better than other writers. If you take a language and you tell a story in it, you are a writer. People write fanfic about two characters touching rear end and that's writing. Children making up stories about the monster under their bed and how their teddy bear fight it that they tell to mommy are writers. Teenagers writing about how when they become adults they'll show Sally who turned them down for prom someday with their money and the hottest boyfriend ever are writers. People submitting clearly fake as gently caress "AITA" on Reddit are writers. People replying to the writing prompts tumblr in longform on Tumblr are writers. People writing, as one person so loving rudely put it, for a weekly contest named after a movie, are writers. Hell, celebrity authors are writers and I don't even want to give them the credit, but they have it if they were part of the creation of the story. And if not, their ghostwriters are writers. All things are creating stories and a form of writing and storytelling. Short stories count. Fanfic counts. Oral storytelling counts. All writing and story creation makes you a story creator. All writing is "real writing." If you're going to be a writer, write. And for the love of chicken fucknuggets, don't call people "not real writers" because we haven't offered our longform braincraft to the publishing industry. And stop whining about how you have to be gifted or blessed or some other fuckery otherwise you can't make art, because that's bullshit. Now I'm going to go write some indulgent bullshit about cows that's for me and maybe like, four other people to ever see. Nethilia fucked around with this message at 19:47 on Nov 17, 2022 |
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Nov 17, 2022 13:33
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Marsupial Ape posted:This is me playing ball and ‘buying in’. I’ll ignore all the petty and rather childish mental health shaming previously leveled at me. 'Get therapy' is solid life advice for pretty much anyone, not mental health shaming.
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Nov 17, 2022 13:36
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Yeah, it's a snarky expression of concern, not intended to be a pisstake. At least I didn't read it that way.
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Nov 17, 2022 13:46
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Chairchucker posted:'Get therapy' is solid life advice for pretty much anyone, not mental health shaming. Telling some one to ‘get therapy’ because you are either to inarticulate or too lazy or too scared to engage their argument is pretty much the definition of mental health shaming. I’ll get therapy when you can write persuasively. No wait, I’ll go to therapy when my actual therapist suggests I increase the frequency of our sessions. Do you wish to double down? I don’t. It’s below all of us. HopperUK posted:Yeah, it's a snarky expression of concern, not intended to be a pisstake. At least I didn't read it that way. The vast majority of this community didn’t have the reading comprehension skills to recognize “what drugs should I take to be a better writer” as obvious irony. That’s either low reading comprehension skills or a lack of depth and breadth of literary exposure. I’m still agog that some one didn’t have the temerity or curiosity to google sunk cost fallacy before deciding to have a fit. To that person, I hold you no ill will and never meant you any. Please don’t not read the article just to spite me. I apologize for disrupting this shared space. I really do. I hosed up by participating. I take responsibility.
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Nov 17, 2022 20:51
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Marsupial Ape posted:This is me playing ball and ‘buying in’. I’ll ignore all the petty and rather childish mental health shaming previously leveled at me. What the gently caress, this is charming. Especially for a dashed-off story that probably only had 1-2 editing passes. Your depression brain is lying to you. I know this is easier said than done, but stop listening to it.
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Nov 17, 2022 20:59
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Marsupial Ape posted:The vast majority of this community didn’t have the reading comprehension skills to recognize “what drugs should I take to be a better writer” as obvious irony. That’s either low reading comprehension skills or a lack of depth and breadth of literary exposure. I’m still agog that some one didn’t have the temerity or curiosity to google sunk cost fallacy before deciding to have a fit. To that person, I hold you no ill will and never meant you any. Please don’t not read the article just to spite me.
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Nov 17, 2022 21:43
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sorry, addendum: i'm SOWWY for huwting youw FEEWINGS i don't hate u for being an idiot asshoww, I take wesponsibiwity  gently caress offfffffffffff
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Nov 17, 2022 21:46
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SurreptitiousMuffin posted:sorry, addendum: i'm SOWWY for huwting youw FEEWINGS i don't hate u for being an idiot asshoww, I take wesponsibiwity Addenndum: Addendum: Great post! Edit: I guess I should add here, I get it, that writing can be tough and self explorative, and maybe you need to take on a certain persona to get into it, but I don't know if expressing that persona on a dying comedy forum is the best place for it.
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Nov 17, 2022 21:49
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Marsupial Ape posted:The vast majority of this community didn’t have the reading comprehension skills to recognize “what drugs should I take to be a better writer” as obvious irony. you know you're on a forum with a literal crackhead clubhouse, right
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Nov 17, 2022 21:50
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Like, you want some realtalk? I hate throwing my weight around here but hi, I'm a big-5 trad pub author who does MS assessment for MFA programs. After over a decade of struggle, I now write fulltime professionally. I have a postgraduate qualification in publishing and I've worked in the industry as an editor, typesetter, publicist, and project manager. I know my poo poo. You're a bad writer for all the reasons you think you're a good writer. You waste $20 words on 10c ideas. You do this whole theatrical beating yourself up thing but it does not for a moment mask your towering arrogance; the reason you're not improving is because you're unable to pull your head out of your rear end, and you're baffled as to why nobody else can smell poo poo. Both your posting and prose have the neurotic, self-impressed affect of a teenage boy in a fedora trying to impress a girl who listens to The Smiths. GET OVER YOUR SELF SurreptitiousMuffin fucked around with this message at 22:06 on Nov 17, 2022 |
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Nov 17, 2022 21:56
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You know why you're getting so many "get therapy" responses? Because I guarantee that everyone in this thread has had this exact argument before, with someone else who has depression and mistakes it for insight into the true nature of the universe and has decided all effort is folly. There is absolutely no response to this besides "your mental illness is distorting your perceptions and you should work on that," because every good-faith argument gets contorted Depression Logic in response. I've talked to this person so many times! I've been this person! You are not magically the one dude who's really figured it out, and you absolutely are not the smartest person in this thread. I'll give you credit for coughing up a few hundred words -- GOOD WORK, YOU WROTE, THAT'S GOOD -- but I refuse to dignify "actually, you shouldn't write at all" with real arguments in the goddamn Fiction Advice thread.
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Nov 17, 2022 22:05
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The conceitedness + depression combo is one of the nastiest self-sealing grease traps – everybody trying to tell you it's the depression talking is naive and doesn't understand the real world etc, which leads to you talking down to people, which further isolates you, which inculcates your false sense of superiority, which further isolates you, which worsens your depression, repeat ad nauseum. I've been there, it sucks, I feel a little guilty for lashing out but come on dude, you're not some enlightened prophet coming down from the mountain with the true nature of the uncaring universe, you're just depressed.
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Nov 17, 2022 23:08
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Please don't sing dragula
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Nov 17, 2022 23:18
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General Battuta posted:Please don't sing dragula
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Nov 17, 2022 23:24
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Pththya-lyi posted:What the gently caress, this is charming. Especially for a dashed-off story that probably only had 1-2 editing passes. Your depression brain is lying to you. I know this is easier said than done, but stop listening to it. Thank you. It was intended to be charming. It was meant to be a self deprecating peace offering, but gently caress that I guess. This is also not something I wrote to judge myself on. It’s about six dumb “show don’t tell” writers’ tricks in a row. I didn’t come off Orientalizing or Othering with the foreign gentleman (name pending), was I? I had to establish that he was as innocent to the situation as the reader and needed a narrative short cut because, well, flash fiction has inherent limitations. Narrative short cuts can lead to lazy stereotyping and I try to be mindful of that poo poo.
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Nov 17, 2022 23:37
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Marsupial Ape posted:That’s either low reading comprehension skills or a lack of depth and breadth of literary exposure. Yeah you got em all right, that'll be what it is.
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Nov 17, 2022 23:56
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SurreptitiousMuffin posted:The conceitedness + depression combo is one of the nastiest self-sealing grease traps – everybody trying to tell you it's the depression talking is naive and doesn't understand the real world etc, which leads to you talking down to people, which further isolates you, which inculcates your false sense of superiority, which further isolates you, which worsens your depression, repeat ad nauseum. I've been there, it sucks, I feel a little guilty for lashing out but come on dude, you're not some enlightened prophet coming down from the mountain with the true nature of the uncaring universe, you're just depressed. Tell me more about this antagonist you’ve constructed in your head. You’ve fabricated his sins and motivations, already. What does he reply with when you scream at him? Tell me all the scenarios where you’ve gloriously defeated him. I’d like to know this villain. He certainly sounds more impressive than me.
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Nov 18, 2022 00:00
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Marsupial Ape posted:Tell me more about this antagonist you’ve constructed in your head. You’ve fabricated his sins and motivations, already. What does he reply with when you scream at him? Tell me all the scenarios where you’ve gloriously defeated him. I’d like to know this villain. He certainly sounds more impressive than me. The thing to do right now would be to steer this thread to a topic other than yourself I think.
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Nov 18, 2022 00:05
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General Battuta posted:The thing to do right now would be to steer this thread to a topic other than yourself I think. Please. Does anybody use mind-mapping as a tool for plotting, brain storming? I was recently Re-introduced to the concept. I won’t even reply, just assume I appreciate the input.
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Nov 18, 2022 00:17
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Battuta is correct, but I'll add this: Marsupial Ape, I don't think you are understanding why people are frustrated with you, or the detrimental effect you're having on this discussion space. As such, I'm going to ask you to refrain from posting here for at least a week. I'm not going to use buttons right now because we're all adults here, but if you come back before a week is up, it's going to be a probation. That shouldn't be a huge problem for you because you seem to think we're all stupid! Perhaps you can use this time to find your intellectual equals. Any other discussion on this matter should be directed to my PMs. Everyone else, replies to Marsupial Ape stop now, unless you want to crit their story or respond to this specific question: Marsupial Ape posted:Does anybody use mind-mapping as a tool for plotting, brain storming? I was recently Re-introduced to the concept. I won’t even reply, just assume I appreciate the input. The protagonist of this thread is writing. It will always be writing.
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Nov 18, 2022 01:00
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Marsupial Ape posted:Does anybody use mind-mapping as a tool for plotting, brain storming? I was recently Re-introduced to the concept. I won’t even reply, just assume I appreciate the input. Yeah I've used it in the past for mapping out the themes/plotlines of a novel. It's useful because it shows you where things are tightly interconnected and where they're hanging loose--if a particular character or plot thread is only connected to the whole by one or two strings, then it probably needs to be brought closer into the web, or cut entirely. But those strings can represent thematic resonance as well as literal connections.
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Nov 18, 2022 01:05
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Marsupial Ape posted:Please. This is a decent little book about mindmaps as a writing tool: https://www.amazon.com/Storyteller-Tools-Outline-finished-without-ebook/dp/B00K6PBXY6/
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Nov 18, 2022 01:10
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Edit: nevermind, not so helpful
REMEMBER SPONGE MONKEYS fucked around with this message at 14:53 on Nov 18, 2022 |
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Nov 18, 2022 01:45
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I need help thinking. I have a tendency to not do it critically without serious effort. Which is highly useful when I'm helping the public. But not so helpful when I'm trying to get better at writing. I was talking to another writer and apparently this is not their standard. I can read an entire book and enjoy it because it had a good plot. Yet I miss the finer points of the characters, setting, any implications of foreshadowing and clues. Basically I'm the perfect reader because I can never see the twist coming or determine who the villain is. And themes and subtext might as well be nonexistent. My default is to appreciate and be along for the ride of the story. It's only if I'm judging Thunderdome or I sit down with the express purpose to look for the scaffolding of a novel am I able to flip the switch. Obviously this is a problem as I try to improve my writing. It's not really as dire as I make it out to be, but I would like to know if any of you all have advice for how to pay better attention while I'm reading so that I can critically evaluate other authors' works and also apply similar evaluation to editing my own writing. I'm very much a checklist type person, and while I can check the box "develop your characters" all day long, I need to hone my ability to identify, evaluate and project the consequences of my character choices. So yeah, any advice or even general musing on this subject would be fascinating to me. Thanks!
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Nov 20, 2022 15:44
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I have been working on stories full time for ten years or so and that's still how I read—along for the ride. It's what a good story does. I don't really think about critical stuff while I'm reading; that comes after. I would say the best way to develop your critical reading 'sense' is just to push yourself to read work that's slightly above/outside your comfort zone. Soak your brain meats in work that will improve you. Your brain is an association engine; this whole business of thinking through things formally and explicitly came rather late. Stuff yourself with examples and trust your brain to draw interesting connections. Read other peoples' criticism and the way they criticize will stick in you a bit. Do this and you'll probably find yourself seeing things even in your junk/comfort reads that you didn't notice before. I recently reread Sphere by Michael Crichton, one of the less well regarded books by an uhhhh not well respected writer, and I still found myself noticing lots of deliberate choices he was making to keep the story propulsive. I also noticed where he was clearly just punting. It was neat.
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Nov 20, 2022 16:13
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a friendly penguin posted:I need help thinking. I have a tendency to not do it critically without serious effort. Which is highly useful when I'm helping the public. But not so helpful when I'm trying to get better at writing. I was talking to another writer and apparently this is not their standard. I can read an entire book and enjoy it because it had a good plot. Yet I miss the finer points of the characters, setting, any implications of foreshadowing and clues. Basically I'm the perfect reader because I can never see the twist coming or determine who the villain is. And themes and subtext might as well be nonexistent. My default is to appreciate and be along for the ride of the story. It's only if I'm judging Thunderdome or I sit down with the express purpose to look for the scaffolding of a novel am I able to flip the switch. Read books you like and want to emulate twice; once as a reader, once to analyze why you liked it.
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Nov 20, 2022 17:07
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i mostly read books for fun, but when i need to improve i specifically seek out books that do what im trying to improve at and just analyze bits and pieces.
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Nov 20, 2022 19:36
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General Battuta posted:[Good stuff.] Well, this is encouraging. Just need to remember to keep thinking about the book even after it's over. And I think it will be helped by... Megazver posted:Read books you like and want to emulate twice; once as a reader, once to analyze why you liked it. I just have to get over my librarian mindset of grinding through books since to recommend things, it's important to have breadth more than depth. I also need to read much faster. But I think I can achieve this by listening on audio the first time and getting the physical book for a second, focused perusal. anime was right posted:i mostly read books for fun, but when i need to improve i specifically seek out books that do what im trying to improve at and just analyze bits and pieces. Thanks!
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Nov 20, 2022 20:34
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I used to teach reading classes and reading things twice was a technique we used for pretty much every age range. Kids learning to read spend so much mental effort decoding words that they can't enjoy the story, so we'd read it to them first and then they'd have their understanding of the story to help guide them and keep them interested. In classes for teens/adults, we'd let people read in class for about ten minutes, then have them jump back to the start of the chapter to do "sprints" where they'd read as fast as they could. It works really well for picking up techniques too, though. On your second read, you're no longer surprised by the plot, so you can actually appreciate the craft that went into it.
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Nov 21, 2022 05:41
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a friendly penguin posted:My default is to appreciate and be along for the ride of the story. It's only if I'm judging Thunderdome or I sit down with the express purpose to look for the scaffolding of a novel am I able to flip the switch. I had trouble seeing your problem here, cos I think that's fairly normal. Are you sure this isn't just imposter syndrome? But I think what you're getting at is you want to analyse at the same time as enjoying the story, so here's a suggestion: put down the book at the end of a chapter and make some notes/discuss it with a buddy - hitting a checklist (e.g. "what do I think of these characters?" each chapter), random stuff you notice, or whatever. Try to be as precise as possible to get the most out of analysis.
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Nov 21, 2022 15:36
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a friendly penguin posted:Obviously this is a problem as I try to improve my writing. It's not really as dire as I make it out to be, but I would like to know if any of you all have advice for how to pay better attention while I'm reading so that I can critically evaluate other authors' works and also apply similar evaluation to editing my own writing. I'm very much a checklist type person, and while I can check the box "develop your characters" all day long, I need to hone my ability to identify, evaluate and project the consequences of my character choices. I'm sure there's people who can read and do all sorts of complex analytics while consuming the story too--I've seen how half of Tamsyn Muir's fanbase talks about her poo poo. I just know that's never going to work for me, and every time I try, I wind up missing out on enjoying the story (one of the most important parts of reading stories) or I get completely lost. imo it's way more important to be able to answer the question "why did I enjoy that" than "what did that do well," because taste is subjective as hell. It helps to know someone who's read the same book too, but isn't always necessary.
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Nov 21, 2022 16:23
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Okay, so I finished the first draft of my first novel. I need feedback, but no one in my life will read it. The only person I know who reads books regularly is my mother; she exclusively reads historical fiction. She also thinks creative endeavours are valueless. How do I get feedback? Do I have to pay someone?
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Nov 24, 2022 16:24
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You can ask here, but you'll have to give more information than just "it's a novel" - there's also plenty of spaces online you can go to ask people if they'll give it a read, but most of them will ask that you engage with the community a bit, so you're not just showing up and demanding eyeballs. The Absolute Write forums, discords like WriteHive, plenty of smaller private communities... Doing like, a crit-for-crit share with someone will also help your own writing and editing. There's nothing like trying to understand what does and doesn't work for you in another person's WIP to help you practice understanding this in your own, for editing purposes. It's mutually beneficial! Or you could always just head into the self pub thread and ask for recommendations for paid editors. This isn't a great idea (or even good (i would go so far as to call it a bullshit idea personally)) for a first draft of a first novel, but it's always on the cards.
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Nov 24, 2022 17:34
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Okay, thanks for the recommendations. I guess I could give more information here if anyone is interested in reading it. I highly doubt it, though. I am a bad writer with bad ideas. It's hard to describe without giving too much of the plot away, so I will try to describe the themes and some of the early plot details. The major protagonist is a young woman training to be a child psychologist. She ends up not doing that because of the plot. The secondary protagonist is a police officer who is a single father. There are themes related to toxic femininity in the workplace, patriarchy, toxic masculinity, body horror, self-acceptance, and anti-capitalism. It is similar in structure and content to Aliens, Terminator 1/2, Day of the Dead, and They Live. My dream goal would be to get it published somewhere, but I realize that is a bit unrealistic, so I'm satisfied with at least having a good second or third draft.
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Nov 24, 2022 17:49
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Ok I may extremely dumb, where is the Thunderdome discord and do you need an invite? I don’t have plat and my searching skills are not proving up to the task at the moment.
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Nov 24, 2022 18:06
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Dr.D-O posted:I am a bad writer with bad ideas. Everybody starts somewhere. Don't sweat it, that's what feedback is for. Dr.D-O posted:The major protagonist is a young woman training to be a child psychologist. She ends up not doing that because of the plot. The secondary protagonist is a police officer who is a single father. So sci-fi horror/dystopian? Dr.D-O posted:It's hard to describe without giving too much of the plot away, so I will try to describe the themes and some of the early plot details. I would not stress about this. It's a first draft. Trying to be vague about what your book is about is going to make it harder for you to get people interested to crit it. For example, I don't read a lot of sci-fi horror/dystopian so right now I'm sitting here thinking this is probably not my kind of book. But I am interested in the themes. Themes don't carry a book though, characters and/or plot do, so I kind of need more to figure out if I'd want to volunteer to read this. Who is this child psychologist in training and what does she want? Why can't she have it? Same for the single dad police officer. Dr.D-O posted:My dream goal would be to get it published somewhere, but I realize that is a bit unrealistic, so I'm satisfied with at least having a good second or third draft. With self-pub as an option, getting published is easy. It's selling books that's hard.
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Nov 24, 2022 19:43
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Yeah honestly don't bother with this spoiler aware can't give away the plot stuff. You want feedback, say what happens and post excerpts, feel free to post a thread.
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Nov 24, 2022 19:59
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REMEMBER SPONGE MONKEYS posted:Ok I may extremely dumb, where is the Thunderdome discord and do you need an invite? I don’t have plat and my searching skills are not proving up to the task at the moment. Yep it takes an invite. This might be expired? Worth a shot, it’s the most recent I found posted: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?noseen=1&threadid=3989882&pagenumber=58&perpage=40&highlight=Discord#post527248159
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Nov 25, 2022 05:49
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