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Arcturas posted:Do you think there's a way they could add peaceful diplo-annexing? It seems really counter-intuitive that the best-case result to incorporate a neighbor in a friendly manner is to get a friendly protectorate relationship through customs union and then protectorate someone, then completely tank your relationship and expel diplomats and whatever else, until you can DP->puppet->annex them. This seems very frustrating. I can sorta understand it because it gives neighbors an opportunity to intervene in the different gradations of integration via the DPs, but it would be nice if there was a "friendly" diplomatic play where their willingness to back down was based off how much they liked you, not hated you, or similar. I've seen this mentioned a few times and I think I understand the logic as to why it's set up this way, but the interface needs to be better because a lot of people just don't even realize you can launch a play to annex a vassal since the option just doesn't show up at high relations. The reason I think it's set up this way is that high relations allow you, as a vassal, to create a safety buffer where your overlord can't annex you. So long as relations are above whatever the cutoff point is (20 I think?) you're safe. If your overlord starts damaging relations, that also gives you early warning that they're going to try some poo poo and lets you hunt around for some allies before they launch the play. The problem is that most players are seeing this from the overlord's perspective and thinking "They love me so I should be able to annex them for free" but from the vassal's perspective that high relationship is meant to secure their autonomy, not make them easier to annex.
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Nov 22, 2022 04:31
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Arcturas posted:Do you think there's a way they could add peaceful diplo-annexing? It seems really counter-intuitive that the best-case result to incorporate a neighbor in a friendly manner is to get a friendly protectorate relationship through customs union and then protectorate someone, then completely tank your relationship and expel diplomats and whatever else, until you can DP->puppet->annex them. This seems very frustrating. I can sorta understand it because it gives neighbors an opportunity to intervene in the different gradations of integration via the DPs, but it would be nice if there was a "friendly" diplomatic play where their willingness to back down was based off how much they liked you, not hated you, or similar. Top of my head requirements/factors: High relations Accepted pops of annexee would be accepted upon being annexed Economically healthy Interest groups in gov't of annexee would not become marginalized upon being annexed
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Nov 22, 2022 04:31
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I have a feeling that peaceful diplo annexing would be less of an issue if it was possible to build within your own protectorates.
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Nov 22, 2022 04:49
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The Cheshire Cat posted:I've seen this mentioned a few times and I think I understand the logic as to why it's set up this way, but the interface needs to be better because a lot of people just don't even realize you can launch a play to annex a vassal since the option just doesn't show up at high relations. The reason I think it's set up this way is that high relations allow you, as a vassal, to create a safety buffer where your overlord can't annex you. So long as relations are above whatever the cutoff point is (20 I think?) you're safe. If your overlord starts damaging relations, that also gives you early warning that they're going to try some poo poo and lets you hunt around for some allies before they launch the play. The problem is that most players are seeing this from the overlord's perspective and thinking "They love me so I should be able to annex them for free" but from the vassal's perspective that high relationship is meant to secure their autonomy, not make them easier to annex. They could flip this so that low relations make it impossible to diploannex, which would accomplish the same result while also making more intuitive sense. As it is, a vassal state being rebellious and disliking their overlord is more susceptible to integration - doesn’t really make sense.
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Nov 22, 2022 04:56
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The integration is involuntary. When relations are good there's no reason to mess with the status quo. When they're bad you start wonder whether you gotta force it before they decide they don't want to be a subject anymore.
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Nov 22, 2022 05:16
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Fuligin posted:love it, wish it was toned down a bit for the sake of my graphics card and cause you get some incredible urban sprawl that should feel rarer outside a few places by the end date To be fair, we are playing the game with the benefit of hindsight and for long-term growth of the country. In history, people are often a lot more short-sighted and try to grow their own power and influence at the expense of others. It's part of why the landlords get broken ahistorically early for many countries - the ruling class didn't have a nebulous will of the country kicking them out of government and trying to pass laws that they hated.
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Nov 22, 2022 05:31
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Ithle01 posted:I have a feeling that peaceful diplo annexing would be less of an issue if it was possible to build within your own protectorates. This too. If I could force protectorates/whoever to build rubber plantations and oil rigs, as happened historically, it would help alleviate many of the late game frustrations.
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Nov 22, 2022 06:24
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Arcturas posted:This too. If I could force protectorates/whoever to build rubber plantations and oil rigs, as happened historically, it would help alleviate many of the late game frustrations. This is the big issue. Having dominions/protectorates/vassals wouldn't be an issue if you could influence them in the slightest way. It's particularly egregious with the British/Dutch East India companies, these are literally resource extraction engines that won't extract resources.
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Nov 22, 2022 07:11
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trapped mouse posted:Vicky 3 was part of Wiz's nefarious plan to make us all Reagan/Thatcherites Speak for yourself, it's obviously just demonstrating the advantages of the Dengist model
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Nov 22, 2022 08:21
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Hiveminded posted:Speak for yourself, it's obviously just demonstrating the advantages of the Dengist model Slam dunk for Luol Deng on this one, IMO.
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Nov 22, 2022 08:22
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DJ_Mindboggler posted:This is the big issue. Having dominions/protectorates/vassals wouldn't be an issue if you could influence them in the slightest way. It's particularly egregious with the British/Dutch East India companies, these are literally resource extraction engines that won't extract resources. Not being able to purposefully dismantle all the competing industries in the colonial holdings to make sure they have to buy from the parent country at massively inflated prices while forcing the locals to work in worse and worse raw resource extraction jobs is very un-victoria-like of the game.
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Nov 22, 2022 09:02
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Zeroisanumber posted:Anyone else having a problem where you win a battle and only take a single province? Did I gently caress something up? Yes, I do - happens for all battles on a given front, seems to be linked to allies? I usually have to go and start another front via a naval invasion if it’s an issue.
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Nov 22, 2022 09:56
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Is tech spread also impacted by what industries you already have in your country, or is it just based on your proximity to and openness / diplo / trade relations with other countries ? I feel like somewhere several DLCs down the line, the tech tree could be replaced with something a bit more interesting. The game already simulates all the individual moving parts of technological advancement in the victorian period - private sector, public sector, diplomatic relations, domestic scientific / intellectual community. You could definitely set up a system that models all the possible mechanisms of technological change - private sector research, public sector investment, independent invention, hiring of foreign advisors to bring new technologies to a country, etc.
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Nov 22, 2022 10:40
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The East India Company began a play to attack me and then shortly after backed down from their own play, resulting in me collecting some War Reps for no work. I haven't seen something like that. They had just had a big civil war, so maybe the calculation for "should start a play" and "should back down" weren't quite aligned and I received a little political arbitrage.
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Nov 22, 2022 14:26
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GreenMarine posted:The East India Company began a play to attack me and then shortly after backed down from their own play, resulting in me collecting some War Reps for no work. I haven't seen something like that. They had just had a big civil war, so maybe the calculation for "should start a play" and "should back down" weren't quite aligned and I received a little political arbitrage. Did someone join the play against them? I've done exactly this when it's like, "I'll take this province" and then the UK joins the play against me and I'm like "OK, I don't want it that much"
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Nov 22, 2022 16:09
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I'm playing a relaxing game as France to just do whatever I want England decided to start a diplo play against me to conquer Dahomey (my puppet) and grab a treaty port in Aquitaine. Since they started it in Africa, no other big powers can join, and England + all their cronies don't even have enough soldiers to get a numerical advantage (I have 280 regiments vs their 210 or so?), and they're worried about it already. I decided to add reparations + transfer Lower Canada to me as wargoals, to liberate the francophones from perfidious Albion. I'm going to start mobilizing everything so they get even more scared and back down, but just in case they don't back down and we go to war, the only actual borders we share are in the Caribbean and in Africa. How do I best kick their butts and liberate my francophone brothers in Canada?
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Nov 22, 2022 16:15
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If I want Opium, who should I invade with the least likelihood of consequences? Right now the easiest ones to access are probably Egypt (through my African colonies) and Siam.
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Nov 22, 2022 16:46
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Kraftwerk posted:If I want Opium, who should I invade with the least likelihood of consequences? It's usually pretty easy to puppet and then annex Burma.
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Nov 22, 2022 16:53
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Kraftwerk posted:If I want Opium, who should I invade with the least likelihood of consequences? You basically want to take what you can get without someone too big intervening. There are really only three regions that are accessible, Indochina with Dai Nam, Siam, and Burma; northern India with Sindh; and North Africa with Egypt.
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Nov 22, 2022 17:05
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Gort posted:Did someone join the play against them? I've done exactly this when it's like, "I'll take this province" and then the UK joins the play against me and I'm like "OK, I don't want it that much" It happened pretty fast so I didn't notice, but I'd guess France joined. That makes sense then.
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Nov 22, 2022 17:08
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I was able to puppet Najd, can I force them to build oil rigs or do I have to want and annex them? I will HAPPILY subsidize their country if I can get the oil from it.
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Nov 22, 2022 17:19
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Elendil004 posted:I was able to puppet Najd, can I force them to build oil rigs or do I have to want and annex them? I will HAPPILY subsidize their country if I can get the oil from it. I saw mods to force subjects to build things, Banana Republic style, but in vanilla there's no way to make resource extraction subjects extract resources.
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Nov 22, 2022 17:27
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Yeah the colonialism needs some work, what Paradox game doesn't need 2-3 expansions to get good ofc but it's a little bit of a bummer that the imperialism simulator isn't super great at simulating imperialism. In my current Japan game I got a sugar obsession so I conquered Hawaii, bulldozed the entire domestic economy, and turned the entire island chain into nothing but a port and 20 sugar plantations. Those are the only two jobs available if you're a Hawaiian, no industry or food only growing sugar and exporting sugar back to Japan. Felt like a pretty cool imperialist rear end in a top hat, until I realized that the Hawaiians are now the best-paid workers in the entire empire because of how profitable the plantations are. That's my surplus value goddamn it, why are discriminated pops in a colonial resource extraction state getting a share of the profits? That should all be going into the pockets of my upper class 
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Nov 22, 2022 17:33
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build a railroad and turn on the rail transit option, you need more unemployed Hawaiians to drive wages down
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Nov 22, 2022 17:40
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 Ah, my government working in harmony. Surely, this will be... Oh no! 
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Nov 22, 2022 18:06
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Getting a little frustrated with all the bugs and jank: As Prussia I puppeted Denmark, which transferred PUs of Schlesswig and Holstein to me. Then I formed Germany and S-H became part of Germany, but Denmark remained a puppet. So far, so good. Then later Sweden formed Scandinavia and Denmark – who were Loyal/Amicable! – just... went to Scandinavia. That shouldn't be possible, a puppet shouldn't be able to join any formed nation unless their overlord is doing the forming, at least not without a play/war. In this case that wouldn't have even been possible because Sweden were my ally. I was trying to pass proportional taxation and had 3 IGs in government that either support or strongly support it: the Army, Intelligentsia, and trade unions. Mousing over the little ideology icons for each IG show that they support it, and their leaders don't have any traits that cause them to oppose it. But when I actually try to enact it the success % is single digit low and mousing over it shows only the trade unions are are contributing to the success %. This has to be a bug. I reformed the government and kicked all 3 of them out, then reformed again with all 3 of them in and same thing. It took me 3 attempts to pass because the success % was so low. Everyone's favorite, war fronts fractal splitting and creating many new undefended fronts. Especially annoying when it's a naval invasion so there's only one general on the front so the newly split, undefended front simply collapses and you lose your beachhead. I've resorted to exploiting the bug that lets you instantly teleport another general plus army by assigning them to the front and then toggling advance/defend by right clicking in the outliner. Why do generals have traits for particular terrain like woods or mountains or whatever, when all we as players can do is assign them to an entire front? What good is a terrain bonus when I don't pick who fights which battles or where? It feels like a system meant for a different game. Lack of finer control of trade. My rival France are buying 85% of my entire iron output. Yeah sure I could embargo, but that costs influence and also stops all other trade. Unless I'm running laissez-faire I should be able to stop this or slow it down. I mean yes, in my case I eat the 200 bird mana cost and embargo them, but it just isn't realistic, France shouldn't *want* to be this dependent on their rival. The AI does this all the time; I'm usually way ahead on ironclads so most of the great powers end up importing my ships which cripples them if I'm ever at war with them. This makes the AI so much weaker.
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Nov 22, 2022 18:16
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Family Values posted:I was trying to pass proportional taxation and had 3 IGs in government that either support or strongly support it: the Army, Intelligentsia, and trade unions. Mousing over the little ideology icons for each IG show that they support it, and their leaders don't have any traits that cause them to oppose it. But when I actually try to enact it the success % is single digit low and mousing over it shows only the trade unions are are contributing to the success %. This has to be a bug. I reformed the government and kicked all 3 of them out, then reformed again with all 3 of them in and same thing. It took me 3 attempts to pass because the success % was so low.
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Nov 22, 2022 18:43
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So how DO I root out this fascism that is now taking over the other IGs?
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Nov 22, 2022 18:49
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Elendil004 posted:
This was inevitable the moment you went into coalition with a man named Lysander Kane
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Nov 22, 2022 18:53
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Crazycryodude posted:In my current Japan game I got a sugar obsession so I conquered Hawaii, bulldozed the entire domestic economy, and turned the entire island chain into nothing but a port and 20 sugar plantations. Those are the only two jobs available if you're a Hawaiian, no industry or food only growing sugar and exporting sugar back to Japan. Felt like a pretty cool imperialist rear end in a top hat This game’s been doing that, huh. I was telling myself going into it I was only going to do minimal imperialism, and I felt really bad taking my first colony, but now after 50 hours I’m at the point I grab whatever I can get and annihilate domestic industry without flinching, turning almost the entire countries into rubber and opium plantations. 
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Nov 22, 2022 19:16
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Koramei posted:This game’s been doing that, huh. I was telling myself going into it I was only going to do minimal imperialism, and I felt really bad taking my first colony, but now after 50 hours I’m at the point I grab whatever I can get and annihilate domestic industry without flinching, turning almost the entire countries into rubber and opium plantations. Part of it really is paradox not actually playing the game here - there is absolutely no way they saw the way opium demand required invading India as Denmark or whatever to have a military hospital and thought “ahhh, as intended”, as the AI just never uses that PM. no news from paradox besides a vague post about adding more oil and “planning to” work on the AI really has me down. They’re gonna start losing folks eventually without some news or the first major patch
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Nov 22, 2022 19:32
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Eiba posted:Sindh is easy to overlook in northern India. So I attempted to vassalize Siam, and Germany intervened on their behalf. On land my armies could fight them but at sea the German navy consisting primarily of man-o-wars defeated all my monitors with torpedo boats because apparently having more ships than me somehow means they're better even though in real life its very unlikely a man-o-war could do gently caress all against ironclads.
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Nov 22, 2022 19:32
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Yeah, can recommend conquering Sindh. It gets you lots of good stuff - opium and dye in particular. There're a lot of people working there too, and lots of arable land. I've never had a Great Power back them in a play, and their troops are a walkover.
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Nov 22, 2022 19:38
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that whole part of central Asia seems to fall into the gaps. My biggest regret as Persia so far is being friendly instead of just taking them over and forcing them to develop
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Nov 22, 2022 19:48
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My armed forces IG doubled in clout because I hit the 20 general limit and have been forced to promote almost all of them to keep every battalion under command, and the recruitment pool offers me Armed Forces generals probably 3/4 of the time and never any good IGs.
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Nov 22, 2022 19:48
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Waifu Radia posted:Part of it really is paradox not actually playing the game here - there is absolutely no way they saw the way opium demand required invading India as Denmark or whatever to have a military hospital and thought “ahhh, as intended”, as the AI just never uses that PM. apparently they never tested naval combat either because ironclads easily lose to man of wars
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Nov 22, 2022 19:52
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Stairmaster posted:apparently they never tested naval combat either because ironclads easily lose to man of wars Do they? They've got like, double the stats
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Nov 22, 2022 19:59
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Raw fleet size numbers wins for ages, I've had monitors lose to ships of the line because it was 30 to 45, when it should be a cakewalk. The only time I've had ships really win is when my opponent has a massive supply shortage so all the ships have terrible morale. Or when I've outnumbered them overwhelmingly with much better ships.
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Nov 22, 2022 20:13
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Gort posted:Yeah, can recommend conquering Sindh. It gets you lots of good stuff - opium and dye in particular. There're a lot of people working there too, and lots of arable land. The BEIC has rushed Sindh in the first year or so in my last few games. Luckily Lower Egypt is usually available, with the bonus that you can snag Sinai in the war too. Relatedly, do the Suez/Panama canals have any effect on trade, or is it just the flat 100 prestige the info screen shows?
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Nov 22, 2022 20:19
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Eiba posted:Sindh is easy to overlook in northern India. Persia also has opium. Fars has both opium and oil, which is nice. Gort posted:Yeah, can recommend conquering Sindh. It gets you lots of good stuff - opium and dye in particular. There're a lot of people working there too, and lots of arable land. I've had the EIC attack me for Sindh once after I conquered it. And that means like 5 fronts, since their puppets neighboring you get your own fronts. It's safe if they've become a British puppet, but they start as a dominion.
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Nov 22, 2022 20:26
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