oscarthewilde posted:

pseud poo poo OP

V. Illych L. posted:

it is worth noting that a lot of modern psychology (cognitive behaviour therapy being one notable example) is anti-dialectical in practice, in that it prescribes an effectively self-objectifying approach which it is not obviously possible to reconcile with any phenomenological idea of the self and good faith, i.e. dialectical rationality - basically, i exist in the world, and i perceive the world as meaningfully separate from myself and myself in it - what is *me* is what manipulates and interacts with the world. what cognitive behaviour therapy asks you to do is to distance yourself from yourself and start acting upon yourself as a piece of machinery, an object to be manipulated. however, the consciousness cannot simply distance - or alienate - itself from itself, and so you're left in a very weird position where you're telling people to do something fundamentally irrational and impossible because the attempt seems to have certain effects on the world.

psychoanalysis doesn't run into the same issues, because it uses or is easily adapted to dialectical reasoning itself.

V. Illych L. posted:

psychologisation is also the death of literature, conversations etc.

"oh paul robeson was only a communist because of the trauma of racism in the US in the 1920s and because the russians loved a low bass" is a classic style of argument from people who want to admire paul robeson but who do not want to take some part of his thinking seriously. "you only say this because of daddy issues" is another typical way of doing it - of reducing human consciousness and reason to a set of basically static variables. it's absolutely infuriating and it pops up *all the time* whenever people think someone with whom they clearly and violently disagree is impressive.

croup coughfield posted:

this is a cultural issue, not a problem with the field of psychology

croup coughfield posted:

this is a cultural issue, not a problem with the field of psychology

V. Illych L. posted:

psychoanalysis doesn't run into the same issues, because it uses or is easily adapted to dialectical reasoning itself.

Rhugor posted:

It has been years since I’ve listened to Rev Left, but I remember them being pretty anti psychology due to a host’s bad personal experiences. They kinda failed to make the connection that capitalism kinda forces the field into directions and treatments that aren’t always best or most useful, and doubled down on their own personal experience.

Again, its been awhile since I’ve listened and it may have changed, but the outright immediate dismissal of a science as essentially bad always sat poorly with me.

Rhugor posted:

Materially, as someone that works in the field, its pretty blatant that most “mental illness” diagnoses are exacerbated or caused by bad material conditions, poverty and alienation. Clinical depression and anxiety are basically “what does alienation do to a person physically and mentally?”.

I might be biased due to working in the field, but its also the easiest method for Agitating and a ton of therapy is just pointing out contradictions and helping people resolve them. Anecdotally, it has moved a significant chunk of my clients from complete political apathy to “hey yeah what is up with our societal and cultural contradictions?”.

Unfortunately, I’m in a rural area so there’s no real left organizing to point people to as everything “left” in NA is mostly Urban focused if even coherent at all.

V. Illych L. posted:

it is worth noting that a lot of modern psychology (cognitive behaviour therapy being one notable example) is anti-dialectical in practice, in that it prescribes an effectively self-objectifying approach which it is not obviously possible to reconcile with any phenomenological idea of the self and good faith, i.e. dialectical rationality - basically, i exist in the world, and i perceive the world as meaningfully separate from myself and myself in it - what is *me* is what manipulates and interacts with the world. what cognitive behaviour therapy asks you to do is to distance yourself from yourself and start acting upon yourself as a piece of machinery, an object to be manipulated. however, the consciousness cannot simply distance - or alienate - itself from itself, and so you're left in a very weird position where you're telling people to do something fundamentally irrational and impossible because the attempt seems to have certain effects on the world.

psychoanalysis doesn't run into the same issues, because it uses or is easily adapted to dialectical reasoning itself.

Rhugor posted:

There are a lot of other therapy approaches that are basically ignored or not even taught in the US for these reasons.

Sunny Side Up posted:

After some family trauma in early 2021 the host went way into woo-woo stuff for a while and is still there like 50% of the time.

Rhugor posted:

Ah okay, that makes sense Rev Left wise.

EMDR is mostly used for trauma and its a newer technique that a lot are still unsure of. I’ve never seen it done to be honest, but as some with some experience in treating trauma, it frankly sounds like one of the basic techniques that is already widely used slightly modified and “ginned up” by someone looking to make a brand for themselves and to make a quick buck off of it. PTSD treatment has always used stimulation or VR to try to recreate the situation and help walk the brain and person through processing it. Trauma is basically the brain replaying some experience over to try to learn from it, but getting “stuck” and replaying it over and over in the form of dreams, flashbacks, etc etc. EMDR may be building off that, but I am unsure.

Gestalt is a theoretical approach created by socialists and Dadaists, there is also existential, Adlerian, and a few others that you can pretty much only get through a specialist or private practice. Most average people going to your standard mental health agency are lucky to get anything more than CBT, if even that.

Anxiety wise, basically a good basic technique is called STOP (Stop, Take a break/breath, Observe situation, Proceed with plan) and might be worth asking a professional about! If there’s a university nearby that has a counseling program they probably have a community clinic that their students intern and train at as its required for a masters degree in any accredited program. They are usually sliding scale, and ours was $10 a session max.

Rhugor posted:

Gestalt is a theoretical approach created by socialists and Dadaists, there is also existential, Adlerian, and a few others that you can pretty much only get through a specialist or private practice. Most average people going to your standard mental health agency are lucky to get anything more than CBT, if even that.

Rhugor posted:

It has been years since I’ve listened to Rev Left, but I remember them being pretty anti psychology due to a host’s bad personal experiences. They kinda failed to make the connection that capitalism kinda forces the field into directions and treatments that aren’t always best or most useful, and doubled down on their own personal experience.

Again, its been awhile since I’ve listened and it may have changed, but the outright immediate dismissal of a science as essentially bad always sat poorly with me.

Materially, as someone that works in the field, its pretty blatant that most “mental illness” diagnoses are exacerbated or caused by bad material conditions, poverty and alienation. Clinical depression and anxiety are basically “what does alienation do to a person physically and mentally?”.

I might be biased due to working in the field, but its also the easiest method for Agitating and a ton of therapy is just pointing out contradictions and helping people resolve them. Anecdotally, it has moved a significant chunk of my clients from complete political apathy to “hey yeah what is up with our societal and cultural contradictions?”.

Unfortunately, I’m in a rural area so there’s no real left organizing to point people to as everything “left” in NA is mostly Urban focused if even coherent at all.

Sunny Side Up posted:

Thank you for all this, it’s so interesting and different than what I’ve run into in the past. My SO has intense hypervigilance/PTSD, anxiety, and misophonia and it’s always been that CBT style uselessness.

croup coughfield posted:

lol at hustling a used book sale but good haul. anything interesting in there so far?

animist posted:

I have OCD and exposure therapy helped that a lot. For PTSD you usually wanna do that with a professional though, can instigate flashbacks etc

also tried Acceptance and Commitment therapy which I had some luck with. It's technically descended from CBT, but it struck me more as stripped-down zen buddhism in a therapy hat. You work on accepting and moving through difficult thoughts/feelings instead of trying to Spock yourself out of thinking them.

Obviously it still has no systemic critique etc but I found it helpful.

mawarannahr posted:

with psychs that claim a specialty in psychoanalysis,existential, Adlerian etc. in private practice, I think there’s an even smaller percentage of competent ones than amid the mainstream approaches. the course of treatment can be very long, frequent, and expensive, which makes even searching for the right therapist incredibly costly. you’re probably likelier to find someone who clicks with you in the mainstream in less time for much less money.

my dad posted:

worries about the near certainty of USA doing some dumb paratrooper poo poo or the like (Tito points out that an outright invasion is unlikely and it's probably going to be some weird commando raid, with Che saying that if something like that happens, it's going to fail miserably)

my dad posted:

with implications that there were some previous incidents, and with Che apologizing for his government's colder attitude towards Yugoslavia. I don't know anything relevant about Cuban-Yugoslav relations in that period, sadly, so I can't comment on it.

croup coughfield posted:

BrutalistMcDonalds posted:

https://hitchtube.fr/w/f1MbrtqzXaRz4dcTB1ww3E



she was right and everyone else was wrong. i might've been wrong too if i criticized her at the time for citicizing zizek, but i don't recall if i did because i can't remember what posts i made on the internet six years ago, but rest assured that if i did then i would submit myself to self-criticism

croup coughfield posted:

Epic High Five posted:

All the proof I need that DaVinci did make a working time machine.