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cat botherer posted:Why do people think heating with candles is a good idea? It's going to be way more expensive than electricity, still. A catalytic propane heater would be way more effective and healthier in an outage anyway.
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Nov 24, 2022 21:51
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OwlFancier posted:You say this but if the UK ever embarked on a bunker building project  Lady Demelza posted:people are confident that they can
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Nov 24, 2022 21:52
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It’s an American oh poo poo power out because of hurricane/snow thing. Candle under terracotta plant pot does generate and store a not insignificant amount of heat if it’s -10
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Nov 24, 2022 21:53
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development project "the palisades by bellway homes" and it's a bunch of cardboard box forts with concrete poured over the top, starting at £250k
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Nov 24, 2022 21:56
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learnincurve posted:It’s an American oh poo poo power out because of hurricane/snow thing. Candle under terracotta plant pot does generate and store a not insignificant amount of heat if it’s -10 Something like this puts out a few dozen times that and just runs on propane: https://www.amazon.com/Mr-Heater-F2...s%2C216&sr=8-12 It also doesn't gently caress up your indoor air quality to anywhere near the same extent.
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Nov 24, 2022 22:01
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cat botherer posted:it means you should stop spending so much on candles.
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Nov 24, 2022 22:04
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I used to find Dril really funny, but now I understand what he was really saying. Dril was always saying very sad things. Cutting right into the heart of the matter.
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Nov 24, 2022 22:09
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Lady Demelza posted:I used to live in a flat that was regularly 11C during the winter evenings. It probably got colder overnight but I wasn't going to get out of bed to check. A colleague told me to keep an eye on the fridge because they malfunction when their internal temperature is higher than the external. Probably not, this November being super-warm (I think it might be the warmest November on record) means we're not gonna run out on gas this winter, which was the main concern. If there's a cold snap - wind drought there might be some power hiccups, but that could happen any year. It's also been a fairly wet November, which has helped restore soil moisture and water levels. It's not enough alone to counter 8 dry months, but it's a good start.
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Nov 24, 2022 22:36
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Pantsmaster Bill posted:Im finding it really hard to find any information about whether 2022 double glazing is significantly better and more efficient than the older stuff. We have been visited by a couple of salespeople and they claim that new stuff will be more efficient (of course they will) but is that really the case? Unless of course we go for the super expensive triple glazed or the vacuum sealed stuff. This was going to be a quick answer but it's turned into a bit of a deep-dive. There's a TL;DR at the end. I worked in window manufacturing for like, 17 years. Yeah, new stuff is gonna be more efficient. It's difficult to know what you would have had 20, 25 years ago. It could just be a double-glazed unit with no coatings, filled with air, which would give a U-value of about 2.8W/m²K. At best it could be an argon-filled unit with hardcoat low-e coating which would get you to about a 1.8 U-value. New units (argon-filled, low-e softcoat) can get down to about 1.1 U-value, but it depends als on stuff like the unit thickness. So, I think the best bang for your buck these days is a double-glazed unit, filled with argon gas and with a "softcoat", "low-e" coating (ultra-thin metallic (silver) coating on the inside of the outer pane which reflects heat back into the building). You can also get low-iron glass which means that the glass is more transparent to UV, which improves solar gain (your house will heat up more from the sun - a separate effect from the "U-value" which purely measures how much it keeps the heat in). The "softcoat" glass coatings are new - window coatings used to all be "hardcoat" which I think first turned up as "Pilkington K" glass which you might have heard of. This means that the coating is applied in a different way and the coating actually hardens and is fairly durable. Softcoat means that the coating doesn't harden and is more delicate (so only really suitable for the inside of double-glazed units) but also does a better job of keeping the heat in. Older windows (25-30 years old?) may have had no coatings at all and windows older than 30 years old almost certainly had no coatings. I think "Pilkington K"/hardcoat glass started being available ~30 years ago but I'm not sure when it became commonly used. The better "softcoat" coatings were introduced in 2005. Apparently a like-for-like comparison will get you a 1.4W/m²K U-value with hardcoat and 1.1W/m²K U-value with softcoat, so it's about 27% better just for the difference in coating. I'm also not sure when argon-filling became a regular thing though I suspect it was 30+ years ago. It's always been (and still is) an "optional extra" though. You can also fill your units with krypton which works even better but is more expensive. The gases unavoidably leak over time too - about 1% per year even when the seals are intact. If you have condensation in your window units then the seals have blown and there will also be much less argon (or none at all) in there too. There have been other improvements which can make a big difference - obviously there's triple-glazing but there's also "mirror-film" glazing where you have a double-glazed unit but instead of having an extra pane of glass in the middle to make it triple-glazed, you have a thin (I think like 0.3mm) film in the middle with another layer of metallic coating. This can give results almost as good as triple-glazing without making the unit heavier (which can make a difference for opening windows since with triple-glazed units you might need to beef up the hinges and hardware to support the extra weight). I think these can get down to something like 0.7W/m²K for a 28mm unit. These can be expensive and I'm not sure how available they are yet, though. Also available is Pilkington Spacia, which is double-glazing effectively but nothing like old stuff. It's two panes of glass, separated only by 0.2mm, with glass micro-spacers inbetween (you can't see them if you're standing more than a couple of feet away, apparently), and then the gap is evacuated of air to create a near-vacuum. This gets a U-value of 1.4W/m²K (the same as a good 20-28mm thick unit) but it's only 6mm total thickness. If can be used in conservation areas where you've got like, old Victorian single-glazed windows you can't replace (or have to replace like-for-like) instead of single-pane glazing, since they're so thin. A single regular glass pane has something like 5.8W/m²K loss, so pretty terrible. You could also make the vacuum glass into a traditional double-glazed "super unit" to get really low heat loss, but at that point you're getting crazy expensive. I'm not sure how much the Spacia glass is but it's not cheap. Probably out of the price range of most people and only really worth it for special applications. Also spacer bars (around the edges of the glass unit) have improved - I think they all used to be aluminium but now you get "warm-edge" spacer bars which I think are plastic and have lower conductivity, so the performance drops off less at the edges of the units. There are other factors that come into it, like the spacing between the glass panes, which can make quite a lot of difference, but I won't get into those too much since, if you're talking about replacing units within an existing window they'll likely be the same.... Though it does make some difference since the optimal gap for air-filled is not the same for argon-filled, which is not the same for krypton filled etc. since it's to do with gas flow/convection movement within the pane etc. which varies based on the gas density. Of course with all of this information you'd have to look into the cost, work out what proportion of your heating costs are due to losses through the window panes, and work out the savings and payback period to see if it's worth it: This website: https://www.homelogic.co.uk/how-much-heat-is-lost-through-the-roof says that heat loss is approx: Floors 25% Walls 35% Air leakage/draughts 15% Roof 25% Windows 10% I've looked up the average Heating Degree Days (a measure of how much you need to heat your home based on the weather outside) and it's an average of 170/month for Luton Airport or 2040 per year. That means that for each month you're using the same energy to heat your home as you would with a 1°C temperature difference for 170 days, or a 10 degree temperature difference for 17 days, etc. With those figures we can compare different materials with different U-values. SO If we compare an old worst-case double-glazed unit (2.8W/m²K) with a good new one (1.1W/m²K), we now have something to plug into the "K" figure. The U-value, in watts per meter-squared Kelvin just means "If you have one square meter of this material, and the temperature on one side is one kelvin above the other side, how much heat energy in watts (a watt being 1 Joule per second) will you lose through the material". We also have to take into account efficiency losses from your boiler, I think? Let's say you have a decently efficient 95% boiler. The worse your boiler is, the more savings you'll make in absolute terms. TL;DR: With 2040 total heating degree days per year, replacing 1m² of worst-case, old and busted glass (U-value 2.8) with glass that is the best-case new hotness for double-glazing (U-value 1.1) you will save 87.6kWh/year in heating costs - it's likely that your heating is natural gas and I believe the current rate is about 17p per kWh for gas? Having a hard time finding that figure. At 17p per kWh gas cost, 1m² of new double-glazing will save you £14.79 per year. But to reiterate that's the best-case scenario for double-glazing (going from the worst you might have to the best available at non-ruinous cost). Obviously the more you're paying for gas, the more you'll save. If you expect gas prices to continue to climb then it's a better investment, if you think they'll fall then it's worse. Also if you live somewhere colder than Luton you'll be saving more and vice-versa. ALSO if you think the cost of energy will continue to rise it's a better investment and if you think it'll go down it's a worse investment. Another way of looking at it: If your windows are 10% of your heating losses, replacing the glass in all of your windows from 2.8W/m²k to 1.1W will shave about 3.9% off your total heating bills. Though in reality it will be less than that because I think that the 10% includes losses through the frames etc. which won't change, and may not even improve that much with newer window frames. So, may not be worth it? It will however increase comfort within your home - in particular it will reduce the "cold spot" effect near windows and also things like interior condensation - though if you get really efficient double or triple glazing the script can flip and you get external condensation instead. As some others have said, dealing with drafts and improving air-sealing is likely to have the best payback since it's typically the cheapest thing you can do.
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Nov 24, 2022 22:40
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Lady Demelza posted:Are we still supposed to be worried about rolling blackouts this winter? I can't see how it will help if the entire nation is switching off the TV at the plug and then turning on an electric blanket. It probably won't happen but if it happens it'll be four or more weekdays in Jan/Feb at 4pm-7pm and very planned and not sudden. The primary issue seems to be surges from everybody coming home at 5pm and putting their ovens on, and not suddenly running out of power.
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Nov 24, 2022 22:48
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Also yeah on a different subject, candles: https://www.notechmagazine.com/2014...o%204%20hours). quote:Friends and readers keep sending me links to a “low-tech” heating system in which tea candles heat a combination of ceramic flower pots. It seems you all need a course in thermodynamics, so let’s start with some basics: Putting candles under a terracotta pot feels really warm... in that you can put your hand near it and go "ooh that's putting out a lot of heat" but in terms of heating even a small room up, yeah, not gonna cut it, and it's terrible for your indoor air quality.
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Nov 24, 2022 22:50
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However, placing four candles under terracotta pots under a chimney is better than just placing four candles under a chimney, because it's at least converting much of the rising convected heat to outward radiation. You still end up with a pretty lovely paraffin fireplace though. 
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Nov 24, 2022 22:54
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cat botherer posted:Why do people think heating with candles is a good idea? It's going to be way more expensive than electricity, still. A catalytic propane heater would be way more effective and healthier in an outage anyway. Not if they fall over and set the house on fire. Then you'll be warm for the rest of your life for a low low price of 2 quid. Or on a more serious note you can probably get really pretty and nice smelling scented candles and if you're willing to wrap up to keep warm might as well be a little hygge about it.
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Nov 24, 2022 23:07
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If you're going to do scandi stuff just drink winter fuel until you can't feel cold. 
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Nov 24, 2022 23:10
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cat botherer posted:Why do people think heating with candles is a good idea? It's going to be way more expensive than electricity, still. A catalytic propane heater would be way more effective and healthier in an outage anyway. cat botherer posted:Something like this puts out a few dozen times that and just runs on propane: Wow take a look at these two Misters Moneybags here!  Why yes, I'm gonna just spend a fortune on an expensive heater... THAT HAS NO FUEL. Candles provide light and heat, you don't need a stupid expensive burner just a match. Even better, buy cigarettes with all your money so you can skip on food. 
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Nov 24, 2022 23:21
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Can't we just set fire to the establishment to keep warm? Asking for a friend, like, in minecraft....
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Nov 24, 2022 23:21
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If you're going to just burn things for fuel you could achieve a similar effect just setting light to a bucket of petrol for probably cheaper too in terms of heat ouput.
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Nov 24, 2022 23:30
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Burning white diesel in a kerosene lamp is a nice via media between a barely useful wax stick and a bucket of boiling fire that keeps trying to become a cloud of suffocating death.
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Nov 24, 2022 23:33
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I am no centrist, give me candles or give me suffocating death.
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Nov 24, 2022 23:33
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 the BBC, once again going out of its way to poo poo all over trans people
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Nov 24, 2022 23:42
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Jedit posted:Or be like NJAN99 and buy a car that'll set itself on fire. That will keep you toasty warm.
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Nov 24, 2022 23:55
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NotJustANumber99 posted:Ok but I need to find a use for the toaster now I toast bread between my graphics cards. Use it to render 90s Sci fi
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Nov 25, 2022 00:18
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Nov 25, 2022 00:44
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Drinkslinger posted:
"We can confirm that we did not take the chance to be immediately transphobic so we are being transphobic now instead"
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Nov 25, 2022 00:45
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Women's hour is dripping with the desire to be hugely terfy but so proud of themselves for being the bbc flagship not discriminatory thingy. Its painful to listen to any time theres a trans adjacent thing on there. Its hilarious that given that they are now getting ripped on twitter by people calling them exactly the opposite.
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Nov 25, 2022 00:49
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andles for forks
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Nov 25, 2022 00:55
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Regarding windows, I looked at some swedish sources and they had some U-values to go with their tests. Comparing old worn out windows and then doing a repair (new putty, new seals). These are single pane wooden frame windows with a removable interior frame, so a sort of 2-glaze window. This is a kind of upgrade I feel could be added to any existing single pane window in a british home and retain the original look, can even be removed for summertime. The 1982 window was not repaired, it was too new. https://byggnadsvard.se/gamla-fonster-kan-bli-battre-an-nya/ (swedish page) code:Values for modern windows, english source, I've seen lower values mentioned though for triple glazed windows from sellers here, down to .7: https://aspirebifolds.co.uk/2018/03/what-are-typical-u-values-on-windows-and-doors/ code:His Divine Shadow fucked around with this message at 06:12 on Nov 25, 2022 |
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Nov 25, 2022 06:10
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Abolish the Met: https://twitter.com/myldn/status/1595831916963500033?s=46&t=yNYb3Yb7pxLd5gK7GhLmrA
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Nov 25, 2022 08:19
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Darth Walrus posted:Abolish the Met: Buggering Christ.
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Nov 25, 2022 09:17
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It's ok he's just a bad apple
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Nov 25, 2022 09:22
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I for one am absolutely shocked that yet another met cop is a maggot riddled piece of poo poo danger to the public. You don't expect it from such an honourable and honest profession... 😯
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Nov 25, 2022 09:24
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It's just a bad orchard
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Nov 25, 2022 09:33
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One bad barrel spoils the apples.
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Nov 25, 2022 09:53
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Tomberforce posted:Hate to think how many house fires there will be this year if people are trying to heat their houses with candles. 
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Nov 25, 2022 10:09
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Nilbop posted:Buggering Christ. Well sure, if he was in the ancient roman met police he probably would have
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Nov 25, 2022 10:10
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Microplastics posted:Well sure, if he was in the ancient roman met police he probably would have As the buggeree or the buggerer? Bugger is one of my favourite words, really impactful.
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Nov 25, 2022 10:12
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TACD posted:The company managing my block of flats sent a letter round saying they’d had inquiries about using Calor gas canisters to heat homes, and sternly warning everyone that they’re not appropriate. So I am looking forward to being unexpectedly exploded sometime over the winter They probably won't explode, they'll just kill the user with CO...
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Nov 25, 2022 10:21
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Tomberforce posted:They probably won't explode, they'll just kill the user with CO...
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Nov 25, 2022 10:32
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Sir Sidney Poitier posted:As the buggeree or the buggerer? I prefer Denzel Washington. I'll leave you to interpret this message.
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Nov 25, 2022 10:44
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https://twitter.com/joelycett/status/1596072479596085250 e: https://twitter.com/CrispianWheldon/status/1595591829252194305 fuctifino fucked around with this message at 12:09 on Nov 25, 2022 |
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Nov 25, 2022 11:10
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