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Neddy Seagoon posted:I want to throw out a different hypothesis for argument's sake that could be hiding in plain sight based on what we've seen. Suletta's an android and is herself another demonstration of GUND-format technology alongside her sister Aerial, demosntrating a full-body AI-driven GUND platform at human scale. We've seen severe/total body augmentation teased several times in those old GUND-ARM medical tech videos (specifically that shot of someone's body showing a fully-artificial torso under human skin), and this could hypothetically go a long way to explaining specifically why Suletta is so inexperienced in everything except piloting Aerial. What better way to work in space than with a fully-synthetic person who won't be affected by radiation and a lack of gravity for prolonged periods? I would think that would be pretty crazy to sneak by a medical examination which would be pretty stupid for a school that handles pilots.
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Nov 27, 2022 15:27
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Kchama posted:Okay, this doesn't seem to track at all since everyone has been noticing very obviously that Suletta isn't putting two and two together because the show is making the timeline troubles obvious, but again: why? This whole contrived bullshit with cyrosleep and mind-wipe isn't really necessary and even if it was, you'd think it'd be brought up as something that exists in the setting without directly connecting it to Suletta. But the show hasn't done it, while providing a lot more evidence that she probably isn't Eri. Like the problem with this whole idea is that it actually deadens a lot of the emotional reactions you'd expect from everything. If it is just simple amnesia, then by the time she remembers everything, it's going to be too late to cause drama, and that's literally the only reason you'd want this sort of lame plot for: To cause drama. It doesn't really fit the Tempest theme, either. ??? I don't see how my explanation doesn't show why. I just told you, it's to delay the reveal until a key moment. Having cryosleep or whatever creates a big moment where Suletta stumbles on to a pod with her name on it and realises everything. Then instead of everything being drip fed slowly, all the big moments come at once. She can have uncomfortable dreams etc and they can all just be dreams and she can move her relationship forwards with Mio thinking none of this can directly be about her until Boom. Without that the developing plot would be overshadowed by "when is Suletta gonna check Wikipedia and figure things out". Why would you offer any important hints towards the key mystery of the narrative 8 episodes into a two cour series? Who knows how well this show follows the Tempest theme. But making Miranda not actually Prospero's daughter, or some other explanation that makes Prospero irredeemably evil would fit it even less! Suletta remembering the good times with her mother could flow into a redeeming Elnora route which would fit the Tempest.
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Nov 27, 2022 15:35
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Neddy Seagoon posted:I want to throw out a different hypothesis for argument's sake that could be hiding in plain sight based on what we've seen. Suletta's an android and is herself another demonstration of GUND-format technology alongside her sister Aerial, demosntrating a full-body AI-driven GUND platform at human scale. We've seen severe/total body augmentation teased several times in those old GUND-ARM medical tech videos (specifically that shot of someone's body showing a fully-artificial torso under human skin), and this could hypothetically go a long way to explaining specifically why Suletta is so inexperienced in everything except piloting Aerial. What better way to work in space than with a fully-synthetic person who won't be affected by radiation and a lack of gravity for prolonged periods? I'd take it one step further if we're going that route she might still be Eri in an Cyborg body. However I don't think it's likely as Elan drove the aerial without issue as well. Aerial is the more special piece here.
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Nov 27, 2022 15:44
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Mokinokaro posted:I'd take it one step further if we're going that route she might still be Eri in an Cyborg body. However I don't think it's likely as Elan drove the aerial without issue as well. Aerial is the more special piece here. The name of the game here is (hypothetically) demonstrating all aspects of GUND-format being viable technology to wave under Delling's nose, remember. We've had the other half of that shown front-and-center again in just this past episode with the medical technology being the real importance, not the Aerial. The Aerial works, but it's "merely" a demonstration of an external GUND-format platform.
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Nov 27, 2022 15:46
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Fangz posted:??? I don't see how my explanation doesn't show why. I just told you, it's to delay the reveal until a key moment. Having cryosleep or whatever creates a big moment where Suletta stumbles on to a pod with her name on it and realises everything. Then instead of everything being drip fed slowly, all the big moments come at once. How is she going to have this big moment? The pod would be on Mercury. And we saw how she got the school from Mercury, and it didn't involve a cyrosleep pod. Not even to say that it obviously doesn't take 8 years to get to Mercury, or even to there and back. And if it is only going to be a mystery to Suletta, then show the cryopod and mind-wipes so the audience knows and the tension can build over how she is going to react when she finds out, instead of instead making the mystery being how she is 17 years old when Ericht is 25 years old. She's also had no signs of any sort of uncomfortable dreams or anything. And more to the point, your theory means there isn't a mystery. You're both treating this as only a mystery to Suletta, but also a mystery to us with your theory, when your theory only allows it to be a mystery to Suletta. If they wanted to do this sort of thing, they wouldn't have aired the Prologue, since that creates a basis of knowledge that the '21 years ago' reveal was suppose to cause a big upheaval in. The amnesia works a hell of a lot better without the Prologue and the timeline uncertainties. And Prospero being irredeemably evil is actually one of the possible interpretations of the Tempest. A big part of Prospero being redeemable or not rests heavily on how much you sympathize with him and the ends justifying the means, which the play works to make agreeable by showing you what he went through and everything through his biased perspective. Cao Ni Ma posted:I would think that would be pretty crazy to sneak by a medical examination which would be pretty stupid for a school that handles pilots. IIRC the GUND Format as a medical technology seems to be considered fine, it was the use in MS that was the issue, and the medical aspects were collateral of the MS aspects being banned and the main researchers being massacred. Mokinokaro posted:I'd take it one step further if we're going that route she might still be Eri in an Cyborg body. However I don't think it's likely as Elan drove the aerial without issue as well. Aerial is the more special piece here. Aerial is definitely special, agreed.
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Nov 27, 2022 15:53
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Until the show comes down on a definitive answer I will continue with theory crafting. Aerial is a mermaid gundam from Neo Denmark who swims with Lord Varys the Merman.
Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 15:58 on Nov 27, 2022 |
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Nov 27, 2022 15:55
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Kchama posted:Aerial is definitely special, agreed. After the latest episode, I think it's just a big gaudy distraction to hide Suletta if we're continuing this line of thought. Everyone's looking at the Aerial and coveting it as a weapon, as is its intent. This way they're not looking too hard at the girl piloting it, and nobody would think to. Unless you'd watched the Vanadis mission statement and fundamental goal of the GUND-format project and knew their real goal wasn't big robots that fight real good but enhancing the human body so it can survive in an environment it's fundamentally not meant to (ie; Space). The project Prospera was a senior member of, and very much a recipient of its benefits in that arm she flaunts. The Aerial is literally to be seen as the "Cool Robot" meme by everyone, while "medical enhancements" flies over your head unnoticed.
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Nov 27, 2022 16:03
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Kchama posted:IIRC the GUND Format as a medical technology seems to be considered fine, it was the use in MS that was the issue, and the medical aspects were collateral of the MS aspects being banned and the main researchers being massacred. Even if it is acceptable in universe, why would Suletta not know about it? This school is very militaristic, in the military the first thing you do is go through a battery of vaccinations and medical exams. Even something as benign as teeth xrays will show she's a cyborg. And if she did know about it, and is just oblivious about how shocking that is in universe, why make a fuss about Prosperas arm? Oh mom, you and your arm again, I'm like 95% robot.
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Nov 27, 2022 16:14
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If they are really doing Suletta!= Eri, then it's hard to see how this narrative works. There's basically two options here: It's actually not meant to be a twist at all, the mystery is supposed to be something like "where is Eri" or something. In which case a lot of the narrative has been kinda confusing for no reason. They could have just given Suletta a dad or something. I don't think anyone thinks this so I won't say more. Alternatively it's going to be a forthcoming twist reveal. In this case, they need to do work *fast* to establish that Suletta apparently *is* Eri before contradicting it. The power of the reveal depends on how strongly the characters hold that to be the status quo. It would do little good to make Suletta think she's Eri immediately before proving otherwise with "oh but look at this newspaper from 21 years ago". But then there's a bunch of work to be done. Firstly the story has to work against what is currently on the table. We need a convincing explanation why Suletta isn't aware of the 21 years thing, or that it isn't as unambiguous as it looks, so she's not just a dumbdumb. Then we need to deal with the emotional fallout - right now Mio clearly likes Suletta but Suletta isn't doing a lot back. So we need to fit in "Suletta thinks Delling killed her dad" as a whole crisis point that doesn't derail their relationship progress there and then. This would have to happen together with other subplots. Then we need to prime the consequences of Suletta *not* being Eri. Well, who could she be, then? They still have to explain it, be it cloning or a different father or Elnora kidnapping an orphan or whatever. Having that reveal just solve all Suletta's problems would be rather cheap. The answer needs to somehow build on the fact that Suletta already accepted that Delling killed her dad, without retrospectively making it kinda pointless. Ideally it needs to cause even more complications, but without doing stuff like introducing new characters that aren't connected to anyone we've seen. I mean it could happen. But it's hard. If you have a twist, hinting towards the solution is polite, but completely unhinted solutions are okay. See "Murder of Roger Ackroyd". Setting up the counter narrative is non-negotiable.
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Nov 27, 2022 16:19
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Cao Ni Ma posted:Even if it is acceptable in universe, why would Suletta not know about it? This school is very militaristic, in the military the first thing you do is go through a battery of vaccinations and medical exams. Even something as benign as teeth xrays will show she's a cyborg. This very explicitly isn't a Military school though. It's a Corporate school full of companies determined to keep their own secrets even when cooperating. Remember that Elan would've gotten through those same examinations you're assuming Suletta went through if they exited.
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Nov 27, 2022 16:22
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I know it's not the case since someone fluent in japanese could easily verify the number but it would be hilarious if this whole theory crafting thing was due to a translation error or someone on the staff just got their math wrong. Something else I'm interested in seeing will be if the show makes a distinction between military pilot skill and academy pilot skill. Duels are one thing but mass combat is something else. It would be neat if the protagonists get thrown into a battle against experienced Mobile suit pilots with experience outside of controlled duel situations and suddenly the grunt suit machines are extremely dangerous. Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 16:28 on Nov 27, 2022 |
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Nov 27, 2022 16:24
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Neddy Seagoon posted:This very explicitly isn't a Military school though. It's a Corporate school full of companies determined to keep their own secrets even when cooperating. Yeah, but Elan literally has a real version that can just sit in through any of that.
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Nov 27, 2022 16:26
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Arc Hammer posted:I know it's not the case since someone fluent in japanese could easily verify the number but it would be hilarious if this whole theory crafting thing was due to a translation error or someone on the staff just got their math wrong. Yeah I'm hoping we eventually get to see them out in the "real world". I'm guessing it probably won't happen this season since this seems to be all about school shenanigans but hopefully there's a followup.
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Nov 27, 2022 16:31
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Also new theory. The Gund Arm promotional video has a fusion dance in it, so Suletta and Aerial will merge to become Arietta or Sulerial as their mid-season upgrade.
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Nov 27, 2022 16:35
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It would be exceptionally hard to mistranslate 17 as 24.
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Nov 27, 2022 16:39
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Waffleman_ posted:It would be exceptionally hard to mistranslate 17 as 24. Yeah I'm not serious with that one, just that it would be funny.
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Nov 27, 2022 16:46
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https://twitter.com/ippeigyoubu/status/1596782905526603776?s=46&t=k6nZlJIFy474HDPH1U3KCQ
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Nov 27, 2022 16:49
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Scallop Eyes posted:My "definitely not a villain" pose has people asking a lot of questions already answered by the pose I physically cringed when when Prospera was basically gaslighting Suletta about the reason she lied to her about Ariel
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Nov 27, 2022 17:02
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Fangz posted:If they are really doing Suletta!= Eri, then it's hard to see how this narrative works. the consequences of Suletta != Eri has nothing to do with her relationship with Miorine or Deiling, and everything to do with her relationship with her mother and how it would be destroyed once the implied full extent of what Prospera's been doing the past 21 years comes to light, whatever form that might be in i'm not sure if you noticed, but the show has a bit of a theme with children struggling to reconcile their desire for parental love with their parent's/parent figure's actual complete disregard for their child's values and individuality in service of their own selfish goals. i can understand if you missed it, the show's been very subtle about it, what with it only being brought up as the major driving motivation for half the named students in basically every episode (less flippantly and more generally, it's worth remembering that without the prologue episode there's literally nothing suggesting Suletta should have any connection to the events 21 years ago. Suletta being Eri is an implication that exists solely in the audience's perception based on similar character designs being juxtaposed in episode release order, and there's basically no guarantee of that being accurate (see: MGS2 demo)).
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Nov 27, 2022 17:21
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Cao Ni Ma posted:Yeah, but Elan literally has a real version that can just sit in through any of that. You're still building an assumption on something we would've seen happen on-screen. We've seen Suletta pretty much straight from the moment she arrived on-station. No examination of any kind, even inferred.
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Nov 27, 2022 17:40
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Suletta and eri being separate would have made the entire characterization in the prologue loving pointless. They’re the same person and the only mystery there is how, not whether actually suletta is a completely separate person who just happens to look exactly like an aged up version of the completely separate character from the prologue who has an identical sibling relationship with the AI robot from the prologue, which is - coincidentally - almost certainly the same robot, since it’s been hit on multiple times that Prospera simply doesn’t have the resources to build a new one.
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Nov 27, 2022 17:48
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It would be really weird writing to have the prologue accidentally make the inference that there will be some crisis point in the core relationship in the show (of Delling killing the MC's Dad) and then just defuse that by having two other characters having a conversation off the side and say the wrong number of years. It'd be like having Anakin die in Ep 3 and it be revealed that Darth Vader is actually a different character, Jedi Master Steve.
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Nov 27, 2022 17:53
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Arc Hammer posted:Until the show comes down on a definitive answer I will continue with theory crafting. Aerial is a mermaid gundam from Neo Denmark who swims with Lord Varys the Merman. And built in a Brazillian-themed amusement park. 
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Nov 27, 2022 17:56
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Fangz posted:It would be really weird writing to have the prologue accidentally make the inference that there will be some crisis point in the core relationship in the show (of Delling killing the MC's Dad) and then just defuse that by having two other characters having a conversation off the side and say the wrong number of years. It'd be like having Anakin die in Ep 3 and it be revealed that Darth Vader is actually a different character, Jedi Master Steve. You're looking at the wrong dynamic - This is about Delling killing Prospera's husband and destroying her life's work. Everything we see is encapsulated in that scheme. The grin reveal here isn't likely gonna be that Delling killed Suletta's dad, that's just a side-effect, it's more likely to be a reveal of just how far Prospera has gone to effect her scheme and what's been done to her daughter to make it happen. Neddy Seagoon fucked around with this message at 18:08 on Nov 27, 2022 |
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Nov 27, 2022 17:57
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Neddy Seagoon posted:You're looking at the wrong dynamic - This is about Delling killing Prospera's husband and destroying her life's work. Everything we see is encapsulated in that scheme. Why is Delling only killing Prospera's husband an improvement on Delling killing Prospera's husband AND Suletta's dad? That way all parts of the narrative connect together. With the Prologue in, we've got Suletta's relationship with her mother as something that was once loving but now manipulative. Turning that into one where Prospera has only seen Suletta as a tool is a pretty big downgrade in terms of narrative complexity. (And contradicts her character in the short story too)
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Nov 27, 2022 18:06
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Suletta could be the first example of a true GUND-transhuman where the separation between the body and the tech is so subtle you wouldn't notice a difference with a basic medical exam. I'm thinking along the lines of Extremis or Senator Armstrong type nanites where a person appears unmodified while having the same if not better benefits of traditional cyborg implants/replacements. Aerial is definitely special too, and maybe that's the whole point: the sisters are examples of a matured GUND application at human and mobile suit scale. What I'm saying is that Suletta's blood is full of microscale bits and funnels. Tekne fucked around with this message at 18:10 on Nov 27, 2022 |
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Nov 27, 2022 18:08
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I saw an interesting theory about what the Curse of the Gundam actually entails. It's not that Gundams kill their pilots or that they're abomination war machines. The curse isn't even that everyone wants to hop on the train to make their own gundams. The curse is that people cannot see past the weapon and embrace the potential of the underlying technology and that blindness is rooted in fear. It's literally the "Wow cool robot!" Meme Delling was a war veteran who saw firsthand how horrible it was fighting against drones and machinery and that coloured his views of future technological advances that would lead to further conflict. His fear of the future led him to take drastic action and destroy Vanadis and Ochs Earth so that the Gundam tech could not be used to hurt more people. And then a few years later his wife dies, possibly because of health complications brought on by living in space. And he realizes too late that the power of Gund tech could have saved her, and he's responsible for the technology being destroyed. All because he was afraid. It doesn't stop him from being a villain because he's still an rear end in a top hat who doubled down with the crackdown on Gundams via the Cathedra agreement, but as we've seen pride seems to run in the family.
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Nov 27, 2022 18:10
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Some things to add to the discussion: Aside from the Norse mythology themes to some of the names (Folkvangr, Vanadis - respectively the domain and alternative name for Freya), the short story "Cradle Planet" names the space colony that Suletta grew up on as "PebiColombo 23". That's obviously a reference to BepiColombo, an ongoing probe mission which will arrive at Mercury in 2025. The real-life probe has a subunit called Mio. Is this where Miorine got her name?Arc Hammer posted:Also new theory. The Gund Arm promotional video has a fusion dance in it, so Suletta and Aerial will merge to become Arietta or Sulerial as their mid-season upgrade. I hope this is some kind of foreshadowing, haha.
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Nov 27, 2022 18:13
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https://twitter.com/MechaGirlOTD/status/1596912542362001408?t=Qd5D72SRRIBOxD43FC0gjQ&s=19
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Nov 27, 2022 18:17
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I hope the mecha sized angle grinder is foreshadowing.
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Nov 27, 2022 18:19
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Fangz posted:I hope the mecha sized angle grinder is foreshadowing. After the giant hedge clippers in IBO no weapons are off the table.
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Nov 27, 2022 18:24
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Arc Hammer posted:After the giant hedge clippers in IBO no weapons are off the table.
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Nov 27, 2022 18:27
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Tekne posted:I would like to see MS scale jaws of life, no, ork power klaws. I'm telling you we need a Mobike Suit Gundork show.
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Nov 27, 2022 18:33
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Neddy Seagoon posted:You're still building an assumption on something we would've seen happen on-screen. We've seen Suletta pretty much straight from the moment she arrived on-station. No examination of any kind, even inferred. We also didnt see Suletta conduct any actual school work till EP4, that doesn't mean she wasn't attending classes before that. Its mundane, not worth showing when you can assume it happens. Having a character suddenly discover they are cyborgs requires very hard lifting from the story because a lot of mundane things we take for granted suddenly becomes hindrances for that suspension of disbelief. Best way to do it would be that they are "born" a cyborg and don't know any better, also have them be operational for very little time because the longer they are unaware the less believable it becomes or they have some cognitive blocks that prevent them from realizing it. Or literally NANOMACHINES which is just magic with a coat of science paint. For some reason I'm remembering Qualia because they literally had to have reality warping powers to make the robot reveal believable in universe. Arc Hammer posted:I saw an interesting theory about what the Curse of the Gundam actually entails. I actually like this theory a lot, and it fits better with the timeline for Delling.
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Nov 27, 2022 18:37
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My current theory is that Eri is Suletta but Eri is also Aeriel and each of the funnels are also Eri. In fact, Prospera is also Eri who has taken over her mother's role in the company.
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Nov 27, 2022 19:00
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Arc Hammer posted:I'm telling you we need a Mobike Suit Gundork show.
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Nov 27, 2022 19:00
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Hellbore posted:Some keen-eyed viewers pointed out that Dr. Cardo's video was dated as A.S. 101, 21 years before the current date. So add another point towards the timeline shenanigans. Isn't it a point against the timeline shenanigans? It's reasonable to assume that the video was made before the technology had been built into enough mobile suits to develop a widespread reputation for killing its users. It means that the 21 years refers to when they started developing GUND Format into heavy machinery, not when the whole project was terminated violently. In fact, what if the 21-year grudge isn't the slaughter of the Gundam development teams, but rather the GUND developers being forced into weapons development in the first place? Their groundbreaking medical technology being absorbed into the military-industrial complex as a powerful weapon, which was then suppressed simply because it killed its users almost as quickly as the users killed their targets? It wouldn't be surprising if their regrets and resentments went further back than that final bloody day. This episode drives real hard on two things: the fact that GUND was originally a medical technology whose creators wanted to use it to save lives rather than take them, and the fact that the big megacorporations REALLY wanted to use it for weapons and were willing to use both a big carrot and an even bigger stick to get their hands on GUND weaponry. That conflict is only just now being clearly established, but I suspect it's going to play a big part in the next few episodes, and it wouldn't be surprising if the original GUND developers suffered through that same conflict without having the independence or youthful optimism of GUND-Arm Inc. Heck, just look at Belmeria Winston. She's continuing to work on Gundams because she sees it as the only way to continue GUND Format development in pursuit of that original ideal of using it to help people...but she's quite visibly unhappy with how she's spending that time turning poor people into guinea pigs who will either die from piloting the Gundam too much or be disposed of when they're no longer useful, all for the sake of helping a weapons company build better weapons. She tries to put it out of her mind, but she's quite sensitive to being reminded about it.
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Nov 27, 2022 19:12
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Vizuyos posted:Isn't it a point against the timeline shenanigans? It's reasonable to assume that the video was made before the technology had been built into enough mobile suits to develop a widespread reputation for killing its users. It means that the 21 years refers to when they started developing GUND Format into heavy machinery, not when the whole project was terminated violently. The problem is, Prospera explicitly calls Delling "the man who supressed the Vanadis Incident 21 years ago". That has to be the prologue incident. Also nobody seemed to be mad for working on a Gundam.
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Nov 27, 2022 19:25
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RoyalScion posted:https://twitter.com/G_Witch_M/status/1596783384411492353?s=20&t=ZSGqEAGL_LtGM7U2BsCgiQ This still cracks me up, especially if this "my first video production school project" production was actually sent to all their investors 
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Nov 27, 2022 19:56
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where did they get a big enough green screen
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Nov 27, 2022 20:09
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