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Does Welfare do anything significant to your pop SoL or is it purely a trap institution at this point? e: Also at 75 hours I think I’m losing steam at the moment. The binge was gonna come to an end at some point but what I’d really like to see after the balancing patches are maybe something else to work on when waiting for buildings to complete. Depending on the country I’m playing, sometimes I’m just waiting for things to progress and don’t have anything to do in the meantime. And more country flavor please, dear god buglord fucked around with this message at 04:11 on Nov 26, 2022 |
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Nov 26, 2022 04:03
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Welfare does do good things to your SoL but that's kind of the problem because then your jobs have to offer higher wages which they might not be able to do resulting in more people needing welfare and oh dear you've entered a death spiral.
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Nov 26, 2022 04:17
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I'd characterize welfare as more of a footgun institution than a trap institution. It can be a useful backstop on SoL it's just very easy to accidentally create a bad situation where your welfare costs are out of control and also none of your industries are profitable anymore because nobody can afford to have workers because you're paying your entire gdp in welfare
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Nov 26, 2022 04:19
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buglord posted:e: Also at 75 hours I think I’m losing steam at the moment. The binge was gonna come to an end at some point but what I’d really like to see after the balancing patches are maybe something else to work on when waiting for buildings to complete. Depending on the country I’m playing, sometimes I’m just waiting for things to progress and don’t have anything to do in the meantime. Have you tried endless war? It's really easy when the AI joins diplomatic plays they have no rational interest at the drop of the hat. Even more so if you have even a modest amount of infamy. Here's a solution to the Eastern European problem:  Romanian Uprising eventually settled down into regular Romania, although it never unified because I dunno either there's no event or it's busted. The aristocratic revolution in Ukraine spent a good 3 years repeatedly losing the same battle against an army with no general. Eventually it settled down and returned to being Ukrainian Uprising. I learned that as long as the country is called X Uprising, you cannot declare war on them. Peacefully annexing a country seems hopeless. I don't know why western Romania and Hungary stayed with Austria-not-Hungary while Slovakia went along with the ride (that revolution failed).
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Nov 26, 2022 04:50
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The latest patch fixed the worst of the performance issues, so I finally made it through to 1936. It was pretty fun being the big dog (as Brazil) throwing my weight around and slapping oil-producing provinces out of other nations, as well as taking Beijing and Tokyo for the hell of it. However, it is very much a 'make your own fun' kind of game at that point. The AI wasn't offering any meaningful opposition at that point even when I went over the infamy limit, and their economies started stalling out around 1910. For all the issues that we're seeing, there is a solid game imo, it just needs better AI and a bunch of fixes around war mechanics. Obligatory Balkan clusterfuck, since we're posting those. Besides the non-interactable uprisings, I really feel like the AI needs to be more aggressive in reclaiming their cultural homelands. Italy never jumped on the small and weak Italian breakaway, the NGF never moved towards unifying Germany despite grabbing chunks off the Ottomans, and all these minors should be at each others throats over their clay. The only regular wars over land were the US versus Mexico, which I'm guessing is due to claims specifically.  Next up I might try a game as Japan or another unrecognized.
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Nov 26, 2022 12:01
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Has anyone tried the mode where the AI victimises you for being the human player?
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Nov 26, 2022 12:20
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Gort posted:Has anyone tried the mode where the AI victimises you for being the human player? I'll probably try it next game along with the increased aggressiveness setting, but I suspect that it'll be much like in other Pdx games where it is more of a limitation on the early game and by the late game you've gotten far enough ahead that you can ignore what the AI does. Any reports from people who've tried it before will be appreciated.
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Nov 26, 2022 12:45
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It will just be a huge borefest of waiting out truces since everyone and their dog will pile on you every chance they get and get a free truce timer.
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Nov 26, 2022 20:22
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At the end of Russia->Soviet Union, the USA managed to keep up (in retrospect I played very suboptimally early on as I only now understand most of the game systems). They spammed shipyards and have an unbeatable fleet because they rolled an admiral with the +20 flotilla trait and +30% fleet command and there's no tech advantage to be had with the entire tree being filled in by 1920. The other European powers fell behind militarily but at least their economies aren't shambles.Sybot posted:Obligatory Balkan clusterfuck, Why is the AI so obsessed with Bulgaria??
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Nov 26, 2022 21:28
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i recommend playing with anbeeld's AI. it increases slowdown but the great powers are fuckin ruthless in carving up the globe between each other
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Nov 26, 2022 22:27
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Really sad about the out of sync issues in multiplayer. Once we reach 1890 and onward the shipping lanes out of sync happens so much it ruins the campaign for us  Especially since loading up the save and joining a game takes literally minutes for just staring at a screen with no load bar, even when the host has 500mb upload speeds. Why does it take minutes to upload a 20mb save file? The game is really reall fun, which is why the bummer hits harder when campaign after campaign is ended because of unplayable out of syncs. Is the one AI mod way more prone to this oos? Because playing without it is almost not even fun.
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Nov 26, 2022 23:28
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Pooned posted:Really sad about the out of sync issues in multiplayer. Once we reach 1890 and onward the shipping lanes out of sync happens so much it ruins the campaign for us They genuinely need to rework how the MP operates. At least give us a setting to play it in a simplified mode or something because the slowdown is real, real loving bad. ThatBasqueGuy posted:also majors in MP are godawful to play between fighting the UI, being taken over by the AI for lengths of time due to hotjoin not working (and the resulting UI fights), and the whole diplo play/capitulation system feeling clunky as hell between actual players. wouldn't play again absent several major reworks and probably also a solid modlist Yeah even though I like how they changed a bunch of things in concept the execution really leaves alot to be desired. Lawman 0 fucked around with this message at 00:12 on Nov 27, 2022 |
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Nov 26, 2022 23:38
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also majors in MP are godawful to play between fighting the UI, being taken over by the AI for lengths of time due to hotjoin not working (and the resulting UI fights), and the whole diplo play/capitulation system feeling clunky as hell between actual players. wouldn't play again absent several major reworks and probably also a solid modlist
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Nov 27, 2022 00:03
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The main issue I'm having is that they seemed to have left a bunch of crap in hoi4 and the other titles that would be perfect for this game.
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Nov 27, 2022 00:40
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Whats a good way to get Persia off the ground?
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Nov 27, 2022 01:04
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I like selling liquor to the Russians. It costs no convoys and your muslim population doesn't consume much of it
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Nov 27, 2022 01:09
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Whats a good way to get Persia off the ground? Become a drug dealer.
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Nov 27, 2022 01:10
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ThatBasqueGuy posted:the whole diplo play/capitulation system feeling clunky as hell between actual players It's clunky with the AI too. I have to think Paradox just likes difficult-ro-resolve border gore. It doesn't make all that much sense that colonizable African states have fixed borders, but I suppose the 'organic' colony growth creates historically realistic border gore.
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Nov 27, 2022 01:38
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I want to throw my computer out of the window. I'm finally strong enough to puppet Great Britain as Sikh after 72.1 hours of learning and trying and... They had a revolt and changed tags into Greater Manchester. Now they don't count for the achievement as Great Britain no longer exists. I'm going to see if I can take them over and release Great Britain or something. Ah, found a thread. Maybe I'm fine! I'll try... It worked! Got the achievement! https://steamcommunity.com/id/brandonreinhart_/   
GreenMarine fucked around with this message at 06:08 on Nov 27, 2022 |
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Nov 27, 2022 05:05
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Whats a good way to get Persia off the ground? You start with no ports so you should build at least one ASAP
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Nov 27, 2022 05:57
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More advanced PMs like chainsaws which use more expensive resources but fewer or better educated workforces make sense of you're limited in pops and struggling to get people. The problem is that even if you're running a pretty repressive society you end up with a lot of pops in the midgame because your standard of living will spike when you run a halfway function economy. So most of the time you won't be needing to run lean industries. Despite being an oligatchic monarchy which still had immigration restrictions (but did have multiculturalism to absorb my Central American, Canadian US conquests easier, which might be the root of the problem) my Mexico game ended with huge unemployment despite every industry being maxed out and significant peasant surplusses, so there's no reason to use the advanced methods. Is there a country where you actually have to struggle with a limited population most of the way through? I figure it might be fun. My Australia game I specced into immigration to support the goldfields ASAP so ended up with a similar problem earlier. GreenMarine posted:They had a revolt and changed tags into Greater Manchester. Hahahaha I can't believe that's a tag - how do you get Greater Manchester to spawn? MinistryofLard fucked around with this message at 06:31 on Nov 27, 2022 |
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Nov 27, 2022 06:29
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Try Bahrein for a low pop run.
NoNotTheMindProbe fucked around with this message at 06:46 on Nov 27, 2022 |
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Nov 27, 2022 06:37
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MinistryofLard posted:Hahahaha I can't believe that's a tag - how do you get Greater Manchester to spawn? Look at this, it's absurd. They call themselves the Magna Mancunian and their leader is Emperor David FitzClarence. I assume this is a Soccor reference, but...  I had taken London and then a few years later, Great Britain lost a rebellion to the Capitalists and this is the result. It's a sad story about the state of the world that they are the #8 power. GreenMarine fucked around with this message at 07:10 on Nov 27, 2022 |
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Nov 27, 2022 06:51
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Yeah, it's a bizarre Easter egg, England becomes Greater Manchester if they lose London and hold Lancaster. They're still treated as Great Britain for purposes of achievements, it's just a name change. Don't think it's a football reference, just someone on the dev team with a sense of humor. Beating up Britain and taking London is kind of beating the end boss of Victoria 3, after all. All the various nations and flags and how to trigger them can be seen here: https://vic3.paradoxwikis.com/List_of_flags
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Nov 27, 2022 09:51
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:I like selling liquor to the Russians. It costs no convoys and your muslim population doesn't consume much of it Lawman 0 posted:Become a drug dealer.  NoNotTheMindProbe posted:You start with no ports so you should build at least one ASAP
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Nov 27, 2022 14:15
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Wait, how do you produce actual liquor? I've only seen wine from grain estates. Also I worry about doing that then Russia attacking me or me getting powerful enough to want to conquer Azerbaijan/Baku or central Asia from them and cutting the trade ruining that particular industry for me. Which, that is something I worry about a lot, I have a big fear about it and generally have tried being self-sufficient for most industries so that a trade route getting messed up for any reason doesnt tank my economy. Stills as a production methods for food industries, for one.
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Nov 27, 2022 14:23
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Capfalcon posted:Stills as a production methods for food industries, for one. AAAAA! Real Muenster fucked around with this message at 15:15 on Nov 27, 2022 |
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Nov 27, 2022 15:13
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That makes sense. I'm a little fuzzy on food industries, honestly. I get, conceptually, that it is 1:1 for rich pop food and 1.5:1 for poor pop food, but it's hard to see who is consuming it vs. other foods.
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Nov 27, 2022 16:24
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Food industries are part of that category that (from your perspective as an economic planner) convert labor into SoL. Thus, they only turn a profit if they help maintain SoL, that is if there's an actual affordable demand above and beyond substituting the processed good for the unprocessed one--though of course you can reduce losses by selling that substitution low and only eating the labor cost, rather than having it go to waste entirely and losing the inputs as well, if you also want a byproduct or if you've already built the building and don't want to scrap it. Specifically, at any SoL, your pops demand any two of liquor, tobacco, and opium. And liquor's the cheapest way to do it in a vacuum--to be exact, they want a combination of percentages of £30 worth of liquor at base price, £40 worth of tobacco at base price, and £50 worth of opium at base price that adds up to 100% while taking no more than 60% from any one, so assuming you've got a precisely ratioed economy 10k workers (or 20k dependents) will consume £18 of liquor and £16 of tobacco a week (getting 60% from the cheapest good, and then the remaining 40% from the next-cheapest.) But if you've driven your tobacco and opium price down below liquor's, say to £20/unit and £25/unit respectively, they will instead consume £12 of tobacco and £10 of opium, and ignore the liquor. If you don't have opium but do have tobacco down there and liquor at base, it would be £12 of tobacco and £12 of liquor. Here's where geography, politics, and the rest of the economy enter the picture. If you have a temperate climate you can have all the tobacco you want, and if you're on the south rim of Asia you additionally get all the opium you want. But if you're, say, in Europe, you get neither and may not have the trade pull or colonies for either--and then you need liquor. And liquor only comes from two places, subsistence agriculture of some sort with the Home Workshops PM or food industries with a Stills PM. So as a European country, you'll be forced to either import or to build up food industries (even if they're not necessarily profitable; the liquor is just a byproduct) as you enclose, industrialize, and proletarianize your peasantry, or drop your SoL and thus tank your education, research, taxation, and political pliability while slowing that industrialization process down. Later on, or honestly not that much later on as the process has already been running for a century or two before game start in the imperial core, you start to get further up into higher standards of living. And there's where food factories actually pay off. Above 20 SoL, pops require both basic foods (for which groceries are considered equal to grain or fish) and luxury foods (for which grain and fish do not qualify.) The entire luxury foods basket is £30 base price worth of meat/fruit/groceries/sugar of which no more than £12 any one source, and sugar only purchased at half the priority of the other 3 unless necessary to complete the basket. Sugar's also geographically gated off to some degree, and is itself processed fruit for the less geographically-gated version, so as segments of your pops hit 20 SoL they will begin to preferentially buy groceries (that is, processed grain and fish) even though their price is grain+FI labor or fish+FI labor unless you have an actual groceries shortage and they're forced onto sugar. Above SoL 30, only luxury foods are purchased, and people will literally starve before baking a loaf or bread or letting an unfileted whole fish look at them with its googly eyes. E: So basically tl;dr if you're south Asia they're mostly an endgame thing when/if SoL hits historical interbellum US/Europe levels, anywhere else they come with either bourgeois industrial proletarianization (which you might have at game start if you're Europe or the northeastern US! or might never ever hit if you're Japan and need to build several thousand rice farms to get there) or the implied people's proletarianization via collectivization of agriculture that comes with Command Economy. Mandoric fucked around with this message at 16:44 on Nov 27, 2022 |
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Nov 27, 2022 16:31
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I've had a lot of success making money off of groceries. A longer supply chain means more employment and opportunities to collect taxes, along with the consumption tax on liquor they can make some real money for you. Plus, it's another way to give a higher SoL to your population when you're glutted with grain or rice or whatever. I just wish there was a way to make them use meat instead of fish.
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Nov 27, 2022 16:31
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Mandoric posted:And liquor only comes from two places, subsistence agriculture of some sort with the Home Workshops PM or food industries with a Stills PM. Thanks for breaking that down so clearly. I think however Potato farms can also produce Liqour as a by-product much like other farms can produce wine or fruits/sugar.
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Nov 27, 2022 16:39
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Guzba posted:Thanks for breaking that down so clearly. I think however Potato farms can also produce Liqour as a by-product much like other farms can produce wine or fruits/sugar. Ah, that's my oversight, I've primarily played Asian and North American tags so I'm still a bit iffy on some of the specialty farms.
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Nov 27, 2022 16:43
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Mandoric posted:Food industries are part of that category that (from your perspective as an economic planner) convert labor into SoL. Thus, they only turn a profit if they help maintain SoL, that is if there's an actual affordable demand above and beyond substituting the processed good for the unprocessed one--though of course you can reduce losses by selling that substitution low and only eating the labor cost, rather than having it go to waste entirely and losing the inputs as well, if you also want a byproduct or if you've already built the building and don't want to scrap it.
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Nov 27, 2022 16:45
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Ottoman tips? Struggling with not hitting the dead man of Europe event
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Nov 27, 2022 17:11
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You are not hitting the literacy one, so do not bother. I had Promote Social Mobility on all my most populous states from day 1 and didn't even get close. Also, the military one A) counts conscripts if they are mobilized, and B) only needs to be true for a single tick, so you could theoretically shift to the required production methods and then shift back as soon as it triggers. Urbanization and squashing separatism is easy, so the primary issue is getting strong enough to fight Egypt but weak enough that Egypt doesn't just back down and only give you a single state.
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Nov 27, 2022 17:33
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The biggest thing for the Ottoman's was fixing your bureaucracy problem. Starting the chain by going in wealth voting->No serfdom->No traditionalism->Per Capita tax worked for me though if you get bad debate/event rolls you can try and get rid of hereditary bureaucrats while it's on cooldown. That'll let you tax more of your pops without having to build more admin buildings. As for getting your economy going to support a military I started by building a lot of coal mines in Kastamonu, providing gas lighting to urban centers until your steel/mining industry needs the coal more, and changing the majority of my ports from cargo ports to anchorages and using those boats in my fishing wharves. You have a lot of good trading partners on your borders, esp Russia if you drop the rivalry. Importing wood from them means you can ignore that and focus on heavier industry. From there just be aware that if you successfully complete the Egyptian war and reclaim Palestine et all, you get additional missions to beat up egypt to clear the event too. The Urbanization one is pretty difficult though. If you try and go for it you're not getting as much of a benefit from any construction industries you build and any expansion into Egypt will set you further back from those goals as they're typically low urbanization.
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Nov 27, 2022 17:46
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GreenMarine posted:I want to throw my computer out of the window. I'm finally strong enough to puppet Great Britain as Sikh after 72.1 hours of learning and trying and... How did you not get poo poo on by the EIC right away? I tried a couple runs, and they generally launch an Annex play on day 1.
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Nov 27, 2022 18:25
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What speed do people play this game on?
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Nov 27, 2022 18:26
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TwoQuestions posted:How did you not get poo poo on by the EIC right away? I tried a couple runs, and they generally launch an Annex play on day 1. Start a war with sindh day 1 and usually they will jump in by themselves which will allow you to beat them up.
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Nov 27, 2022 18:42
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The Sikh empire is like extremely hard and might be the hardest major power but man does it feel good to kick the UK in the nuts.
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Nov 27, 2022 18:46
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