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Honestly you can't think of it as a prequel. It is one but it stands on its own far more than any other prequel or sequel in Star Wars.
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Nov 27, 2022 16:18
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Begemot posted:I mean, the characters, writing, production design, and acting? It’s extra hilarious to go back and read the almost pining nerd journalism on “THIS IS WHY THIS OBSCURE STAR WARS VILLAIN MAY MAKE AN APPEARANCE!!”
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Nov 27, 2022 16:22
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Started watching Obi-Wan Kenobi, and oof, even without any comparisons to Andor, it just feels kind of lame. Half the show is in the dark, so I can't even tell what's going on. I was interested in seeing Obi-Wan and Owen butt heads over raising Luke, but I was disappointed it was basically only one scene. Super precocious Leia is silly, but I'm fine with it. I like the interactions between her and Obi-Wan. Obi-Wan also does a Rainmaker lariat, so that's another point in the show's favor.
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Nov 27, 2022 16:22
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Isometric Bacon posted:One thing that came to mind after reading Gilroys comment about empty calories with me was the scene where the Jedi protector lady in Obi Wan dies, and the swelling music and Kenobi's stereotypical 'Noo!' reaction and running in to hear her death speech. "So much going on, with absolutely nothing to say, and all of it happening so quickly. The pace of lovely content outstrips our ability to understand it. And that is the real trick of the IP machine." A Dirty Sock fucked around with this message at 19:54 on Nov 27, 2022 |
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Nov 27, 2022 16:23
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I’m making it my duty to turn all the effusive Andor critics into Stalinists.
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Nov 27, 2022 16:23
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The writing and direction are good, and it's well cast. The plot paints an effective picture of life under the empire, from exploited natives and workers to members of the bureaucracy itself, turning the Star Wars Empire from a faceless evil entity into, well, an empire, staffed by collaborators both willing and less so, and people who are living their own inspirational (from a certain point of view) stories as, eg, career women climbing the ladder of the oppressive regime's secret police. Tonally it's fairly grounded and manages to make regular Star Wars things like TIE fighters into menacing war machines instead of the usual papier-mache cannon fodder (something Rogue One also did very well, from the Death Star all the way down to Darth Vader) but also has moments of high fantasy-esque heroism and expresses itself through symbolism a lot, which I enjoy. One example being that the prison they break out of resembles the Imperial logo, so you end up with this overhead shot of an imp logo with little bits flying out of it. Bricks was another one I liked a lot from the finale, obviously Maarva has herself made into a weapon against the Empire both figuratively in her speech and literally when Brasso clubs people with her remains, but also there's the rebel speech about how individual little acts of rebellion are happening all the time and they all add up- they're all bricks in the wall. That said, Star Wars fans will inevitably grade the show on a Star Wars shaped curve, and that curve has been spiral-shaped and heading downwards for a good while now. Watch the Obi-Wan show from earlier this year for a good primer on why the fanbase is so relatively enthusiastic about Andor- it's less that it's one of the best TV shows ever and more that it's a Star Wars entertainment product that was made by grown-ups.
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Nov 27, 2022 16:26
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Me watching Andor season finale: I wonder what Cal Kestis is up to
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Nov 27, 2022 16:28
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John Wick of Dogs posted:Me watching Andor season finale: I wonder what Cal Kestis is up to I dunno if you're joking, but I mentioned in the CineD Star Wars thread that IF season 2 needed some sort of force user narrative written in for a 3-episode arc, that -- barring any newly introduced force sensitive character -- Cal Kestis and the Mantis crew would seem like the most natural fit for the show. That's a big IF for me though, and I hope Gilroy doesn't rely on that crutch. I talked up the show a lot during thanksgiving to family and friends, and one friend of mine who also loved the show is convinced a Jedi is gonna show up during season 2.
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Nov 27, 2022 16:36
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Just about everyone with lines in Andor - and a whole bunch of nameless, voiceless extras - feel like people. By contrast, almost every speaking role in Obi-Wan and Book of Boba Fett is relegated to nothing more than "exposition" or "deus ex machina." Also, the plotlines for those shows mostly advance because the good guys and the bad guys take turns being painfully incompetent, whereas the overarching plot of Andor advances because Andor, the Rebels, and the Imperials are mostly pretty clever.
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Nov 27, 2022 16:37
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teagone posted:I dunno if you're joking, but I mentioned in the CineD Star Wars thread that IF season 2 needed some sort of force user narrative written in for a 3-episode arc, that -- barring any newly introduced force sensitive character -- Cal Kestis and the Mantis crew would seem like the most natural fit for the show. That's a big IF for me though, and I hope Gilroy doesn't rely on that crutch. I talked up the show a lot during thanksgiving to family and friends, and friend of mine who also loved the show is convinced a Jedi is gonna show up during season 2. I hope the rebels hang the Jedi.
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Nov 27, 2022 16:38
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Boris Galerkin posted:This is a serious post, not trying to troll: what’s the appeal of Andor? Like really? A lot of various sources on the internet are going on and on about how Andor is not only the best Star Wars show right now, but also one of the best sci-fi shows period. I’ve literally never read a bad take on the show. I feel like the question here is what even do you look for in a show? Have you ever watched a stage play and enjoyed a compelling performance in its own right? It seemed like maybe you were looking for something familiar and comfortable and left hanging when there was less of that than most Star Wars media, which seems to be what leaves a lot of the Star Wars fans who didn't care for this cold.
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Nov 27, 2022 16:45
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teagone posted:I dunno if you're joking, but I mentioned in the CineD Star Wars thread that IF season 2 needed some sort of force user narrative written in for a 3-episode arc, that -- barring any newly introduced force sensitive character -- Cal Kestis and the Mantis crew would seem like the most natural fit for the show. That's a big IF for me though, and I hope Gilroy doesn't rely on that crutch. I talked up the show a lot during thanksgiving to family and friends, and one friend of mine who also loved the show is convinced a Jedi is gonna show up during season 2. B2 and BD would definitely be buddies.
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Nov 27, 2022 16:57
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PunkBoy posted:B2 and BD would definitely be buddies. That would be like when an energetic puppy tries to play with an old dog that just wants to lie down.
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Nov 27, 2022 17:10
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Boris Galerkin posted:This is a serious post, not trying to troll: what’s the appeal of Andor? Like really? A lot of various sources on the internet are going on and on about how Andor is not only the best Star Wars show right now, but also one of the best sci-fi shows period. I’ve literally never read a bad take on the show. I do think the praise is a little high from the unexpected shock of a Star War being good, but still like "a bit better than the peak seasons of The Expanse" is pretty good. I really like it because (actually, much like the Expanse) it's a translation of Cold War spy thrillers and, more so, of political/war dramas about decolonization into a scifi setting. The actual science is nonexistent and it barely uses existing characters, but it's set in a universe people are familiar with as a way of exploring those ideas- especially since Star Wars was always an excuse for translating the war movie into a setting without the messy context of history. The difference is that it's less Dambusters and Hidden Fortress and more Battle for Algiers and Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy
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Nov 27, 2022 17:44
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John Wick of Dogs posted:Me watching Andor season finale: I wonder what Cal Kestis is up to Luthen is Cal, it's been a rough 10 years
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Nov 27, 2022 17:53
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Watching Genevieve O'Reilly do such an amazing job as Mon Mothma really has me salty that they cast the disembodied uncanny valley head of Peter Cushing as Tarkin in Rogue One instead of letting my boy Wayne Pygram have another shot at the character. And the less that's said of Deep Fake Luke and Leia, the better.
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Nov 27, 2022 18:18
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Tony Gilroy Season One Overview Interviewquote:The season ends on a doubly powerful note: a funeral procession on Ferrix for Maarva, Cassian’s adoptive mother, followed by a full-scale revolt against the Imperial occupation. The clash is prompted by a stirring holographic speech from Maarva, who shouts “Fight the Empire!” before a brick, made from her ashes, is used as a weapon. Though it closes the season, the sequence was actually the first element of the series Gilroy worked on, particularly the music.  God drat that's impressive
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Nov 27, 2022 18:19
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The funeral march, particularly the music, is possibly my all time favourite Star Wars moment. Yeah, yeah, space wizards are cool, but this is just regular folks resisting fascism with nothing more than courage and a brick. Still waiting for an official version to drop, but in the meantime someone has done a rough job of isolating the score from that sequence. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23kapykPyEg
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Nov 27, 2022 18:36
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stev posted:That would be like when an energetic puppy tries to play with an old dog that just wants to lie down. That was my exact thought as well!
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Nov 27, 2022 18:54
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Arc Light posted:Just about everyone with lines in Andor - and a whole bunch of nameless, voiceless extras - feel like people. For sure, I remember reading a review of the movie Lady Bird that praised how the characters felt like they existed before the scene and will continue to be there after the camera stops. Like others have said good call to have few stormtroopers so the maskless imperials can have more character. Yeah, contrasted with Boba Fett where most of the plot concerns what the podcast We Hate Movies would refer to as “the vague drug trade,” including learning Mos Eisley apparently is a democracy with a mayor. It was too Mandalorian adjacent to have its own voice, especially as Disney wouldn’t risk their billion dollar Grogu toy empire to have Boba actually doing evil stuff. Also badly needed a more charismatic lead to play Boba, especially as he’s supposed to be leading a criminal gang.
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Nov 27, 2022 19:04
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Vinylshadow posted:Tony Gilroy Season One Overview Interview Well poo poo, that makes the "real instruments but with greebles glued on" aesthetic much less tacky if they actually had to function as instruments and were actually played during the scene
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Nov 27, 2022 19:05
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404notfound posted:Well poo poo, that makes the "real instruments but with greebles glued on" aesthetic much less tacky if they actually had to function as instruments and were actually played during the scene Tacky? TACKY?! Sir, I was leaning forward in my seat nodding with approval at clarinet greebles because that's pure OG Star Wars design aesthetic right there.
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Nov 27, 2022 19:29
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404notfound posted:Well poo poo, that makes the "real instruments but with greebles glued on" aesthetic much less tacky if they actually had to function as instruments and were actually played during the scene Having props that actually function was a huge part of development The anvil clock? Actually sounds like that Andor's blaster prop has a functioning spinning midsection to swap the barrel to prevent overheating, and I'm curious if we'll get a toy that does the same thing
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Nov 27, 2022 19:35
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Vinylshadow posted:Having props that actually function was a huge part of development of course we will, 1000%
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Nov 27, 2022 19:50
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Vinylshadow posted:Having props that actually function was a huge part of development Got a link to a video or something talking about this? The anvil was one of my favorite centerpieces of the show.
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Nov 27, 2022 21:00
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I know I'm way behind other posters on takes, but as awesome as it was I get why some people felt underwhelmed at credits. It's also why it's so brilliant though. The tension of the episode's build-up got to me way more than most media. Almost physical anxiety. The revolt is both powerful and terrible (in an intended human way). And after all that, andor completely subverts it by eluding all his dangerous pursuers (and accomplishing his goals). I also like the comparison of shots of the "real" rebellion. A system so large can't be toppled by assassinations; the people have to reject it in numbers. Having that come to fruition while showing andor doing the covert extraction/spy stuff was great. Without maarva sowing that mentality, the rebellion remains a small outmatched group and the townsfolk are hostages, bystanders, victims. The funeral turned them into soldiers of the rebellion.
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Nov 27, 2022 21:02
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Danger posted:I’m making it my duty to turn all the effusive Andor critics into Stalinists. Into losers? Harsh.
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Nov 27, 2022 21:03
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I'm rewatching Andor now, and Luthen shows his metal blade at S01:E03 31:30. It's a blink and you'll miss it scene.
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Nov 27, 2022 21:09
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Andor is good because nobody has used the Force yet. Are there any Wookipedia entries on the different Rebel factions Saw Guerra was listing off? I feel there probably is somewhere.
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Nov 27, 2022 22:00
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Admiral Bosch posted:Got a link to a video or something talking about this? The anvil was one of my favorite centerpieces of the show. Just an article at the moment. Fingers crossed we get a full Gallery series at some point https://www.starwars.com/news/andor-props
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Nov 27, 2022 22:06
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exmarx posted:presumably they're the star wars equivalent of "patriotic socialists" or whatever making Saw even more correct not to team up with them Saw did nothing wrong
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Nov 27, 2022 22:10
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I'm playing Jedi Fallen Order right now and Cere said she escaped in a prison riot, and approximately five minutes later I ran into Saw Guerrera. I don't think she was in Andor's prison for obvious reasons but it's interesting that there were multiple prison riots happening within a small time frame, it really does fit with everything else going on.
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Nov 27, 2022 22:40
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Boris Galerkin posted:This is a serious post, not trying to troll: what’s the appeal of Andor? Like really? A lot of various sources on the internet are going on and on about how Andor is not only the best Star Wars show right now, but also one of the best sci-fi shows period. I’ve literally never read a bad take on the show. Andor is an interesting show if you think it's an interesting question to ask, what are Cassian's key motivations at episode 3? episode 6? episode 12? if he has changed (and he obviously has), what led to those changes? Me personally, coming from a union organizer background, I've spent a bunch of time thinking about why people are the way they are, what are the experiences they've had to become like this, and what they would need to change and commit to a union action. Besides the personal background stuff, I find that people are deeply influenced by the social, economic, and political landscape that they grow up in. Someone who's the first in their family to go to college has an extremely different outlook on life than someone who grew up assuming they'll go to college just like everyone else in their family. So I guess for me I'm interested in how Andor's 'scifi' is more, hmm, 'soft sciences' than 'hard sciences' - a fiction about social science, psychology, political economy. The Empire is the most detailed and granular it's ever been, and builds out the political landscape that would lead people to want to rebel anyways. so here's a good example, pointed out on the More Civilized Age podcast: leida's chant (chapt 11) must a new chant, because it's a chant about the old ways. if it were an actual old chant then it would just be the old way itself. it's a manufactured, idealized tradition, an imagined cultural past. The episode contrasts this heavily against the actually existing, actually practiced tradition of ferrix's funerary bricks. in ferrix nobody says "these are the old ways." people just say "these are our ways, which we are doing, and have always been doing." it says a lot about the political trends going on in star wars, and the history of the respective societies. you've probably heard the old saw about "hard men create good times, good times create soft men, soft men create hard time, hard times create hard men." it's fascistic hogwash, but it's the kind of political trend that underpins Leida's embrace of "the old ways." retvrn to tradition and all that nonsense. it's meaningful that whatever passes for "star wars youth culture" is having right-wing trends at the same time that democracy is dying to thunderous applause and emperor palpatine is ascendant. there's lots to play with here.
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Nov 27, 2022 22:45
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John Wick of Dogs posted:I'm playing Jedi Fallen Order right now and Cere said she escaped in a prison riot, and approximately five minutes later I ran into Saw Guerrera. I don't think she was in Andor's prison for obvious reasons but it's interesting that there were multiple prison riots happening within a small time frame, it really does fit with everything else going on. I don't remember about the prison riot but freeing the Wookies was pretty cool. Fallen order is a pretty great game that I should replay some time
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Nov 27, 2022 22:49
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Kosmo Gallion posted:Are there any Wookipedia entries on the different Rebel factions Saw Guerra was listing off? I feel there probably is somewhere. AFAICT the only pages are for the groups that existed previously, so the Partisans (Saw's guys) and Separatists (holdouts presumably). As for the other groups... Neo-Republicans: presumably Mothma's faction, ends up becoming the dominant group, gets blown up by the First Order Ghorman front: local insurgency on Ghorman, apparently doesn't want to work with Saw or the other way around Partisan alliance: suggests this is different from Saw's guys, perhaps there was a schism? Sectorists: maybe these are like Federalists? No central government, each sector handles its own affairs? Human cultists: in agreement that these are probably human supremacists who think that the Empire is too mean to humans/not mean enough to Rodians Galaxy partionists: the two-state solution to the Galactic Civil War, just the worst people to run into at parties. Big on the HoloNet's radicalcentrism subreddit.
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Nov 27, 2022 22:49
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Data point on what might be motivating Human Cultists to not just get with the New Order program and take the W: As of the events of the show the Senate still has "alien" representatives and Sly Moore (an Umbaran) is still highly placed in the Emperor's inner circle and dining with Senators. Sure the Emperor TALKS a good game about High Human Cultire but he's got One Of Them whispering in his ear. Barely set up any death camps at all. Dunno if Mas Ameda is still in the picture at this point but they'd definitely be triple parentheses him too.
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Nov 27, 2022 22:56
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I think Mas Amedda is the Grand Vizier, so yeah, the Human Cultists are probably pissed at that.
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Nov 27, 2022 23:00
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Vinylshadow posted:Tony Gilroy Season One Overview Interview That explains why the drum sounded so different when the scene cut away from the band. The sound of it was reverberating down the streets of the set and getting distorted! That's so loving cool. Also I'm pretty sure one of the greebled instruments was a french horn with what looked like a bucket with the bottom cut out and attached to the bell 
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Nov 27, 2022 23:01
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Owlbear Camus posted:Data point on what might be motivating Human Cultists to not just get with the New Order program and take the W: As of the events of the show the Senate still has "alien" representatives and Sly Moore (an Umbaran) is still highly placed in the Emperor's inner circle and dining with Senators. Sure the Emperor TALKS a good game about High Human Cultire but he's got One Of Them whispering in his ear. Barely set up any death camps at all. I'm looking forward to the Season 2 story where Mon Mothma trains a Sullustan to use Human Voice so that they can get air support from White Power Bi'il. I once looked up Mas Ameddas on Wookieepedia and a) he's still around and b) what ends up happening to him sounds dumb as poo poo.
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Nov 27, 2022 23:02
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chitoryu12 posted:Into losers? Harsh. Stalin’s heists funded the revolution and he’d go on to defeat the Nazis in WW2.
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Nov 27, 2022 23:03
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