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Byzantine posted:Wait, 52 with 6 Republicans? You may notice that those two numbers do not sum up to the size of the senate. edit: which is to say that dems are hypocrites telling the commonfolk to vote while they don't even give enough of a poo poo to do it themselves
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Dec 1, 2022 22:51
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Verus posted:You may notice that those two numbers do not sum up to the size of the senate.
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Dec 1, 2022 22:54
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I'll give Warnock a pass since he's busy and probably knew his vote wasn't going to matter.
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Dec 1, 2022 22:54
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https://clerk.house.gov/Votes/2022490 Here's the yea/nay/not voting list for the house, it looks like the senate one may not be out yet, and all the articles I saw just give totals without full pastable lists of yeas and nays and n/as
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Dec 1, 2022 22:57
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Byzantine posted:Wait, 52 with 6 Republicans? Warnock and Murphy were both out. On the Republican side, both NC Senators and one of the MS Senators were both out. Warnock is in Georgia. Not sure about what the other 4 were doing.
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Dec 1, 2022 22:58
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Warnock and Murphy were both out. On the Republican side, both NC Senators and one of the MS Senators were both out. Senate rules still not allowing for democracy tele-medicine? Feels like this was worth hopping on a plane.
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Dec 1, 2022 23:35
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I genuinely don't know what would prove that the Dems are an irretrievably right wing party if not this The usual suspects in the center-left media world are just going to keep on keeping on like nothing happened?
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Dec 1, 2022 23:55
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icantfindaname posted:I genuinely don't know what would prove that the Dems are an irretrievably right wing party if not this What choice do they have? The US has two right wing parties, one waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay right to the point of fascism, one that has some people left of center but motly right of center on a global scale. It's an obvious choice.
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Dec 1, 2022 23:59
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-Blackadder- posted:Senate rules still not allowing for democracy tele-medicine? It wasn't, because it wasn't going to pass. If any absent Dems were going to be the critical vote, they would have been called in. This has been enumerate upthread, but bears repeating. This was decided when it was split into 2 votes - they had enough for the first part, but not enough for the sick days. 60 votes is a threshold that just wasn't gonna be reached for this in our present circumstances. Now, ideally, the rail workers strike.
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Dec 2, 2022 00:01
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can the railway workers just shove this bill up their asses and strike anyway
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Dec 2, 2022 00:02
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projecthalaxy posted:https://clerk.house.gov/Votes/2022490 AOC and Ilhan Omar voted to break the strike. They didn't even need to, it would have passed without them. Extremely disappointing.
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Dec 2, 2022 00:04
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The appeals court has halted the special master review of the Mar A Lago documents https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/01/politics/mar-a-lago-special-master/index.html I guess Trump pretty much got what he wanted out of it though which was just a delay.
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Dec 2, 2022 00:05
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DEEP STATE PLOT posted:can the railway workers just shove this bill up their asses and strike anyway They can, but railway workers, certain airline workers, and government workers are covered under The Railway Labor Act and other rules that normal union workers aren't. If they strike, then they can fired with no penalty, they can lose some of their benefits from collective bargaining (like vesting in their pension), and if the union as a whole organizes it, then they can decertify the union.
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Dec 2, 2022 00:06
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DEEP STATE PLOT posted:can the railway workers just shove this bill up their asses and strike anyway yes, and remedies that aren't the rail companies caving seem quite short on the ground, because the expertise does not exist to deploy scabs I'm disappointed the bad version of the bill passed so resoundingly
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Dec 2, 2022 00:06
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DEEP STATE PLOT posted:can the railway workers just shove this bill up their asses and strike anyway The union will be legally dissolved, the officers arrested and all strikers blacklisted from the industry and maybe arrested too On the other hand, it sounds like the rail system is in such bad shape it may only take a very small number of strikers to cause its collapse
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Dec 2, 2022 00:08
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icantfindaname posted:The union will be legally dissolved, the officers arrested and all strikers blacklisted from the industry and maybe arrested too I must admit in a similar position I'd hope that I'd strike anyway. Or just quit. The management will not change their intentions and will not hire new people, and then the infrastructure will collapse like a damp cake. I hope this can kicking ends with a better system of governance.
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Dec 2, 2022 00:11
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:They can, but railway workers, certain airline workers, and government workers are covered under The Railway Labor Act and other rules that normal union workers aren't. gotta say, that railway labor act sure sounds like fuckin dogshit if it gives the railways and/or government the right to do all those things if i were a railway worker i'd organize a mass strike with or without union involvement at this stage. bring the country to its knees, gently caress it, good luck training a ton of new employees if you fire all of us.
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Dec 2, 2022 00:13
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I'm doubtful the unions will organize or support a wide scale wildcat strike. On the other hand, the labour situation seems precarious enough that even a small portion of the pissed off workers striking could destabilize everything. If nothing else, workers will continue to exit the industry or retire until something changes. This contract expires in 2024, it's been in negotiation since 2019. So negotiations will start back up relatively soon.
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Dec 2, 2022 00:15
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Yeah this is a perfect situation for a wildcat, but risking your job is always a tough sell. And 100% the rail fuckers are going to fire a bunch of people and then blame the workers for whatever happens. Zeron posted:I'm doubtful the unions will organize or support a wide scale wildcat strike. On the other hand, the labour situation seems precarious enough that even a small portion of the pissed off workers striking could destabilize everything. If nothing else, workers will continue to exit the industry or retire until something changes. This contract expires in 2024, it's been in negotiation since 2019. So negotiations will start back up relatively soon. And the rail companies will be negotiating from a position of strength, since they just very clearly flexed on the unions.
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Dec 2, 2022 00:17
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Zeron posted:I'm doubtful the unions will organize or support a wide scale wildcat strike. On the other hand, the labour situation seems precarious enough that even a small portion of the pissed off workers striking could destabilize everything. If nothing else, workers will continue to exit the industry or retire until something changes. This contract expires in 2024, it's been in negotiation since 2019. So negotiations will start back up relatively soon. i think if the vote had been 80 to 20 strike, we would probably a bunch of wildcat strikes, but it wasnt. it was like 60 40 to take the deal and parts of the 40 were divided. if they still go through with it, i dont blame them.
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Dec 2, 2022 00:17
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Josef bugman posted:I must admit in a similar position I'd hope that I'd strike anyway. Or just quit. The management will not change their intentions and will not hire new people, and then the infrastructure will collapse like a damp cake. I'm with you on this. I wish they would just strike anyway. I WANT the economy to implode over this. I want people (including me) to feel hardships. I want them to know this was literally over giving people sick days. I'm tired of people being called essential workers and being treated like robots.
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Dec 2, 2022 00:21
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DEEP STATE PLOT posted:gotta say, that railway labor act sure sounds like fuckin dogshit if it gives the railways and/or government the right to do all those things The underlying pitch - and bear in mind that this was in an era where without the railway labor act all those things just get done to workers anyway - is that there needs to be a solution to an actual negotiation impasse, lest it collapse the national economy. Where I part ways from the Biden administration this week is apparently that I don't think this is an unbreakable or unreasonable impasse. The rail companies are capable of reorienting their business around the day of requirement, and INCREDIBLY capable of reorienting around the Bernie compromise (seven fays, which remains a pittance, but longer lead time). After handling their involvement in the rest of the negotiation Pretty Well, the admin at best jumped the gun. so, I defer to the unions on all the things in general and strike decisions in particular; I've also heard Biden might be able to unilaterally change executive policy on federal contractors (read: railroads) but that's secondhand and i ain't no fancy train wizard
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Dec 2, 2022 00:28
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Charliegrs posted:I'm with you on this. I wish they would just strike anyway. I WANT the economy to implode over this. I want people (including me) to feel hardships. I want them to know this was literally over giving people sick days. I'm tired of people being called essential workers and being treated like robots. The economy exploding and people suffering over the holidays because union members who made over six figures before getting a 24% raise wanting more sick days is not going to create the result you want. The opposite, most likely!
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Dec 2, 2022 00:29
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Acebuckeye13 posted:The economy exploding and people suffering over the holidays because union members who made over six figures before getting a 24% raise wanting more sick days is not going to create the result you want. The opposite, most likely! More sick days? The current amount is zero. I'm not sure the final amount forced through but it was either 0 or 1. The 24% raise is because this contract has been in negotiations since 2019 and lasts through 2024. That's about 4.8% per year, not even above inflation. The pay was never the dispute, the issue was incredibly unethical leave policies that fired workers if they took a single unplanned day off because they got the flu. The railway owners profit margins have absolutely exploded in this timeframe, giving into every single union request would impact profits minimally and make the entire industry safer and more secure. The profits they saw came about by cutting 30% of workers to reorganize the entire industry to run on the thinnest margins which has caused disruption to every industry that relies on them and killed workers outright. In conclusion, gently caress off. Edit: Dapper_Swindler posted:i think if the vote had been 80 to 20 strike, we would probably a bunch of wildcat strikes, but it wasnt. it was like 60 40 to take the deal and parts of the 40 were divided. if they still go through with it, i dont blame them. No. The 4 unions that voted no comprised the majority of the workers. So 60-40 yes is just wrong. The unions that conditionally voted for it absolutely did not have 100% yes votes either. The true margin is probably closer to 60 or 70% against. Zeron fucked around with this message at 00:39 on Dec 2, 2022 |
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Dec 2, 2022 00:34
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DEEP STATE PLOT posted:gotta say, that railway labor act sure sounds like fuckin dogshit if it gives the railways and/or government the right to do all those things
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Dec 2, 2022 00:35
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Acebuckeye13 posted:The economy exploding and people suffering over the holidays because union members who made over six figures before getting a 24% raise wanting more sick days is not going to create the result you want. The opposite, most likely! Yeah, gently caress those workers for trying to take sick days without penalty. They should be happy with the big fat goose egg (0) they currently have. Nothing bad could happen from forcing overworked and sick workers to operate massive machines. Surely this will reverse the years and years of attrition the RR has been experiencing because of their own failed policies and greed. I saw a tiktok a couple of months ago from a worker who stated that if the government pushed a bad deal on them, they probably wouldn't do a wildcat strike, but they will lose more workers. A lot of the workers now have been employed for a long time now and could very well retire if they want. theCalamity fucked around with this message at 00:38 on Dec 2, 2022 |
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Dec 2, 2022 00:36
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Charliegrs posted:I'm with you on this. I wish they would just strike anyway. I WANT the economy to implode over this. I want people (including me) to feel hardships. I want them to know this was literally over giving people sick days. I'm tired of people being called essential workers and being treated like robots. I’m confused, why do you wish that a strike would happen? Especially since those who are already suffering will be hit the hardest? Wouldn’t the best outcome, by far, be for the railroad companies to cave in and give the workers everything they wanted without a strike occurring? This is an honest question
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Dec 2, 2022 00:41
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:The interview is completely wild. I disagree. It will not be better if there's more Nazi propaganda on the airwaves.
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Dec 2, 2022 00:45
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Kalit posted:I’m confused, why do you wish that a strike would happen? Especially since those who are already suffering will be hit the hardest? I think the implication is a strike is the next best thing if they don't get what they want, because the government is currently in the process of saying "you will not get what you want"?
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Dec 2, 2022 00:48
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Kalit posted:I’m confused, why do you wish that a strike would happen? Especially since those who are already suffering will be hit the hardest? I'm confused, what possible pressure exists that can be exerted on the railroad companies to make them cave on this issue? I don't feel like I've seen a single alternative to striking now that the 7 days of sick leave has been killed.
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Dec 2, 2022 00:49
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Kalit posted:I’m confused, why do you wish that a strike would happen? Especially since those who are already suffering will be hit the hardest? Yes, that is the ideal outcome. Unfortunately that outcome has been completely taken off the table thanks to Biden and the Democratic controlled Congress.
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Dec 2, 2022 00:54
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Oxyclean posted:I think the implication is a strike is the next best thing if they don't get what they want, because the government is currently in the process of saying "you will not get what you want"? I didn’t read it that way, but that would make some sense Mischievous Mink posted:I'm confused, what possible pressure exists that can be exerted on the railroad companies to make them cave on this issue? I don't feel like I've seen a single alternative to striking now that the 7 days of sick leave has been killed. If we’re going based on how likely an outcome is to occur, a major wildcat strike occurring is as likely as the railroad owners deciding it’s not worth the headache and switching back to their old sick leave policies.
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Dec 2, 2022 00:55
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The only reason I've gotten any interest to want the strike to happen is to officially transition us out of the Reagan era of "the government can just turn off a union and make everything safe for neoliberalism" by making it severely obvious they hosed up when they attempted to end a strike through force at the government level and the end result was catastrophic Which would make a bunch of other unions and industries realize the entire nation just lost a lot of the will to gently caress up as bad anytime soon, so their position just got a lot better and they could just say "yeah try it again we double dare you" Or because it might steer us towards nationalizing rail because it's obviously necessary, thus pulling a reverse thatcher But we have no guarantee this would go right in either of those ways, it could just gently caress poo poo up
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Dec 2, 2022 00:56
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Mischievous Mink posted:I'm confused, what possible pressure exists that can be exerted on the railroad companies to make them cave on this issue? I don't feel like I've seen a single alternative to striking now that the 7 days of sick leave has been killed. Pressure Biden to reverse Obama's executive order that exempts the rail roads from the federal contractor rule requiring 7 days paid sick leave?
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Dec 2, 2022 00:58
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Kalit posted:I’m confused, why do you wish that a strike would happen? Especially since those who are already suffering will be hit the hardest?
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Dec 2, 2022 00:58
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Kalit posted:I’m confused, why do you wish that a strike would happen? Especially since those who are already suffering will be hit the hardest? I'm sure the OP and everybody else agrees that would be better. Don't imagine we need a poll. Barring that, I hope they strike. I've been loving the show Andor, Luthen has a quote something like "they've been choking us so slowly for so long we don't realize we can't breath." For large amounts of people to accept change, to demand change, things have to get uncomfortable.
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Dec 2, 2022 00:59
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Kalit posted:I’m confused, why do you wish that a strike would happen? Especially since those who are already suffering will be hit the hardest? The best way for the RR to cave in is to strike. Outside of going through Congress, which has obviously just failed, the strike is their only recourse. Or they just accept the deal and keep working without sick days. Realistically, workers are going to quit or get fired because they have to call in sick because they've been afflicted by the current plague or some other emergency happened. And if they don't call in, well now you have a sick person managing a heavy machine that is pulling 3200 tons of freight.
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Dec 2, 2022 01:00
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One reason I'm hoping they wildcat strike is because the gov't stepping in and forcing the (unaccepted) agreement sets a terrible precedent the next time the workers get fed up and strike. Now the rail bosses know they can just toss crumbs at the workers and wait it out until the government steps in and forces them to accept the lovely contract. And I say this knowing full well that I, as a consumer, will be impacted by any disruption of the railways and their deliveries, or lack thereof.
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Dec 2, 2022 01:01
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if the RR execs are too evil to add a SCK leave accrual plan to their dumbass HR system (probably Oracle lol) they at least should be forced to increase the VAC/PTO plans and also make it easier for their employees to use the loving things (which based on articles is the main reason the emps wanted a SCK plan that they could use for those "last minute sick" occasions since it was taking weeks/months to get a VAC/PTO day approved.) Also whatever "points" attendance system the RR's are using needs to be immediately binned.
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Dec 2, 2022 01:03
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Charlz Guybon posted:Pressure Biden to reverse Obama's executive order that exempts the rail roads from the federal contractor rule requiring 7 days paid sick leave? Oh that would make a fantastic move actually. I mean it doesn't seem like Biden is interested in doing it, but if he did that would be pretty unarguably a lot more support than the workers are seeing now.
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Dec 2, 2022 01:11
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