(Thread IKs:
Captain Foo)
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The manifestos have been decent, but if we are getting patch notes on Thursday, I really want to see a shake up in skill balance. Nerf RF and LS, but we really need to get some meaningful buffs to a lot of underused skills, or this is going to be another league that dies in 2 weeks.
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Nov 29, 2022 19:32
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| # ? May 26, 2024 16:55 |
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Mulozon Empuri posted:Yes this sounds like fun, but is it really? Based on the absolutely ridiculous amount of hours people played sentinel league, ima also go with: yes definitely theshim posted:Not to beat a dead horse too hard, but Diablo 3 is an excellent example of things being too easy to acquire, to the point that you can basically have your almost completely optimized build done in a day or two with no room for upgrades beyond fractions of a percent. It's fun to pick up for a couple days every few seasons or so, but it has no staying power. There has to be something to work towards that isn't trivially achievable or there's no point to continue playing for the vast, vast majority of players. This isn't a contentious opinion, it's easily observable fact. poe has never even remotely come close to d3 rate of progession and even if you look at harvest (the season, or the reintroduction in ritual) or sentinel you'll notice that the defining thing of each is that people played until the end of the season because the process of making good items still took days/weeks in 99% of cases. I get why ggg is concerned about the potential of too rapid progress lest the game end up as shallow as d3, but even the leagues with the highest ceiling of crafting power have never been within a factor of 20 of diablo 3s rate of progress. Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 19:40 on Nov 29, 2022 |
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Nov 29, 2022 19:33
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BadMedic posted:So I want to preface this by saying that GGG has been loving up a lot lately, so this isn't entirely a defense of them the reason leagues hyper mode caused burnout is because for years and years before they first ran Ultra Rapid Fire is the games were too long and it was too hard to come back from being behind so you had a lot of 10+ minute periods where the game was over, had been over for 10 or 15 minutes before that but you needed to suffer through because one guy on your team wouldn't surrender and the enemy team wouldn't push. so they'd often be 45 minute matches at this time. then they made a mode which clearly demonstrated that a league match could be 20 minutes max, but they just didn't want to do that. THATS why people only wanted to play URF and wouldn't come back if they weren't running it lol.
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Nov 29, 2022 19:56
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making a badass bleed siege axe took me weeks during harvest league - I played nearly to the end of league perfecting the One Good Axe, and this was at a point when I treated poe as a part time job (which is totally unhealthy and a completely dif can of worms). D3, as stated, takes a weekend to gear up Every gearapalooza mechanic, recombs, pseudolink influence mods, fossils, og harvest whatever could occur every map and you wouldn't have the kind of speed in gearing that d3 has Grimoire fucked around with this message at 20:16 on Nov 29, 2022 |
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Nov 29, 2022 20:07
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the really nice crafting "recipes" are still nondeterministic and (with reforge prefix/suffix dead) frequently have steps that can brick at the end of the craft when you try to do an aisling slam. even if you had unlimited currency most players would run out of patience before actually hitting the perfect item.
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Nov 29, 2022 20:17
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External Organs posted:With Recombinators specifically, I'm not sure they qualify by themselves as being an overpowered mechanic. As mentioned they incentivize other aspects of the game - picking up floor loot, learning different crafting methods, trading. Then it's another roll of the dice that removes resources from the game. This is an interesting point insofar as there's a degree of subjectivity to this that I think is particularly key and, similarly, that one of the more interesting take aways is that things value or power should not be strictly linked to their absolute value in terms of div or ex. Recombinators were very good, but the particularly remarkable thing about them was their abundance. If Awakener orbs had been released at a similar state of abundance (eg 5-25c a pop for the first half of the season) you would have had a comparable explosion int he amount of people using them for everything and far, far more people singing their praises. Instead, as super rare items it was only a couple of percent of the playerbase that ever even used an awakener orb in the first couple of seasons they were around. Just fundamentally, 99% of the playerbase does not know enough about crafting or the specifically brand new mod pools to get the most out of a 5ex item that they could just sell for it's cash value and get discrete upgrades for. Recombinators were fun and wild because they were abundant and at a price point that was cheap enough that people could use them non-optimally and not feel like they were throwing away their biggest drop of the day. Early in sentinel league I was trying to figure out how much recombinators would sell for if they were a core part of the game and at awakener orb level of rarity and I'd come back to probably 5-10 ex/div a piece (possibly more, possibly less. the ceiling is high because recombinating mirror items has ludicrous potential to it, but generally most people were just using them to get two fractures on a base or to combine temple mods or yolo some t1 mods together. Basically the discrepancy between the potential and the scarcity/cost wasn't so much overpowered as it was specifically the thing that made them fun. It was 'The Fun Zone' if u will. Anyways there are always a lot of things in poe that have values/rarities out of proportion to their, like, objective magnitude of absolute build power potential and that gap is, within reason, good and the source of a lot of fun. The season where Ashes and Omni were popular wasn't a bad time, it was a time of people trying a million different builds. Reversing course into making them 60 div items just incinerated the ability for people to have fun with them, even if I can agree with the argument that their actual value vis a vis their power as items facilitating builds is around that high. That massive nerf to their availability (and then additionally to the actual power of omni, too) was one of the most needlessly anti-fun things ggg has done in a while. tldr: things that are cool and let people play the game in different ways or do things that they don't normally do are the funnest part of POE and should be abundant enough that people can actually engage with them. When you scale their abundance off of their potential value in minmaxed potential you just guarantee that no one uses them outside of the tiny handful of people who figure out how to get 10 div of value per use.
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Nov 29, 2022 20:25
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I made a ton of attempts at builds when my 30% ashes was like 2.5ex. Second only to ritual. Played those both to 40 challenges and then some and bought all the packs + a lot of extra points for skill effects. Hrm, both of those leagues involved being able to mostly deterministically affect weird off-meta builds. Oh well, I'm sure it's nothing.
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Nov 29, 2022 20:29
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Herstory Begins Now posted:The season where Ashes and Omni were popular wasn't a bad time, it was a time of people trying a million different builds. Reversing course into making them 60 div items just incinerated the ability for people to have fun with them, even if I can agree with the argument that their actual value vis a vis their power as items facilitating builds is around that high. That massive nerf to their availability (and then additionally to the actual power of omni, too) was one of the most needlessly anti-fun things ggg has done in a while. idk if I completely agree w/ this - they're both so obviously good that it feels like you have to try to use something else in a build. it feels weird like not even considering other items in the slot except as stepping stones, and if this is the one thing holding back build diversity I feel like that could be fixed elsewhere. I don't think making them rare really solves the problem though unless they get gently caress-you rare like a headhunter or something
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Nov 29, 2022 20:36
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I am going to insist that skill gem quality should be an affix in rare jewelry.
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Nov 29, 2022 20:37
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It feels like such poo poo these days being off meta lol. For gods sake just buff the bad skills already.
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Nov 29, 2022 20:38
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JamesKPolk posted:idk if I completely agree w/ this - they're both so obviously good that it feels like you have to try to use something else in a build. it feels weird like not even considering other items in the slot except as stepping stones, and if this is the one thing holding back build diversity I feel like that could be fixed elsewhere. I don't think making them rare really solves the problem though unless they get gently caress-you rare like a headhunter or something Yeah it's dumb if they are so op that they're in 80% of builds, but also there's a middle ground between making them a 1% drop from a boss that requires running 30 maps to get one chance at.
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Nov 29, 2022 20:49
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The fact that strikes haven't received barely even a token pass since 3.7, and have been actively nerfed via threshold jewel removal and stat sticks is incomprehensible to me.
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Nov 29, 2022 20:50
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Larry Parrish posted:It feels like such poo poo these days being off meta lol. For gods sake just buff the bad skills already. I agree with this. I don't have enough time these days not to play an OP build and I'm tired of explosive arrow. If I was uneployed I would play the poo poo out of HC ruthless though. I take back everything bad I've ever said about bold guys skills in game design.
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Nov 29, 2022 20:50
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External Organs posted:How about this Elentor: in ssf they can redesign rogue exile encounters so if you do them right you can make them friendly and go back to their hideouts, where they have gear you can trade for just like in trade league.
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Nov 29, 2022 21:15
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boo_radley posted:Path of Exile: I have far more fun than I would have if I had to play the game.
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Nov 29, 2022 21:22
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https://twitter.com/pathofexile/status/1597683322372509696?s=20&t=DPwVOtlFUPvWWMiI6n0W-g
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Nov 29, 2022 21:27
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No!!! What is 12/7 ??? Why !!!! Whyyyyy
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Nov 29, 2022 21:28
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euphronius posted:No!!! What is 12/7 ??? Why !!!! Whyyyyy Don't worry your pretty little head over that because you'll never see one of those cards.
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Nov 29, 2022 21:29
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euphronius posted:No!!! What is 12/7 ??? Why !!!! Whyyyyy It's very funny.
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Nov 29, 2022 21:29
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whypick1 posted:Don't worry your pretty little head over that because you'll never see one of those cards. It's only worth 0.583 divines, so it might be common enough to show up every so often from a stacked deck or whatever
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Nov 29, 2022 21:36
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euphronius posted:No!!! What is 12/7 ??? Why !!!! Whyyyyy 1.714285714 ...this is a really interesting fraction. It's 1.7+1/70, somehow. edit: ah, it's because 1/.98 (which is found via 12/7 into 5/7 into 5/70 then 5/490) is 1.02040816 etc, it's a taylor series number. 7/12 is probably what you were more interested in though, that's just .58333 McFrugal fucked around with this message at 21:49 on Nov 29, 2022 |
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Nov 29, 2022 21:37
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McFrugal posted:1.714285714 Wrong way around. 7 Divines = 12 cards.
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Nov 29, 2022 21:38
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Hey Herstory, because of the curse manifesto it's likely i'll play a starter who uses Stone of Lazhwar throughout so thanks for the spell block discussion
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Nov 29, 2022 21:49
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I'm gonna make a stupid eye of malice / scales of justice / the black zenith elementalist and use charged dash with some mana leach and the agnostic/mind over matter to zip around nuking things with giant aoe blazing salvo  Do not recommend
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Nov 29, 2022 22:01
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Larry Parrish posted:It feels like such poo poo these days being off meta lol. For gods sake just buff the bad skills already. GGG: No. Only nerf. It makes me sad how this game has an insane amount of skills, and most are newbie traps. You can probably strugglebus your way through the campaign with anything (worst case), but you won't get far in maps.
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Nov 29, 2022 22:38
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Iirc they said they don’t delete gems becuase people bought micro transactions for them . Idk that is somewhat plausible They could just refund the points
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Nov 29, 2022 22:53
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what about the ones without mtx lol
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Nov 29, 2022 22:56
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The manifestos have me thinking about coming back this league for the first time in a year-ish, but I'd be getting a late start and don't really feeling like dealing with trade so I might try SSF. How bad of an idea is this if I only half-understand crafting and don't have hours each day to sink into the game? Over the course of a season I generally just aim to hit red maps and maybe take a crack or two at the endgame bosses, so my goals aren't super high.
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Nov 29, 2022 23:06
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The biggest, absolutely #1 thing, about SSF is that everything takes longer to do, even after you've geared sufficiently to take on endgame. Since you can't just go buy maps/map fragments to go fight the pinnacle/atlas boss you like, you have to do it the old fashioned way, by running t15+ maps to build up 'charge' so it lets you go punch a blue/red rear end in a top hat pinnacle boss (or collect atlas bosses until Maven lets you punch those until they drop enough key fragments to let you punch her. Nothing about that stops anyone from jumping into SSF whenever, hell you can start in SSF if this is your first ever time playing PoE, but just be aware that it's going to take a lot more time and effort to get to that endgame than if you just hang out in trade and buy the stuff you need to punch the boss you want.
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Nov 29, 2022 23:15
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Big Mad Drongo posted:The manifestos have me thinking about coming back this league for the first time in a year-ish, but I'd be getting a late start and don't really feeling like dealing with trade so I might try SSF. How bad of an idea is this if I only half-understand crafting and don't have hours each day to sink into the game? Over the course of a season I generally just aim to hit red maps and maybe take a crack or two at the endgame bosses, so my goals aren't super high. if you aren't 100% cool with rolling your own gear, don't SSF. pick a build that doesn't need a bunch of niche things and just do maps, save currency, and buy upgrades.
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Nov 29, 2022 23:18
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I do about 30-40 hours per league. 20-30 before I get to red maps. My pb to maps is like 12hrs something.
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Nov 29, 2022 23:21
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boo_radley posted:Path of Exile: I have far more fun than I would have if I had to play the game. I have my roots in EVE Online
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Nov 29, 2022 23:24
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Thanks for the replies. I really like the idea of finding/upgrading my own gear rather than zooming through maps ignoring anything that isn't currency, and I'm at least capable of putting together basic equipment, but the time factor is a big deal. Might give it a shot and if it sucks, ah well. I just really hate sitting in trade instead of playing the game, even if it lets me zoom through tiers of content, so maybe I'll actually last longer before burnout even with a longer grind.
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Nov 29, 2022 23:27
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Good https://twitter.com/pathofexile/status/1597715828212125697?t=3TDH3TV9suFwXkpPxh2KFg&s=19
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Nov 29, 2022 23:31
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About loving timeBig Mad Drongo posted:Thanks for the replies. I really like the idea of finding/upgrading my own gear rather than zooming through maps ignoring anything that isn't currency, and I'm at least capable of putting together basic equipment, but the time factor is a big deal. you can always just migrate from SSF to trade league if you hate it
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Nov 29, 2022 23:32
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trade also makes it easier to get the commodities you need to make your own gear--buying/finding something with a decent fracture stat and throwing essences at it is a way to make shockingly decent stuff now without a lot of effort. you're still trading for the essences unless you farm up a huge stockpile of em, but that's just like buying something from The Store instead of hunting for specific gear upgrades.
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Nov 29, 2022 23:34
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Altared State posted:Good Thank the heavens because I was never ever going to memorize these
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Nov 29, 2022 23:35
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Big Mad Drongo posted:Thanks for the replies. I really like the idea of finding/upgrading my own gear rather than zooming through maps ignoring anything that isn't currency, and I'm at least capable of putting together basic equipment, but the time factor is a big deal. You don't _have_ to use trade, you could just do what a lot of other goons do: play the game in trade, maybe dip into the guild stash or ask if anyone's got a thing you want/need for a build and only trade within that (or in #5555, the 'general goons' global channel ingame). SSF started that way, before it was an actual 'league' mode of its own, just as an unenforced thing people did for a challenge.
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Nov 29, 2022 23:37
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gently caress finally, I never remember what is what
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Nov 29, 2022 23:37
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| # ? May 26, 2024 16:55 |
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Big Mad Drongo posted:The manifestos have me thinking about coming back this league for the first time in a year-ish, but I'd be getting a late start and don't really feeling like dealing with trade so I might try SSF. How bad of an idea is this if I only half-understand crafting and don't have hours each day to sink into the game? Over the course of a season I generally just aim to hit red maps and maybe take a crack or two at the endgame bosses, so my goals aren't super high. I think it's probably fine but why not play trade? The league hasn't started yet. I think it starts on like the...9th? I am a full time non WFH job guy / have a 2.5 toddler and a wife, I probably only play like 5-10 hours a week during the fun part of the league then I drop off. It's still a good time. Just don't like theorycraft an omni build or some poo poo.
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Nov 29, 2022 23:39
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