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Tree Reformat
Apr 2, 2022

by Fluffdaddy

Clarste posted:

I don't know if this is what you meant, but honestly this game makes no sense in multiplayer. Because all the gameplay is about switching through your team, with each character being closer to a single spell than a complete playable unit. But multiplayer completely ruins that and you end up controlling XQ or whatever and feeling weak and useless.

It has the MOBA/team FPS problem of everyone wanting to play carry in multiplayer, though thankfully without the hours long sessions that force everyone into hating each other by the end.

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Vargs
Mar 27, 2010

Pulled Yae and I'm quite liking her. Trying to settle on a team. I've been running Yae + C6 Fischl + Nahida + C4 Sayu which I enjoy but I'm interested in other options.

Yae + Nahida are non-negotiable. Sayu I wouldn't mind ditching because I prefer having a skill healer rather than a burst one for general gameplay, and keeping VV up is irritating + often feels like a waste of time against anything that isn't super tanky. Would taking C4 Kuki instead be a terrible idea? I haven't built her yet so I'm not sure if she's actually any good at healing or if her electro would help proc any worthwhile aggravate. What about turning it into a hyperbloom team by using Kokomi as a healer?

Raiden is supposedly coming up soon and I might pick her up. How would she do as a replacement for Fischl, either in a setup with Kokomi adding hydro or one without? Preferably in an off-field role with EM. The higher range sounds pretty appealing.

mikemil828
May 15, 2008

A man who has said too much

Vargs posted:

Pulled Yae and I'm quite liking her. Trying to settle on a team. I've been running Yae + C6 Fischl + Nahida + C4 Sayu which I enjoy but I'm interested in other options.

Yae + Nahida are non-negotiable. Sayu I wouldn't mind ditching because I prefer having a skill healer rather than a burst one for general gameplay, and keeping VV up is irritating + often feels like a waste of time against anything that isn't super tanky. Would taking C4 Kuki instead be a terrible idea? I haven't built her yet so I'm not sure if she's actually any good at healing or if her electro would help proc any worthwhile aggravate. What about turning it into a hyperbloom team by using Kokomi as a healer?

Raiden is supposedly coming up soon and I might pick her up. How would she do as a replacement for Fischl, either in a setup with Kokomi adding hydro or one without? Preferably in an off-field role with EM. The higher range sounds pretty appealing.

I use Zhongli with 4 piece Archaic Petra as the 4th member, with him Yae can put up her turrets without worry.

ninjoatse.cx
Apr 9, 2005

Fun Shoe

Clarste posted:

I don't know if this is what you meant, but honestly this game makes no sense in multiplayer. Because all the gameplay is about switching through your team, with each character being closer to a single spell than a complete playable unit. But multiplayer completely ruins that and you end up controlling XQ or whatever and feeling weak and useless.

Edit: Edited the wrong post in the wrong thread, somehow.

I play multiplayer all the time and it works great, if not better, than single player. Your main DPSs can be supports, and your supports can get extra mileage for booster 3 other players at once. Some players, like Xingqiu, drops down significantly, and other are down right worthless (Thoma), but you also unlock lots of top notch combos between characters who really want o be on the field at the same time, like Hu Tao, Ayato, Ayaka, Yoimiya, etc. A well built Raiden in coop means every will always have their bursts up, regardless of team composition.

Clarste
Apr 15, 2013

Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.

ninjoatse.cx posted:

I play multiplayer all the time and it works great, if not better, than single player. Your main DPSs can be supports, and your supports can get extra mileage for booster 3 other players at once. Some players, like Xingqiu, drops down significantly, and other are down right worthless (Thoma), but you also unlock lots of top notch combos between characters who really want o be on the field at the same time, like Hu Tao, Ayato, Ayaka, Yoimiya, etc. A well built Raiden in coop means every will always have their bursts up, regardless of team composition.

Yeah, but what do you do with Raiden when your ult is on cooldown? Dinky white damage? Even with infinite energy you still have cooldowns.

Happy Underpants
Jul 23, 2007

Tuxedo Catfish posted:

basically there are three conflicting design priorities when it comes to F2P mmo boss design

1. straight DPS races where you don't have to think about mechanics at all are boring. the solution to this is to introduce mechanics you literally can't ignore, but if done naively, that leads to problem number 2

2. phases where the boss is invulnerable and you can't advance the win condition, only "avoid dying" or w/e, are boring (invuln is fine if there's something pro-active to do like gathering glowy bits or killing certain adds or something, but just "dodge for 10 seconds" is no bueno. never leave the player with only reactive options.)

the solution to BOTH the above problems is do them at the same time. make the player dodge nasty attack patterns while dealing DPS and/or pursuing mandatory secondary objectives. this, however, runs into design constraint #3

3. F2P games almost inevitably power creep and power creep, past a certain point, almost inevitably enables/creates a subset of whales who disagree with point #1 and are willing to spend bajillions of dollars to opt out of having to actually play the game. this is often the most financially lucrative audience to chase, and the minute you start catering to them is the same moment you start hemorrhaging normal players who actually enjoy video games

genshin isn't nearly as far down this self-destructive spiral as some stuff i've played (rip Dungeon Fighter Online) but there are hints of it here and there

This is really insightful.

The thing I hate most about the combat is teleporting. I have to chase the boss (Or the whopperflower or the abyss mage or the cicin mage or the mirror maiden...) for the fight I want to have. Raiden and Scaramouche both climb into giant mecha and both blink out of the way of my foot-bound dps. It's sad that the most obvious solution is to grind big enough numbers to obviate the mechanics of those fights but even if I do that there are bosses that waste my time with what can only be described as dance solos.

Edit: After using Heizou and his enemy seeking E & Q a lot, there's no excuse for Ningguang's lovely tracking. The lady has too much poise to have such a sloppy Q.

Happy Underpants fucked around with this message at 07:19 on Nov 22, 2022

Mailer
Nov 4, 2009

Have you accepted The Void as your lord and savior?
I had forgotten the Diluc event did offer a hardmode. The only events I didn't full clear were a few of the earlier choose-your-difficulty ones, and that's largely because I didn't have the characters (or didn't have them built) that could do them. Since they decided to frontload all the good rewards to earlier tiers I stopped caring about it.

Clarste posted:

I don't know if this is what you meant, but honestly this game makes no sense in multiplayer. Because all the gameplay is about switching through your team, with each character being closer to a single spell than a complete playable unit. But multiplayer completely ruins that and you end up controlling XQ or whatever and feeling weak and useless.

The team-building is one of the good aspects of the game that I enjoy, so multiplayer has never had anything for me. When I'm forced to do it for an event I grumble and do it, but otherwise it's a straight single-player game for me. That event was effectively your roster plus four rotating freebies (which we've had others since) and I think you couldn't use the same character twice in a row. It was kinda like Abyss Lite, and was nothing near hard. You could clear all the gem-giving tiers using just the freebie characters in 2-man teams.

The complaint wasn't about the format, though, it was about the lack of multiplayer. Like a large number of very loud people had been carried through the entire game by whales in multiplayer and when confronted with solo content completely fell apart.

DancingShade
Jul 26, 2007

by Fluffdaddy

Tuxedo Catfish posted:

oh, right, this is probably archer privilege speaking again lol

what if we compromise and give the player a universal teleport of their own

Try Yae Miko privilege. Where is Signora again? Oh behind me somewhere. Oh she's dead lol

Yes I know she's not for everyone. But I love her playstyle. Goes bonkers if you really invest in her with team & build but I suppose that's true for most. But the others don't have a bunch of turrets.

Zenostein
Aug 16, 2008

:h::h::h:Alhamdulillah-chan:h::h::h:

Clarste posted:

Yeah, but what do you do with Raiden when your ult is on cooldown? Dinky white damage? Even with infinite energy you still have cooldowns.

White and purple.

And it's fine, the stasi won't swoop in in the middle of the night to take you away for doing normal attacks.


But it doesn't matter, the real purpose of coop is helping l.20 people out by deleting whatever they're stuck on with qiqi.

x1o
Aug 5, 2005

My focus is UNPARALLELED!
I use coop to clear the weekly bosses at level 90 as I can just sit back and chip away with Ganyu while someone else uses their C6R5 Raiden or whatever to just delete 80% of it's health.

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

You visit Haniyyah's shroom farm a couple weeks later and just find a bunch of wild shrooms and a skeleton.

DancingShade
Jul 26, 2007

by Fluffdaddy

Ytlaya posted:

You visit Haniyyah's shroom farm a couple weeks later and just find a bunch of wild shrooms and a skeleton.

You'll find nothing but the meat moss from System Shock 2 and Shodan telling you to run, hacker, pathetic creature of meat and bone, sweating as you flee inside her perfect body.

Xerxes has something to say
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGWEnaZamBo

DancingShade fucked around with this message at 12:26 on Nov 22, 2022

Meowywitch
Jan 14, 2010

Fight for all that is beautiful in the world

is shinobu worth using at c0

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

HA! HA! NICE! WHAT A TOOL!

Nyaawn posted:

is shinobu worth using at c0
Yes. Her cons do almost nothing because her damage comes from reactions not her baby scaling. 300EM+crit for her decent aggravate build, 1000EM for her amazing hyperbloom build.

No Wave fucked around with this message at 16:05 on Nov 22, 2022

Bananasaurus Rex
Mar 19, 2009

Nyaawn posted:

is shinobu worth using at c0

Yup. Using her at C0 in my hyperbloom team and she works great. Just cleared abyss with her on my nahida team. Its a bit annoying not having her skill up 100% but its not that much of a dps loss really. The bigger radius on her skill would also be nice to have for sure.

DeadFatDuckFat
Oct 29, 2012

This avatar brought to you by the 'save our dead gay forums' foundation.


Layla should have an alternate outfit where shes just wearing pajamas

Space Opera
Jun 5, 2011

That rabbit's got a vicious streak a mile wide! It's a killer!

I run co-op domains when I get bored of instantly deleting stuff while grinding for that one perfect artifact. Yes it takes longer but at this point there's not much left for me to do outside of events. And occasionally I get to see cool stuff like C6R5 raidens or really really dumb stuff like atk%/crdmg Kokomis.

Asimo
Sep 23, 2007


No Wave posted:

Yes. Her cons do almost nothing because her damage comes from reactions not her baby scaling. 300EM+crit for her decent aggravate build, 1000EM for her amazing hyperbloom build.
Well C1 and C2 do useful things by giving her a bit larger AOE and making her skill 100% uptime but neither are really required for using her well. They're basically luxury bonuses.

Sanctum
Feb 14, 2005

Property was their religion
A church for one
I reached 700 achievements but let me tell you one achievement I don't have.



Defeat 4x opponents with superconduct. Not even once. :lmao::dumbbravo:

FractalSandwich
Apr 25, 2010
I've used my expert cartographic skills to sketch out a speculative map of future zones based only on what you can currently see from places easily accessible in-game.



I'm absolutely convinced they've got plans for the southern coast of Liyue, based partly on a "road to nowhere" leading there from Sumeru.

I'm more skeptical about the desert coast in Sumeru. I think they probably stayed away from there very deliberately to make the desert feel more... deserty. I actually imagined it extending further south like the dunes in the west, but at least as it currently is in-game, the continent abruptly ends just outside the playable area. You can see it from right near the southernmost waypoint just to the west of the big robot; you don't have to go out of your way at all.

I honestly have no idea where Natlan is supposed to be, but the only real possibilities are "west of Fontaine" and "north of Fontaine", and the big east-west mountain range along the northern edge of Sumeru is the only thing I could find that even might be a clue.

Meowywitch
Jan 14, 2010

Fight for all that is beautiful in the world

FractalSandwich posted:

I've used my expert cartographic skills to sketch out a speculative map of future zones based only on what you can currently see from places easily accessible in-game.

heres some other guys speculative map on reddit as well (which, if anything, is cool to look at!) (the user: jRodrik)



No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

HA! HA! NICE! WHAT A TOOL!

Nyaawn posted:

heres some other guys speculative map on reddit as well (which, if anything, is cool to look at!) (the user: jRodrik)




I see this and feel more dread than excitement. Guess I should take a year off.

MajorBonnet
May 28, 2009

How did I get here?
It feels kind of crazy that we only have 3 more nations plus Khaenriah to reach the end of the known story line. I'm sure that will only lead to some bigger story line because it seems like this money train doesn't have any brakes.

Kale
May 14, 2010

Saxophone posted:

I got to play as Ayato in a mission and drat I want that guy now. Just absolutely a murder machine.

Theres a leaked list of characters appearing in the 3.3 event and hes on there so theres a reasonably good chance he'll be getting a rerun along with his sister who may be getting a costume. The full leaked list is:

Kamisato Ayaka
Kamisato Ayato
Kaedahara Kazuha
Sayu
Thoma
Raiden Shogun
Yae Miko
Arataki Itto
Gorou
Shikanoin Heizou

Meowywitch
Jan 14, 2010

Fight for all that is beautiful in the world

Is Sarah chopped liver???

Traveller
Jan 6, 2012

WHIM AND FOPPERY

I kinda set Genshin aside for now but I think you should know that Wanderer in the Spanish localization was rendered as Trotamundos.

You know. Globetrotter.

Tuxedo Catfish
Mar 17, 2007

You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.

Traveller posted:

I kinda set Genshin aside for now but I think you should know that Wanderer in the Spanish localization was rendered as Trotamundos.

You know. Globetrotter.

THE ARROGATION OF B-BALLERS ENDS NOW

Meowywitch
Jan 14, 2010

Fight for all that is beautiful in the world



Oh hey, nice. Standard Wish banner doing good work

Now the only 4*s I'm missing are Goro, Sarah, Layla, and Sucrose

Kale
May 14, 2010

https://genshin.global/product/statue-excellency-raiden-shogun/

Good news The Raiden Shogun figurine is starting to become available on English sites with overseas shipping and USD pricing
Bad News: Its marked up about 30 bucks.

Nyaawn posted:

Is Sarah chopped liver???

They seem to have dictated that she and Itto may never cross paths in game. Also that Yae Miko must be present in every Inazuma event and just for the heck of it random other ones. I feel like shes now gotten the most screen time of any Inazuma character

Kale fucked around with this message at 20:37 on Nov 22, 2022

Xun
Apr 25, 2010

Kale posted:

https://genshin.global/product/statue-excellency-raiden-shogun/

Good news The Raiden Shogun figurine is starting to become available on English sites with overseas shipping and USD pricing
Bad News: Its marked up about 30 bucks.

They seem to have dictated that she and Itto may never cross paths in game. Also that Yae Miko must be present in every Inazuma event and just for the heck of it random other ones. I feel like shes now gotten the most screen time of any Inazuma character

kazzuuhaaa :argh:

Zenostein
Aug 16, 2008

:h::h::h:Alhamdulillah-chan:h::h::h:

Xun posted:

kazzuuhaaa :argh:

RPATDO_LAMD
Mar 22, 2013

🐘🪠🍆
That's not an official Genshin shop or anything, just a reseller who is buying them in China and reselling them overseas at a markup.
If you want to "do it yourself", there are independent companies that offer proxy-purchase or forwarding services so foreigners can buy stuff that's only sold locally in China or Japan, a lot of meganerds who collect anime merch or figures etc use them. (I never have myself though.)

For China most seem to be "taobao agents" who specifically do this for taobao.com but some offer parcel forwarding service as well, for example just from a quick search superbuy.com will forward a 1kg parcel to the USA in ~13 days for about $17. The idea is that you set up your account with the forwarder, they give you a warehouse address, and then you order whatever you want (raiden statue in this case) and give the forwarder's warehouse as the shipping address. So MHY ships it to the forwarder and the forwarder ships it to you.

Meowywitch
Jan 14, 2010

Fight for all that is beautiful in the world

btw i've been leveling / playing shinobu and she does, in fact, rule. electric users stay winning

sushibandit
Feb 12, 2009

I'd just finished a semi-decent health-based artifact set for her before the Sumeru drop...
Now I have to farm EM-mainstat TF or GD that also has good crit subs so I don't have to waste time and effort switching between crit/em sets for hyperbloom vs aggravate teams!? Goddammit.

Trying to get anything near "good" artifact main/sub combo is the most fun-destroying aspect of the game by far.

MadHat
Mar 31, 2011

sushibandit posted:

I'd just finished a semi-decent health-based artifact set for her before the Sumeru drop...
Now I have to farm EM-mainstat TF or GD that also has good crit subs so I don't have to waste time and effort switching between crit/em sets for hyperbloom vs aggravate teams!? Goddammit.

Trying to get anything near "good" artifact main/sub combo is the most fun-destroying aspect of the game by far.

The good news is for those who care about EM main stat the substats are not that important so you can get like 2 stats you want and call it a a day.

The bad news is EM main stat is one of [maybe the most] rare thing to get much less good substats if any kind.

Incoherence
May 22, 2004

POYO AND TEAR
Did the Nahida story quest line last night, and people seem surprisingly okay with her just randomly showing up in town: yes, they're surprised that an archon would grant them an audience, but not more than that. You'd think that if your god hadn't shown up in person for 500 years and then suddenly reappeared (and turned off the internet in the process), it'd take people some time to adjust. (Even accounting for the changed timeline where Lesser Lord Kusanali has been the archon all along and just "gave up her power" 500 years ago instead of dying and being replaced.)

Tree Reformat
Apr 2, 2022

by Fluffdaddy

Nyaawn posted:

btw i've been leveling / playing shinobu and she does, in fact, rule. electric users stay winning

It's funny that she went from "what is the purpose of this character kit" to now "only" excelling in one very specific niche role... but that role is so on-meta right now and she's so good at that one thing that it was enough to shoot her up tier lists basically overnight.

now tell us the purpose of dori, mihoyo other than "the scammer character tricked you into whaling for her useless rear end"

Tuxedo Catfish
Mar 17, 2007

You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.
shinobu fills the SSS+ meta role of being Arataki Itto's straight man

Captain France
Aug 3, 2013

Tree Reformat posted:

It's funny that she went from "what is the purpose of this character kit" to now "only" excelling in one very specific niche role... but that role is so on-meta right now and she's so good at that one thing that it was enough to shoot her up tier lists basically overnight.

now tell us the purpose of dori, mihoyo other than "the scammer character tricked you into whaling for her useless rear end"

Having put her on my Sucrose/Fischl/Nahida team as the only healer I have who doesn't also take away too much electro for Fischl to keep up and doesn't inflict the worst element to be inflicted with on me, I think her main purpose is to be a worse Shinobu for people like me who keep missing Shinobu.

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Mailer
Nov 4, 2009

Have you accepted The Void as your lord and savior?

sushibandit posted:

Now I have to farm EM-mainstat TF or GD that also has good crit subs so I don't have to waste time and effort switching between crit/em sets for hyperbloom vs aggravate teams!? Goddammit.

The upshot, if you're building Nahida hyperbloom, is that you can farm the GD set while also farming what you need for Nahida. Spending all my non-weekly-bosses resin on that domain since 3.0 came out paid out dividends with a 1023 EM Raiden. :v:

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