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I really, REALLY want to like the bolter. It should be the perfect gun for my fanatic. I'm using the 2h chain sword so I've got crowd control down with melee and what I really need is something punchy for deleting elites at range. On paper that's the bolter, but goddamn it's just suuuuuch a pain to use. Aiming down the irons sucks. The cocking animation is not only pointless, but it makes whipping it out to deal with a thread a loving chore. Half the time I pull it out to deal with an elite and end up having to rip half the mag off at the random bullshit that's closed the distance and is trying to eat my face in the meantime. Which is a problem because: The mag size is puny. The reload animation is obscenely long. When you've got it in hand it can be pretty useful but good goddamn there's enough friction there that it just becomes annoying to carry. I've been running the combat shotgun as of late but it feels like they changed how it was at the beginning of the beta. I'm not getting ranged headshots nearly as easily. Still an over-all better gun than the bolter.
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Nov 29, 2022 18:08
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Cyrano4747 posted:I really, REALLY want to like the bolter. It should be the perfect gun for my fanatic. I'm using the 2h chain sword so I've got crowd control down with melee and what I really need is something punchy for deleting elites at range. On paper that's the bolter, but goddamn it's just suuuuuch a pain to use. That was pretty much my experience trying the bolter too. Love to shoot it, hate the setup time, hate the ironsights, and the reload is still awful even with +20% speed from the Vet talent. With the amount of times i have to fend off one or two closerange walkers I 'm faced with the sophie's choice of wasting 3 of my precious bullets on poxwalkers, or switching to melee and then having to sit through the long-rear end ready-up. I really hope we can change sights on weapons at some point because that would at least let me deal with the other 2 drawbacks. Combat shotgun's range and ADS is really ridiculously good, and its immediately ready when whipping it out which is great for snapshooting elites in a crowd. I like plasma gun for very similar roles with the caveat that it doesnt seem nearly as effective at very long range as aimed combat shotgun is. Fishstick fucked around with this message at 18:21 on Nov 29, 2022 |
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Nov 29, 2022 18:16
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Bolter is the best meat creator with the absolute worst drawbacks and it’s such a bummer.
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Nov 29, 2022 18:18
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Why ironsights. Is there some purist out that absolutely loves ironsights more than a sight reticle? I loved the revolver but I had trouble shooting anything with it because of how bad it was trying to line up ironsights in a dark game with hordes of enemies moving around. Only ironsights I've been able to use effectively was the Recon Lasgun.
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Nov 29, 2022 18:18
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Kaldaris posted:Why ironsights. Is there some purist out that absolutely loves ironsights more than a sight reticle? I loved the revolver but I had trouble shooting anything with it because of how bad it was trying to line up ironsights in a dark game with hordes of enemies moving around. Only ironsights I've been able to use effectively was the Recon Lasgun. It’s likely a balance thing but it’s not a great way to go about it I feel. They went to the trouble of high fidelity hit boxes, good weapon feel and design and super impressive sound design and then just skimped on even the most basic attachment system. Slightly baffling.
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Nov 29, 2022 18:20
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Kaldaris posted:Why ironsights. Is there some purist out that absolutely loves ironsights more than a sight reticle? I loved the revolver but I had trouble shooting anything with it because of how bad it was trying to line up ironsights in a dark game with hordes of enemies moving around. Only ironsights I've been able to use effectively was the Recon Lasgun. I suspect lore. It's something GW and their fans can be really inflexible about, and in the lore those are usually used by super soldiers wearing body armor.
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Nov 29, 2022 18:25
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Kaldaris posted:Why ironsights. Is there some purist out that absolutely loves ironsights more than a sight reticle? I loved the revolver but I had trouble shooting anything with it because of how bad it was trying to line up ironsights in a dark game with hordes of enemies moving around. Only ironsights I've been able to use effectively was the Recon Lasgun. I assumed it was because you're using a space marine gun when you're not a space marine. They nailed the feel of being some puny human hauling around this massive weapon meant to be used by guys wearing power armor. They have targeting optics in their helmets so having a red dot sight would be pointless. It does good damage if you can hit stuff but every part of it is extremely clunky.
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Nov 29, 2022 18:29
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Honestly the sites are OK. They're not great, but they're functional and it's not like this is real life (edit: or VR) where you actually have to align them. At the end of the day it's all an arbitrary point on a computer monitor, be it displayed as a glowing red reticule or a gray rectangle. Visibility isn't as great against dark backgrounds obviously but if you really want to life hack it you can just stick a colored sticker on your monitor at the point of aim. It's that loving glacial readying animation that kills it. It's a high burst damage, low capacity gun with a long reload. The very definition of something that you whip out to solve a specific problem and don't run around with all match. And that's specifically when you don't want to watch your guy spend ten seconds cocking a weapon extremely slowly. That kind of readying animation might make sense for something like the Ogryn's stubber or an LMG or something where you have a big mag and you're doing crowd clearing with it. That's the one fix I hope they make. Either speed up the animation or remove some aspects like cocking it or loving SOMETHING. Cut the readying time down by half and it's a functional weapon with a niche use it's good at.
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Nov 29, 2022 18:30
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apparently bolt guns can have scopes but i don't think an attachment system would work very well with this game
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Nov 29, 2022 18:32
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Since we are talking a lot about guns, ran into this video and figured I'd share - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ipd2VlfFAaY
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Nov 29, 2022 18:34
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Internet Explorer posted:Since we are talking a lot about guns, ran into this video and figured I'd share - God, I know I'm preaching to the choir here but goddamn fatshark, when people make a half hour youtube video with like 15-18 chapters or so to explain your weapons and how they work you really, really need to do a better job of explaining your poo poo in-game.
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Nov 29, 2022 18:36
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If you made the bolter Easy To Use as well as Powerful then you'd never have a reason to use another ranged weapon.
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Nov 29, 2022 18:37
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Internet Explorer posted:Yeah, the Kantrael MG XII is pretty much the perfect gun for the Vet, IMO. I'm not 30 with the class yet, but it's just such a joy to use. Same, as everyone else mentioned the other big hitter guns are all held back by annoyances that make them too unwieldy to bring out while trying to deal with 100 angry variables trying to eat your face at any given moment. Accatran pewpew laser guns are great too.
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Nov 29, 2022 18:44
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Cyrano4747 posted:God, I know I'm preaching to the choir here but goddamn fatshark, when people make a half hour youtube video with like 15-18 chapters or so to explain your weapons and how they work you really, really need to do a better job of explaining your poo poo in-game. You're not fooling me, TFR mod. I know you love this obscure gun poo poo!
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Nov 29, 2022 18:48
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Cyrano4747 posted:God, I know I'm preaching to the choir here but goddamn fatshark, when people make a half hour youtube video with like 15-18 chapters or so to explain your weapons and how they work you really, really need to do a better job of explaining your poo poo in-game. I’m sorry but hours long explainers on how anything works is true to the source material
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Nov 29, 2022 18:49
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I really hope they fix the subtitles not staying off bug. It was broken in closed beta, fixed at the beginning of pre-order beta, and was broken again with the latch a few days ago. It seems like a lot of people keep them on, but I find subtitles so distracting in this game.
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Nov 29, 2022 18:53
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they call me doctor bolter cuz I'm so precise with it I think the irons are fine on it and I routinely click heads- I just swap over to the +20% and +30% reload talents when I run bolter and it seems to work out pretty good. I think the ideal bolter needs to have the Rending blessing, preferably at 3+ (I dunno if theres a 4 rending version, I've only seen 3). Then with either the monstrosity talent or the weak spot damage talent you can effectively deal with any enemy in the game with 3 or less bolt shells presuming at least 1 is a headshot.
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Nov 29, 2022 18:55
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The revolver is definitely the ranged weapon that made the best first impression on zealot so far. I want my ranged weapon to quickly and easily erase specials at any range and so far this has been the best weapon at doing that. Anything else a ranged weapon does is secondary to me. I hope it continues to be usable at higher difficulties This is also the only game I’ve played to animate a revolver reload differently for each possible number of bullets left when you start, which is weirdly high effort and neat
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Nov 29, 2022 19:01
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Senethro posted:If you made the bolter Easy To Use as well as Powerful then you'd never have a reason to use another ranged weapon. Id still use MG12 for zapping ranged specials rapidly.
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Nov 29, 2022 19:03
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I decided to play around with some of the other Combat Knife movesets on Psyker before the game went down and just a PSA on how loving nuts the MkIII is. The light attack cycle is two completely horizontal swipes followed by a stab, which certainly feels like it has solid armor penetration, in addition to the movespeed and armor penetration on the charged attacks. Getting your warp charges up, aiming vaguely at head level, and spamming left click feels like the loving power sword in how it instantly decapitations anything standing in front of you on dif 4. There's no world where it doesn't feel even better which the appropriate chaff damage bonuses once we have full access to crafting. Two charged attacks will kill anything with head armor short of a Mauler, including Ragers, and the movement speed bonus from holding the charged attack makes pressing F and rushing gunner patrols effortless if you turn a corner into a bad situation and want to easily force them into melee. Literally the only downside is that you can't vent with it out, otherwise a full on Unchained-style build with the block raises Peril before reducing your stamina would be easily a top tier build choice. I think a good way to make the Force Sword not the Obviously Best Melee Weapon, And It's Not Close would be to let us vent with any melee weapon out, but I don't know how likely that is to happen.
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Nov 29, 2022 19:12
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big cummers ONLY posted:Yes, there is a sanctioned mod that improves their AI significantly though I can't remember what it's called off the top of my head. I'm sure it's the most popular one. They can still get grabbed by a chaos spawn if they are swarmed or cornered but it makes them much better at protecting themselves.
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Nov 29, 2022 19:14
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boredsatellite posted:Weirdly enough I love the revolver reload animation Oh, I do like the animation! It's very cool! It's just very slow as well, and I feel like when you stack the revolver up next to some of the other weapons that reload may be a bit too much of a detriment for it to be really competetive. Like, it does a ton of damage, but is it really that much more than an MG12, which also holds a lot more ammo? I still use it because hehehehe handcannon go *PTHAM* but I dunno that it would really be a sensible choice on higher difficulties. Also, I am perplexed by all the hate for the bolter ironsights. They're not as good as the lasrifles with reflex sights, obviously, but they're a hell of a lot better than the loving Helbore lasgun or even the recon lasguns.
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Nov 29, 2022 19:14
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I think for me at least the hate for the Bolter sights is that the gun settles extremely weirdly after a shot. I'd expect it to be hard for a human to use even an Arbites/Sororitas level bolter but it doesn't settle back to neutral after taking a long time, after a shot it settles somewhere up to the left or right and that constantly throws off my follow-up single shots unless I think about it and purposefully account for it.
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Nov 29, 2022 19:17
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Huh I'll have to try out the revolver. I skipped it because of people in here saying it was trash. Long reload time I'm fine with. If there's a billion zombies boiling across a bridge I'm going for my chain sword and spamming stun grenades. I need something punchy and accurate for deleting poo poo like pox bursters, charging dogs, snipers that no one else seems to be concerned about, etc. I can reload after poo poo calms down.
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Nov 29, 2022 19:18
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Zephro posted:Thanks, I think I've found the mod. Now to find a Chaos Spawn to test it on... Setting up your bots properly can also help a lot in this regard even if they do get grabbed. Certain careers are markedly better than others in terms of their kit just being more useful when controlled by AI. This broadly applies to the tank careers, with the exception of Mercenary Captain for Kruber, who will absolutely use his ult to get you up if you get downed if you have that talent picked, and Pyromancer Sienna, who will delete specials with her flaming skull on an extremely low cooldown. Other than that Ironbreaker with Shield + another weapon is excellent given how absurdly tanky he is, and Handmaiden Elf provides excellent utility all around.
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Nov 29, 2022 19:22
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Cyrano4747 posted:Huh I'll have to try out the revolver. I skipped it because of people in here saying it was trash. I used the revolver almost exclusively on my Zealot. It's pinpoint accurate from across the map and is excellent for killing snipers or dangerous specials. It's weakness is that it has no real answer for large squads of basic range guys. Like you can headshot them and I probably waste more ammo doing that than anything else, but it's obviously not as efficient at that job as say, a lasgun or any other high ammo weapon. Given that Zealot already has issues running into laser fire that can put you in a rough spot if you don't plan carefully.
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Nov 29, 2022 19:22
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Orv posted:I think for me at least the hate for the Bolter sights is that the gun settles extremely weirdly after a shot. I'd expect it to be hard for a human to use even an Arbites/Sororitas level bolter but it doesn't settle back to neutral after taking a long time, after a shot it settles somewhere up to the left or right and that constantly throws off my follow-up single shots unless I think about it and purposefully account for it. This is my problem nowadays as well. You think its returned to aim point, but it hasnt.
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Nov 29, 2022 19:25
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Cyrano4747 posted:Huh I'll have to try out the revolver. I skipped it because of people in here saying it was trash. Oh it definitely isn't trash. It's an absolutely excellent weapon for counter-sniping, or picking off bursters, gunners or bombers. It's also pretty good against maulers, because it's got great armour piercing and it staggers the gently caress out of them. It's a solid choice for taking out little groups of regular ranged enemies too, though I don't think it penetrates cover as well as a bolter does.
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Nov 29, 2022 19:30
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The_White_Crane posted:Oh it definitely isn't trash. It's an absolutely excellent weapon for counter-sniping, or picking off bursters, gunners or bombers. It's also pretty good against maulers, because it's got great armour piercing and it staggers the gently caress out of them. It's a solid choice for taking out little groups of regular ranged enemies too, though I don't think it penetrates cover as well as a bolter does. Yeah, sounds perfect. Mendrian posted:
Those are dangerous and annoying, but my basic plan for them is to either let the rest of the team deal with them or, if that's not happening, dash cover to cover until I can, quite literally, "get closer so I can hit them with my sword."
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Nov 29, 2022 19:34
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I can deal with the bolter have a strange recoil pattern or taking a long time to reload, it's usually used by people or superhumans in power armor. The needing to cock it every time you pull it out is what drives me nuts. Or even if you get a little boop from an explosion or another knockback you have to go through the egregiously long cocking animation.
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Nov 29, 2022 19:40
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God I wish they would buff the Lucius lasguns to start at a higher base damage (with the same upper cap when charging) so they they could one-tap regular ranged soldiers to the chest without having to charge. As they are, just just have no niche next to the Kantrael, needing the same hits to kill with much worse handling and ammo economy.
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Nov 29, 2022 19:43
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Perestroika posted:God I wish they would buff the Lucius lasguns to start at a higher base damage (with the same upper cap when charging) so they they could one-tap regular ranged soldiers to the chest without having to charge. As they are, just just have no niche next to the Kantrael, needing the same hits to kill with much worse handling and ammo economy. Yes please.
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Nov 29, 2022 19:45
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I will note that if you pull out an empty boltgun, you can skip the cocking animation and immediately begin the reload by hitting your manual reload key.
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Nov 29, 2022 19:56
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Cyrano4747 posted:Huh I'll have to try out the revolver. I skipped it because of people in here saying it was trash. The other thing about the revolver is that it can penetrate through dudes, so if there's like a sniper / burster behind his mates you can still drill him. It's not quite as good as the plasma gun at just drilling through 4 ranks of bullshit to hit a bomber, but it's a lot easier to use and available to zealot. I honestly think it works great for sharpshooter as an alternate to plasma / bolter, and it can also get a lot of use from sharpshooter +reloads and sharpshooter has enough ammo for it to use it lots. I really like it, but I'm already a mark for scifi wheel guns. I want that crazy bolt revolver that interrogator Rannick has in the level 30 cutscene. During the beta weekend the other month, people were saying there was a revolver with the speed loader, but I've not seen it this go around.
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Nov 29, 2022 19:56
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The bolter is really good at two things: mulching monsters and quickly killing armored enemies. Its barely useful in sniping specials even if it oneshots most since the godawful iron sights just blow massive rear end, and the ready time is long enough that you cant quickly respond to threats. Considering one of the veterans roles is chipping down the hordes of shooters and specials you'll face, it fails at 50% of the tasks since its ammo capacity and (ironically enough) the suppression makes it useless at handling shooters.
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Nov 29, 2022 20:03
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DeathSandwich posted:During the beta weekend the other month, people were saying there was a revolver with the speed loader, but I've not seen it this go around. I said that, but I might've been mistaken.
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Nov 29, 2022 20:05
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Perestroika posted:God I wish they would buff the Lucius lasguns to start at a higher base damage (with the same upper cap when charging) so they they could one-tap regular ranged soldiers to the chest without having to charge. As they are, just just have no niche next to the Kantrael, needing the same hits to kill with much worse handling and ammo economy. Those irons are trash and I somehow miss all kinds of easy shots I normally hit with the Kantrael
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Nov 29, 2022 20:19
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I think y'all are crazy because my personal experience with the revolver irons has been fine and I've made plenty of long range shots with it but I realize it's all subjective in the end
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Nov 29, 2022 20:36
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Sab Sabbington posted:I decided to play around with some of the other Combat Knife movesets on Psyker before the game went down and just a PSA on how loving nuts the MkIII is. The light attack cycle is two completely horizontal swipes followed by a stab, which certainly feels like it has solid armor penetration, in addition to the movespeed and armor penetration on the charged attacks. Venting with the sword out is slower than with a staff with high quelling bar so I usually would just swap if I ever had to get it below more then a couple percentage. I much prefer the movesets of the dueling saber and combat knife, but the main niche I think the force sword has is with the trait to be able to block ranged rifle, I was messing around with about 42% block efficiency and the block raises peril feat and I could basically become a Shield Ogyn for long periods or in those "turn a corner and alert 30 gunners" situations, with a organized team I could probably have veterans hide behind it and shoot too, but even solo I could just slowly push towards the gunners until they took their sword out and I could swing. If they changed weapons like the force sword to work more like the power sword and turned the special charged light attack into a horde clear, or made it so the special charge only stopped when hitting a big target instead of getting stuck in a zombie in front of the crusher, that would propel force sword to top tier moveset. As for the revolver I put it in the trash the instant it stopped 1 shotting or even 2 shotting specials that needed to be put down yesterday, when the game is tossing 4-6 threats that need to be dealt with I can't spend the entire ammo clip into a mutant or flamer and have to spend a year on the (really well done) reload animation for the other mutant and 2 dogs flying around, maybe I just needed one with a maxed out "damage bar" but it still feels bad if a gun falls under the right kill thresholds because of rng bar stats. Ra Ra Rasputin fucked around with this message at 20:54 on Nov 29, 2022 |
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Nov 29, 2022 20:49
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I don't have any trouble with the bolters accuracy, I just find the animation of getting it out pretty burdensome. If a hound jumps on a teammate it's like a couple seconds to shoot it off and switch back to a melee weapon versus other options Being able to just magdump and wipe out a horde or ogryn or a big chunk of a monstrosity us pretty good though
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