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Tiny Timbs posted:i have now discovered the satisfaction of building tiling black box blueprints i have no idea what tiling black box blueprints are but ratios can gently caress off when i run out of something i build more factories for it. if my belt/sorter isn't moving poo poo fast enough i upgrade it. this strat has worked well enough for two dyson spheres so far
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Nov 25, 2022 06:51
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I’m guessing tiling means repeatable and black box means raw resources in, finished product out (no in/out of intermediate products). The oil reforming recipe makes a good example of this. You can pretty easily set up a self-contained block that has crude oil and coal in and nothing but plastic out.
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Nov 25, 2022 17:27
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Its weird / interesting that lategame oil and its processing chain is completely worthless because you can easily get its products from other rare resources Although oil in itself is a rare resource that only spawns on appropriate planets outside your starting one (I.E. ones that had a bunch of life that got compressed down into it over the years) E: Looking through you do need plastic for one lategame recipe that feeds into the rockets but you don't need it in large quantities. Organic crystals can spawn fairly regularly outside the starting system, sulfuric acid can generate and be pumped out indefinitely on lava planets and you can get hydrogen from a bunch of other sources lategame Feldegast42 fucked around with this message at 17:39 on Nov 25, 2022 |
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Nov 25, 2022 17:34
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I really hope that the military stuff balances out some of that. Plastics need more uses as they exist for organic crystals, fiber optics and nothing else. Meanwhile copper/titanium also really aren't used that much compared to how much of them spawn, especially not compared to iron.
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Nov 25, 2022 18:24
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Yea copper goes into like 3 or 4 things directly, I think? Electromagnets, circuit boards, microcrystals, and particle traps (maybe?). But there’s an iron in almost everything, and iron and copper seem to spawn at roughly equivalent rates. Way out of proportion on the amount spawned/amount needed, either way.
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Nov 25, 2022 19:55
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Yup. T1 chips use copper, the transistors for T2 chips use copper (which also use T1 chips) and then...T3 use the plane filters which are titanium, glass (stone), a fuckton of hydrogen and either carbon (organic crystals) or optical crystals. As compared to motors which are iron, more iron, even more iron, and some carbon. Oh and T1 chips also use iron. And everything structural uses iron/steel, titanium, or both. The DSP crew seems on the ball on most other things and I can absolutely see the resource balance thinking has a bunch of extra titanium and copper because you're going to be using it for shields, turrets and your own warship drones.
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Nov 25, 2022 21:14
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Alkydere posted:The DSP crew seems on the ball on most other things and I can absolutely see the resource balance thinking has a bunch of extra titanium and copper because you're going to be using it for shields, turrets and your own warship drones. I could see copper being part of some kind of shielding (either actual shields or something like a faraday cage to confuse the enemy sensors), and titanium being something offensive (weapon, ammo, or both). Either way, there’s plenty of space for them to play in. I wasn’t expecting anything akin to the sprays at all, so I’m sure they’ll do something cool/fun regarding the other resources that are still in excess for the moment.
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Nov 25, 2022 21:44
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I used up the copper on my starter planet slightly before the iron in my current run, not sure how. I think there may have been significantly less copper to start with
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Nov 25, 2022 23:13
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Alkydere posted:Yup. T1 chips use copper, the transistors for T2 chips use copper (which also use T1 chips) and then...T3 use the plane filters which are titanium, glass (stone), a fuckton of hydrogen and either carbon (organic crystals) or optical crystals. This imbalance existed for quite a long time in factorio, too. And then we had another long stretch where it was oscillating between mostly iron early, mostly copper middle game, and iron heavy late game. In the final release things were mostly balanced after the early game, but the changes came very late in the development cycle. Maybe the monster defence uses mostly copper, we can hope.
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Nov 25, 2022 23:57
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Assuming that resources are effective infinte above a certain vein exploit tech level, what is the benefit of proliferation aside from compactness?
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Nov 27, 2022 15:29
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Faster downstream production
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Nov 27, 2022 15:47
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Right but that's not anything you couldn't get by building more production.
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Nov 27, 2022 15:52
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zoux posted:Assuming that resources are effective infinte above a certain vein exploit tech level, what is the benefit of proliferation aside from compactness?
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Nov 27, 2022 16:57
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zoux posted:Right but that's not anything you couldn't get by building more production. Not having to do that as much seems like a great benefit
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Nov 27, 2022 17:00
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zoux posted:Right but that's not anything you couldn't get by building more production. There is only one resource the player's tech cannot give the player: the player's attention/brainpower. Spraying allows the player to cut out so much bullshit and save time. Just a massive force multiplier.
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Nov 27, 2022 17:13
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It's compound interest for your factory
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Nov 27, 2022 18:14
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Alkydere posted:There is only one resource the player's tech cannot give the player: the player's attention/brainpower. Really there’s at least two, the other being UPS. I’m not sure if proliferation helps there but I would think so?
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Nov 27, 2022 18:43
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Researching infinite resources takes quite a long time, during which spraying is immensely helpful. At the mass building stage you are probably using blueprints exclusively, which means that if you incorporate sprayers into your blueprints from the start you are getting extra products for 0 effort
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Nov 27, 2022 18:48
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It's a little like asking what's the benefit of faster belts
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Nov 27, 2022 20:34
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Gadzuko posted:Researching infinite resources takes quite a long time, during which spraying is immensely helpful. At the mass building stage you are probably using blueprints exclusively, which means that if you incorporate sprayers into your blueprints from the start you are getting extra products for 0 effort What level of vein utilization is good to shoot for? I'm at 11 right now. I have to say, it's very satisfying to *finally* get a good rocket and solar sail production going. Seeing the EM launchers blasting away with rockets launching in sync is chefkiss.
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Nov 27, 2022 22:24
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Watching your dyson sphere get built is way cooler than actually having it be complete
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Nov 28, 2022 00:00
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Feldegast42 posted:Watching your dyson sphere get built is way cooler than actually having it be complete While true that just means you move to another system with a more interesting looking sun and build a new one there.
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Nov 28, 2022 00:21
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I played a shitload of this game and don't know what spraying is at all. Did they add it?
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Nov 28, 2022 04:24
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Yes, it's a gizmo, that when used on inputs, will either speed up the production or cause additional output products to magically appear (use this mode).
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Nov 28, 2022 07:57
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Thinking about throughput from an ore world to a forge one: Once you have stable ILS, and, say, you head to your lava world to begin exploitation, how many ILSs do you place? Do you fill all 12 slots with incoming MkIII belts, or do you try to keep a ratio? More towers are more drones transporting more ore but maybe it doesn't make that much of difference? Lemme amend that, I'm sure you can brute force it by dropping tons of towers that do nothing but take in and transport ore, but I'm wondering how much of that is a marginal benefit and how much is necessary zoux fucked around with this message at 01:41 on Nov 30, 2022 |
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Nov 30, 2022 01:29
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zoux posted:Thinking about throughput from an ore world to a forge one: Once you have stable ILS, and, say, you head to your lava world to begin exploitation, how many ILSs do you place? Do you fill all 12 slots with incoming MkIII belts, or do you try to keep a ratio? More towers are more drones transporting more ore but maybe it doesn't make that much of difference? On all my mining worlds, I put down a single ILS with PLS nearby ore patches, usually trying to put them near 2-3 if possible. I've never needed more than 1 ILS on a mining planet, but IDK someone may have better math on that?
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Nov 30, 2022 01:53
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I’ve run a complex of 1 ILS demanding ore, feeding 4 with warpers/vessels. I figured 40 outbound ships was better than 10, plus another 10 from whatever station was receiving. The receiver for this was inverted, 4 stations demanding and feeding one that was supplying a planet with the ore in question. There was always ore coming into the one, and it was nearly enough to keep the one station supplied despite the massive number of drones coming in for pickup. It also gave a chance to spray things on both sides, and moved a lot of ore (obviously used a ton of warpers as well  )
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Nov 30, 2022 02:25
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I just chuck down an ILS for each group of ore patches I'm mining and feed them directly into it, usually around 3 or so. It might be slightly more power efficient to use PLS beyond the first one on the planet but it's not hard to just chuck down an extra power plant or two.
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Nov 30, 2022 03:49
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I exclusively use ILS once you get them, its easy to mass produce and by the time I'm exploiting whole planets for ore I have the resources to use artificial suns to power things
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Nov 30, 2022 14:57
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I'll still use Planetary towers in places where I'm making a lot of stuff, since the way the build times work out I'm usually going to have an overflow of them even if all of my IP tower machines are running full-tilt. My early mining outpost worlds likely have a few incorporated, naturally. I find that I need several IP towers requesting each type of ore on my forge world in order to keep enough on-planet to avoid Artificial Shortages (the worst kind of shortages!), in the midgame, and that receiving capacity in general becomes the bottleneck (until the forge world has more potential request capacity than there is supply capacity throughout the entire cluster). As a rule during this phase I'd like to have two IP towers minimum per outpost world, one using 2-3 slots for shipping in warpers and power resources. Obviously everything being mined gets at least one slot in one of those towers, and whatever the main idea of this expansion is gets one in each; if I do put down a third IP tower generally it gets a slot in that too. Once I've got Advanced Miners available on demand 0 Planetary towers pop up outside manufacturing or smelting hubs for sure, and I might even clean up old Planetary tower/regular Miner installations and put down advanced miners, if I happen to land near one.
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Dec 1, 2022 01:09
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BadMedic posted:On all my mining worlds, I put down a single ILS with PLS nearby ore patches, usually trying to put them near 2-3 if possible. I've never needed more than 1 ILS on a mining planet, but IDK someone may have better math on that? I only use ILSes on mining planets. There's only a small sliver of the game where the cost difference matters, and I'd rather not introduce or think about the possibility of a bottleneck, plus it's extra work to make a distribution hub. I think the only time you should use a PLS is if you want to make double sure that an intermediate product never leaves the planet.
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Dec 1, 2022 02:47
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I can see using PLS's a whole lot if its a processor optimization thing, where having only a few ILS ports on a planet makes things easier for the game to calculate. I don't know enough about how DSP handles things to say anything about that though.
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Dec 1, 2022 03:01
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I have a bunch of smelting and assembling blocks blueprinted, with Planetary towers all hooked up, consciously so that I can put my first ones down when I'm still in the "ordering all the materials from logistics and handcrafting every tower" stage. Once I'm past that it's a matter of not needing the extra drone-logistics slot in each build, and having already set up the overflow Planetary towers to split off before going into the sprayer on their way to become IP towers. Also the addition of a fourth slot to Planetary towers made all kinds of poo poo a lot easier, every three-input build can handle that block's output internally instead of needing to be hooked up to some outside infrastructure and every two-or-less-input build can request its own spray with the tower. I assume most posters here have already worked personal-level logistics requesters to handle spray distribution into their blueprints, but on the off chance someone hasn't, logistics settings for those are saved in the blueprints just like the Supply/Request settings for towers.
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Dec 1, 2022 03:54
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Dr. Stab posted:I think the only time you should use a PLS is if you want to make double sure that an intermediate product never leaves the planet. You could just set it to remote storage and accomplish the same thing.
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Dec 1, 2022 16:10
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Yes ILS is strictly better than a PLS. The only advantage they have is that they can be placed closer to each other (but not closer to ILSes) and lower power. If either space or power were limited in this game it might matter but they aren't so it doesn't - except for that one sliver of the game when you are transition into ILSes. I think an interesting restriction would be on the number of ILSes you can place on a planet, or limiting placement to the lower latitudes like actual space elevators would be. But then I'd probably just get a mod to take the limit off ._.
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Dec 1, 2022 16:16
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zoux posted:I think an interesting restriction would be on the number of ILSes you can place on a planet, or limiting placement to the lower latitudes like actual space elevators would be. But then I'd probably just get a mod to take the limit off ._. Already exists a little bit, with orbital collectors at equator-only on gas giants. its already semi-annoying there, but I get why they did it
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Dec 1, 2022 16:19
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Gas collectors and gas giants feel like systems which are placeholders for something more interesting or at least less awful than how placing them works now tbh.
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Dec 1, 2022 17:50
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I just use a blueprint. I gather people don't do that so I assume it's something I'm getting from the Blueprint Tweaks mod, which you should get because it lets you bp a 40-ring of gas giant collectors. I'm a broken record on this but I really, really dislike the fake bottleneck created by the drone mechanics, and that's most apparent when you are laying down collectors one at a time. I'd be happy if there was no mech at all and you just built stuff.
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Dec 1, 2022 17:54
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drat these new logistics bots are nice.
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Dec 2, 2022 02:10
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I have never found a steel set up I like, what do you guys do? With that production time, can you beat a simple 1-to-1
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Dec 3, 2022 16:29
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