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The entire idea of giving into workers' demands and not sending in men with guns to beat them down while praising the bosses is entirely alien to the Dems. They genuinely don't understand the idea. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Dec 1, 2022 12:47
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Ghost Leviathan posted:The entire idea of giving into workers' demands and not sending in men with guns to beat them down while praising the bosses is entirely alien to the Dems. They genuinely don't understand the idea. I missed the part where Joe Biden is sending in men with guns to beat down the striking workers or praising the bosses. Can you show me the statements where that happened?
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Dec 1, 2022 13:35
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Mooseontheloose posted:I missed the part where Joe Biden is sending in men with guns to beat down the striking workers or praising the bosses. Can you show me the statements where that happened? Hey, at least we've moved on from Dems machine gunning them down in droves...hyperbole baby steps?
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Dec 1, 2022 13:41
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Mooseontheloose posted:I missed the part where Joe Biden is sending in men with guns to beat down the striking workers or praising the bosses. Can you show me the statements where that happened? How is "the union must accept this deal because we demand it" not, in a very material sense, rewarding the bosses for running the trains down this far?
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Dec 1, 2022 13:56
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If the workers’ demands must be agreed to in order to avert catastrophe, it seems like the logical thing to do is agree to their demands.
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Dec 1, 2022 14:02
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I AM GRANDO posted:If the workers’ demands must be agreed to in order to avert catastrophe, it seems like the logical thing to do is agree to their demands. But if we give into their demands, they might make more demands! Those greedy railway workers, how dare they demand such largesse? Also it's vitally important that those railway workers continue working or else the entire economy explodes in two days, all the power plants shut down, and all the drinking water becomes undrinkable. It always, always, always blows my mind how politicians and experts can simultaneously publicly acknowledge that specific types of workers are so important and vital that the entire world revolves around them continuing to work but also somehow not believe that those positions deserve to be well compensated for that importance. We saw the same loving poo poo with "essential" workers during the pandemic.
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Dec 1, 2022 14:20
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Sodomy Hussein posted:A strike would crash the economy and according to my reading move us to a "every morning, grab your filth-caked pan and collect water at the bottom of the skull mountain"-style economy. This is not a nationalized system because [decades of poor decisions by those in power]. The economy fortune tellers said give money to the rich over and over and who were we to argue or examine results?
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Dec 1, 2022 14:23
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Well, to be clear the problem is not compensation, these workers are paid very well and are getting a pretty good bump in pay. The problem is poo poo working conditions that make these people go "I don't care if you pay good money, this life is hell".
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Dec 1, 2022 15:20
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Rigel posted:Well, to be clear the problem is not compensation, these workers are paid very well and are getting a pretty good bump in pay. The problem is poo poo working conditions that make these people go "I don't care if you pay good money, this life is hell". By "compensated well enough" I don't just mean monetarily, but also all the stuff that goes round it. "You will be compensated for your time" can mean being paid or being given time off as well as pay, that sort of thing.
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Dec 1, 2022 15:25
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They don't really have a problem with spending more money on paying workers more either directly or indirectly through benefits to some extent, but the ability to call in sick day-of, which is a basic thing everyone else takes for granted, threatens the fundamental business model for these rail companies. Their whole strategy depends on treating workers like they are the same as equipment and machines that are reliable and won't unexpectedly fail to show up to work, and changing that business model means giving up a LOT of profit. Well, too bad, their business model loving sucks. They need to hire a lot more people so that they can easily swap in another engineer or whatever when someone feels an alarming chest pain and wants to see a doctor. I found this article which pretty clearly lays everything out, tries to be somewhat fair to the management side's position, then basically ends by saying "yeah even if you see their side in the best possible light, they are still evil greedy bastards." If we aren't going to nationalise the railroads, then they are way overdue to have some new regulations imposed on them. https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2022/11/rail-strike-why-the-railroads-wont-give-in-on-paid-leave-psr-precision-scheduled-railroading.html
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Dec 1, 2022 15:45
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Mooseontheloose posted:I missed the part where Joe Biden is sending in men with guns to beat down the striking workers or praising the bosses. Can you show me the statements where that happened? If workers chose to strike anyway if they don’t get their sick leave, and did things like occupy rail yards and block trains from moving, what do you think will happen? It doesn’t matter if Biden isn’t the one giving the orders to some meathead, trigger happy cops, and focusing on him giving the order is just a rhetorical ploy. Cops wouldn’t even need orders to do it, they’d just do it because that’s who they are. Nucleic Acids fucked around with this message at 16:14 on Dec 1, 2022 |
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Dec 1, 2022 16:03
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Reading about PSR, I'm kinda surprised it's survived this long. Like, why haven't we had an unfortunate morning where 2 or 3 people got into car accidents at around the same time, a train didn't go out, and everyone noticed the billions of dollars lost
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Dec 1, 2022 16:12
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Nucleic Acids posted:If workers chose to strike anyway if they don’t get their sick leave, and did things like occupy rail yards and block trains from moving, what do you think will happen? It doesn’t matter if Biden isn’t the one giving the orders to some meathead, trigger happy cops, and focusing on him giving the order is just a rhetorical ploy. I read a couple articles while looking into the possibility of planned wildcat strikes basically saying that this is not likely going to happen in any large organized way. Some union members have told the press that there's not really any plans or anyone trying to organize large widespread wildcat strikes, and that many union members were even apathetic about voting in the first place, saying that congress was going to just force the deal that the union leaders agreed to anyway, so why bother. If there is any pushback from the workers after this, it will likely come in the form of resignations, career changes, and skilled tradesmen like electricians whose work isn't completely tied to just trains leaving the industry entirely. Rigel fucked around with this message at 16:20 on Dec 1, 2022 |
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Dec 1, 2022 16:17
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Nucleic Acids posted:If workers chose to strike anyway if they don’t get their sick leave, and did things like occupy rail yards and block trains from moving, what do you think will happen? It doesn’t matter if Biden isn’t the one giving the orders to some meathead, trigger happy cops, and focusing on him giving the order is just a rhetorical ploy. Have the workers threatened to do any of these things? They didn't happen in the last few national rail strikes, and I don't get the sense that the current unions are that much more militant now than they were last time.
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Dec 1, 2022 16:19
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Rigel posted:I read a couple articles while looking into the possibility of planned wildcat strikes basically saying that this is not likely going to happen in any large organized way. Some union members have told the press that there's not really any plans or anyone trying to organize large widespread wildcat strikes, and that many union members were even apathetic about voting in the first place, saying that congress was going to just force the deal that the union leaders agreed to anyway, so why bother. And those expectations are basically being met right in front of them.
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Dec 1, 2022 16:19
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Rigel posted:I read a couple articles while looking into the possibility of planned wildcat strikes basically saying that this is not likely going to happen in any large organized way. Some union members have told the press that there's not really any plans or anyone trying to organize large widespread wildcat strikes, and that many union members were even apathetic about voting in the first place, saying that congress was going to just force the deal that the union leaders agreed to anyway, so why bother. Nakedly pro-management interventions may have generated sufficient apathy, pessimism, and sadness to avoid a wildcat strike, but the industry will still continue to hemorrhage workers.
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Dec 1, 2022 16:22
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Nucleic Acids posted:If workers chose to strike anyway if they don’t get their sick leave, and did things like occupy rail yards and block trains from moving, what do you think will happen? I doubt they would need to do anything beyond withdrawing their labor to have a pronounced effect on basically everything. All of them staying home for 24-48 hours would be enough to get the point across.
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Dec 1, 2022 17:00
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cat botherer posted:Ladies and gentlemen, the Democats! You'd think that with union membership being so low the remaining ones would be super-left and radicalized as all hell. Nakedly pro-management interventions usually create the opposite.
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Dec 1, 2022 17:19
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DarkCrawler posted:You'd think that with union membership being so low the remaining ones would be super-left and radicalized as all hell. Nakedly pro-management interventions usually create the opposite. Culture is hard to overcome, and these jobs are often rural. I've anecdotally known a lot of poor people who use recently-legalized recreational drugs opposed by the GOP but are also still rabidly pro-Trump for either stupid or religious reasons.
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Dec 1, 2022 17:25
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From the way it's been reported railroad workers don't really seem to need to pickett or occupy worksites or anything because it doesn't seem like there's anyone who can actually scab to do their jobs. They can just not show up. So I don't think there's going to be a target for a hypothetical clash between mass demonstrations of workers and cops/troops. Would have to go house to house across vast distances to brutalize them I could see that happening to specific union leaders/agitators though
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Dec 1, 2022 17:35
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Oopsie! https://twitter.com/thevallejosun/status/1598349404972339206 Timeline: 1) awful unjustified police shooting happens, often resulting in a payout with everyone generally agreeing to not say very much about it other than what must be reluctantly disclosed. 2) state passes a law saying shooting investigations are public records and the media has a right to ask for them within a reasonable amount of time. 3) Media immediately asks for records from all the most controversial recent shootings. 4) City destroys records before they are allowed to do so. (this comes after point 2 and 3 above) 5) City informs the media that they made an innocent little boo-boo Rigel fucked around with this message at 17:41 on Dec 1, 2022 |
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Dec 1, 2022 17:38
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Rigel posted:Culture is hard to overcome, and these jobs are often rural. I've anecdotally known a lot of poor people who use recently-legalized recreational drugs opposed by the GOP but are also still rabidly pro-Trump for either stupid or religious reasons. I've read enough about early unions to know that racism was (surprise surprise) a huge part of it but you'd think those people would be mostly gone by the rabid verbal assaults on unions by the GOP.
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Dec 1, 2022 17:42
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DarkCrawler posted:I've read enough about early unions to know that racism was (surprise surprise) a huge part of it but you'd think those people would be mostly gone by the rabid verbal assaults on unions by the GOP.
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Dec 1, 2022 18:25
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Ghost Leviathan posted:The entire idea of giving into workers' demands and not sending in men with guns to beat them down while praising the bosses is entirely alien to the Dems. They genuinely don't understand the idea. Why is posting like this allowed in this thread?
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Dec 1, 2022 18:28
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Fart Amplifier posted:Why is posting like this allowed in this thread? Take it up with the mods if you are so cross at some hyperbole.
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Dec 1, 2022 18:34
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Fart Amplifier posted:Why is posting like this allowed in this thread? It’s common to speak here irreverently about political parties, eg Failed Imagineer posted:Glad to see the GOP are determined to keep loving that chicken right into 2024, it should be a hilarious couple of years where they clearly fail to accomplish anything while alienating anyone who isn't 4 layers deep-fried on QAnon fairytales
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Dec 1, 2022 18:36
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mawarannahr posted:It’s common to speak here irreverently about political parties, eg It's also a literal rule in this forum to post in good faith and assume good faith. There are probations for not assuming that posting has been made in good faith. There are constant derails over people talking about things like the Dems machinegunning protesters. Everyone talks past each other and posts things they apparently don't really mean. Nobody seems to know what anyone else is talking about half the time.
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Dec 1, 2022 19:07
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Fart Amplifier posted:It's also a literal rule in this forum to post in good faith and assume good faith. There are probations for not assuming that posting has been made in good faith. This happens here a lot but I'll be honest I have a lot of success asking those people clarifying questions and trying to drill down into what they're saying inside of the hyperbole. It's been a lot more productive and to me it's part of assuming good faith, humans say stupid and emotionally charged things in good faith because there is a core argument or point they're trying to make in good faith. Everyone on all sides does it. Like, as an example here's the way less hyperbolic version of that post that still runs really true: quote:The entire idea of giving into workers' demands and not forbidding workers from striking and bringing penalties against them if they do while praising the bosses is entirely alien to the Dems. They genuinely don't understand the idea. Gumball Gumption fucked around with this message at 19:23 on Dec 1, 2022 |
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Dec 1, 2022 19:17
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So Kanye west is currently doin an interview on Info Wars and he's boosting Hitler and being so openly antisemitic that Alex Jones is pushing back on it. https://twitter.com/oneunderscore__/status/1598367806348996608?s=46&t=coHgngWm7ouue0VeDa8m3Q
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Dec 1, 2022 19:22
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Fart Amplifier posted:Why is posting like this allowed in this thread? I've been busy the last few days and only 1 mod was around to monitor the forums. Generally, one instance of hyperbole or a reaction post is okay in this thread. There is a little bit of slack in this thread specifically. If someone is doing it multiple times and derailing, then report them. In this instance Ghost Leviathan's post wasn't really great, but he just did it once and didn't cause a derail. Please try to keep the thread from being a posting about posters circle. In other news, Jim Clyburn managed to hang on to a leadership role (albeit a demoted one), so there is actually one member of previous Democratic leadership sticking around. https://twitter.com/mkraju/status/1598328611332935683 The other top 3 leadership votes went as expected. Hakeem Jeffries is Minority Leader (#1), Katherine Clark is #2, and Pete Aguilar is #3. The vote for Hakeem Jeffries for Minority Leader was unanimous. https://twitter.com/AP/status/1598003927093477383
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Dec 1, 2022 19:27
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D.C. revealed a new transit plan that was developed by transit advocates. It makes buses that operate entirely within completely free for all riders and gives D.C. residents $100 per month to use on the metro and buses that leave the district. It will be the first major city in the U.S. that makes its bus service totally free for all riders. Unfortunately, there was also a zoning and building height restriction provision to allow more housing originally part of the walkable cities package and - as usual - resistance from local homeowners who were concerned about reducing black homeowner's wealth and increased traffic got it sidelined. https://twitter.com/mjs_DC/status/1598340471255957511
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Dec 1, 2022 19:45
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Jaxyon posted:So Kanye west is currently doin an interview on Info Wars and he's boosting Hitler and being so openly antisemitic that Alex Jones is pushing back on it. The House Judiciary GOP twitter finally took down this tweet 
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Dec 1, 2022 19:48
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:D.C. revealed a new transit plan that was developed by transit advocates. Richmond Virginia doesn't count as a major city I guess but we've had free fare for the past two years. To be honest the quality/reliability of service has gone way down in that time but I'd pin that on the continued shortage of drivers that's happening in every city.
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Dec 1, 2022 19:51
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Jaxyon posted:So Kanye west is currently doin an interview on Info Wars and he's boosting Hitler and being so openly antisemitic that Alex Jones is pushing back on it. The interview is completely wild. Kanye: I love Jews, but I also love Nazis. Jones: There is a Jewish cabal, but many Jews are not involved. I think most of them are great people. Kanye: No, it's a blood thing. They are all involved. Almost all of them. Kanye also keeps using Jews/Zionists/Pedophiles interchangeably. Alex Jones, of all people, is trying to explain that there are non-Jewish Zionists and non-Jewish pedophiles. Kanye: I love Jews, but I love them like an enemy. I admire what the Zionists have been able to accomplish, but the pedophiles are not doing good things and the Zionist faith is demanding the kids. It's kind of depressing that Kanye is sort of mainstreaming this and has some defenders, but I think it might actually be better if he just is allowed to give interviews unedited and for an unlimited time. Hopefully, he will have even fewer defenders afterwards. Edit: Alex Jones says that Kanye has a lot of good points, but that the one thing he doesn't get is that Kanye has too much admiration for Hitler and that he is scared by his "Hitler fetish."  Literal exact transcription of a quote from Kanye: "We have to stop dissing the Nazis all the time." Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 20:00 on Dec 1, 2022 |
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Dec 1, 2022 19:54
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:The interview is completely wild.
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Dec 1, 2022 20:00
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Youth Decay posted:I don't think there's any good in that tbh, his fans hang on every word he's saying and will just repeat it even further. We really don't need anti-semitism crowding the airwaves any more than it already is. Yeah, I was being a little facetious. But, Kanye had a surprising amount of defenders when he first dipped his toes into the "Jews control Hollywood and the culture" waters. I would hope that even a lot of people who defended him on that wouldn't defend him anymore once he is literally and openly praising Hitler.
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Dec 1, 2022 20:02
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Yeah, I was being a little facetious. But, Kanye had a surprising amount of defenders when he first dipped his toes into the "Jews control Hollywood and the culture" waters. We live in a world where people take umbrage at media saying Nazis are bad. He will still have his defenders.
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Dec 1, 2022 20:05
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Angry_Ed posted:We live in a world where people take umbrage at media saying Nazis are bad. He will still have his defenders. Yeah, but hopefully there are a lot fewer people willing to go to bat for "Hitler is actually great" than there are "Jews control Hollywood." Even Alex Jones is trying to get him to dial it back a little. https://twitter.com/Jamie_Weinstein/status/1598372086682161168 Kanye moved on from the Jews and is now back defending his comments from 5 or 6 years ago about "slavery being a choice" that black people made and arguing that Rosa Parks could have just gone and sat in the back of the bus and nothing bad would have happened to her.
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Dec 1, 2022 20:15
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going from "george bush doesn't care about black people" to blood libel This loving timeline
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Dec 1, 2022 20:15
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NYC Eric Adams is worried that people haven't been talking about what a weirdo he is for a few months and wants to just remind people. He's calling on New Yorkers to channel "good vibes" and "party vibes" to the city to help the crippled NYC tourism industry. He's also creating a new position in government called "The Office of New York City Rat Czar." quote:"There's nothing I hate more than rats,” Adams said in a statement. “Getting our city clean and ridding our streets of these filthy creatures are key to our recovery,” The actual unironic job requirements are: - A college degree - A "Swashbuckling attitude, crafty humor, and general aura of badassery” - A “virulent vehemence for vermin.” - NYC residency. - Proficiency in Microsoft Word, Excel and Powerpoint. https://twitter.com/NYCMayor/status/1598304533125693440 Unsurprisingly, Adams has a long history of being weird about rats - including showing off his own custom designed deadly rat traps when he was the Brooklyn borough president that also drowned the rats it caught. quote:As Brooklyn borough president, he proudly demonstrated a rat-drowning trap that drew cries of revulsion from the city’s hardened press corps. NYC is also now selling $48 T-Shirts to raise additional money for an "anti-rat squad" in the city. quote:the Sanitation Department recently unveiled a $48 T-shirt that reads a quote made famous by department Commissioner Jessica Tisch: “The rats don’t run this city. We do. NYC Sanitation.” Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 21:18 on Dec 1, 2022 |
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Dec 1, 2022 20:26
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