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Dick Trauma posted:https://twitter.com/ehananoki/status/1594768925807775744?s=20&t=aSu4tRX27qE5FQAwcEphWQ Most people I've been following are just there until something else stabilizes, waiting to see where they're friends are going, or looking forward to the end. Everyone whose not a chud has basically given up on the site.
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Nov 21, 2022 20:46
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Yeah, there are basically two outcomes at this point: -Musk succeeds in filling twitter with all the terrible people and content it's spent the last couple of years getting rid of. Everyone who isn't terrible leaves. All the terrible people yell at each other for a while, then realize there are no longer any libs to own and also leave. Throw it on the pile with the right-wing social medias mentioned upthread. -Twitter suffers a catastrophic technical failure that goes unaddressed for a long time (days, weeks). Everyone migrates elsewhere. If the problem is ever fixed, they don't come back. Twitter is a wasteland where naught is heard but the howling of restless spirits Any process that leads to Twitter returning to being a healthy, popular social site involves getting it out of Musk's hands, which can't happen without his cooperation, which he won't give
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Nov 21, 2022 20:47
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haveblue posted:Yeah, there are basically two outcomes at this point: The first is particularly salient because Twitter cost Elon $44 billion dollars plus $1 billion every year and Truth Social, Gab, Parler, etc cost a fraction of that. Twitter collapsing under the weight of unrelenting chudiness is gonna be felt entirely because its so expensive to buy and maintain.
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Nov 21, 2022 21:12
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Google+ really should have played the long game.
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Nov 22, 2022 01:36
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haveblue posted:Yeah, there are basically two outcomes at this point: haveblue posted:-Twitter suffers a catastrophic technical failure that goes unaddressed for a long time (days, weeks). Everyone migrates elsewhere. If the problem is ever fixed, they don't come back. Twitter is a wasteland where naught is heard but the howling of restless spirits haveblue posted:Any process that leads to Twitter returning to being a healthy, popular social site involves getting it out of Musk's hands, which can't happen without his cooperation, which he won't give
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Nov 22, 2022 02:32
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I am also less optimistic about Twitter's inevitable death. Unlike the right-wing spin-offs, it already has an established base of users, and for all the anecdotes we hear about people leaving for other sites, I have to imagine that at least ten times as many more people won't bother to change their lifestyle even slightly. The money thing is an issue, theoretically, but Musk really wanted to get rid of the debt he just declares bankruptcy for the company, and it's not his problem anymore. I'm not a bankruptcy lawyer, but I cannot imagine a world without a billion loopholes for him to crawl out through.
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Nov 22, 2022 02:45
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Clarste posted:The money thing is an issue, theoretically, but Musk really wanted to get rid of the debt he just declares bankruptcy for the company, and it's not his problem anymore. I'm not a bankruptcy lawyer, but I cannot imagine a world without a billion loopholes for him to crawl out through. Yeah the fact that the bank that owns the loan is trying to offload it by any means necessary should tell you that they don’t expect a repayment at all. https://www.marketplace.org/2022/11/11/banks-that-helped-finance-musks-twitter-purchase-field-low-bids-for-debt/
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Nov 22, 2022 03:09
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Dick Trauma posted:
There is nothing to win. Delete your account. Don't participate in it. You wouldn't sign up for Truth Social and participate in that, so why participate in Twitter?
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Nov 22, 2022 03:22
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Mzbundifund posted:Yeah the fact that the bank that owns the loan is trying to offload it by any means necessary should tell you that they don’t expect a repayment at all. What I'm wondering is why the bank gave him the loan in the first place.
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Nov 22, 2022 03:24
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:What I'm wondering is why the bank gave him the loan in the first place. He is (was?) the richest man on earth. Someone was going to bite. Not sure how they thought Twitter was going to pay 1 billion dollars in interest a year, but I’m no finance guy.
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Nov 22, 2022 04:04
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because they thought the puppet was going to be easy to control.
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Nov 22, 2022 04:07
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:What I'm wondering is why the bank gave him the loan in the first place. Our world is run by greedy morons.
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Nov 22, 2022 04:27
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At this point I'm legitimately wondering if Twitter's financial situation kills it before a grievous technical mishap does. The ad sale situation has to be dire; his opening gambit was to issue a direct threat to his advertisers, and poo poo has only devolved from there.
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Nov 22, 2022 04:39
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There is a desperation for creativity and technological advancement, but when there is none we seem to be glad to accept scams in their place. Anything to justify the facade of infinite growth in late stage capitalism I suppose. See: the entirety of the crypto craze and the majority of Musk's offerings.
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Nov 22, 2022 04:46
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Mercury_Storm posted:There is a desperation for creativity and technological advancement, but when there is none we seem to be glad to accept scams in their place. Anything to justify the facade of infinite growth in late stage capitalism I suppose. See: the entirety of the crypto craze and the majority of Musk's offerings. Oh, it's even worse than that: https://twitter.com/JoshuaPHilll/status/1594891229686366208?t=JaHzXgb_FYkn_rlqD8L2QA&s=19 https://twitter.com/JoshuaPHilll/status/1594889523095281674?t=XEDlTR99eNIBEBlPkFt0SQ&s=19 Tesla's in a tailspin because of what Musk is doing at Twitter, causing Musk to make even more crazier decisions at Twitter, which drive the price of Tesla stock down even further, which cause Musk to make even crazier decisions at Twitter...
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Nov 22, 2022 08:18
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I've gotten caught up in the potential sudden death of Twitter (gently caress you, I love Twitter), but until Twitter just becomes utterly unusable or just unbearable, inertia is going to keep people from giving up on it. I mean, I can kick and scream and yell to try as hard as I can to peel off people I know from Facebook to anything else, but they're not at all interested enough to migrate to another platform, despite their similar feelings toward Facebook.
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Nov 22, 2022 08:26
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Network effects are a hell of a drug. I do wish there was something like early Facebook that was focused on just communication with friends and family, instead of virality. No brands or influencers, no resharing other people's posts, links to news articles and the like would be deemphasized in your news feed in favor of emphasizing your own words.
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Nov 22, 2022 08:52
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nine-gear crow posted:Oh, it's even worse than that: Also crypto is crashing and Tesla made more money off crypto than it did cars
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Nov 22, 2022 08:56
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Cicero posted:Network effects are a hell of a drug. That's what Facebook seemed good for. Important conversations, density of good information, humor or good taste? Lol no. But you could keep in touch with friends and family around the world, and get info on local news and events. That's why I kept it for as long as I did anyway. Seeing people's thoughts and reactions regarding covid, trump, propaganda, or climate was too much though. The same disinformation or empty hot takes popping up over and over, you attempt to address all of them but like a medic doing triage in a room full of victims you can only do so much. And your attempts to refute, inform, or discuss are met with low effort trolling, a restatement of the original statement, or just completely ignored. Facebook became a lens through which many of the people I'd have to interact with were total fools, and I was the bitter smartest man in the room. Whether or not that's true ( 😉 ) I couldn't handle it and feel much better not engaging in it. Anyway it's obvious we need the EMP from the end of Escape from LA. The more things change...
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Nov 22, 2022 13:37
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Every day that goes by I'm more sure that Elon's fanatically loyal programmers are going to keep the engine running, and Twitter is going to be a abandoned to the alt-right. I've already removed the app from my home screen and will probably delete my account, provided Elon hasn't broken the delete account function. It's actually made my days better because I'm not wasting time on there and doomscrolling when some inevitable disaster happens.
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Nov 22, 2022 13:38
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Elon's recent outburst at Trent Reznor leaving Twitter is a repeat of his outburst at advertisers , but even more relevant to Twitter's continued existing. Celebs on Twitter was a major reason the forum became popular and if they're leaving in droves because of Trump and the toxicity means that the average user can't follow or interact with them. At least on Twitter, because you can still go in Instagram and follow them.
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Nov 22, 2022 14:05
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Yeah, while I don’t think it’s exactly wrong to say people visit twitter to get angry online, that’s not the whole picture. People also visit to read tweets from famous people whose opinions, experiences, or works they care about, and these are the people the ads are trying to reach, not the argumentative ones. You empty their timelines of Compelling Content by driving off all the non-awful celebrities, engagement drops
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Nov 22, 2022 14:11
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haveblue posted:Yeah, while I don’t think it’s exactly wrong to say people visit twitter to get angry online, that’s not the whole picture. People also visit to read tweets from famous people whose opinions, experiences, or works they care about, and these are the people the ads are trying to reach, not the argumentative ones Yeah. It's possible, even probable that Twitter limps on and is replaced by some other service like Mastodon and it just ends up being a chud haven that harasses the few decent people not bigoted to the point of belligerent douche-baggery that remain. The way Elon is embracing the most bigoted assholes to ever gently caress up the country however means that it's going to repel a lot of otherwise good people, including celebrities, professionals, influencers that aren't just in it for the attention, etc, etc. That'll do even more to turn it into a ghost town. Kind of like facebook, but with an insecure narcissist fintech grifter running things and deflecting criticism using his botnet (dude has like a 70% bot following to manufacture consent last I checked) to pad his salty bruised ego after his wife left him for a trans woman and his daughter came out as trans. Only it'll probably be without the barest/functionally nearly non-existent safeguards that Facebook pretends to put in place to curb hate speech. If it sticks around past that it'll probably spiral further as he rips the mask off and reveals that he is an anti-democracy pro-lgbt genocide turbo CHUD and begins actively suppressing dissenters to those types, since he's shown a pretty clear pattern of lacking self control and intimated a preference for that in the past. Which will slowly but surely drive even more people off over time. Either way, I don't see it being successful like that. Decent people don't want to deal with bigots, homophobes, transphobes, or anti democratic fascists that hate other people for what they were born as. Elon's courting them hard, and those types cannot ever be trusted to co-exist peacefully with decent people without a gently caress ton of gaslighting and abuse coming out. The real danger is in it pushing misinformation during elections and during crises if it stays in the mainstream or even at the fringes of those decent people's awareness. Since Elon is exactly the sort of white collar crook to let that happen if he thinks it'll benefit him or hurt the groups of people he hates. Archonex fucked around with this message at 14:32 on Nov 22, 2022 |
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Nov 22, 2022 14:15
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I'm in Japan, and oddly enough Twitter has IMPROVED a bit here. The Japanese content curators were fired in Musk's purge and Japanese Twitter has become a lot less political and toxic. There have been several articles about it. The Japanese Twitter staff were obviously steering content toward more political (and pro-LDP, the right wing ruler party) for years. But I still get a taste of the hellworld as all the US people are follow discuss it, wait for the end, and for some reason Musk tweets and #TSLA stock tweets from the fanboys hoping to ride Musk's coattails and become rich from him somehow still make it onto my feed...
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Nov 22, 2022 14:33
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Tuxedo Gin posted:I'm in Japan, and oddly enough Twitter has IMPROVED a bit here. The Japanese content curators were fired in Musk's purge and Japanese Twitter has become a lot less political and toxic. There have been several articles about it. The Japanese Twitter staff were obviously steering content toward more political (and pro-LDP, the right wing ruler party) for years. But I still get a taste of the hellworld as all the US people are follow discuss it, wait for the end, and for some reason Musk tweets and #TSLA stock tweets from the fanboys hoping to ride Musk's coattails and become rich from him somehow still make it onto my feed... Heh, American foreign policy finally comes to the private sector; firing everyone who isn't from there and wondering why all their foreign influence is gone.
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Nov 22, 2022 14:38
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:What I'm wondering is why the bank gave him the loan in the first place. He told investors that he would double Twitter's userbase and more than double their revenue by 2025, and then double them both again by 2028. His pitch deck to investors claimed that by 2028, Twitter would have 931 million users and would be making $10b/yr from subscriptions, $12b/yr from advertising, and $1.3b/yr from payment processing. For reference, last year, Twitter had 217 million users last year and made $5 billion total revenue.
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Nov 22, 2022 19:07
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The banks were planning to sell on the debt to third parties too. They weren't planning on holding it long term. They're stuck with it now as the assets seem to be not worth as much as the bank paid for them at this point.
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Nov 22, 2022 19:12
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Star Man posted:I've gotten caught up in the potential sudden death of Twitter (gently caress you, I love Twitter), but until Twitter just becomes utterly unusable or just unbearable, inertia is going to keep people from giving up on it. I mean look at us here. These forums basically replaced the entire internet for me in 2001, I have no interest in trying to find another online community. Reddit is very much not something I like. Discord gives me anxiety and is poo poo for archiving stuff. And even though I literally just created a new facebook account a few weeks ago because I was catching way too many auto bans for leftist and queer content, that's the way I socialize. Knowing that I would lose those support networks is what's going to keep me around on facebook until it finally dies, because all the other social media platforms just don't hit the same sweet spot for me. Basically, I understand why you folks won't leave twitter until it explodes, even if I personally, do not value it.
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Nov 22, 2022 19:46
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Artonos posted:The banks were planning to sell on the debt to third parties too. They weren't planning on holding it long term. Yes, what was supposed to happen was that the debt was packaged up, labeled as the debt of a stable, growing company whose tiller a steady hand is about to grasp, and put back on the market, where smaller and less risk-averse firms would buy it. Then the Delaware chancery court clown parade ended way ahead of schedule and Elon seized the company overnight and managed to make multiple horrible decisions far faster than anyone would have thought possible. The debt turned radioactive before the process completed and now nobody is so risk-tolerant as to make buying it a good idea. haveblue fucked around with this message at 19:52 on Nov 22, 2022 |
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Nov 22, 2022 19:47
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Twitter’s already not paying its bills https://twitter.com/mikeisaac/status/1595127540397449217?s=46&t=LmUy5P3_qisJme1_YNcSxA
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Nov 22, 2022 19:56
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FlamingLiberal posted:Twitter’s already not paying its bills
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Nov 22, 2022 20:04
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kliras posted:only the best and most advertiser friendly Didn't this dickbag "convert to Islam" recently just to be obviously heavy on the haram
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Nov 22, 2022 20:07
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That Italian Guy posted:Not to detract from the clowncar that Twitter is atm, but a lot of tech companies are cutting costs right now. Hiring/travel freeze and real estate downsizing is something a lot of business (including Google, Facebook, etc) are currently undergoing. Downsizing is not the same thing as not paying your bills Not paying your bills is generally a huge warning sign that the business is going insolvent, or some other bad poo poo.
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Nov 22, 2022 20:07
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He’s attempting to bully companies like Amazon and Oracle into charging him less https://twitter.com/ryanlcooper/status/1595129268883054593?s=46&t=LmUy5P3_qisJme1_YNcSxA
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Nov 22, 2022 20:34
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So if Musk bought twitter on a loan is it possible for banks to repo it when he doesn't pay them back?
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Nov 22, 2022 20:54
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haveblue posted:Yeah, while I don’t think it’s exactly wrong to say people visit twitter to get angry online, that’s not the whole picture. People also visit to read tweets from famous people whose opinions, experiences, or works they care about, and these are the people the ads are trying to reach, not the argumentative ones. You empty their timelines of Compelling Content by driving off all the non-awful celebrities, engagement drops The problem, is that social media companies, having bought into the horrible mistake that is the attention economy (along with every other media at this point, to be fair), will always be motivated to cultivate the loudest, angriest, stupidest, most sensational, controversial poo poo. The people engaging in that may be a minority of users, but they are always the fuel that keeps the entire edifice of social media cranking along. Without them, social media companies can't exploit primal human flaws in perception to sell poo poo. That's capitalism! if something is profitable in the short term, and no one is stopping them from doing it, corporations will do it because they are explicitly designed from the ground up to be profitable, not moral. Look at what Musk is doing right now. It could not be more obvious. He's dumping all the most controversial underpants stains of humanity back into the system to drive engagement up. I have no doubt it's going to work in the short term, just like dumping raw toxic waste into the love canal saves money for DuPont. The reckoning will definitely come later, but not before everyone drinking the water suffers from social media brain cancer, including the people innocently wandering on the find recipes or catch up with the news. That's the way we need to look at it. Social media is intentionally algorithmically polluting the mental environment of entire civilizations for profit. It's already wildly out of control, and it needs to end.
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Nov 22, 2022 21:29
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FlamingLiberal posted:He’s attempting to bully companies like Amazon and Oracle into charging him less Oh my god this is ants yelling at thunderclouds.
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Nov 22, 2022 22:24
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:So if Musk bought twitter on a loan is it possible for banks to repo it when he doesn't pay them back? In normyworld that is what happens, but Elon exists under a different set of rules.
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Nov 22, 2022 22:24
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Twitter was not the collateral for the loans used to buy it in the first place, they don't let even Elon Musk do that. The collateral was some of his other assets, most likely Tesla stock.
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Nov 22, 2022 22:29
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haveblue posted:Twitter was not the collateral for the loans used to buy it in the first place, they don't let even Elon Musk do that. The collateral was some of his other assets, most likely Tesla stock. And that's the reason why he's been losing his loving mind, because Tesla's stock keeps dropping and with it, his ability to actually pay off the giant napkin IOU he bought Twitter with in the first place.
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Nov 22, 2022 23:02
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