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What do you think of the new international distribution deal? This poll is closed. |
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| Hate it |
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12 | 16.90% |
| REALLY hate it |
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16 | 22.54% |
| Hello, my name is Bob Chapek |
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43 | 60.56% |
| Total: | 71 votes | ||
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Flux is a lot of interesting ideas and characters, but thrown together in a way that makes very little sense. Today's listen was Shadow of the Daleks 1 and 2, and its one of the more experimental releases featuring the Daleks. Brilliantly, it establishes early that this is both a Dalek story and a Time War story, but keeps both elements at arm's length for most of the set. Instead, we get the Fifth Doctor flitting from short story to short story, each with a small, confined setting featuring the same four faces playing different characters over and over again. There's some really inventive and clever stories, and the Daleks are weaved into the narrative in a very clever way, and it plays to Davison's strengths, in a very stripped down way - no companions, just eight stories. And it leads to a moody and sad ending. I grabbed them in a recent sale, and it was well worth it.
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Nov 29, 2022 01:15
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| # ? Jun 1, 2024 14:45 |
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Yeah, Flux has some excellent ideas and concepts but just refuses to engage or explore them in any way at all. Chibnall proposes that at some point in the past there was a war between Time and Space, the 4th and 5th dimensions as separate sides in a huge battle, instead of the usual ‘Time and Space’ as one, and then does precisely zero on expanding or explaining that surprisingly fertile thought. Doesn’t pick up on it at all, and it’s just so frustrating, because that’s a really good idea!
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Nov 29, 2022 02:53
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The_Doctor posted:Yeah, Flux has some excellent ideas and concepts but just refuses to engage or explore them in any way at all. That last sentence is Chibnall in a nutshell. Both him and Moffat have amazing ideas, and while Moffat can stumble and get bloated and OTT, when he connects he knocks it out if the park. Chibnall never seems to be able to execute.
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Nov 29, 2022 03:36
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Moffat's run was amazing pretty much the whole way through, even when it was dodgy. Chibnall only managed about three good episodes and he had to bring back most living Doctors to achieve one of them.
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Nov 29, 2022 05:27
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The_Doctor posted:Yeah, Flux has some excellent ideas and concepts but just refuses to engage or explore them in any way at all. Time even shows up and has a conversation with the Doctor (who I guess isn't "Time's Champion" in Chibnall's eyes), threatening her with a final death that seems completely forgotten by the time Power of the Doctor rolls around. It's amazing how much promise Chibnall squanders in Flux, but I give him credit for at least having a lot of bonkers ideas even if he couldn't seem to execute most of them with any degree of effectiveness. Boring Chibnall is much worse.
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Nov 29, 2022 05:36
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If I'm thinking about it (and honestly being kinda generous), I think Chibnall never quite found his own voice in Doctor Who, but was actually fairly good at replicating what works in others'. The Power of the Doctor felt like an attempt at an RTD finale, but if I'm honest it's at least a fairly good attempt at one, it might actually work better than some of the actual RTD finales. And Village of the Angels is pretty clearly his attempt at Moffat Horror, but he kinda did it better than Moffat did half the time.
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Nov 29, 2022 05:53
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Cleretic posted:If I'm thinking about it (and honestly being kinda generous), I think Chibnall never quite found his own voice in Doctor Who, but was actually fairly good at replicating what works in others'. The Power of the Doctor felt like an attempt at an RTD finale, but if I'm honest it's at least a fairly good attempt at one, it might actually work better than some of the actual RTD finales. And Village of the Angels is pretty clearly his attempt at Moffat Horror, but he kinda did it better than Moffat did half the time. PotD aped a fair bit of Journey's End, down to having past companions come in and help fly the TARDIS Kate's sacrifice wasn't dissimilar to Harriet Jones (Former Prime Minister) either
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Nov 29, 2022 06:37
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Vinylshadow posted:PotD aped a fair bit of Journey's End, down to having past companions come in and help fly the TARDIS Yeah, it's kinda Journey's End taped to The Sound of Drums/Last of the Time Lords, right down to an equivalent musical scene. But at least it's good at those things, the fact we've seen it before doesn't quite mean that it's bad because of it.
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Nov 29, 2022 07:25
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Vinylshadow posted:Harriet Jones (Former Prime Minister) Yes, we know who she is.
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Nov 29, 2022 07:31
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Cleretic posted:If I'm thinking about it (and honestly being kinda generous), I think Chibnall never quite found his own voice in Doctor Who, but was actually fairly good at replicating what works in others'. The Power of the Doctor felt like an attempt at an RTD finale, but if I'm honest it's at least a fairly good attempt at one, it might actually work better than some of the actual RTD finales. And Village of the Angels is pretty clearly his attempt at Moffat Horror, but he kinda did it better than Moffat did half the time. Village of the Angels horror, its nothing like Moffats Time of the Angels imo. The words 'I didn't survive sir' is loving bone chilling. Village of the Angels was the only one of Flux that wasn't solely written by Chibnall, so which parts were his and which are Maxine Alderton's are unknown.
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Nov 29, 2022 07:49
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Chibnall when he wrote for RTD and for Moffat always felt to me like he was aping their styles (usually not all that successfully) and I used to complain about that, but given when he had his own way he brought in the Timeless Child nonsense, maybe that wasn't a bad thing! I still think he had a lot to offer in terms of production, in that he seems to be very good at putting together very talented cast and crew, and has some very high-minded ideas, it's just that unfortunately he's also doing the majority of the writing and it's the weakest part of his contributions to Who.
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Nov 29, 2022 11:03
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Infinitum posted:A good portion of the universe is literally dead at the end of the Flux and this never gets resolved. A good portion of the universe is destroyed in Logopolis and that's not mentioned again either Cleretic posted:Yeah, it's kinda Journey's End taped to The Sound of Drums/Last of the Time Lords, right down to an equivalent musical scene. But at least it's good at those things Disagree really strongly. Chibnall is bad at writing, regardless of the content; there's no flow, no continuity of ideas and themes, and for all that Rusty got distracted by shiny things when writing he at least tries to tie things in. Chibnall's stories all feel like the final part of a TV programme you've not watched any of, where all the stuff to make it make sense is elsewhere.
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Nov 29, 2022 11:19
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MrL_JaKiri posted:Chibnall's stories all feel like the final part of a TV programme you've not watched any of, where all the stuff to make it make sense is elsewhere. 100% this. Just for example, Power of the Doctor started in media res and then never bothered to fill in what happened before. It’s a constant state of ‘well, why is that happening?’
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Nov 29, 2022 11:34
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The_Doctor posted:100% this. Just for example, Power of the Doctor started in media res and then never bothered to fill in what happened before. It’s a constant state of ‘well, why is that happening?’ And then the next question is inevitably ‘why on earth did that NEED to happen?’
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Nov 29, 2022 14:43
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Don't most who episodes start a little bit in media res? Showing up to a distress call isn't crazy out of place.
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Nov 29, 2022 17:49
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Doronin posted:My wife and I have been catching up on Who since we remembered the Doctor was supposed to regenerate again and wanted to see how we got there. However, what was the overall reception to the most recent season? I just watched it last week and I felt there were some really good bits that just fell apart as Chibnall tried to turn it into an epic narrative. Village of the Angels was really good, but when they hid the cliffhanger I knew there wasn't going to be a worthwhile resolution because there never with him. And drat, the Timeless Child poo poo is awful on so many levels...
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Nov 29, 2022 18:00
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ikanreed posted:Don't most who episodes start a little bit in media res? A lot of doctor who does start in media res to an extent, yes. But when RTD or Moffat did it it was kind of "The doctor and his companion(s) also do other things off screen, but are interrupted by this new interesting adventure", whereas with Chibnell at least once (I think the first one with the dog aliens? I'm not 100%) I felt like we were interrupting a more interesting thing to have a kind of poo poo adventure. Like the thing they were talking about in the cold open sounded much better than the episode I'm now sitting through.
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Nov 29, 2022 18:09
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I maintain that The Timeless Child stuff was actually a great idea done terribly. Having the Time Lords be the aristocracy that stole everything that made them special was a great way for them to continue representing real-world power structures. But making The Doctor be the center of that was poo poo. If it had to be somebody we know, it should've been The Master.
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Nov 29, 2022 20:17
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Or just have the Timeless Child be out there somewhere, and never follow up or confirm who it is.
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Nov 29, 2022 22:24
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Since the entity from Power of the Doctor (which I at first assumed would be one of those "creation" aliens from The Battle of Name I Can't Remember) instinctively took on the form of somebody/something that the viewer would feel inclined to protect, I'm sad we never saw it from The Master's POV simply so we could see that it was seemingly The Master chained up there.The_Doctor posted:Or just have the Timeless Child be out there somewhere, and never follow up or confirm who it is. Yaz: So she's just out there somewhere? Is she okay? Doctor: Oh I'm sure she's fine. Besides, I promised her that one day I shall come back.... yes, one day 
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Nov 29, 2022 22:29
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LividLiquid posted:I maintain that The Timeless Child stuff was actually a great idea done terribly. The Time Lords stealing the ability to regenerate from an alien from another dimension is not something I think any fans would have been opposed, even though it still would've been bad to learn it from the Master monologuing to the Doctor in the Matrix after having destroyed Gallifrey again. But the Time Lords getting that from the Doctor and then using her as a secret agent for who knows how long? And that secret agent doctor having the police box TARDIS? Eeeeh.
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Nov 29, 2022 22:53
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Fair Bear Maiden posted:The Time Lords stealing the ability to regenerate from an alien from another dimension is not something I think any fans would have been opposed, even though it still would've been bad to learn it from the Master monologuing to the Doctor in the Matrix after having destroyed Gallifrey again. Don't forget that half the universe seemed to know about the Timeless Child so they could drop cryptic lines about it and mock the Doctor for not knowing about it.
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Nov 29, 2022 22:57
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Random Stranger posted:Don't forget that half the universe seemed to know about the Timeless Child so they could drop cryptic lines about it and mock the Doctor for not knowing about it. I was gonna complain about the fact that somehow Chibnall seems to think that the Time Lord who discovered regeneration (and space travel apparently???) would be more important than the ones who figured out how to travel in time and space, but frankly none of that backstory is good except for the bit about the Timeless Child being the source of regeneration.
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Nov 29, 2022 23:02
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Jerusalem posted:Since the entity from Power of the Doctor (which I at first assumed would be one of those "creation" aliens from The Battle of Name I Can't Remember) instinctively took on the form of somebody/something that the viewer would feel inclined to protect, I'm sad we never saw it from The Master's POV simply so we could see that it was seemingly The Master chained up there. Given the Master has killed themself, I’m pretty sure he doesn’t qualify as wanting to protect themself. It would have been interesting if he saw Yaz, though. Every time the new series has head-faked in the direction of Susan, it’s gone nowhere. New series fans probably don’t care, but it annoys me something fierce. Carole Ann Ford is 82, showrunners. Waiting until she dies to recast is just needless and cruel.
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Nov 30, 2022 01:00
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SHE'S STILL AROUND AND NOBODY'S DONE THIS!? What the gently caress are they waiting for?!
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Nov 30, 2022 02:17
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Jerusalem posted:Since the entity from Power of the Doctor (which I at first assumed would be one of those "creation" aliens from The Battle of Name I Can't Remember) instinctively took on the form of somebody/something that the viewer would feel inclined to protect AND ANOTHER THING about that loving episode: what kind of an rear end-backwards decision is it to introduce the McGuffin as a small child, then always show it as a CGI energy monster, instead of the other way around? You show a little girl in chains, cut in a couple frames of a digital squid wriggling around so you know it's a space fucker and it's too stressed to keep its image up or whatever, and then it's just a girl. It's cheaper and the audience cares about it more! It's such a small thing, but it's almost impressive to get it so wrong.
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Nov 30, 2022 02:23
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Rochallor posted:AND ANOTHER THING about that loving episode: what kind of an rear end-backwards decision is it to introduce the McGuffin as a small child, then always show it as a CGI energy monster, instead of the other way around? You show a little girl in chains, cut in a couple frames of a digital squid wriggling around so you know it's a space fucker and it's too stressed to keep its image up or whatever, and then it's just a girl. It's cheaper and the audience cares about it more! As I was watching, I honestly thought for a bit that the girl on the train was actually a little girl, and the energy thing was projecting itself as the girl. Just a separate issue, and the doctor saw it like that because the girl was on her mind, and we'd be getting back to that plot eventually.
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Nov 30, 2022 05:26
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LividLiquid posted:SHE'S STILL AROUND AND NOBODY'S DONE THIS!? Big Finish has brought her back and continued her story numerous times. Quite frankly I could do without a tv version decanonizing theirs. Jerusalem posted:Chibnall when he wrote for RTD and for Moffat always felt to me like he was aping their styles (usually not all that successfully) and I used to complain about that, but given when he had his own way he brought in the Timeless Child nonsense, maybe that wasn't a bad thing! Has anything come out about behind the scenes issues with his era? I know there were a lot of backstage issues with RTD and Moffat, but I haven't been paying attention lately. If he is good at wrangling production, it's a strong as argument as any to ditch the showrunner model and go back to an Executive Producer and Script Editor. If Chibnall had taken on the John Nathan-Turner role of logistics, cast relations, hiring crew, getting filming locations, being a public facing cheerleader, and dealing with network suits, it would let an RTD focus on pure creative.
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Nov 30, 2022 05:42
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Astroman posted:Has anything come out about behind the scenes issues with his era? I know there were a lot of backstage issues with RTD and Moffat, but I haven't been paying attention lately. I don't think there have been massive BTS issues - the rate of episodes getting sparser and sparser every year is a symptom of something, but that had already started with Moffat. I do get the sense that for the network Chibnall is a steady hand who can be trusted to scramble together a required number of filmable episodes each year. That number may be just 1 or 2 and those episodes may not be any good, but having a bad episode that you can actually make in budget and on time is almost always better than a good episode that you can't. Chibnall wrote up some of his favourite memories from his time as showrunner before The Power of the Doctor aired and almost all of those were about production-related things like casting, set design, marketing campaigns, etc. He does seem to like the production side of things and I have no reason to believe he isn't fairly good at that. That said, RTD is obviously capable of handling the production side as well, and especially when it comes to these aspects of the job: Astroman posted:being a public facing cheerleader, and dealing with network suits I have much more faith in RTD in these roles than I have in Chib.
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Nov 30, 2022 06:12
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What I've heard is that there were some big issues, but no one's talking. I know a little bit about what happened with the Easter special though -- they cut a lot of scenes in the villiage, and then redubbed all the Asian guest stars because there were concerns about the representation involved. From what I've heard, the original cut had the actors speaking with thick Chinese accent English. The Sea Devil masks were originally meant to move, and they didn't, so the CGI was a last minute solve. There are probably a few more things, I'll see what I can dredge up. Edit: the sea devil masks were apparently being reworked mid production, before they apparentlysettled on the CGI compromise last minute. The masks from Orphan 55 were also apparently a massive ball ache. Open Source Idiom fucked around with this message at 06:44 on Nov 30, 2022 |
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Nov 30, 2022 06:36
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Narsham posted:Given the Master has killed themself, I’m pretty sure he doesn’t qualify as wanting to protect themself. That's the thing, he'd see himself up there and go,"Oh look, it's the thing I care about most and long to protect.... I'M GOING TO KILL IT!  "
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Nov 30, 2022 10:43
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Forktoss posted:Chibnall wrote up some of his favourite memories from his time as showrunner before The Power of the Doctor aired and almost all of those were about production-related things like casting, set design, marketing campaigns, etc. He does seem to like the production side of things and I have no reason to believe he isn't fairly good at that. The best thing I can say about the Chibnall era is the show looked great. Well, except the TARDIS set. In general, though, the way the show was designed and shot looked fantastic. Shame they couldn't tell interesting stories as well.
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Nov 30, 2022 15:12
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I mean even before the world shut down there was a year between Seasons 11 and 12 despite the show going from 13 episodes to 10.
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Dec 1, 2022 02:47
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Has there ever been three years in a row with a new series featuring the same Doctor since the reboot? This really seems like it's been normal the whole time to me. But it's the Beeb. I'm just surprised whenever they make more of anything ever.
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Dec 1, 2022 04:43
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LividLiquid posted:Has there ever been three years in a row with a new series featuring the same Doctor since the reboot? Seasons 1 - 4 came out annually between 2005 and 2008.
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Dec 1, 2022 04:49
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Timby posted:Seasons 1 - 4 came out annually between 2005 and 2008. Plus Sarah Jane Adventures and Torchwood! They were making television.
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Dec 1, 2022 09:27
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The_Doctor posted:Or just have the Timeless Child be out there somewhere, and never follow up or confirm who it is. Just like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oy2QfzB3QIg&t=12s Just effortlessly effusing concepts that should never be expanded upon. 
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Dec 1, 2022 10:05
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Timby posted:Seasons 1 - 4 came out annually between 2005 and 2008.
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Dec 1, 2022 19:33
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Four was a full season FOLLOWED by a year of specials.
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Dec 1, 2022 19:36
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No - season 4 (2008) was a regular season and ended with Journey’s End. The following year (2009) was the specials season and ended in Tennant’s regeneration.
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Dec 1, 2022 19:36
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