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Lately my irritation has moved on from dumb cameos in Solo and Rogue One and more into the realm of every single Clone Wars character Filoni has ever touched finding their way into current star wars TV shows decades after the character sshould have retired. It was silly back in the old EU and it's silly now and it actively harms Mando S2 and Book of Boba Fett. Yeah Cad Bane was awesome to see in live action but he's really got nothing to do with the story they failed to tell besides being a surprise final boss fight.
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Nov 30, 2022 23:38
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Wasn't the Dr. Evazan cameo in R1 the result of a subplot that got entirely excised from the movie in rewrites
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Nov 30, 2022 23:41
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Arc Hammer posted:Lately my irritation has moved on from dumb cameos in Solo and Rogue One and more into the realm of every single Clone Wars character Filoni has ever touched finding their way into current star wars TV shows decades after the character sshould have retired. It was silly back in the old EU and it's silly now and it actively harms Mando S2 and Book of Boba Fett. Yeah Cad Bane was awesome to see in live action but he's really got nothing to do with the story they failed to tell besides being a surprise final boss fight. This is going to venture into hot take territory but I think all the Filoni SW cartoons are trash and I hate that he's wormed his way into just bringing his cartoon poo poo to live action shows and ruining them.
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Nov 30, 2022 23:41
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Hyrax Attack! posted:Would be interested to hear your reasons for thinking Solo is superior. I thought Solo was a waste with a poorly cast lead, a plot checking boxes for how he acquired his name/allies/ship, and as others have observed the character is behaving wildly different than the immoral opportunist he was at the start of new hope. One of the most interesting parts of his background as an imperial is barely covered with deleted scenes and slapstick, and Donald Glover is good but can’t carry it alone. I'm really put off by the first part of R1, it's even more of a mess than Solo's bloated middle section imo. I actually liked the lead, and was shocked he did "immature Han Solo" way better than Glover's young Lando (which prior to release I had been really looking forward to). Han starts as naive and caring, I thought "guy becomes hardened and jaded by everyone he cares about betraying him" was an interesting character arc. One complaint I saw with Andor was the lack of prominent aliens, Solo nailed it with both Rio and especially Chewbacca feeling like serious characters with their own motivations. Chewie/Han chemistry was really good, and a highlight of the film for me. I agree that that there could have been more time spent fleshing out Solo's time as an imperial grunt, but it's better than Jyn's backstory, which is told entirely through exposition (outside of the quite good opening scene). Like, you're a thief who was raised by an extremist Rebel cell, that's an interesting backstory. Too bad we see none of that. The train robbery is a fantastic set piece, better than a lot of the end of R1 imo (I'm a sucker for music with chanting, the robbery track "Marauders Arrive" was excellent in context). The Han "Solo" name scene and the Darth Maul scene were laughable, no defending those. Ultimately it's pure personal preference, I'd give R1 a 7 and Solo a 7.5.
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Dec 1, 2022 00:05
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Jose Oquendo posted:This is going to venture into hot take territory but I think all the Filoni SW cartoons are trash and I hate that he's wormed his way into just bringing his cartoon poo poo to live action shows and ruining them. Ahsoka works alright in live action and I could see Hera being okay with decent writing and with a good performance, but I am singularly uninterested in Ezras time travel space whale blue man group bullshit which is unfortunately the thread that he's desperate to resolve by introducing these characters. Hell, I'm way more interested in the Dr. Aphra-verse making the live action jump. RE: Solo I share a lot of complaints. I'd add that ending with him being a guy that sacrifices a payday to help the incipient Rebellion is injurious to his Star Wars 77 journey where he starts out as an amoral mercenary and sacrifices getting clear with his payday to turn the ship around and help the imperiled Rebellion. I don't know how I'd re-write it. Hell, make Enfys Nest sympathetic in some other way besides literally fighting the Empire. Owlbear Camus fucked around with this message at 00:10 on Dec 1, 2022 |
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Dec 1, 2022 00:07
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Rochallor posted:This is by far the biggest problem with Rogue One. Once it finally settles down it's really quite good, but the first hour is an absolute loving mess. Vader is good to great, and I love the implicit relationship between him and Tarkin, where they don't have a scene together but you still get a strong sense of how well they work together. There's a focus on character you don't see as much elsewhere, perhaps because all the new characters have to have their entire arcs in this one movie. And I think that, like most of the good post-Lucas content, it makes you rethink certain elements of the original films. In particular, you can ask why the Death Star doesn't have at least a small fleet escorting it; Rogue One makes it clear that's a political and power decision in the same way you see Krennic and Tarkin trying to hold political control over the Death Star itself; if Tarkin had allowed an accompanying fleet, Vader would have been in command, but with Vader as a passenger on the Death Star he's effectively a subordinate.
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Dec 1, 2022 00:13
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Panzeh posted:Rogue One was rewritten a lot but i don't know if the first half, even the old first half was really worth saving- it just doesn't work so well, it would have served the film to just be an action-adventure piece with the characters in place rather than the weird checkboxes of making sure everyone had their arc. It was weird when they switched Jyn from being a fugitive from the Rebellion to being a fugitive from the Empire, especially because they kept the line of the Rebel Officer dressing her down for all her crimes. Isn't doing crimes against the Empire a good thing? Watching Rogue One after Andor makes it feel like watching the last episode of each arc, where you're told by the music and performances that you're supposed to feel things about various characters' sacrifices, but you don't really have enough context to do so. Gilroy definitely made the best of a bad situation; there's only so much of a $250m movie you can reshoot. Solo was half pandering callbacks to the OT and half transparently laying the foundation for the Han Solo Cinematic Universe to the detriment of telling a compelling story. It's a shame Disney got cold feet about Lord and Miller telling a breezy and fun Han Solo origin story, so it was kinda fun watching them eat poo poo at the box office.
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Dec 1, 2022 00:24
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Owlbear Camus posted:Ahsoka works alright in live action and I could see Hera being okay with decent writing and with a good performance, but I am singularly uninterested in Ezras time travel space whale blue man group bullshit which is unfortunately the thread that he's desperate to resolve by introducing these characters. I really didn't like the live action Ahsoka, I don't like the actor but the costume looks bad, like Halloween costume bad. I don't think it's just a live action thing either, since Shaaki Ti looks alright in the prequels. There's just something off about it. I'm in agreement that you should keep the cartoon characters to a minimum. Cad Bane looked neat, I guess, but it was awful having to pretend he was Boba Fett's long-anticipated nemesis. I love Dr. Aphra, but there’s no way they wouldn't screw her up on the screen, let's be real.
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Dec 1, 2022 00:30
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Hyrax Attack! posted:What were your guesses about what they were building in the prison? At first I thought it was K2S0’s model and Cassian would reprogram one for an escape, then I thought they were probe droids, then during the reveal before the camera zoomed out thought they were TIE cockpits. I thought it might be a component of either an AT-ST, or a small Turbolaser mount. It looked like there could be powered joints to allow what was on top to both rotate and tilt. Just a simple piece of war materiel that the empire needs loads of.
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Dec 1, 2022 00:39
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Probably star wars is a better setting the less everything revolves around thos death stars. The end credits scene isn't a mortal sin for the show or anything but I do kind of hate it
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Dec 1, 2022 00:42
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No Mods No Masters posted:Probably star wars is a better setting the less everything revolves around thos death stars. The end credits scene isn't a mortal sin for the show or anything but I do kind of hate it Gilroy's probably a little too diplomatic to admit it, but I wonder if that's the one studio note he had to shut up and take. It really doesn't seem like a "post credit cookie" kind of show, and one can imagine the thought process of "fine, I'll give them this to get my way in everything else. It's after the credits so it's not really part of the vision."
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Dec 1, 2022 00:45
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Man I have beyond zero interest in seeing any more cartoon characters appear in future live-action bits. You'd be intentionally hamstringing future projects with all the baggage of a character's plot lines from kids' cartoons, which definitely seems like a step backwards from what Andor is doing. I was convinced (trolled?) into watching some of Rebels and boy howdy 90s me would have eaten that poo poo up, but definitely not now.
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Dec 1, 2022 00:46
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Owlbear Camus posted:Gilroy's probably a little too diplomatic to admit it, but I wonder if that's the one studio note he had to shut up and take. It was completely obvious what they were making from the beginning of the prison arc. I don't know how much harder they could have said "slave labor building individual components to something enormous" when the show is famously set a few years before Yavin.
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Dec 1, 2022 01:07
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Owlbear Camus posted:It really doesn't seem like a "post credit cookie" kind of show, and one can imagine the thought process of "fine, I'll give them this to get my way in everything else. It's after the credits so it's not really part of the vision." It also sounds like he feels strongly about the show leading into Rogue One, so why not connect the Death Star to it? I thought it was neat to see the explaination for what the prisoners were building and the foreboding of what's to come, especially from the "blind" Death Star that we see finally completed and activated in RO.
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Dec 1, 2022 01:08
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The empire builds a lot of enormous mechanical things in a big loving galaxy. It wasn't obvious unless you have star wars brain
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Dec 1, 2022 01:09
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Narratively it made the most sense.
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Dec 1, 2022 01:13
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Fascism tries to make you complicit in your own destruction. This is just making the metaphorical actual, and also giving a little more weight to their break out. Everything matters. Every little bit of rebellion, big or small, is a step towards freedom. If that work camp didn't break free could the Death Star have been finished even slightly faster? Because it's a question of days, if everything didn't come together just how it did it might never have worked out in the end.
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Dec 1, 2022 01:14
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At first I thought we were never going to find out what they were making but when Andor said "Whatever we're making here, it's clearly something they need." it pretty much had to the be the Death Star.
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Dec 1, 2022 01:22
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Mulva posted:Fascism tries to make you complicit in your own destruction. This is just making the metaphorical actual, and also giving a little more weight to their break out. Everything matters. Every little bit of rebellion, big or small, is a step towards freedom. If that work camp didn't break free could the Death Star have been finished even slightly faster? Because it's a question of days, if everything didn't come together just how it did it might never have worked out in the end. theflyingexecutive posted:It was weird when they switched Jyn from being a fugitive from the Rebellion to being a fugitive from the Empire, especially because they kept the line of the Rebel Officer dressing her down for all her crimes. Isn't doing crimes against the Empire a good thing? He doesn't dress her down, he recites a list of reasons why the Empire is mad at her and then says "but if they knew your real name they'd get REALLY mad". Carrot and stick: we could expose you to the Empire but we haven't... yet.
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Dec 1, 2022 01:43
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No Mods No Masters posted:The empire builds a lot of enormous mechanical things in a big loving galaxy. It wasn't obvious unless you have star wars brain Star Wars brain aka knowing basic facts about where the main character of the show ends up.
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Dec 1, 2022 02:07
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karmicknight posted:Star Wars brain aka knowing basic facts about where the main character of the show ends up. Yeah, thinking that because he died on a mission related to the death star, a random prison he got sent to 5 years before that had to be related to it also is pretty textbook star wars brain
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Dec 1, 2022 02:17
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Or just dramatic irony.
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Dec 1, 2022 02:18
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No Mods No Masters posted:Yeah, thinking that because he died on a mission related to the death star, a random prison he got sent to 5 years before that had to be related to it also is pretty textbook star wars brain My poster have you heard of dramatic irony E: beaten
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Dec 1, 2022 02:19
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Speaking of irony... https://twitter.com/starwars/status/1598123950428409856
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Dec 1, 2022 02:25
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For me one of andor's big successes was making the universe feel big again, like there were places and events that mattered that weren't connected just so to things we've seen already. I think the end credits scene pulls it back in the other direction somewhat, not fatally but more than I'd like. Acting like "dramatic irony" is a defense in and of itself doesn't get very far. For example if having dramatic irony is good in and of itself, you might end having to go to bat for utter poo poo like the obi wan show a lot more than you probably want to. Because that show was full of it, used terribly No Mods No Masters fucked around with this message at 02:28 on Dec 1, 2022 |
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Dec 1, 2022 02:25
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The Star Destroyer forcing itself through the nebula in Solo is one of my favorite visuals
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Dec 1, 2022 02:31
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Nemik's manifesto is basically the perfect argument for telling new stories with new people rather than relying on callbacks. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaSagLYg7Bw Random acts of insurrection, whole armies, batallions, that have no idea that they've already enlisted in the cause. Rebellion can come from anywhere, and so can the stories star wars tells. It's a big galaxy. Make it bigger, disney. There's more than just Jedi and death stars.
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Dec 1, 2022 02:34
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Star wars prequels as a whole have just abused dramatic irony nearly to the point of death. Personally I would say make things that are good on their own merits like this show for a few years before even attempting that device again, maybe by then it can feel earned again
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Dec 1, 2022 02:39
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Andor seemed like they finally understood that one of the reasons people liked Star Wars 1977 is that it showed them NEW THINGS and that was cool. I was happy to finally see a planet that wasn't Tattooine. It was bizarre that we've been re-doing Tattooine and the Death Star over and over and over again instead of just going loving bonkers and using their unlimited CGI budgets to just put us on other planets like why can't we have a show on the fungus planet that we see some Jedi get murdered in? I would be happy if every subsequent Star Wars show had zero characters from any other Star Wars thing. The best thing about Andor was that I could finally relax and watch the show and not have to anticipate recoiling and barfing in my mouth a bit when they bring in Glorp Shitto from whatever lame cartoon she was in. If there's an origin story I'm interested in, it is Jabba the Hutt. How does a slimy slug man come to live on a desert planet? The sand gets everywhere!
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Dec 1, 2022 03:09
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Sorry to keep posting about this but now that I'm chewing on it, I've come to the bad realization that "woaaah man everything is like, connected to the death star" was literally where episode 3 saw fit to leave off 17 years ago. I feel like whether you like the prequels or not that should be a little troubling, especially if you would say one of the good things about this show was bringing in new things
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Dec 1, 2022 03:14
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Mr. Grapes! posted:I was happy to finally see a planet that wasn't Tattooine. It was bizarre that we've been re-doing Tattooine and the Death Star over and over and over again instead of just going loving bonkers and using their unlimited CGI budgets to just put us on other planets like why can't we have a show on the fungus planet that we see some Jedi get murdered in? Mandalorian had some variety and I think the show benefited from it. I especially liked the ringworld they showed in S2, that's a very sci fi concept and it looked great.
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Dec 1, 2022 03:28
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No Mods No Masters posted:For me one of andor's big successes was making the universe feel big again, like there were places and events that mattered that weren't connected just so to things we've seen already. I think the end credits scene pulls it back in the other direction somewhat, not fatally but more than I'd like. I actually liked how they linked Andor to the Death Star, showing how he was a tiny part of this massive effort the Empire was making to construct a superweapon. It makes the premise of the Death Star a little more realistic to me by showing the actual logistics involved. Like of course the Empire would be using prison labor for it, and throwing people in prison for nothing to provide a steady supply of labor. Andor is just one of who knows how many millions of people involved in a galaxy-wide Manhattan Project essentially
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Dec 1, 2022 03:29
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Hirsute posted:I actually liked how they linked Andor to the Death Star, showing how he was a tiny part of this massive effort the Empire was making to construct a superweapon. It makes the premise of the Death Star a little more realistic to me by showing the actual logistics involved. Like of course the Empire would be using prison labor for it, and throwing people in prison for nothing to provide a steady supply of labor. Andor is just one of who knows how many millions of people involved in a galaxy-wide Manhattan Project essentially I do kind of like some of that too. I guess I'm not a fan of going there at all, but if we really have to, they did show the labor involved in the construction in a fairly fresh and intelligence respecting way, and the visuals of the assembly in space I also find pretty cool. That did feel like a refinement from the equivalent stuff in revenge of the sith, at least, I guess
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Dec 1, 2022 03:39
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I hope a Jedi shows up in S2 (dead, after being hanged by rebels)
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Dec 1, 2022 04:24
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Rochallor posted:This is by far the biggest problem with Rogue One. Once it finally settles down it's really quite good, but the first hour is an absolute loving mess. I didn't find it messy so much as jumpy. It all coheres perfectly fine, it just moves too quickly and doesn't do a great job establishing characters. The overall story arc is perfectly fine. And even with those flaws, I still think it's better than just about any movie outside the OT. It just is, on technical merit alone. Love Rat fucked around with this message at 04:34 on Dec 1, 2022 |
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Dec 1, 2022 04:32
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No Mods No Masters posted:Sorry to keep posting about this but now that I'm chewing on it, I've come to the bad realization that "woaaah man everything is like, connected to the death star" was literally where episode 3 saw fit to leave off 17 years ago. I feel like whether you like the prequels or not that should be a little troubling, especially if you would say one of the good things about this show was bringing in new things Andor's fate is tied to the Death Star. Since all this is a prelude to Rogue One and much of season 2 will involve the Death Star, it kind of makes sense. Sure, the parts didn't have to be Death Star parts, but if referencing the Death Star is a serious issue for someone they're gonna have have a real problem with season 2.
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Dec 1, 2022 04:40
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well why not posted:I hope a Jedi shows up in S2 (dead, after being hanged by rebels) But not like an actual neck snap hanging. Just a dumb "hang him from cables" execution like thar weak poo poo in Kenobi.
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Dec 1, 2022 04:42
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I don't deny when you drill all the way down my core issue is I really wish this wasn't a prequel. I'm certainly not crazy about the idea that season 2 has to take us up to the second rogue one starts. I should probably just be satisfied that they managed an entire season of andor not being Dramatically Ironically Fated Death Star Guy under that constraint, minus 30 bad seconds No Mods No Masters fucked around with this message at 05:06 on Dec 1, 2022 |
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Dec 1, 2022 04:45
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I forget where I heard it but it resonated. Andor is the first confident (live action?) Star Wars since the original trilogy. Everything else has blatant call backs in an attempt be like "pwease like me I did a good job it has the thing you want".
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Dec 1, 2022 04:47
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I still like the Mandalorian better. In a lot of ways, it captures the Star Wars energy in a way that's more fun. It is an adventure story about a dude on adventures, getting into trouble and making friends along the way. It could have been a saturday afternoon serial.
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Dec 1, 2022 05:11
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