(Thread IKs:
Nuns with Guns)
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Bakeneko posted:I agree with this in theory but I don’t think anyone is doing that here. Dan certainly wasn’t. He calls out stupid ideas and the people who peddle them but he wasn’t singling those people out as uniquely stupid. I should point out I'm not disagreeing with Dan's video, I think it's great. However to me there's a large difference in both effect and intent between making a widely distributed video about conspiracy theories and the people who believe them, even one that is highly critical of those who believe in conspiracy theories themselves, and posting on a relatively private forum things to the effect of "isn't it funny how stupid flat earthers are?"
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Nov 29, 2022 16:23
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Farm Frenzy posted:I think its cool that dan is willing to express contempt for something or someone without attaching a hyper defensive "it is ok if you like this. I am not endorsing harassment." disclaimer. it feels like he trusts me to be an adult. Doug is presumably already being harassed by anyone inclined to do so, while the Q people and flat earthers are probably too dumb to notice it
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Nov 29, 2022 16:24
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They have fallen for a conspiracy theory, which is indeed something that everyone could do, but they are also stupid, because flat earth is a very stupid conspiracy theory
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Nov 29, 2022 16:28
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Dire Lemming posted:I should point out I'm not disagreeing with Dan's video, I think it's great. However to me there's a large difference in both effect and intent between making a widely distributed video about conspiracy theories and the people who believe them, even one that is highly critical of those who believe in conspiracy theories themselves, and posting on a relatively private forum things to the effect of "isn't it funny how stupid flat earthers are?" You ever considered that maybe it's not the flat earthers who are stupid, but instead it might be you for continuing this dumbass argument pleading for compassion to the antisemetic reactionaries? Nuns with Guns fucked around with this message at 16:52 on Nov 29, 2022 |
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Nov 29, 2022 16:35
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DoctorWhat posted:It's a choice! It's a choice to embrace the catharsis of cruelty and autocracy and fascist policy ahead of human dignity. It's always a choice. Yeah you're right the flat earth qanon people have chosen that.
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Nov 29, 2022 16:36
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i think it's very funny how stupid flat earthers are
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Nov 29, 2022 16:45
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Nuns with Guns posted:You ever consider that maybe it's not the flat earthers who are stupid, but instead it might be you for continuing this dumbass argument pleading for compassion to the antisemetic reactionaries? I'm not pleading for compassion? Conspiracy theorists should be opposed at pretty much every opportunity and called out for their bullshit. But I don't think their existence is funny, I think it sucks actually, particularly because of said anti-Semitism.
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Nov 29, 2022 16:53
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What possible reason besides compassion could you have for not making fun of someone? Just a real spoil sport here.
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Nov 29, 2022 16:56
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Having recently dealt with one of those people who proudly say they are "conspiracy analysts" there is nothing else to do but point and laugh because they are so aggressively proud that they have figured it out they will tell you within the first 15 minutes of an unrelated conversation.
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Nov 29, 2022 17:01
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i do not and cannot sympathize with people whose crazy conspiratorial thinking does harm to others. you know who i sympathize with?? weirdly, strangely, it's the people they do harm to. it's the family members that have to put up with them. gently caress these people. i can lend my kindness and my understanding out to those who actually want it
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Nov 29, 2022 17:07
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Dire Lemming posted:I'm not pleading for compassion? Conspiracy theorists should be opposed at pretty much every opportunity and called out for their bullshit. But I don't think their existence is funny, I think it sucks actually, particularly because of said anti-Semitism. All these flat earth videos are calling out their bullshit. Dan's thesis that they can't dissuaded is a multi-step unpacking of how the actual alleged flat-ness of the earth is only a tangential feature of a wider ideology of flat earthers, who see us as being in a Biblical fish bowl. Where denying the Earth is flat is denying the truth of god and of the very-soon-to-happen Biblical end times. They think the dark manipulators (Jews) are hiding this from the world through their control of mass media and global policy making. It's only functionally different from straight Qanon in that the reactionary bloodletting they thirst for is more heavily tinged in Evangelical Biblical apocalyptic language, though even Qanon allows for those interpretations, which why so many of them have been absorbed by it. I've already said you're welcome to study them or rebut them, or heck, inform other people of the dangers of their ideologies beyond broad kookiness. (You know, like all these dang videos are doing.) It's just not going to save most of them from their own desire to create a neo-Christian fascist autocracy.
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Nov 29, 2022 17:09
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Tommy tallarico
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Nov 29, 2022 17:09
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someone believing the earth is flat or that obama is a muslim communist from kenya is funny and you should laugh at them
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Nov 29, 2022 17:11
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Terrible Opinions posted:What possible reason besides compassion could you have for not making fun of someone? Just a real spoil sport here. I dunno, decorum I guess you could call it? This started as me trying to articulate the reason why making fun of conspiracy theorists can feel weird that isn't misplaced compassion or conflict aversion. This is probably just because I've done a bunch of research into them myself for uni work, but jokes about conspiracy theorists feel like a lesser degree of jokes about serial killers, or even the same degree, it's not like people haven't been injured or killed for these beliefs.
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Nov 29, 2022 17:11
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I dunno, I'd argue that it's very likely that people have been killed over the belief that Obama is a Muslim Communist from Kenya.
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Nov 29, 2022 17:15
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Serial killers are dumb and it's good to make fun of them as well.
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Nov 29, 2022 17:17
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Terrible Opinions posted:Serial killers are dumb and it's good to make fun of them as well.
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Nov 29, 2022 17:17
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Dire Lemming posted:I dunno, decorum I guess you could call it? This started as me trying to articulate the reason why making fun of conspiracy theorists can feel weird that isn't misplaced compassion or conflict aversion. This is probably just because I've done a bunch of research into them myself for uni work, but jokes about conspiracy theorists feel like a lesser degree of jokes about serial killers, or even the same degree, it's not like people haven't been injured or killed for these beliefs. I think there's bigger problems with how serial killers are treated in society these days than jokes about them, and it's not related to the problems with dismissing flat earthers.
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Nov 29, 2022 17:18
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You can totally sympathize and pity people who go down the conspiracy theory rabbit hole and come out the other end as horrible reactionaries. It's a system that failed them. A poor education system, poor mental health outreach, unfulfilling labor, lies about hard work and success, it's no wonder why they have a stern belief in this broken system so when they try to do everything right and still get no where it must be something else that's wrong and these are the answers they find. Doesn't excuse the kind of poo poo they get into at the end of all of it and start reinforcing that trash by repeating and spreading it but some of these people didn't start out this way. Basically every family needs a communist in it to set the record straight.
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Nov 29, 2022 17:21
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the problem with serial killers and true crime is the exploitation of the victims you should lol at serial killers for being massive losers because it ruins the mystique of serial killers that makes them so popular for documentaries in the first place
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Nov 29, 2022 17:23
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The 7th Guest posted:i think it's very funny how stupid flat earthers are
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Nov 29, 2022 17:23
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why was ed gein so invested in discussions about serial killers? because he had skin in the game
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Nov 29, 2022 17:24
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The 7th Guest posted:why was ed gein so invested in discussions about serial killers? because he had skin in the game lol
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Nov 29, 2022 17:25
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Nuns with Guns posted:I think there's bigger problems with how serial killers are treated in society these days than jokes about them, and it's not related to the problems with dismissing flat earthers. Sure I agree, but yes it's also not related, why bring it up? Even disregarding the current true crime/serial killer fetishism surely you see how making light of a serial killer, with real victims who have surviving families, is going to be off-putting to some people. When confronted with the fact that conspiracy theories also have victims, it's possible to feel the same way about making light of them.
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Nov 29, 2022 17:32
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People do stupid poo poo and start believing in stupid poo poo for a whole load of various stupid reasons, some of which perhaps could warrant a bit of sympathy in that "well, sad story" way. BUT you can't hold everyone's hand through the poo poo and there's only so much you can do. Otherwise...I dunno, if you bang the decorum drum all day and want everyone to just try and get along about all of this no matter what then you kind of end up turning into Boogie, and that's worse than just about anything.
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Nov 29, 2022 17:32
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Dire Lemming posted:Sure I agree, but yes it's also not related, why bring it up? Even disregarding the current true crime/serial killer fetishism surely you see how making light of a serial killer, with real victims who have surviving families, is going to be off-putting to some people. When confronted with the fact that conspiracy theories also have victims, it's possible to feel the same way about making light of them.
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Nov 29, 2022 17:39
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Dire Lemming posted:Sure I agree, but yes it's also not related, why bring it up? Even disregarding the current true crime/serial killer fetishism surely you see how making light of a serial killer, with real victims who have surviving families, is going to be off-putting to some people. When confronted with the fact that conspiracy theories also have victims, it's possible to feel the same way about making light of them. You brought it up. You mentioned making fun of serial killers is the same kind of problem as making fun of flat earthers. I don't think it's comparable at all. Victims of serial killers and victims of... flat earthing? Aren't the same thing at all. There's certainly people who have been murdered by conspiracy theorists, but most of the time the biggest victims are friends or family cutting ties with a loved one who has gone too crazy. They have more in common with the family of the serial killers than the families of the victims of serial killers. The problem with serial killers is the way the killers are fetishized. The way they're treated as inhuman monsters to fill true crime content and crime dramas on TV or in movies. Serial killers are created by a lot of tragic circumstances loving people (mostly men) up. The notorious ones were "successful" because they were white guys in the US or Britain who cops wouldn't investigate, were buddies with, or just didn't care about. There's plenty there to talk about on numerous levels but this is all absurdly off track. Like yeah, congrats, we've discovered once again the patriarchy and capitalism suck.
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Nov 29, 2022 17:45
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Nuns with Guns posted:You brought it up. You mentioned making fun of serial killers is the same kind of problem as making fun of flat earthers. I don't think it's comparable at all. Victims of serial killers and victims of... flat earthing? Aren't the same thing at all. There's certainly people who have been murdered by conspiracy theorists, but most of the time the biggest victims are friends or family cutting ties with a loved one who has gone too crazy. They have more in common with the family of the serial killers than the families of the victims of serial killers. You know what, agree to disagree. Except the part about the problem with serial killers, I think a major problem with serial killers is the actual serial killing personally.
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Nov 29, 2022 18:15
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Dire Lemming posted:You know what, agree to disagree. Except the part about the problem with serial killers, I think a major problem with serial killers is the actual serial killing personally. Go back in time, get a severed frozen dick out of Jefferey Dahmer's freezer and gently caress yourself with it.
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Nov 29, 2022 18:25
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Nuns with Guns posted:The problem with serial killers is the way the killers are fetishized. The way they're treated as inhuman monsters to fill true crime content and crime dramas on TV or in movies. Serial killers are created by a lot of tragic circumstances loving people (mostly men) up. The notorious ones were "successful" because they were white guys in the US or Britain who cops wouldn't investigate, were buddies with, or just didn't care about. There's plenty there to talk about on numerous levels but this is all absurdly off track. Like yeah, congrats, we've discovered once again the patriarchy and capitalism suck.
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Nov 29, 2022 18:33
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Dire Lemming posted:It's why this yeah i guess if you completely change the context, subject, and purpose of what i said, it could look pretty bad. durrr lol
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Nov 29, 2022 18:34
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Dire Lemming posted:You know what, agree to disagree. Except the part about the problem with serial killers, I think a major problem with serial killers is the actual serial killing personally. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aj1ScIBpUq0
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Nov 29, 2022 18:36
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a self-selected group of conspiracy theorists is not the same as the trans/NB community jesus christ.
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Nov 29, 2022 18:36
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there it is
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Nov 29, 2022 18:39
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Dire Lemming posted:My point is that dismissing conspiracy theorists as people who are just stupid and of a different kind to us normal people is a bad mindset. You are not immune to conspiracy theories, you are not immune to reactionary thinking. sorry im still catching up but its legitimately funny to suggest that all conspiracy and all reactionary behavior is exactly the same. like there isnt a gulf of difference between bush did 9/11 and "the earth has parts where you can just fall off"
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Nov 29, 2022 18:40
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fun hater posted:sorry im still catching up but its legitimately funny to suggest that all conspiracy and all reactionary behavior is exactly the same. like there isnt a gulf of difference between bush did 9/11 and "the earth has parts where you can just fall off" bush did do 9/11 though. that's a fact.
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Nov 29, 2022 18:42
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MacheteZombie posted:bush did do 9/11 though. that's a fact. exactly
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Nov 29, 2022 18:46
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immortal technique was right about picking up lin manuel miranda and stuffing him bodily into a garbage can in high school and he was right about george w bush knocking down the towers
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Nov 29, 2022 18:48
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Serial killers are really stupid people. The most mediocre lamest humans possible which is why they murder.
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Nov 29, 2022 18:50
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CelticPredator posted:Serial killers are really stupid people. The most mediocre lamest humans possible which is why they murder. You can't call serial killers stupid, you are not immune to becoming a serial killer. This us/them divide is what's wrong with this country
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Nov 29, 2022 18:51
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