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Two Tone Shoes posted:It's funny how we saw the world through Gon and Killua's eyes for so long, and the people around them responding to how they're one in a billion geniuses with Nen. The absolute fastest, most absurd rise in nen capability and mastery people have ever seen.
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Nov 29, 2022 14:45
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Yeah but the complexity and capability of Kurapika's abilities, even if you ignore the ones that only affect spiders, are still pretty absurd. He's like a mini Chrollo.
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Nov 29, 2022 14:48
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I kind of forgot everything about this arc except this page.
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Nov 29, 2022 14:50
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No Wave posted:I kind of forgot everything about this arc except this page. Lol again, and lol when I remember Biscuit is like 60 or something now and can get manipulated like this still
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Nov 29, 2022 14:52
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Nov 29, 2022 14:57
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its not her fault musclegirls never took off in hxhworld
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Nov 29, 2022 15:09
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ThatBasqueGuy posted:its not her fault musclegirls never took off in hxhworld There is at least one man of culture around!
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Nov 29, 2022 15:15
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Two Tone Shoes posted:It's funny how we saw the world through Gon and Killua's eyes for so long, and the people around them responding to how they're one in a billion geniuses with Nen. The absolute fastest, most absurd rise in nen capability and mastery people have ever seen. A point that gets made occasionally is that it's not that Kurapika is really good at nen (though Emperor Time is p busted), but rather that his strong conviction leads him to stack a bunch of incredibly dangerous conditions onto his hatsu. Gon's nen basics were really strong, and the only drawback on his hatsu was that he had to yell the attack name. It only became self-destructive when he decided "I don't care if I die as long as I take that particular fucker down with me", something that works really well in the world of nen. And Kurapika has built basically his entire ability around that same concept from the beginning.
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Nov 29, 2022 15:26
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With nen, it's really all about the build.
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Nov 29, 2022 15:38
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Vizuyos posted:A point that gets made occasionally is that it's not that Kurapika is really good at nen (though Emperor Time is p busted), but rather that his strong conviction leads him to stack a bunch of incredibly dangerous conditions onto his hatsu. Yeah he has some really insane conditions on p much everything he uses, Emperor Time literally kills him when it's active. He's the definition of pouring all your eggs into one basket
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Nov 29, 2022 15:54
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No Wave posted:well yeah, everyone's gonna die at some point in their lives!
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Nov 29, 2022 15:56
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some much sooner than others
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Nov 29, 2022 16:01
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lih posted:one of the reasons this arc has been so good is that kurapika is for once a little bit in over his head and can't resolve everything with his op powers, it's a much more interesting scenario yeah i like that a seemingly minor inconvenience in terms of the grander plot led to him just casually shaving ~5 years off his life. the situation really is not good for him lol the troupe are definitely done for this arc one way or another. too many people gunning for them and neoHisoka is not loving around
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Nov 29, 2022 16:04
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Vizuyos posted:A point that gets made occasionally is that it's not that Kurapika is really good at nen (though Emperor Time is p busted), but rather that his strong conviction leads him to stack a bunch of incredibly dangerous conditions onto his hatsu. Yeah but that's just how Nen is. Kurapika grasped this and applied it at a level better than the vast, vast majority of hunters we've seen to this point.
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Nov 29, 2022 16:08
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Not to be a racist but maybe the kurta clan is that cracked and jacked. He is a super duper specialist who pops off when his eyes turn pink.
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Nov 29, 2022 16:23
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Two Tone Shoes posted:Yeah but the complexity and capability of Kurapika's abilities, even if you ignore the ones that only affect spiders, are still pretty absurd. He's like a mini Chrollo. The real takeaway from this is that conjuration might be the best category for people that want to have multiple abilities even if they stem from the same theme. Kurapika does need specialization to make his own skillset really work but I can only think of transmutation matching conjuration in terms of variety when looking at someone like Morel who has a variety of skills he can deploy via his smoke or Killua having multiple uses for his electric aura.
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Nov 29, 2022 16:25
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Conjurer is the most cracked nen type because it’s literally just “stand user” tbh, it’s just you have to attach detrimental restrictive stipulations to your move that are easily worked around relative to the benefit of being a stand user.
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Nov 29, 2022 16:36
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Two Tone Shoes posted:Yeah but that's just how Nen is. Kurapika grasped this and applied it at a level better than the vast, vast majority of hunters we've seen to this point. their respective teachers inform how they end up using nen pretty notably too. i forget if kurapika's teacher was also a graduate of the bisky netero school, but wing was, and so he has that holistic approach to nen. kurapika's teacher basically tells him "yeah you can do these restrictions" and that's all the guy fixates on from that pt forward
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Nov 29, 2022 16:44
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Brought To You By posted:The real takeaway from this is that conjuration might be the best category for people that want to have multiple abilities even if they stem from the same theme. Kurapika does need specialization to make his own skillset really work but I can only think of transmutation matching conjuration in terms of variety when looking at someone like Morel who has a variety of skills he can deploy via his smoke or Killua having multiple uses for his electric aura. I think part of what makes Conjuration useful is that it's adjacent to Transmutation, so despite it being theoretically impossible to Conjure "impossible" things, Conjuration abilities can contain an element of Transmutation to give Conjured objects bizarre properties. Having said that, Conjuration suffers from being opposite Emission and non-adjacent to Manipulation and Enhancement, while the adjacency to Specialization is only useful to a few lucky people like Kurapica. A lot of Conjurers don't do very well in direct fights; look at Kortopi and Padaille. Kite had a directly combat-applicable Conjuration ability, but it was dangerously luck-based. On the other hand, Hinrigh shows that with a cleverly-chosen and cleverly-applied ability, Conjurers can do quite well. Silver2195 fucked around with this message at 17:03 on Nov 29, 2022 |
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Nov 29, 2022 16:59
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Silver2195 posted:I think part of what makes Conjuration useful is that it's adjacent to Transmutation, so despite it being theoretically impossible to Conjure "impossible" things, Conjuration abilities can contain an element of Transmutation to give Conjured objects bizarre properties. The special abilities of conjured objects is described as just what they can do. Outside of Pain Packer I don't think we've seen many abilities that really uses conjuration and transmutation simultaneously. Even someone like Hisoka has separate transmutation and conjuration powers. And Machi's power description stated that transmuters aren't great at emissions which is why her string is so weak once detached, but Hisoka seems just fine using remote bungee gum capable of restraining humans running in the opposite direction before rebounding them backwards. I think it's not as clearcut as having a 40% affinity and suffering that much. Even without restrictions I think there are characters who just trained hard enough to be able to leverage opposing categories much better than Kurapika can. Morel is again, my example as his proficiency with transmutation lets him shapeshift his smoke aura into anything he can imagine pretty much even though he's a manipulator. But the key to that might be that shapeshifting even at that level might still be just a middle tier transmutation function at worst but shapeshifting numbers and other shapes is level 1. Hinrigh likewise has enough training in emissions to imbue his constructs with enough aura to make his pigeons bulletproof on top of them apparently having metalic properties. But also enough strength in ren to tank a bullet with no problem himself during the firefight showing good skill with enhancement. But he's more than likely had years of training like Morel whereas Kurapika only had 6 months prior to York Shin. But you are correct in echoing what Izunov said, conjurers have a hard time being combat viable overall but the failing of someone like Padaille was not ability but intelligence and overall skill. [Fistful of Weapons] might not have been a top tier ability but If Padaille had enough training to be capable of faster movement he would have killed Hinrigh right there and then. Problem is he's been a nen user for less than a week.
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Nov 29, 2022 17:22
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Silver2195 posted:There’s a price for all that, though. I think Dowsing Chain is the only one he can use without Emperor Time, and Steal Chain can get him stuck in Emperor Time if he isn’t careful. Plus by developing so many techniques so early, he’s cut off his potential to develop, unlike Gon and Killua who gradually got stronger (until Gon sacrificed his potential even more dramatically). So if I trust the hxh wiki, it's the other way around, all except one can be used without ET, Judgement Chain needs Emperor time, but well, it's only a few seconds to do it. Holy Chain (the healing one) works without ET but the effect will be lovely, to really heal in seconds and be useful in combat, he needs ET. Two Tone Shoes posted:It's funny how we saw the world through Gon and Killua's eyes for so long, and the people around them responding to how they're one in a billion geniuses with Nen. The absolute fastest, most absurd rise in nen capability and mastery people have ever seen. In part is what some people have said, Gon and Killua were also a bit fooling around, and being kids, while Kurapica had a life-consuming goal in front of him, so he worked towards that goal. In fact I think at some moment Wing or Biskie said it was better on the long run for them to take their time. It's also possible than nen training has some subtleties where adults are better at than children. But also... as smart as Togashi is, I don't think he plan all details in HxH in advance. He still didn't have a clear idea of what should be the normal nen power level, nor how hatsus worked specifically or how many people had. I think he just gave him several because he had the idea of the character using ET to change his nen affinity and take people by surprise. Years later, with nen more solidified, it seems clear the normal thing is to have one or two abilities, where users try to use their ability in creative ways or to design a single ability that by nature is versatile.
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Nov 29, 2022 17:24
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Two Tone Shoes posted:Yeah but that's just how Nen is. Kurapika grasped this and applied it at a level better than the vast, vast majority of hunters we've seen to this point. It's not that he grasped it better than most hunters, it's that most hunters are a little more attached to living than he is. Being extremely willing to die can give you very strong nen, but the reason most hunters don't do that isn't because they haven't figured that out, it's because that dying tends to have a fair few drawbacks. Nen lends itself really well to "I live only for vengeance" type poo poo, but that's not actually a great lifestyle. There's more important things out there than just being a strong fighter. Gon was able to fight at a high level but he was also able to have wacky fun adventures doing basically whatever the hell he wanted. Kurapika doesn't really have that.
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Nov 29, 2022 17:37
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In a series that's really fun and creative Gon's special move was absolutely pathetic...
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Nov 29, 2022 17:43
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No Wave posted:In a series that's really fun and creative Gon's "nen ability" was absolutely pathetic... It fits his character well and while it is basic Com showed that he has a lot of mind games he can play with it. Creativity is good but people forget that raw loving power goes a long long way in the HxH universe.
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Nov 29, 2022 17:46
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Brought To You By posted:
Morel is a manipulator. He emits bubbles of Aura that he coats smoke onto that he can freely manipulate.
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Nov 29, 2022 18:07
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Brought To You By posted:
Are they even the same theme? They all use chains as 'medium' but imo that conjured effect isn't a theme, it's just something that appears when summoned. The effects don't have a theme: one heals, another steals nen aura, another applies zetsu to Troupe members, another applies conditions or kills its victims, and the last one is a truth detector. I think there is a meme that saying 'Conjuration is Specialization but with extra steps'. And you know, it's true, Conjurers can do any effect they want, they just have to make up a conjured object to summon first, then said object have whatever magical property they want. IMO the effect should be more limited to the nature of the summoned object shape, so it's ok if your power is to summon a chain that is able to capture criminals and apply zetsu to them, but some of the other powers are... less related to chains that I'd like.
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Nov 29, 2022 18:17
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Kurapika hasn't appeared in the manga for over four years now. Feel old yet?
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Nov 29, 2022 18:31
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Turin Turambar posted:Are they even the same theme? They all use chains as 'medium' but imo that conjured effect isn't a theme, it's just something that appears when summoned. The effects don't have a theme: one heals, another steals nen aura, another applies zetsu to Troupe members, another applies conditions or kills its victims, and the last one is a truth detector. Idk, the abilities seem very related to the chains insofar as the reason he even came up with chains was because he wanted to restrain the phantom troupe with them. The dolphin stand I guess isn’t but the other four very much fit with the idea with going on a hunt for the spiders and it’s just that he didn’t need to attach a particular stipulation to some of them to achieve the desired effects.
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Nov 29, 2022 18:36
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MonsterEnvy posted:Morel is a manipulator. He emits bubbles of Aura that he coats smoke onto that he can freely manipulate. Deep purple is just one application that uses an emitted core because it allows them to operate on autopilot. Otherwise it's all remote control. Not only that but his ability is describes as using smoky aura and he can also use it as his en like he did during the palace raid. His ability doesn't make sense with real smoke given his pipe works underwater, he's never seen lighting anything, and he's generated smoke without inhaling through the pipe multiple times. Transmutation is the only category that makes sense for his ability on top of manipulation and emissions since he can also re-appropriate his smoke to reclaim that aura. The fact that Knuckle's says that Morel has a huge reserve of aura also supports this since his smoke more often than not is dispersed so he'd need a lot of aura to be able to produce so much. Turin Turambar posted:Are they even the same theme? They all use chains as 'medium' but imo that conjured effect isn't a theme, it's just something that appears when summoned. The effects don't have a theme: one heals, another steals nen aura, another applies zetsu to Troupe members, another applies conditions or kills its victims, and the last one is a truth detector.
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Nov 29, 2022 18:42
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Morel can also hit people really hard and hold his breath for 1 billion years (enhancement) which only leaves Conjuration as the thing he can't do. Since conjuration is the opposite on the wheel from emission and enhancement that indicates to me that Morel is an Emitter.
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Nov 29, 2022 18:48
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Turin Turambar posted:I think there is a meme that saying 'Conjuration is Specialization but with extra steps'. And you know, it's true, Conjurers can do any effect they want, they just have to make up a conjured object to summon first, then said object have whatever magical property they want. IMO the effect should be more limited to the nature of the summoned object shape, so it's ok if your power is to summon a chain that is able to capture criminals and apply zetsu to them, but some of the other powers are... less related to chains that I'd like. Remember that Kurapica is an actual Specialist when he uses most of these techniques. Also, aside from Kurapica, Conjurers do seem fairly limited by the summoned object shape (e.g., Shizuku sucks things up with her vacuum cleaner). (Plus in Shizuku's case, it's possible the extradimensional storage aspect is itself a form of Conjuration applied in reverse, just as Meruem absorbing the aura of others falls under Emission. This would also explain why Knov is listed as a Conjurer in a databook.)
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Nov 29, 2022 19:00
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Silver2195 posted:Remember that Kurapica is an actual Specialist when he uses most of these techniques. Also, aside from Kurapica, Conjurers do seem fairly limited by the summoned object shape (e.g., Shizuku sucks things up with her vacuum cleaner). (Plus in Shizuku's case, it's possible the extradimensional storage aspect is itself a form of Conjuration applied in reverse, just as Meruem absorbing the aura of others falls under Emission. This would also explain why Knov is listed as a Conjurer in a databook.) Knov was always stated as a Conjurer. He conjures an extra dimensional building, and can place and open entrances to it.
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Nov 29, 2022 19:21
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Knov got listed as an emitter by Togashi during the art exhibit. That he also placed an emphasis in this arc on emitters having teleportation abilities means Knov was just that good at conjuration as well to be able to create something that big. Morel was hard confirmed as a Manipulator but he's definitely a well rounded nen user like Feitan that uses a lot of categories himself.
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Nov 29, 2022 19:56
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Brought To You By posted:Knov got listed as an emitter by Togashi during the art exhibit. That he also placed an emphasis in this arc on emitters having teleportation abilities means Knov was just that good at conjuration as well to be able to create something that big. Morel was hard confirmed as a Manipulator but he's definitely a well rounded nen user like Feitan that uses a lot of categories himself. I think he mixed up Knov and Knuckle. As before this they were stated to be the opposites of what they are.
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Nov 29, 2022 20:25
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MonsterEnvy posted:I think he mixed up Knov and Knuckle. As before this they were stated to be the opposites of what they are. I see. I'm still really confused by Knuckle's being a conjurer honestly. Like, I can accept someone like Ikalgo is an enhancer despite his only nen ability being a manipulation one (and a fascinating one at that given he can use dead people's powers) and it's just proof that nen users don't have to use their base category to be viable. But how in the world is Potclean invulnerable to damage if it's conjured and why don't more conjurers do this? Is it purely because it does nothing to the user but count up? Does it also confer the invulnerability both parties have to each other's attacks as well? Because I always figured it was the aura being accumulated that handled that particular function of Hakoware. I can see how IRS is similar to Kurapika's chain jail now so the forced Zetsu goes from possibly being a manipulation ability to just the effect of that mascot. It's the only really confusing one. Even after Togashi shattered the theory that white haired Zoldyck's were transmutes. By the way, Milluki really needs to get his poo poo together he could actually be someone in the world.
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Nov 29, 2022 20:51
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Vizuyos posted:It's not that he grasped it better than most hunters, it's that most hunters are a little more attached to living than he is. Being extremely willing to die can give you very strong nen, but the reason most hunters don't do that isn't because they haven't figured that out, it's because that dying tends to have a fair few drawbacks. Kurapica's non-life threatening bullshit is still insanely good. Investigator Cow was marvelling at how impressive Kurapika's dowsing chain on its own is -- and it is one of the most insane powers we've seen. Chrollo commented a long time ago how unique and important Paku's Hatsu was and how they would much rather, as a group, have the likes of Uvo or Nobunaga die instead of her. Kurapika's dowsing rod is that level of useful and he's still got a ton of other tricks. He's largely reliant on emperor time, for sure, and that seems to be the primary restrictor on most of his best abilities but that's a pretty low investment restriction for the most part (even if it bit him recently). Brought To You By posted:I see. I'm still really confused by Knuckle's being a conjurer honestly. Like, I can accept someone like Ikalgo is an enhancer despite his only nen ability being a manipulation one (and a fascinating one at that given he can use dead people's powers) and it's just proof that nen users don't have to use their base category to be viable. But how in the world is Potclean invulnerable to damage if it's conjured and why don't more conjurers do this? Is it purely because it does nothing to the user but count up? Does it also confer the invulnerability both parties have to each other's attacks as well? Because I always figured it was the aura being accumulated that handled that particular function of Hakoware. I can see how IRS is similar to Kurapika's chain jail now so the forced Zetsu goes from possibly being a manipulation ability to just the effect of that mascot. I think Potclean is invulnerable because it doesn't actually have any real physical necessity. It appearing and counting is part of a restriction. It's not like physically interacting or hampering someone. It's like asking to punch energy. You can punch and destroy most constructs because they have some necessary physical component to interact with. It's also possible it's only invincible on a functional level. Like no single person, even Mereum, would have the physical strength to harm it as part of its conditions. But there's some theoretical level of force that would destroy it, it'd just have to be something so forceful that it fucks up energy somehow. Particle accelerator poo poo. Two Tone Shoes fucked around with this message at 21:01 on Nov 29, 2022 |
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Nov 29, 2022 20:53
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Two Tone Shoes posted:I think Potclean is invulnerable because it doesn't actually have any real physical necessity. It appearing and counting is part of a restriction. It's not like physically interacting or hampering someone. It's like asking to punch energy. You can punch and destroy most constructs because they have some necessary physical component to interact with. It's also possible it's only invincible on a functional level. Like no single person, even Mereum, would have the physical strength to harm it as part of its conditions. But there's some theoretical level of force that would destroy it, it'd just have to be something so forceful that it fucks up energy somehow. Particle accelerator poo poo.
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Nov 30, 2022 00:48
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No Wave posted:In a series that's really fun and creative Gon's special move was absolutely pathetic...
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Nov 30, 2022 00:54
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MonsterEnvy posted:I think he mixed up Knov and Knuckle. As before this they were stated to be the opposites of what they are. Yeah, Knuckle being an Emitter and Knov being a Conjurer makes more sense to me.
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Nov 30, 2022 01:09
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Pewdiepie posted:Kurapika hasn't appeared in the manga for over four years now. Feel old yet? 
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