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pencilhands posted:Everyone assumedly saw this post, scrolled down, and decided discussing 2 year old takes on why the Democratic Party sucks for the 8000th time was more current events worthy. Not a single other person cared enough to even mention it in passing. Caring about something is not synonymous with having something interesting to say about it.
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Nov 23, 2022 17:55
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People have just accepted that mass shootings happen, because the actual explanations for why people are so constantly unhappy and freaked out is bad for the money. It’s capitalism, and you can’t change it, because there’s more money in letting these things happen than there is in nationalized health care and communities which know and care about each other, rather than absorbing messages about how you shouldn’t trust your neighbors. The freak out over a lady making chili for her neighbors and mass shootings both originate from the same central problem of atomized, individual capitalist subjectivity making us unable to fix anything.
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Nov 23, 2022 17:55
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If you want empty platitudes and people copy-pasting their stance on gun control and the cause of violence for the 174th time, you can get that on Facebook. I don't know what value there is or what can be learned about discussing a mass shooting in depth that doesn't have any details which are particularly novel. At least Club Q was a clear-cut LGTB mass murder hate crime and that is not (yet) routine, but this shooting in Virginia?
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Nov 23, 2022 17:57
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What is there to say about yet another senseless mass murder with a gun in America? Nothing ever changes. Elected officials will never do anything about gun violence that isn't 'tough on crime' anti-poor anti-minority policy. It's always a 'lone wolf', so nothing can be done to prevent this.
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Nov 23, 2022 18:05
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CNN got a small statement from the DoD about Turkey accidentally droning Americans. All they have confirmed is that nobody died, it was a mix of civilians and members of the military in the area that was bombed, it was on the Turkey and Syrian border, and that it happened last night. Still don't see any full articles yet. Seems like it might have been a huge surprise and some property damage, but no human injuries. https://twitter.com/NatashaBertrand/status/1595447269431590919
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Nov 23, 2022 18:06
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It’s a workplace shooting of the kind that used to be common before columbine perfected school shootings into a science. In this era it is a bit of a novelty as a throwback to when mass murder was about foregrounding the misery and hopelessness of the atomized, anomic worker who can’t imagine any escape other than spectacular violence they think of as some mind of vague revenge. Since columbine, it’s really been all about reactionary scumfucks externalizing their entitlement into gestures they hope will terrorize society. I guess the post-2015 spate of reactionary scumfucks literally acting out the orders of mass media to kill gays and immigrants is a third kind.
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Nov 23, 2022 18:12
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Taylor Swift truly is the Shadow President with power beyond imagining. Ticket Master slighted her and now she has sicced the DOJ and Congress on them. That is only half a joke. The DOJ had been planning to file an anti-trust suit for months, but this hearing really is only happening because of T-Swizzle and the Swifties. Pretty funny that Ticket Master's official response is "we're actually really glad about this! We want to get to the bottom of who is doing this and we have some shocking information about who is involved!" quote:"The Eras on sale made one thing clear: Taylor Swift is an unstoppable force and continues to set records,” Ticketmaster wrote in its explanation. “We strive to make ticket buying as easy as possible for fans, but that hasn’t been the case for many people trying to buy tickets for the Eras Tour. We want to share some information to help explain what happened.” https://twitter.com/Variety/status/1595443313661747200 quote:In the wake of the major problems surrounding Ticketmaster’s management of Taylor Swift tour ticket sales last week, a U.S. Senate antitrust panel will hold a hearing on the lack of competition in the industry, Senators Amy Klobuchar (D-MN) and Mike Lee (R-UT) announced Tuesday. The hearing comes after reports of major service failures and delays on Ticketmaster’s website that left fans unable to purchase concert tickets.
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Nov 23, 2022 18:15
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Didn't see this discussed yesterday, but further administrative action: https://twitter.com/chopracfpb/status/1595090573714935811 Calling this out in particular because the divided legislature is only going to increase the importance of proactive and substantive actions from the various appendages of the executive branch. Going back to Perez and overtime classification at Labor in the waning days of the Obama admin, more robust rulemaking and expansive interpretations of scope and authority has been becoming more common. It'll be essential this continue to accelerate over the next few years. The Executive Action Tracker from The American Prospect grew out of their day one agenda project and is still the best, most comprehensive resource I've seen on the things the Biden administration can (arguably) do without congress... if anyone would like to better understand that potential universe as we continue careening toward gridlock. I disagree with some of the assessments on if the proposed actions are within the administration's authority, but I've not found any that are objectively wrong.
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Nov 23, 2022 18:23
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I AM GRANDO posted:It’s a workplace shooting of the kind that used to be common before columbine perfected school shootings into a science. In this era it is a bit of a novelty as a throwback to when mass murder was about foregrounding the misery and hopelessness of the atomized, anomic worker who can’t imagine any escape other than spectacular violence they think of as some mind of vague revenge. Since columbine, it’s really been all about reactionary scumfucks externalizing their entitlement into gestures they hope will terrorize society. I guess the post-2015 spate of reactionary scumfucks literally acting out the orders of mass media to kill gays and immigrants is a third kind. Back in the day, the first type used to be referred to as "Going Postal".
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Nov 23, 2022 18:42
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Rigel posted:If you want empty platitudes and people copy-pasting their stance on gun control and the cause of violence for the 174th time, you can get that on Facebook. To be fair, it's important to not get numb to these things. We need people to care if things are going to change.
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Nov 23, 2022 18:48
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Futility, the idea that change is impossible or harm is inevitable, is one of the core rhetorical frameworks leveraged by groups like the NRA that seek to ruin the discussion of reform. However, discussion of gun control and legal reform is not the same thing as demanding fixation on the details of each individual shooting. Demanding that discussion, or declaring that its absence "proves" nothing will change, has the same effect on the framing of the issue that the industry prefers.
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Nov 23, 2022 18:51
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Brave New World posted:Back in the day, the first type used to be referred to as "Going Postal". And it's not like they ever went away or like school shootings didn't already exist. But boy oh boy did Columbine change media engagement with mass shootings thanks in part to the rise of the 24 hour news era. Which also matters given copycat effects on mass shootings in general.
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Nov 23, 2022 18:52
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I’d say it’s significant but predictable that right wing influencers have made the turn to cheering these on. A liberal state has no meaningful way to challenge free speech, with enough money for lawyers to advise, that constantly incites violence but in a non-actionable way. It has to feel very exciting to be a Tim Pool or Matt Walsh fan right now, knowing how neutered anyone who would try to stop you is, and the deep, abiding approval for this tendency within American law enforcement and governmental structures. A gun control law will never stop this, could never, within the context of the society you live in. What the system does is it’s intent, and until you can say that intent and refuse the system that produces this result, you won’t be stopping anything. Powerlessness can be expressed by despair or ever more desperate parsing of liberal ideas of a rule of law that doesn’t actually exist, but neither form produces actual change.
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Nov 23, 2022 19:20
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selec posted:I’d say it’s significant but predictable that right wing influencers have made the turn to cheering these on. A liberal state has no meaningful way to challenge free speech, with enough money for lawyers to advise, that constantly incites violence but in a non-actionable way. It has to feel very exciting to be a Tim Pool or Matt Walsh fan right now, knowing how neutered anyone who would try to stop you is, and the deep, abiding approval for this tendency within American law enforcement and governmental structures.  What proof do you have of this claim?
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Nov 23, 2022 19:28
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Kalit posted:
well, we can point to the extent of gun control laws that a democratic trifecta was willing to pass, in an environment that they were accountable to noone but themselves, in the last year. in a once-a-decade instance of total democratic control of the government, you saw how far they were willing to go with gun control. its impact on gun violence could charitably be described as "laughable." (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 23, 2022 19:32
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I don't post about it much, because gun control is a famously unproductive topic online, but the endless stream of mass shootings and gun violence has utterly convinced me that the only way to stop the violence is to retake the Supreme Court, overturn Heller, and re-interpret the 2nd amendment in a way that allows us to regulate guns nearly out of existence. Day-to-day problems are made deadly when the presence of a gun intersects with people's impulsiveness, and until guns are effectively banned, we will continue to see road rage, workplace grievances, and depression escalate into murder, slaughter, and suicide. The hopelessness of the situation is one of the few things that have my wife and I actually discussing leaving the country. We want to have kids soon, and we would rather live somewhere where schools don't need to teach them about the realistic possibility that they may be slaughtered on any given day of the week. We'd be leaving our families behind, but this issue might make it worth it.
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Nov 23, 2022 19:36
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:well, we can point to the extent of gun control laws that a democratic trifecta was willing to pass, in an environment that they were accountable to noone but themselves, in the last year. That isn’t what the claim I had bolded says
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Nov 23, 2022 19:36
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:well, we can point to the extent of gun control laws that a democratic trifecta was willing to pass, in an environment that they were accountable to noone but themselves, in the last year. Oh neat i was worried I missed this discussion from a couple of pages ago but here it is again.
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Nov 23, 2022 19:38
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Does anyone have the email address of the Democratic trifecta? It should really be answering these questions itself
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Nov 23, 2022 19:40
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Kalit posted:
JFC, really? I understand that being a complete and utter dumbfuck contrarian is your thing, but goddamn. These assholes already think they're above the law, or that they're Chaotic Good superheroes on a mission from God to slay the devilish hordes of his enemies by ignoring an unjust law written by the forces of evil in order to stop good men from doing anything. If any sense of decency or morality were in their playbook, we wouldn't be having this conversation for the umpteenth time while they continue to be emboldened to kill more queer people. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 23, 2022 19:40
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Kalit posted:That isn’t what the claim I had bolded says in the context of the society you live in, a democratic party permitted to do whatever it wishes to address the issues it assures its voters it cares about, really, honestly, truly, passed gun control legislation. limited by nothing but their own will. to call that legislation a damp fart would be too kind. a damp fart at least has some substance to it. you will not, and can not, see a gun control law with meaningful impact, so long as that is the best ostensibly pro-gun control legislators are willing to do.
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Nov 23, 2022 19:43
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:in the context of the society you live in, a democratic party permitted to do whatever it wishes to address the issues it assures its voters it cares about, really, honestly, truly, passed gun control legislation. limited by nothing but their own will. Our society can and will vote in different politicians. We are not constrained by who’s currently in office (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 23, 2022 19:50
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Kalit posted:Our society can and will vote in different politicians. What proof do you have of this claim? (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 23, 2022 19:52
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Flying-PCP posted:What proof do you have of this claim? We have elections every 2 years where different federal politicians are elected….?
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Nov 23, 2022 19:55
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stop arguing and look at this vague bullshit our Governor shat out. Couldn't bring himself to use the word "shooting" or even "killing" or "deaths" or "victims". Coward. https://twitter.com/GovernorVA/status/1595375949759262720
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Nov 23, 2022 20:10
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VikingofRock posted:I don't post about it much, because gun control is a famously unproductive topic online, but the endless stream of mass shootings and gun violence has utterly convinced me that the only way to stop the violence is to retake the Supreme Court, overturn Heller, and re-interpret the 2nd amendment in a way that allows us to regulate guns nearly out of existence. Day-to-day problems are made deadly when the presence of a gun intersects with people's impulsiveness, and until guns are effectively banned, we will continue to see road rage, workplace grievances, and depression escalate into murder, slaughter, and suicide. While I agree with your general sentiments, even if you could get through the bolded steps above - and that's an if the size of the Empire State Building, mind you - what are you going to do about all of the guns currently in existence/circulation in the US? We already have almost as many guns as citizens here, and even if you could cut off the flow entirely tomorrow - no more guns being made or sold to citizens, no more military-grade weapons being handed off to police departments, etc. - there's still enough already existing weapons out there in people's hands to keep the current mass shooting status quo running for basically forever.
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Nov 23, 2022 20:13
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It was an unpleasant day at my old work when I realized that the emails that would go out whenever someone threatened to shoot us all or bomb us or whatever were only reserved for the threats that were deemed "credible". Not all the threats. Just the ones that might have legs. My neighborhood has had a significant uptick in gun violence, at least anecdotally. I can't remember the last week where I didn't read about at least one in my area. Living in this country is needlessly stressful.
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Nov 23, 2022 20:17
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The state isn’t equipped to deal with this issue because ultimately the cops agree and slow-walk efforts to protect minority groups. Abolish the police. https://twitter.com/dgisserious/status/1595447152125399045?s=46&t=dy0WgvoTwf0njw4ZP39IBQ (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 23, 2022 20:30
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Class3KillStorm posted:While I agree with your general sentiments, even if you could get through the bolded steps above - and that's an if the size of the Empire State Building, mind you - what are you going to do about all of the guns currently in existence/circulation in the US? We already have almost as many guns as citizens here, and even if you could cut off the flow entirely tomorrow - no more guns being made or sold to citizens, no more military-grade weapons being handed off to police departments, etc. - there's still enough already existing weapons out there in people's hands to keep the current mass shooting status quo running for basically forever. In my experience, most gun owners are just regular people who bought a gun for self defense. I think if the policy was "get this restrictive license for your guns, based on demonstrating actual need, and subject to frequent inspection and recertification; or just participate in this otherwise-mandatory buyback program", then the vast majority of gun owners would choose the buyback program. Presumably, this would be coupled with tight restrictions on the manufacturing of guns, which would cut down on the number of guns being manufactured just to sell to the government. I'm sure some people would choose to hide their guns or make stand-offs with the government, but I think their number is relatively small to begin with and would go away after a few decades of attrition. But yeah, as I said, to even begin this we need an unprecedented shift in the dynamics of US politics, and the clean-up will take decades. That's why I feel so utterly hopeless now.
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Nov 23, 2022 20:40
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Class3KillStorm posted:While I agree with your general sentiments, even if you could get through the bolded steps above - and that's an if the size of the Empire State Building, mind you - what are you going to do about all of the guns currently in existence/circulation in the US? We already have almost as many guns as citizens here, and even if you could cut off the flow entirely tomorrow - no more guns being made or sold to citizens, no more military-grade weapons being handed off to police departments, etc. - there's still enough already existing weapons out there in people's hands to keep the current mass shooting status quo running for basically forever. That doesn’t make the problem insurmountable. You wait, maybe do generous buyback programs to get them away from the economically desperate. Make a kinder world with a robust safety net that makes people less afraid. Speak honestly about how deranged and stupid the average gun owner is and publicize all the cases of gun people accidentally killing their kids, or of their kids accidentally killing themselves. Gun people can’t be reached, but culture can change and their kids will be different. Smoking used to be commonplace in the US, but now it’s despised. I see no reason gun ownership couldn’t follow the same trajectory. Cigarette companies had a stranglehold on law and politics in the US just like the nra and gun manufacturers do now. You can’t make a problem go away entirely, but that’s no excuse to do nothing.
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Nov 23, 2022 20:45
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I AM GRANDO posted:Smoking used to be commonplace in the US, but now it’s despised. I see no reason gun ownership couldn’t follow the same trajectory. Cigarette companies had a stranglehold on law and politics in the US just like the nra and gun manufacturers do now. You can’t make a problem go away entirely, but that’s no excuse to do nothing. It stands to reason that at least part of the solution is to pressure more private spaces to ban guns, if the country at large won't. I mean, obviously for poo poo like school shootings, it's already the case that they are banned, but it certainly couldn't make matters any worse. At this point, I would be inclined to say any progress at all on the issue, even if small and symbolic, would be better than the "literally nothing forever" we are currently facing.
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Nov 23, 2022 20:55
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It's hard to convey how rabid the core of Rightwing gun owners are about their guns, I think the only thing they love even more is racism. Still, there's a ton of R voters that aren't gun owners and don't really care that much so it kind of feels like the insane pro-gun crowd could potentially go the same way as the Religious Right if the winds shifted. When the video game industry was the target of public backlash for their graphic content back in the 90's, they swiftly introduced self-regulation at which point people largely left them alone. A technologically sophisticated enough buyer screening + gun tracking/monitoring system could conceivably satisfy all parties. But gun owners stupidly don't want anything they see as an infringement. And unlike other government legislation that is ineffective or not up to the task it's implemented for, it's pretty obvious that gun laws aren't working if you have a mass shooting every other day. It's always been [un]surprising how tactlessly self-centered the gun industry/gun owners are when every time their's a mass shooting their first response is "I wonder how this is going to impede my rights." You'd think they'd be proactive about resolving this issue on their own terms so that they can ensure they end up with favorable terms. But it would seem the public pressure just isn't there. Which is really kind of amazing in this day and age. If a classroom full of 3rd graders getting Mozambique'd isn't enough to start a nation wide Witch Hunt of rabid parents and create a level of public shaming of gun owners tantamount to registered sex offenders then the real question becomes, what is it really going to take? The answer, by now, should of course be obvious. Just tell people that guns are making their kids feel bad about America's history of racism. -Blackadder- fucked around with this message at 21:21 on Nov 23, 2022 |
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Nov 23, 2022 20:57
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I AM GRANDO posted:That doesn’t make the problem insurmountable. You wait, maybe do generous buyback programs to get them away from the economically desperate. Make a kinder world with a robust safety net that makes people less afraid. Speak honestly about how deranged and stupid the average gun owner is and publicize all the cases of gun people accidentally killing their kids, or of their kids accidentally killing themselves. Gun people can’t be reached, but culture can change and their kids will be different. Smoking used to be commonplace in the US, but now it’s despised. I see no reason gun ownership couldn’t follow the same trajectory. Cigarette companies had a stranglehold on law and politics in the US just like the nra and gun manufacturers do now. You can’t make a problem go away entirely, but that’s no excuse to do nothing. Smoking is still popular among working class people. It’s not “despised” unless you mean “used as a class signifier for a despised class” https://www.cdc.gov/pcd/issues/2019/18_0553.htm I suspect we’d see similar trends at play if a gun buyback was ever attempted, something I do not think will ever be attempted at scale.
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Nov 23, 2022 20:57
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selec posted:People have just accepted that mass shootings happen, because the actual explanations for why people are so constantly unhappy and freaked out is bad for the money. It’s capitalism, and you can’t change it, because there’s more money in letting these things happen than there is in nationalized health care and communities which know and care about each other, rather than absorbing messages about how you shouldn’t trust your neighbors. The US is far from the only capitalist country in the world, but it is a notable outlier in terms of mass shootings. Placing the blame entirely on capitalism and ignoring things like the large number of firearms in the US, or the relatively lax rules around acquiring them. Why don't those things matter?
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Nov 23, 2022 21:03
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DeadlyMuffin posted:The US is far from the only capitalist country in the world, but it is a notable outlier in terms of mass shootings. It doesn’t matter because we are not even close to being comparably easy to live in, as a nation. I think it’s the distance between our image of ourselves (free, able to control our own destinies) that is the national myth contrasted so severely with the reality (I can’t quit the job I hate because then I will lose access to the health care I can’t afford) and the enormous gulf of what we expect a state to do vs what actual other first world nations do. I would say we maybe aren’t a first world nation anymore, also. We are something else, but people get really mad about that assertion so there’s not much discussion around it, folks are not rational about something they’ve been propagandized to believe their entire lives yet never given an actual rubric for. We can’t afford nice things, we’ve been told our whole lives, despite living in the richest country in the world. We got told this so much even the ostensible Nice Things party parrots it too. Well, it’s true, we don’t have nice things.
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Nov 23, 2022 21:31
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To say nothing of our shoddy infrastructure. The social safety net is one thing, but the actual physical bits of the country are kinda backwater. The person that came up with GDP was one of the most successful liars in history. The US has a lot of money. Americans? Not so much.
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Nov 23, 2022 21:47
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Class3KillStorm posted:While I agree with your general sentiments, even if you could get through the bolded steps above - and that's an if the size of the Empire State Building, mind you - what are you going to do about all of the guns currently in existence/circulation in the US? We already have almost as many guns as citizens here, and even if you could cut off the flow entirely tomorrow - no more guns being made or sold to citizens, no more military-grade weapons being handed off to police departments, etc. - there's still enough already existing weapons out there in people's hands to keep the current mass shooting status quo running for basically forever. selec posted:The state isn’t equipped to deal with this issue because ultimately the cops agree and slow-walk efforts to protect minority groups. Abolish the police. Yep. Even if we could do all those things, gun laws will only be enforced as much as the cops want to enforce them, just like with the original Black Panthers after Reagan signed the California gun control law. Cops will burn down entire poor black neighborhoods grabbing guns before they'll ever consider enforcing gun laws in wealthy white suburbs
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Nov 23, 2022 21:52
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selec posted:It doesn’t matter because we are not even close to being comparably easy to live in, as a nation. None of that actually addresses the original argument you made, which was "it's capitalism".
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Nov 23, 2022 22:03
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DeadlyMuffin posted:None of that actually addresses the original argument you made, which was "it's capitalism". All of that is due to capitalism, I don’t know what you think capitalism is if you can’t see “wealthy country provides no safety net worth a drat” as a feature of American capitalism.
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Nov 23, 2022 22:06
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selec posted:All of that is due to capitalism, I don’t know what you think capitalism is if you can’t see “wealthy country provides no safety net worth a drat” as a feature of American capitalism. If the root cause of mass shootings is capitalism, why does the US have so many more shootings than other capitalist countries?
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Nov 23, 2022 22:13
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