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Tankbuster
Oct 1, 2021
Also wasn't tiger mania a thing post operation overlord? The Panzer 4H and J versions did look like a miniature tiger.

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Frosted Flake
Sep 13, 2011

Semper Shitpost Ubique

From other articles:

That means that Adolf Hitler’s insane regime has been erased from history, as the Greatest Leader of All Time is reduced to painting pulp magazine covers. There are no Nazis in this setting; as much as I hate Nazis and enjoy describing how utterly inept they were at running a country and conducting a war (and just about everything else beyond genocide and petty corruption) even I tire of that sometimes. And so I just wrote them out of existence.



I crafted our Second Great War alternative-history setting to maximize battleship action. I also wanted a more-or-less believable story arc, and I wanted to erase the Nazis. Because I hate Nazis, original or neo flavor. And so the great empires of 1914 have survived to struggle again in a new generation’s war.



Design Note: I really hate Nazis, and though the Germans who fought at Tornio were not SS I did want to make sure the Lappland War between Finland and Germany received a suitable selection of scenarios. The Finns have numbers and morale and absolutely nothing else, it's a pure infantry force.



Though sometimes compared to Hitler’s Waffen SS, the MVSN had more in common with the German Brownshirts, the Nazi Party’s street-fighting thugs. But where the Nazis attempted to replace class consciousness with a virulently racist nationalism, the MVSN recruited from the urban working class.



Taking Out the Trash: 7th SS Mountain

Though often protrayed as an elite combat force, Heinrich Himmler’s Waffen SS only became a major player on the battlefield relatively late in World War II. The General SS had only a political role and thus its men had no exemption from conscription. Many SS men avoided the army through the loophole that kept police out of the draft pool, and using SS units for occupation and security duties helped Himmler build his political and economic empire.

While some SS units saw front-line combat from the start of Operation Barbarossa, most of those sent into the Soviet Union after 22 June 1941 were intended as security troops. They would suppress resistance, mop up bypassed Red Army units, and most importantly in Himmler’s eyes, carry out the slaughter of Jews. Many of these units found themselves pressed into front-line combat during the Soviet winter offensive of 1941-1942, and when spring came the SS began to expand its combat role.



Underaged War Criminals

Forced Labour in the Third Reich

The Nazi War Machine

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

Tankbuster posted:

Also wasn't tiger mania a thing post operation overlord? The Panzer 4H and J versions did look like a miniature tiger.

Americans are very bad at identifying opposing materiel, is the main takeway there afaik.

Tekopo
Oct 24, 2008

When you see it, you'll shit yourself.


deathtraps has a lot to answer for

Tankbuster
Oct 1, 2021
Why didn't the germans put their spaced armor on later era tanks and kept it to the pz3 and 4?

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
https://twitter.com/NewRayven/status/1594906527806410753?t=pVr1WcK_ZUEXgDE0XVakEQ&s=19

Some loving myths just refuse to die

Tekopo
Oct 24, 2008

When you see it, you'll shit yourself.


probably because they didn't need it and the panther/tiger were already ridiculously overweight

Tekopo
Oct 24, 2008

When you see it, you'll shit yourself.


guy that works at tank repair depot: "wow there's a LOT of damaged tanks here!!"

Tekopo has issued a correction as of 14:06 on Nov 25, 2022

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

Tekopo posted:

probably because they didn't need it and the panther/tiger were already ridiculously overweight

Turns out being able to cross bridges and drive over roads without utterly shredding them is good tank design.


Nerds don't jack off about that poo poo though, all they care about is (barrel) length and (armour) thickness.

Frosted Flake
Sep 13, 2011

Semper Shitpost Ubique

Tekopo posted:

guy that works at tank repair depot: "wow there's a LOT of damaged tanks here!!"

It’s funny too because it’s something we did incredibly well and the Germans were trash at

No Shortage of Tanks!: The Canadian Army’s System for the Recovery, Repair and Replacement of A and B Vehicles and Major Weapons Systems

While what has been written on wartime equipment and vehicle repair, recovery and replacement has mainly focussed on German armoured forces 1939-1945, little focus has been devoted to researching these capabilities within Allied units.
...
The operational record, systems and structure of First Canadian Army’s repair and replacement services for “A” and “B” vehicles and major weapons systems in nwe will be examined within this article. That these organizations were remarkably successful at achieving their main goal of maintaining the combat strength of the Canadian Army Overseas (cao) is the conclusion presented. The historical significance of these processes lies in their level of effectiveness. Nearly always fully functional, these processes allowed Canadian combat formations to maintain their strength in the face of a sustained level of high losses over an extended period. By addressing the question of how Canadian combat arms units maintained their equipment strength, this article contributes to the wider debate on Allied military effectiveness, the value of the size of the Allied support units compared to combat units, and aids the goal of a larger understanding of the unique methods used by the Western Allies to pursue their war aims.
...
Never wanting for an acceptable level of vehicles and heavy weapons systems allowed Canadian units to remain combat effective for the vast majority of the time during 1944-1945. In contrast to German forces, new and repaired vehicles and weapons systems reached front-line artillery, armoured and infantry units at a much faster rate and in larger quantities. The Corps of Royal Canadian Electrical and Mechanical Engineers (rceme) epitomized this contrast in organizational structure and performance as they were largely separated from the combat arms units they serviced past the second line of maintenance, making them much more effective. This article will discuss the process of delivering new and repaired vehicles and weaponry first, including a description of the specialist organizations involved. This will be followed by an outline of the rceme recovery and repair system, its evolution as an organization and its performance in the field.
...
As an example, of the sixty-one Sherman tanks the 6th Canadian Armoured Regiment (1st Hussars) fielded on D-Day, nearly all were lost to enemy action or mechanical failure by the end of August 1944. The Hussar Sherman tank “Holy Roller”, now a monument in London, Ontario, was the only one to survive in the regiment’s possession from D-Day until the end of hostilities. Enemy action was not often the real threat. Tanks sent away for heavy maintenance would often return with another unit, or not at all, being replaced by a newer variant that was more technologically advanced. The fate of “Holy Roller” was very much the exception rather than the rule.

It's an interesting read, even though the subject seems dry at first glance.

Frosted Flake has issued a correction as of 16:55 on Nov 25, 2022

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!
Wait are you claiming logistics are crucial?

Frosted Flake
Sep 13, 2011

Semper Shitpost Ubique

Orange Devil posted:

Wait are you claiming logistics are crucial?

Nah, sending a 55 tonne tank back to the factory for any serious repair is a great use of time and resources. So is having to disassemble the tank to repair, or even access really, the transmission, and removing several road wheels to replace one.

Tekopo
Oct 24, 2008

When you see it, you'll shit yourself.


look having to remove 7 road wheels in order to just replace 1 of them builds character and shows the strength of precision german engineering

why mass produce tanks when you can create special hand-crafted bespoke artisanal panzers

Slavvy
Dec 11, 2012

Tankbuster posted:

Why didn't the germans put their spaced armor on later era tanks and kept it to the pz3 and 4?

The spaced armour was put there to resist Soviet AT rifles popping up from behind, which the panther and tiger were able to do organically. Contrary to popular belief it did jack poo poo against HEAT warheads and wasn't intended to help with those.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
I've spent some more time with Arsenal of Democracy over the week, and here's a trip report:

- as I've mentioned, development actually did resume with a new team, and the game has been patched as recently as July of 2020

- at top of mind is that this new dev team completely re-did the rendering engine for the game, such that it supports windowed mode natively without having to switch your monitor display back to 16-bit color

- they added per-province air mission orders, which was previously a Darkest-Hour-only feature

- they also added infinite-duration air and naval mission orders, again another DH-only feature

- they added an entirely new 1936 campaign, named Vanguard, with a modded AI and manpower/resource/production layout to provide a harder challenge. It's still the same map, though.

So far I've played through to 1939 and the conquest of Poland. Denmark has fallen in October of 1939, and I'm now preparing for Case Yellow.

The game still plays and feels like HOI2, and it's a little difficult to suss out the subtle differences in combat resolution besides the fact that Tactical Bombers are no longer division-vaporizing death stars, but the game does play well, and I've not encountered any crashes so far, but the modernized windowed mode alone is, IMO, worth the price of admission, especially now when it's like 2.50 USD on Steam.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
https://twitter.com/RooksAndKingz/status/1597376557995417600

whew!

Frosted Flake
Sep 13, 2011

Semper Shitpost Ubique


No way. That would be something else.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=H7V_Nz5IGHU

Minenfeld!
Aug 21, 2012



Why isn't that new cold war game on steam?

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy

Minenfeld! posted:

Why isn't that new cold war game on steam?

Slitherine / Matrix Games don't always go straight to Steam. They're on Slitherine only for like 6-12 months, and then go on Steam later (with a free Steam activation code for anyone who already bought it from Slitherine)

Frosted Flake
Sep 13, 2011

Semper Shitpost Ubique

GURPS' attempt to quantify material reality continues to be more interesting than it ought to be

KirbyKhan
Mar 20, 2009



Soiled Meat

Frosted Flake posted:

GURPS' attempt to quantify material reality continues to be more interesting than it ought to be



Yeah, I reread the wealth stat and it is way dumber than I remember.


GURPS Wiki posted:


Amount of Wealth
These multipliers also apply to Typical Monthly Pay. The actual monthly pay can be as low as the previous TL or as high as the next TL. The typical status[1] is also listed:

Dead Broke [-25]: no starting wealth
Poor [-15]: 1/5 of starting wealth, Status -2
Struggling [-10]: 1/2 of starting wealth, Status -1
Average: Status 0
Comfortable [10]: 2 times starting wealth, Status 1
Wealthy [20]: 5 times starting wealth, Status 2
Very Wealthy [30]: 20 times starting wealth, Status 3
Filthy Rich [50]: 100 times starting wealth, Status 4
Multimillionaire [50+25/level]: 100*10 per level times starting wealth, Status 5 w/+1 for each level

Danann
Aug 4, 2013

https://twitter.com/KRosencreutz/status/1597233283099951105

:thunk:

Minenfeld!
Aug 21, 2012



Where's that V3 reddit post that was ranting about how terrible land owners were and how they wish they'd all gently caress off so the poster could make the country better?

Jazerus
May 24, 2011


Minenfeld! posted:

Where's that V3 reddit post that was ranting about how terrible land owners were and how they wish they'd all gently caress off so the poster could make the country better?

played as the USA a couple days ago and beat the hell out of the land owners until they became totally politically marginalized by an unholy coalition of academics, capitalists, and workers. also i didn't give in to the klan during reconstruction so southern culture became legally discriminated against after the civil war while afro-american became a primary culture lol

Danann
Aug 4, 2013

Minenfeld! posted:

Where's that V3 reddit post that was ranting about how terrible land owners were and how they wish they'd all gently caress off so the poster could make the country better?

https://twitter.com/bloomfilters/status/1589367983238848512

found it

Danann
Aug 4, 2013

https://twitter.com/the__Rincewind/status/1589378169572032512

unexpected gem in the comments

Tankbuster
Oct 1, 2021
the PB do wind up joining the fascists once that gets discovered.

Southpaugh
May 26, 2007

Smokey Bacon


Frosted Flake posted:

GURPS' attempt to quantify material reality continues to be more interesting than it ought to be



extremely good

skooma512
Feb 8, 2012

You couldn't grok my race car, but you dug the roadside blur.

Jazerus posted:

played as the USA a couple days ago and beat the hell out of the land owners until they became totally politically marginalized by an unholy coalition of academics, capitalists, and workers. also i didn't give in to the klan during reconstruction so southern culture became legally discriminated against after the civil war while afro-american became a primary culture lol

At last I can harrow the south :getin:

Hazamuth
May 9, 2007

the original bugsy

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/developer-diary/victoria-3-dev-diary-68-patch-1-1-changelog-part-4.1560218/ Victoria 3 1.1 coming on Monday. The changelog looks pretty good in that most of the small nitpicks and some larger AI issues (never ending wars) seem to be fixed.

https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/1611600/view/3615857252827730224 On WARNO news, they showed some graphics on the campaign maps and reiterated that on launch there will be four of them. Also amphibious units and FOBs are coming soon(ish).

Lostconfused
Oct 1, 2008

quote:

- Buildings will now only raise wages if they are either competing for wages or are below their minimum wage target; the target is based on employees' Expected Standard of Living to prevent too much active radicalization

KomradeX
Oct 29, 2011


They are Liberals after all.

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!
Still don't see a mechanism by which factories lower their wages whenever possible though. So seems like a temporary labour shortage causing a wage spike might lead to structurally higher wages. If welfare remains tied to wages rather than SoL cost that might be an issue.

Lostconfused
Oct 1, 2008

Orange Devil posted:

Still don't see a mechanism by which factories lower their wages whenever possible though. So seems like a temporary labour shortage causing a wage spike might lead to structurally higher wages. If welfare remains tied to wages rather than SoL cost that might be an issue.

Yes it explicitly says they are not doing that on purpose in the part of the patch notes I quoted.

Any sort of labour shortage shouldn't cause a structurally higher wage though unless the entire country is broken in some way. Labourers would just switch from working at one building to another. It should just drive down employment and productivity at less profitable buildings until they raise wages or stop operating entirely.

Lostconfused has issued a correction as of 18:20 on Dec 2, 2022

Tankbuster
Oct 1, 2021
Lemme do government run industry without going to command acconomie.

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

Lostconfused posted:

Yes it explicitly says they are not doing that on purpose in the part of the patch notes I quoted.

Any sort of labour shortage shouldn't cause a structurally higher wage though unless the entire country is broken in some way. Labourers would just switch from working at one building to another. It should just drive down employment and productivity at less profitable buildings until they raise wages or stop operating entirely.

The part you quoted outlines the mechanism for raising wages. It doesn't mention a mechanism for lowering wages.

Also you just described the exact mechanism through which a labour shortage will cause structurally higher wages if a mechanism to lower wages doesn't exist in your second paragraph...

Orange Devil has issued a correction as of 23:35 on Dec 2, 2022

Lostconfused
Oct 1, 2008

The mechanism for lowering wages has always been the same. Profitability.

Standard of living creates the lower boundary of wages and building profitability creates the upper boundary for wages.

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!
Right but that means capitalists don't try to maximize their share of the surplus, they only spring into action if the factory goes into a failure state. If the factory barely makes profit but the workers capture most of that, even if they would now tolerate lower wages, wages stay up.

Lostconfused
Oct 1, 2008

It's not barely. But you can change it if you're unhappy with it.

Lostconfused posted:

Ok here you go, have fun.

code:
laborers = {
	texture = "gfx/interface/icons/pops_icons/laborers.dds"
	color = hsv{ 0.02 0.38 0.37 }
	strata = poor
	unemployment = yes
	can_always_hire = yes
	start_quality_of_life = 5
	wage_weight = 1
	dependent_wage = 0.5	# per year

        BUILDING_INITIAL_WAGE_WEEKS = 2				# A building will not adjust its wages for the first this many weeks of its existence
	MAX_WAGE_STEP_CHANGE = 0.1					# Wage rates can change at most this much each week
	BUILDING_INIT_PROFIT_TARGET_MIN = 0.10 		# Minimum % income a building wants to have as profit during initialization (will decrease wages towards this)
	BUILDING_INIT_PROFIT_TARGET_MAX = 0.20 		# Maximum % income a building wants to have as profit during initialization (will increase wages towards this)
	BUILDING_PROFIT_TARGET_TO_RAISE_WAGES = 0.2	# Required profit margin raise wages no matter what, with BUILDING_WEEKS_BETWEEN_PAY_RAISES weeks cooldown
	BUILDING_WEEKS_BETWEEN_PAY_RAISES = 26		# Cooldown between pay raises no matter what
	MIN_RAISE_TO_HIRE = 0.10					# The minimum required increase in wages for an employee to switch jobs (1.0 = +100% = x2)
	SUBSISTENCE_OUTPUT_AVERAGE_WAGE_RATE_FACTOR = 150   # Each 1.0 of subsistence output counts as this much wage rate when setting normal wages
	PEASANT_STARTING_WAGE_RATE_FACTOR = 1.0		# For the sake of calculating starting normal wages, treat peasants as having this pop type wage multiplier
	STARTING_WAGE_RATE_MULTIPLIER = 2.0			# Starting wage rate is multiplied by this (for easy balancing)
	NORMAL_WAGE_RATE_FALLBACK = 500.0			# If it's impossible to compute a normal wage rate (e.g. if every incorporated pop works in government buildings) set it to this (weekly £ per POP_SIZE_PACKAGE employees)
	MINIMUM_WAGE_RATE = 10.0					# The wage rate can never drop below this, no matter what (weekly £ per POP_SIZE_PACKAGE employees)
	MAXIMUM_WAGE_RATE = 100000.0				# The absolute maximum that a building's wage rate can be increased to.


	DEFAULT_POP_TYPE = "laborers"				# Used by: create_pop effects; migration; injured military leaving their outposts; slaves default employment role; etc.

	POP_SIZE_PACKAGE = 10000					# "Normal" pop size used as a divisor on population when determining e.g. Needs to buy, wages to pay, etc
And I was wrong, it even does what you wanted

code:
      OBSESSION_DEMAND_MIN = 1.0					# The minimum relative demand of an obsession (overrides min demand in buy package goods categories)
	OBSESSION_DEMAND_MULT = 2.0					# Demand of an obsession is multiplied by this
	MIN_POPS_FOR_NEW_OBSESSION = 50000			# At least this many pops of a culture must live in a market to get an obsession from its goods
	MIN_SUPPLY_LEVEL_FOR_NEW_OBSESSION = 0.75	# Supply needs to be at least this times the demand
	MIN_DEMAND_VALUE_FOR_NEW_OBSESSION = 1000	# At this amount of (number of units * goods base price) needs to be demanded in a market to create a new obsession
	MAX_NUM_OBSESSIONS = 3						# A culture can only have this number of obsessions at the same time
	OBSESSION_SPAWN_CHANCE = 0.1				# Per year (1.0 = 1%), multiplied by goods supply and market size mult
	OBSESSION_SPAWN_CHANCE_MAX_SUPPLY_MULT = 3.0		# Supply relative to demand above this isn't factored into spawn chance

Edit: I kind of mixed them up but the building wages are set in Victoria 3\game\common\defines\00_defines.txt and the populations are defined in Victoria 3\game\common\pop_types so you can fiddle with it all you want.

Edit: We'll have to see if they change any of these values in the patch though.

Lostconfused has issued a correction as of 23:43 on Dec 2, 2022

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Lostconfused
Oct 1, 2008

You're not thinking of this as a game. Capitalist are not different from labourers, they're just employees. Everything is decided by the building. Buildings are the main actors of the game, they consume the most goods, they set the wages, they drive most of the game.

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