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Morgana doesn't talk to everybody that way though, he's only a weirdo towards Ann. At some point he should probably realize that his attentions are not welcome.
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Nov 24, 2022 23:30
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| # ? May 23, 2024 17:52 |
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Morgana is a piece of poo poo towards Ryuji and therefore is worse than Teddie, who is only a piece of poo poo to Yosuke who completely deserves it.
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Nov 24, 2022 23:31
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I remember reading I think in another thread here that Morgana and Ryuji's whole feud makes more sense in Japanese since Morgana's JP VA leans a lot harder into the gentleman thief aesthetic and Ryuji speaking in the most vulgar Japanese possible while dressed like a stereotypical thug really grinds Morgana's gears.
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Nov 24, 2022 23:49
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Teddie is worse than Morgana in terms of creepy interactions with girls, Morgana is worse in terms of plot and character development, and they're both significantly worse than Koromaru in every way.
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Nov 25, 2022 00:47
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The other thing is that in vanilla (it was fixed in Royal) Morgana is extremely annoying to you personally with his continual demands that you go to bed. People were joking that he was your real jailer. Therefore people were predisposed to really dislike Morgana because he's annoying to you personally. Also in Royal there's the Ann/Morgana Showtime which is initiated by Ann a significant amount of the time and having Ann initiate paired behaviour changes the dynamic a little.
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Nov 25, 2022 02:07
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What it comes down to for me is that teddy is temporary and Morgana is permanent. He's in every scene, and it just gets old very quickly. Probably the most annoying character in the game. If ryuji is the best party member, Morgana's definitely the worst
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Nov 25, 2022 03:08
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Sydin posted:I remember reading I think in another thread here that Morgana and Ryuji's whole feud makes more sense in Japanese since Morgana's JP VA leans a lot harder into the gentleman thief aesthetic and Ryuji speaking in the most vulgar Japanese possible while dressed like a stereotypical thug really grinds Morgana's gears. there's no cultural aspect to their feud, morgana is an egoist who was feeling excluded and marginalized after ceding the navigator position to futaba and decided to double down on his abuse towards ryuji to compensate. he wasn't expecting ryuji to give as good as he got
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Nov 25, 2022 03:11
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Oxxidation posted:there's no cultural aspect to their feud, morgana is an egoist who was feeling excluded and marginalized after ceding the navigator position to futaba and decided to double down on his abuse towards ryuji to compensate. he wasn't expecting ryuji to give as good as he got I think Morgana's insecurity is actually kind of reasonable and understandable given the fact that he's a weird talking cat thing who has no one at all other than the Phantom Thieves (and he literally can't even talk to anyone other than them and other "metaverse users" - he's completely hosed if he loses them). While you can say as the player "it's obvious that they wouldn't toss him out," he probably used his position as "the guy who knows stuff about the metaverse and helps navigate" to help suppress that insecurity, so it comes back full force once he loses that with the back-to-back events of Makoto and Futaba joining. This is exacerbated by everyone except for Futaba leaving for the Hawaii trip at the height of his neurosis, during which he can only talk to a single person, and Futaba mostly ignores him due to being busy analyzing Sae's data (not out of malice or anything, but just because she's oblivious to these things - she's the most concerned after Morgana runs away). And before that trip, the rest of the Phantom Thieves are bizarrely dismissive of the fact that Morgana is obviously going through some sort of crisis (something which Haru acknowledges and is the reason for her initial unwillingness to work with them - if it was obvious to her, why are the Phantom Thieves oblivious to it?). This isn't to say that he's not at fault, because he's absolutely a huge rear end in a top hat to Ryuji during earlier parts of the game, but his behavior has some sort of reason to it - he has to prop up his own ego to deal with his (completely rational) fear about losing his place among "literally the only people he is even capable of communicating with." Also Ryuji actually is dumb as hell during the first ~half of the story and constantly risks blowing their cover (or outright does so with Makoto) and is primarily concerned with building fame and becoming popular (the bizarre story Ryuji vs confidant Ryuji dissonance).
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Nov 25, 2022 03:52
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102 hours later, I have finished P5. I enjoyed it overall, although I prefer 3 and 4. My favorite part was Futaba and Sojiro's character arcs, despite the overly corny boss battle. Tragically this then gave Futaba enough confidence to start inserting horrible gamer terms into everything. I've spent a lot of time around shut-in gamer nerds and I am reasonably confident that nobody on earth would dare speak that way. She needs a second change of heart. The worst part of the game was when Makoto stopped being able to use her loving sick ghost motorcycle.
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Nov 25, 2022 04:08
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Vargs posted:The worst part of the game was when Makoto stopped being able to use her loving sick ghost motorcycle. Play Strikers, you'll get all the sick ghost motorcycle action you can handle.
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Nov 25, 2022 04:37
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Even if Morgana was exactly as bad as the piece of poo poo Teddie in every way, he would still be better simply because I wouldn't have to hear Teddie's voice.
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Nov 25, 2022 04:57
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Ytlaya posted:<Morgana arc> Having just seen it again recently after a long break away from the game, I don't think the arc is bad but its position in the game and the usual Persona problem of things outside the canonical arc make it fall flat. Morgana is in your backpack for everything so having him flip-flow repeatedly from his usual upbeat barks in Momentos/s-links/other to his canonical sad sack comments really undersells it. It's such a simple arc to be stretched over a long timeframe with a lot of railroading and that, in addition to having him change attitudes on a dime, really undersells the whole thing. All the swooning "Lady Anne" creepiness aside, on this run I felt like I picked up a bit more subtext. His self-image is so hard locked on being a human and that image gets kicked at every turn. He has to hide constantly. Everyone, especially Ryuji, insists on calling him a cat. Futaba outright replaces him and then constantly treats him even more like a cat. He doesn't get to go for sushi and you don't bring any back for him. Everything around him reinforces that he's not human and now he's "useless" in the cognitive world as well. I feel like if this was its own arc you'd get a bit more time to deal with it but having it mushed up in that big post-third-palace lull and the comedy relief Beauty Thief bit just makes him look like a pouty rear end in a top hat. Ryuji kindasorta feels bad, Morgana basically admits fault, and everyone is happy again. That's a pretty lovely quick TV sitcom resolution to an existential crisis.
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Nov 25, 2022 05:10
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Pwnstar posted:Even if Morgana was exactly as bad as the piece of poo poo Teddie in every way, he would still be better simply because I wouldn't have to hear Teddie's voice. I can't bearlieve you went there I think it comes down to Morgana being more whiny/gameplay annoying combined with the Lady Ann thing feeling very like.. fedora-y even though I don't think it's intended that way. Teddie is just bad in a different way. Unfortunately he's an item toss character in P4A and as such he's default the worst persona character, even if you put aside his weird creeper thing
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Nov 25, 2022 05:13
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Basically all the Phantom Thieves are complete morons until Makoto joins. She can't singlehandedly cancel out the idiocy of Ren, Ryuji, Ann, and Yusuke all by herself
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Nov 25, 2022 05:23
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yusuke is actually one of the cannier operators in the gang, his advice just gets disregarded when it would be most useful he's the only one who thought something was fishy with the botnet pushing okumura as a target
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Nov 25, 2022 15:22
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Weird Pumpkin posted:I think it comes down to Morgana being more whiny/gameplay annoying combined with the Lady Ann thing feeling very like.. fedora-y even though I don't think it's intended that way. Part of it is, in a weird way, the fault of the voice actor. I like Cassandra Morris a lot and think she did a great job but she (and it's because the director told her so, let's be clear) gives Morgana such a sense of wounded pride whenever he talks about Ann that it raises an eyebrow.
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Nov 25, 2022 16:41
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Oxxidation posted:yusuke is actually one of the cannier operators in the gang, his advice just gets disregarded when it would be most useful Honestly the only reason Yusuke is second best next to Ryuji is that Ryuji doesn't have such a terrible, skeevy introduction.
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Nov 25, 2022 17:10
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Yusuke when you first meet him and Yusuke for the rest of the game are like two completely different characters
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Nov 25, 2022 19:20
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Dawgstar posted:Part of it is, in a weird way, the fault of the voice actor. I like Cassandra Morris a lot and think she did a great job but she (and it's because the director told her so, let's be clear) gives Morgana such a sense of wounded pride whenever he talks about Ann that it raises an eyebrow. This is my memory as well. Both of Teddie's VAs were amazing and did a great job with him in comparison. I gotta play vanilla P4 one of these days to hear all of Wittenberg's Teddie. His Shadow Teddie is certainly better on account of him being able to make a good menacing voice on his own while Sam had to get his voice distorted to hell with effects.
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Nov 25, 2022 20:05
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Skippy McPants posted:This game starts off kinda really dark. Not sure how you even raise the stakes from here. I mean, it's a JRPG so I assume it ends with killing god, but still. Oh okay, I just finished that pyramid and I guess that's how. Man, that was hosed up.
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Nov 25, 2022 20:28
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Oxxidation posted:there's no cultural aspect to their feud, morgana is an egoist who was feeling excluded and marginalized after ceding the navigator position to futaba and decided to double down on his abuse towards ryuji to compensate. he wasn't expecting ryuji to give as good as he got I don't mean there's a cultural aspect, more that one dub leans more heavily into Morgana being a flowery gentleman phantom thief who can't stand Ryuji's aesthetic than the other. It's the reason he picks on Ryuji specifically, rather than anybody else in the group. goethe.cx posted:Yusuke when you first meet him and Yusuke for the rest of the game are like two completely different characters With early Yusuke his eccentricity is really only filtered through his obsession with painting Ann, which has a lot of creepy poo poo attached to it. Once he joins the group it gets a lot better as his off the wall personality is diversified across his various weird quirks.
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Nov 25, 2022 20:37
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Skippy McPants posted:Oh okay, I just finished that pyramid and I guess that's how. Man, that was hosed up. That's about as hosed up as things are going to get for a while...until the extra Royal content
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Nov 25, 2022 20:42
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goethe.cx posted:Yusuke when you first meet him and Yusuke for the rest of the game are like two completely different characters this is such poor writing imo. same thing with ryuji, and hell, most of the phantom thieves. party member s-links should flesh out their chracters, not be totally contradictory. ryuji in his s link is so chill and has such a good head on his shoulders, and in the story is unbelievably stupid. makoto is a great example as well I think. other than the fact that her introductory palace has nothing to do with her, her awakening scene is so cool. but then right afterwards she basically goes right back to being a goodie two shoes. constantly badgering people about doing well on their grades. then her s link is also not really about her, where she learns that actually being a total busy body towards random students you don't know is the correct thing to do. it's very oddly done. I feel like her original palace boss was supposed to be the principal. that would've made much more sense, especially with his (nonsensical) prominance in the story. I still don't understand why this random school principal and school are part of the biggggg conspiracy.
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Nov 26, 2022 02:39
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The conspiracy is so fleshed out that a lot of the primary members of it we see do not even have names.
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Nov 26, 2022 02:54
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The Principal being part of he conspiracy always cofounded me, too. I guess it's a pretty nice school - how many high schools have former Olympians teaching there? - but then I'm forced to ask why our hero (who is supposed to be a delinquent) got sent to a much better school after his run-in with "the law."
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Nov 26, 2022 03:15
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NikkolasKing posted:The Principal being part of he conspiracy always cofounded me, too. I guess it's a pretty nice school - how many high schools have former Olympians teaching there? - but then I'm forced to ask why our hero (who is supposed to be a delinquent) got sent to a much better school after his run-in with "the law." I'm pretty sure it was just a function of the school taking in a hard-luck student for PR points plus location with respect to his new home. Edit: Actually, IIRC, the principal mentions as much during your first sit down with him. AlternateNu fucked around with this message at 03:40 on Nov 26, 2022 |
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Nov 26, 2022 03:32
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Presumably something like Apartments setting aside some units for housing assistance
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Nov 26, 2022 03:35
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Going in, I had no idea who the party members in this game were and deliberately tried to not look too hard at the splash screen. I was a little flabbergasted when Yusuke joined the group because up until that point he seemed like he was supposed to be a horrible creepy shithead that you're meant to dislike. Could have forgiven him if it was ever addressed, but nope. Game just immediately pretends it never happened and I couldn't stand him as a result. It's too bad because I otherwise like his comic relief gimmick. Honestly the only party members I was a fan of were Futaba, Ann, and Akechi. The rest were all some degree of insufferable or excessively boring. Akechi is of course the worst human being on the entire planet and I could not believe anyone in the group had any level of sympathy or trust for him, but at least he's entertaining.
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Nov 26, 2022 03:46
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Makoto standing outside the school all day in the rain during summer break is one of the most depressing things I've witnessed in a video game.
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Nov 26, 2022 03:53
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Skippy McPants posted:Makoto standing outside the school all day in the rain during summer break is one of the most depressing things I've witnessed in a video game. its so odd because they do so much great character work for her, it's clear she's the writer's favorite. following you around while investigating is hilarious. then the s link just drops the ball. I just finished futabas palace in my replay, and I think this is where the story really starts to drop the ball. going from these personal stories to big conspiracies that you're barely personally related to was really dumb imo. on the other hand, futabas palace and story is awesome. giant mom sphinx yelling you deserve to die, and futaba saying back "shut up bitch, you're not my mom" was awesome. can't believe you can romance her. really disgusting. I kind of agree with something someone said earlier, futaba's personality and story make a lot more sense if she was like, 11 or 12 rather than 15. of course maturity is variable between different people, but still. also how come nobody in the neighborhood knew her (not even the postman who must've delivered her a bunch of poo poo) even though sojiro says that she had only somewhat recently (months earlier) started having panic attacks and being unable to leave her room.
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Nov 26, 2022 04:08
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Vargs posted:I was a little flabbergasted when Yusuke joined the group because up until that point he seemed like he was supposed to be a horrible creepy shithead that you're meant to dislike. Could have forgiven him if it was ever addressed, but nope. Game just immediately pretends it never happened and I couldn't stand him as a result. I hate Sae for pretty much the same reason. Persona 5's writing is garbage outside the Kamoshida arc.
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Nov 26, 2022 04:16
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Mirello posted:its so odd because they do so much great character work for her, it's clear she's the writer's favorite. following you around while investigating is hilarious. then the s link just drops the ball. I just finished futabas palace in my replay, and I think this is where the story really starts to drop the ball. going from these personal stories to big conspiracies that you're barely personally related to was really dumb imo. These both feel like convention traps that Atlus built for themselves. I haven't played other Persona games, but I'm familiar enough with "too many characters" and "everyone must be player-sexual" to know them when I see dem. When they have twenty-one different NPC relationships to write, it's inevitable that some are going to get the short shrift or come off as contradictory to the core narrative. When traditionally, every lady in the games is a romance option, they just tumble down the checklist, barreling through anything weird or gross. It's doing stuff that isn't necessarily good for the game but that gets done anyway because it's expected. Similar to the mechanical bloat in modern triple-A games, but for story tropes
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Nov 26, 2022 04:23
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I thought chiya and yoshizawa were written well. With the later being that her one dimensionalallity being the whole point.
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Nov 26, 2022 04:49
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HootTheOwl posted:I thought chiya and yoshizawa were written well. bringing up royal content is cheating because it's better written than the entirety of persona 5
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Nov 26, 2022 05:01
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Skippy McPants posted:Makoto standing outside the school all day in the rain during summer break is one of the most depressing things I've witnessed in a video game. Look it's either that or go home to Sae.
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Nov 26, 2022 05:13
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Funky Valentine posted:Look it's either that or go home to Sae. But it's raining, and she has a key to the student council room!
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Nov 26, 2022 06:01
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Mirello posted:I still don't understand why this random school principal and school are part of the biggggg conspiracy. Only way that works for me is that he was only distantly connected to it (probably through Kamoshida making friends as a celebrity), but the Phantom Thieves put the school on Shido's radar and the principal started getting calls as a result. It works on a level of juvenile symbolism where of course the guy in charge of your school is the representative for The Man, but as an actual character he makes more sense as a relative nobody.
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Nov 26, 2022 10:12
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It depends on what Shujin is "supposed" to be. I can totally see, for example, the principal of some posh knob-factory like Eton or Harrow being part of a large conspiracy of absolute pricks.
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Nov 26, 2022 13:15
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Funky Valentine posted:Look it's either that or go home to Sae. Ha! No she couldn't. Sae wouldn't be home. Wait, that's bad too. 
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Nov 26, 2022 13:46
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| # ? May 23, 2024 17:52 |
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I never got the impression that the Principal was part of the conspiracy; he was just some schmuck whose boss or boss' boss was in the conspiracy and was leaning on him. Same way Makoto and Sae weren't in on it but were pressured into doing their bidding.
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Nov 26, 2022 13:49
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