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Tenasscity posted:I fired this email back, and CCed everyone in the dept that I spoke to. So they all know why they are still stuck with heavy workloads. In the future don't do this.
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Nov 14, 2022 15:59
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Yeah instead you should tell them to shove their bait-and-switch up their rear end
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Nov 14, 2022 16:02
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Don't actually do that, it's not the frontline people you're talking to's fault. The optimal thing to say is "please inform your superiors on my behalf that they should shove their bait-and-switch up their rear end. Thank you for your kind consideration, and I hope you can find a better job at a better company in the near future."
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Nov 14, 2022 16:08
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The correct response is:quote:Thank you for your time and consideration. Unfortunately, since your leadership team is unwilling to meet my requirements for the position I am withdrawing my candidacy for the role. I wish you success in your search. nobody cares what some random rear end candidate's opinion is. either the people already know what you're telling them, or they don't give a gently caress.
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Nov 14, 2022 16:21
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Fair points all, thanks for the feedback friends.
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Nov 14, 2022 16:24
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Also, I am not sure even if they did put it in writing if it would be a great idea. There are situations where "We want to put you in X role for Y time" is appropriate but not if they are advertising for a different job entirely. Even if it was in writing I'd probably still urge you to keep looking. There's a lot of red flags here and unless your current situation was completely untenable I am reasonably sure you'll find a better situation somewhere else.
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Nov 14, 2022 17:11
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Tenasscity posted:After 2 months of applying for jobs I found one that seemed like it was going to go through. But then the other shoe dropped. 
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Nov 14, 2022 17:50
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It’d also be a great idea to put a review on glassdoor to warn others for bait and switches.
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Nov 14, 2022 20:55
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Tenasscity posted:helpdesk level for 90 days A lot of things can happen in a job search, and sometimes companies change their mind about the level or the compensation or whatever and its worth sticking around to see if it can still work. BUT if a company surprises you with anything related to helpdesk or sales, you are literally being conned. Nobody applies to helpdesk or (low end) sales jobs because they're poo poo jobs, and the companies trying to hire for them know this so they'll lie and lie and lie to get you locked into a miserable job "just for a bit when you start" and of course you'll never get out.
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Nov 15, 2022 02:14
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Corla Plankun posted:A lot of things can happen in a job search, and sometimes companies change their mind about the level or the compensation or whatever and its worth sticking around to see if it can still work. BUT if a company surprises you with anything related to helpdesk or sales, you are literally being conned. Nobody applies to helpdesk or (low end) sales jobs because they're poo poo jobs, and the companies trying to hire for them know this so they'll lie and lie and lie to get you locked into a miserable job "just for a bit when you start" and of course you'll never get out.
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Nov 15, 2022 06:30
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leper khan posted:Yeah, just try to get an extra 10%. Don't defend it or provide reasoning, just "this feels like a good opportunity, can you work with $x?" Where x is whatever they said + 10%, rounded off so you don't look like a robot Dango Bango posted:Are you going to get pulled in to CAT events (wildfires, EQ, etc.)? Do you get any kind of extra hazard pay if so? Work/life balance will be the toughest part. I think I can handle it, but it's definitely something I'll have to adapt to. Fortunately they offer 3 weeks PTO per year, and they seem very willing to be accommodating in lots of ways to make things easier and more tolerable for all their field staff. I've asked in the BFC Business Travel thread for some advice on living out of a hotel, and I'll have to buy a nice laptop and such to keep me entertained while away from home.
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Nov 15, 2022 08:06
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:The correct response is: Strong agree on all points Although good on OP for telling them to go gently caress themselves in no uncertain terms
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Nov 15, 2022 13:15
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FMguru posted:The other common form of this (again, often seen on helpdesk/sales) is "contract to hire" jobs, which never quite seem to get around to the "...to hire" part of the arrangement. Only take a contract position if you’re cool with the terms and comp of the contract position itself.
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Nov 15, 2022 13:28
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literally this big posted:I won't be going into any active disasters, but I do need to worry about some of our loss sites being affected by asbestos, mold, etc. Sorry, I probably confused things with referring to it as hazard pay rather than overtime. What I meant was CAT response teams are usually on-site for weeks at a time responding to everyone's claims.
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Nov 15, 2022 13:49
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literally this big posted:I asked for a simple $1 increase, figuring they couldn't say no to that, and I got it. I had forgotten this was originally about an hourly rate and thought you were putting the pressure on them by being like "$60,000 is a little low for me, but I'll sign right now for $60,001."
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Nov 15, 2022 16:17
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literally this big posted:Fortunately they offer 3 weeks PTO per year, and they seem very willing to be accommodating in lots of ways to make things easier and more tolerable for all their field staff. m0therfux0r posted:I had forgotten this was originally about an hourly rate and thought you were putting the pressure on them by being like "$60,000 is a little low for me, but I'll sign right now for $60,001." 
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Nov 15, 2022 17:00
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:This is not a lot of PTO, at all. 3 weeks is pretty reasonable for the US It's not France, but getting "only" 3 weeks is not something I'd turn down a job for
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Nov 15, 2022 17:25
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Starting new employees at 3 weeks is high end for an hourly-wage level job in the US
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Nov 15, 2022 17:45
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Oh wow I thought we were talking salary Yeah that's fantastic for anywhere outside of healthcare
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Nov 15, 2022 18:07
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Hadlock posted:3 weeks is pretty reasonable for the US
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Nov 15, 2022 20:03
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My memory is especially bad lately, but I don’t recall it being asked: is part of the game to make the other side name a number first, or just let it ride until it comes up?
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Nov 16, 2022 21:51
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REMEMBER SPONGE MONKEYS posted:My memory is especially bad lately, but I don’t recall it being asked: is part of the game to make the other side name a number first, or just let it ride until it comes up? Yes let them say a number first.
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Nov 16, 2022 21:57
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And typically the longer you let it ride the more advantageous it is for you. They are spending more time/money interviewing than you are being interviewed. Let them sink more cost. This can backfire if you and them are wildly apart on expectations, but hopefully that should be rare.
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Nov 16, 2022 22:07
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Lockback posted:And typically the longer you let it ride the more advantageous it is for you. They are spending more time/money interviewing than you are being interviewed. Let them sink more cost. This can backfire if you and them are wildly apart on expectations, but hopefully that should be rare. That's because the companies that are trying to hire at way below market almost always pressure applicants to name their number at the beginning of the process. One time in my career I reached the final interview stage, with the owner and CFO of a smallish company, for a mid management position with 10 direct reports, when they revealed the salary they had in mind was--not a salary at all. They wanted to fill the position for fifteen (15) dollars per hour, times 40 hours per week. I ended the interview pretty much immediately. A dozen times or more, on the other hand, I've had phone screens end quickly when the HR rep refused to proceed without me naming a number, whereupon I named a very high number. That's what normally happens with cheapskate companies.
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Nov 16, 2022 22:34
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Dango Bango posted:Sorry, I probably confused things with referring to it as hazard pay rather than overtime. What I meant was CAT response teams are usually on-site for weeks at a time responding to everyone's claims. Hadlock posted:Oh wow I thought we were talking salary
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Nov 17, 2022 04:50
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Yeow that’s a spicy travel load Most high travel jobs are M-R or Sunday night - R for a reason
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Nov 17, 2022 13:52
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I've very early in the process of interviewing for a possible new position. The recruiter has given me a range, which was public on the listing. I applied because it's pretty close to what I'd accept but I think I want to get a little bit more than that range (less than 10% additional on the top of the range at maximum). Of course, the recruiter is asking if I'm okay with the number going forward. Based on this thread, the key is to get them to say a number first. Does this count? Is it okay to go and ask for that additional money now and see if they bite? Or do I have to drop it on them later? I only have so much time to interview. Also bear in mind that I'm unfortunately in the position where desperately need to leave the shithole I've found myself in. For this reason I am prepared to potentially take a small pay cut, but I'm hoping to minimize that. Is asking for an additional ~5% over the range publicly listed on a position early in the process likely to succeed? On the other hand, is changing tune late in the game likely to evoke a negative reaction, or will it be tolerated because by then they've had the chance to invest time into my candidacy? That seems more likely than forking over more money to a rando off the street. My inkling is to tell the recruiter "Tell them I'll need to be at the top of that range" and then try and negotiate at the offer stage, but this thread has proven my instincts are always wrong.
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Nov 18, 2022 10:19
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They've already said their first number and confirmed it to you, so go with the old "it'll depend on the duties of the role and the full benefits package but I'm confident we can come to an agreement" line.
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Nov 18, 2022 11:44
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Arquinsiel posted:They've already said their first number and confirmed it to you, so go with the old "it'll depend on the duties of the role and the full benefits package but I'm confident we can come to an agreement" line. Sorry one thing I failed to mention (don't post before coffee, or in my case, maybe I just shouldn't post at all  ) is they did send me the benefits information. Overall it's "not great, not terrible". A real 3.6 roentgen.
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Nov 18, 2022 12:59
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Don't expect much wiggle room then.
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Nov 18, 2022 13:45
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Two thoughts but you'll probably need to counter with a number since they have theirs. 1. I'd probably try to anchor early. "My salary target is (top end + 10%). I'd like to see if there's a good fit given (nice thing about company)." This has risk of them playing hardball but you can probably walk back to top end of range without appearing too soft. 2. String them along and let them fall in love while you still see if you can get engagement elsewhere. If they really fall in love they might bend or look to bring you on at a higher level. Ultimately if you're above the range they can do then there isn't anything that will change that.
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Nov 18, 2022 14:29
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I’ve got two competing offers from different companies (one of which I’d much rather work for) and boy negotiating feels horrible and nerve wracking and I hate it. Grateful I get the option to do it, though.
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Nov 21, 2022 19:21
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That's why it's important to get your practice in before it matters! I was in the same situation with two great offers recently. I didn't get everything I wanted, but I got closer. Always Negotiate.
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Nov 21, 2022 19:52
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BadSamaritan posted:I’ve got two competing offers from different companies (one of which I’d much rather work for) and boy negotiating feels horrible and nerve wracking and I hate it.
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Nov 21, 2022 20:28
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Funny enough, the company replied to the employee and indicated they would have honored the 2 months severance on top of their standard 3 months, except the original offer language said it would only be paid if they were laid off within a year of "transfer of control". The acquiring company completed what they call "transfer of business" just a few months ago, but they say that doesn't count as "transfer of control", which they reason happened over a year ago when the deal was initially signed. Like, the employee was one word away from getting the bonus months. Should they still fight it?
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Nov 24, 2022 00:17
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Zero VGS posted:Funny enough, the company replied to the employee and indicated they would have honored the 2 months severance on top of their standard 3 months, except the original offer language said it would only be paid if they were laid off within a year of "transfer of control". The acquiring company completed what they call "transfer of business" just a few months ago, but they say that doesn't count as "transfer of control", which they reason happened over a year ago when the deal was initially signed. Like, the employee was one word away from getting the bonus months. Should they still fight it? They should bring this to an employment lawyer, I think.
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Nov 24, 2022 00:26
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Zero VGS posted:Like, the employee was one word away from getting the bonus months. That's one way to look at it. Another way to look at it is that the employee was never going to get that bonus because the company was always going to find an excuse not to pay it.
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Nov 24, 2022 00:37
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Transfer of control means when the parent took the voting stock. If that happened a year ago then they're right, it's past his time. An employment lawyer might give him a free consultation to check it over, but if they moved the stock over a year ago that's pretty cut and dry. Transfer of business is a squishier thing but as it's not listed it's not relevant.
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Nov 24, 2022 00:39
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Eric the Mauve posted:That's one way to look at it. Another way to look at it is that the employee was never going to get that bonus because the company was always going to find an excuse not to pay it. This is basically HR’s entire job, isn’t it?
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Nov 24, 2022 01:19
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Lockback posted:Transfer of control means when the parent took the voting stock. If that happened a year ago then they're right, it's past his time. An employment lawyer might give him a free consultation to check it over, but if they moved the stock over a year ago that's pretty cut and dry.
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Nov 24, 2022 02:32
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