STARFIELD: I didnt buy a Bethesda game to not have any bugs

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > STARFIELD: I didnt buy a Bethesda game to not have any bugs

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Theotus: Nov 8, 2014

Let me rag doll people like Mass Effect.

# ? Dec 2, 2022 02:44

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# ? Jun 3, 2024 18:09

TheDiceMustRoll: Jul 23, 2018

Orcs and Ostriches posted:

Some people froth at the mouth at the mention of Todd Howard.

I think it's common enough that players don't necessarily like the direction he's taken some of the later games, but it's mostly just memeing.

I mean,

There are criticisms to make about Bethesda's weird-rear end worldbuilding, right? Raiders in Fallout 1 and 2 were named factions and in Fallout 3 they were just generic bandits who killed poo poo. The BGS worldbuilding is less about having it all work super well but having it be a fun experience for the players, and that player-first focus is smart. They listen to feedback extremely well, since Starfield is ditching voiced protagonist - and forced ties like the baby. I think a lot of the hate, however, comes from the fact that many of these games are old as hell(sigh) and people tend to re-evaluate. No Bethesda game is actually good after a few hundred hours (very few rpgs outside of roguelikes are, and I can't think of a single RPG where the annoyances with the system don't start to mount up after 40).

dr_rat posted:

Yeah I think there are some people who a massive fans of Bethesda early stuff, who may really not like him, and think fallout 76 and everything surrounding that might have of gained him quite a few more people who legit don't like the guy. More widely though it does just seem to be mostly just light heatedly making a bit fun with little actually ill will.

Personally not the biggest fan of the direction he seems to of lead Bethesda games, but seems pretty obvious he does care about games a lot, and also knows what makes a successful one (not including a few mistakes like Redguard and 76).

I find it very interesting he's so player-focused. It's like the worldbuilding doesn't matter at all to him, but he has weird eccentricities about it anyway. Which is why I compare him to Miyamoto forcing narrative poo poo out of Nintendo games, while also having a literal established canon that must be followed.

orcane posted:

Besides NMA types hating everyone and everything that "ruined" Fallout since 3, I think the main big thing that triggered people to poo poo on Todd was Fallout 76.

There are 700 word essays on 4chan howling with anger because they didn't program a train into Fallout 3 but just used a naked guy and gave him a subway train for a head, even though they never give an answer why this would ever matter aside from "it's lazy".

Orcs and Ostriches posted:

Some teams have reported some pretty bad crunch conditions. And there were accusations about the Doom team not paying their musician but still using his work.

Would have to dig for some details but they don't look clean across the board.

The main BGS studio has really low crunch, but I did have some conversations with the people in there and it's a tough job, for sure. High expectations.

Even people who don't seem to like Todd generally describe him as a nice person and good boss, so I generally think he's probably a decent guy to work for. Bethesda the Publisher is another story. They really are the worst and most hateful and cynical publisher in existence, or were, I dunno, but seeing them talk in 2021 about how a bunch of games were "flops" that "underperformed" and all of them made their budget back multiple times over for vast profits is just insane to me. DOOM ETERNAL had made half a billion dollars in profits and the suits were crying and seething that it was "underwhelming", which gives me the impression that the old board that ran Zenimax were part of the "if the game doesn't make a trillion, we wasted our time." cult that every executive in the industry seems to be a part of.

# ? Dec 2, 2022 02:44

The Titanic: Sep 15, 2016; Unsinkable

Stealth archer was also the only one where it felt like you could play the game. The sword person you'd just run in and click click click and sometimes do a health potion or magic heal but you didn't care about the level or anything else. Just if you'd beat the guy.

Stealth archer made the level feel more relevant. Though only in a corny way. I'd shoot an arrow then wait for the eyeball to disappear again. You could ever shoot two arrows in a row no matter how far away you are because that second arrow always told them exactly where you were. You could only shoot two if the first missed.

# ? Dec 2, 2022 02:46

Orcs and Ostriches: Aug 26, 2010; The Great Twist

TheDiceMustRoll posted:

Even people who don't seem to like Todd generally describe him as a nice person and good boss, so I generally think he's probably a decent guy to work for.

Honesty, regardless of what anyone thinks of Todd's game design, everything I hear about him sounds like he's great to work for, and puts his teams first. Hearing what they went through with Morrowind and what he's done so they don't have to deal with that again sounds really good.

# ? Dec 2, 2022 03:09

The Titanic: Sep 15, 2016; Unsinkable

Some day Todd will do a great Kickstarter. And we can complete the circle of life.

# ? Dec 2, 2022 03:36

orcane: Jun 13, 2012; Fun Shoe

Todd Howard's Universal Citizen, pledge now.

# ? Dec 2, 2022 07:37

John F Bennett: Jan 30, 2013; I always wear my wedding ring. It's my trademark.

The Titanic posted:

I liked Starflight bunches.

I would be happy with something like that, even if you could just explore and mine and find cool stuff in a buggy and had some sort of neat storyline to follow and different aliens to work with.

I also like not understand what they say too and figuring it all out. It could be neat for first encounter type stuff. Not sure how far into that they'll go, or if every alien just can magically know English (or whatever language you selected), and like every so many words they have a weird letter thrown in there because they are aliens.

I'm pretty sure there won't be any aliens outside of local fauna. Likely there will be stuff like alien artifacts, but no aliens like in Mass Effect. Todd has said it will be a very grounded type of sci-fi. So probably also no space magic, biotics or whatever you want to call it.

Suits me fine, because I'm a bit tired of all of these fantasy tropes.

But I hope there will be lots of space drugs with cool effects instead.

Sylphosaurus posted:

I�m just happy to have a sci-fi themed RPG for once since I�m so drat tired of ye olde medevial style of RPG.

Hell yeah, the gaming world is obsessed with medieval fantasy RPG's.

# ? Dec 2, 2022 10:26

The_White_Crane: May 10, 2008

I am excited for Starfield, but not expecting miracles.
It's a Bethesda Game. It's going to be effectively the same game as Skyrim or Fallout 4 but with some new features and prettier graphics. And that's fine! I like Bethesda games!
No-one else is really making anything quite the same, and I'm perfectly happy to sink 30-odd hours into whatever they make, then get burned out and come back a year later once the modders have fixed some of their worst design choices and give it another 30 hours.

# ? Dec 2, 2022 10:55

BigglesSWE: Dec 2, 2014; How 'bout them hawks news huh!

I just had a strong urge to play Starfield and I�m annoyed I can�t.

# ? Dec 2, 2022 11:49

Jack B Nimble: Dec 25, 2007; Soiled Meat

I'd say Alien is fairly grounded except for the titular alien, so stuff like that could still happen.

# ? Dec 2, 2022 14:27

The Titanic: Sep 15, 2016; Unsinkable

John F Bennett posted:

I'm pretty sure there won't be any aliens outside of local fauna. Likely there will be stuff like alien artifacts, but no aliens like in Mass Effect. Todd has said it will be a very grounded type of sci-fi. So probably also no space magic, biotics or whatever you want to call it.

Suits me fine, because I'm a bit tired of all of these fantasy tropes.

But I hope there will be lots of space drugs with cool effects instead.

Hell yeah, the gaming world is obsessed with medieval fantasy RPG's.

Yeah... but I'm still believing that bethesda can't help themselves from showing some kind of alien.

But they can always do the tried and true "ancient Dwemer" path too. It's just one they've kind of done before.

I'd be neat if it was like mass effect and you could pick your alien race you want to play as. I always enjoyed elder scrolls for exactly that functionality where you could be stuff other than a generic human and it was overall pretty cool.

Regardless of the final product I'm sure I will still enjoy it greatly and play it. :3:

# ? Dec 2, 2022 15:09

Trillhouse: Dec 31, 2000

remember the Aldmer? they're back, in science-fiction form!

it would be neat if Starfield and Elder Scrolls are in the same universe.

# ? Dec 2, 2022 15:23

dr_rat: Jun 4, 2001

Yeah, a lot of the stuff like the huge amount of worlds, and ship building/camp building not really into, but that they got the person who was the lead designer for far harbor as the lead quest designer on Starfield, got me sort optimistic that there might actually going to be some well thought out main quest stuff happening. And what we've seen from the character selection screen seems pretty interesting as well.

Not expecting the greatest game ever, but if I can enjoyably play it for 30hrs, then I'm more than happy.

# ? Dec 2, 2022 15:28

TheDiceMustRoll: Jul 23, 2018

Orcs and Ostriches posted:

Honesty, regardless of what anyone thinks of Todd's game design, everything I hear about him sounds like he's great to work for, and puts his teams first. Hearing what they went through with Morrowind and what he's done so they don't have to deal with that again sounds really good.

The fact that a pretty significant chunk of the Morrowind team is around in some form or fashion because its a good place to work is a good thing to hear. Basically every other RPG studio its like a 90% staff replacement each game.

dr_rat posted:

Yeah, a lot of the stuff like the huge amount of worlds, and ship building/camp building not really into, but that they got the person who was the lead designer for far harbor as the lead quest designer on Starfield, got me sort optimistic that there might actually going to be some well thought out main quest stuff happening. And what we've seen from the character selection screen seems pretty interesting as well.

Not expecting the greatest game ever, but if I can enjoyably play it for 30hrs, then I'm more than happy.

I think they've been very muted in their promises too, which helps. Yeah 1000 planets, but do you remember when Cyberpunk was running around being like "EVERY SINGLE QUEST IN THE GAME WILL HAVE MASSIVE DECISION TREES" and it was literally like, maybe three and only the one quest that had more than two? There was a point where Cyberpunk developers were claiming that you could literally go into thousands of apartments in the game, good god

# ? Dec 2, 2022 16:06

The Titanic: Sep 15, 2016; Unsinkable

TheDiceMustRoll posted:

The fact that a pretty significant chunk of the Morrowind team is around in some form or fashion because its a good place to work is a good thing to hear. Basically every other RPG studio its like a 90% staff replacement each game.

I think they've been very muted in their promises too, which helps. Yeah 1000 planets, but do you remember when Cyberpunk was running around being like "EVERY SINGLE QUEST IN THE GAME WILL HAVE MASSIVE DECISION TREES" and it was literally like, maybe three and only the one quest that had more than two? There was a point where Cyberpunk developers were claiming that you could literally go into thousands of apartments in the game, good god

If they went the route of procedural generation, after like 3 planets that aren't quest planets you'll probably see the algorithm running under the hood and the other 997 planets will be less exciting to explore or even bother visiting.

What I'm hoping though is that the planets themselves can have custom stuff put on top of them, and you'll have modders building stuff on different planets. Like fallout 4 planet, Skyrim planet, the weird planet of rubber sex toys and giant dildo trees, etc.

I love a good bethesda game, but it's the modding community that makes those games actually be fun to come back to 5 or so years later to see all the new crazy stuff you can do.

# ? Dec 2, 2022 19:13

TheDiceMustRoll: Jul 23, 2018

The Titanic posted:

If they went the route of procedural generation, after like 3 planets that aren't quest planets you'll probably see the algorithm running under the hood and the other 997 planets will be less exciting to explore or even bother visiting.

What I'm hoping though is that the planets themselves can have custom stuff put on top of them, and you'll have modders building stuff on different planets. Like fallout 4 planet, Skyrim planet, the weird planet of rubber sex toys and giant dildo trees, etc.

I love a good bethesda game, but it's the modding community that makes those games actually be fun to come back to 5 or so years later to see all the new crazy stuff you can do.

honestly i hope they went the star control route where there are completely nonsense planets like "the diamond planet"

# ? Dec 2, 2022 19:20

chaosapiant: Oct 10, 2012; White Line Fever

Has it been said whether the 1000 planets thing is a hard limit, or can more be added by modders later?

# ? Dec 2, 2022 19:35

Lordshmee: Nov 23, 2007; I hate you, Milkman Dan

Todd specifically said 1000 wasn�t an engine limitation but that past that number wtf are they going to put on them? A good question and one I�m glad they aren�t trying to answer.

I wish Bethesda hadn�t shut down their forums. One thing I�d really like to post at them is to beg that they allow us to re-bind all controls. I mean I want to be able to use any key for any function. They hard-coded a bunch of stuff in Fallout 4 which was the reason I stopped playing it right away. I�m an old man and very persnickety about my control scheme and if you force me into WASD I just nope out and it makes me very sad.

# ? Dec 2, 2022 22:49

The Titanic: Sep 15, 2016; Unsinkable

Lordshmee posted:

Todd specifically said 1000 wasn�t an engine limitation but that past that number wtf are they going to put on them? A good question and one I�m glad they aren�t trying to answer.

I wish Bethesda hadn�t shut down their forums. One thing I�d really like to post at them is to beg that they allow us to re-bind all controls. I mean I want to be able to use any key for any function. They hard-coded a bunch of stuff in Fallout 4 which was the reason I stopped playing it right away. I�m an old man and very persnickety about my control scheme and if you force me into WASD I just nope out and it makes me very sad.

You get some randomly generated quest to find/kill random enemies. You randomly pick one of the 1000 planets, randomly pick coordinates, and maybe you even have some cookie cutter pieces of a structure that can be glued together like a Subnautica base, then you plop it down at that coordinates after checking to make sure you didn't already spawn another random base on that planet/coordinate vicinity.

I'd say the concept is fine, but it's like any random quests and loot and I have many fond memory of opening chests for my 6 gold, 1 lettuce, and some random piece of villager clothing. The formulae can get worn out after a lil while.

# ? Dec 2, 2022 22:58

chaosapiant: Oct 10, 2012; White Line Fever

Lordshmee posted:

Todd specifically said 1000 wasn�t an engine limitation but that past that number wtf are they going to put on them? A good question and one I�m glad they aren�t trying to answer.

I wish Bethesda hadn�t shut down their forums. One thing I�d really like to post at them is to beg that they allow us to re-bind all controls. I mean I want to be able to use any key for any function. They hard-coded a bunch of stuff in Fallout 4 which was the reason I stopped playing it right away. I�m an old man and very persnickety about my control scheme and if you force me into WASD I just nope out and it makes me very sad.

I�m sure this is not something you haven�t already considered, but Bethesda games work great with a controller. I always have a wireless Xbox controller for my PC.

# ? Dec 2, 2022 23:02

CatHorse: Jan 5, 2008

TheDiceMustRoll posted:

, but do you remember when Cyberpunk was running around being like "EVERY SINGLE QUEST IN THE GAME WILL HAVE MASSIVE DECISION TREES" and it was literally like, maybe three and only the one quest that had more than two? There was a point where Cyberpunk developers were claiming that you could literally go into thousands of apartments in the game, good god

Do you have links with them saying that?

# ? Dec 2, 2022 23:08

AlternateAccount: Apr 25, 2005; FYGM

You finally land on a desolate planet. Nothing to see from horizon to horizon. Surely the signal came from somewhere near here? What could it have been? You take a moment to collect yourself, deciding on a course of action when you hear a voice from behind you.

ANOTHER SETTLEMENT NEEDS YOUR HELP

# ? Dec 3, 2022 01:11

Noob Saibot: Jan 29, 2020; by Fluffdaddy

Some of the poo poo devs overpromise sounds hellish anyway

# ? Dec 3, 2022 01:22

Bad Purchase: Jun 17, 2019

chaosapiant posted:

I�m sure this is not something you haven�t already considered, but Bethesda games work great with a controller. I always have a wireless Xbox controller for my PC.

do not, under any circumstances, play a first person game with a controller

unless it's splatoon, that one gets a pass because of the motion controls are pretty good actually

# ? Dec 3, 2022 05:43

chaosapiant: Oct 10, 2012; White Line Fever

Bad Purchase posted:

do not, under any circumstances, play a first person game with a controller

unless it's splatoon, that one gets a pass because of the motion controls are pretty good actually

I play first person games all the time with a controller. It�s fine. Especially in a Bethesda game where superb accuracy, timing and speed don�t matter. It�s also much more comfy to lean back in my office chair.

# ? Dec 3, 2022 07:20

Space Jam: Jul 22, 2008

Bad Purchase posted:

do not, under any circumstances, play a first person game with a controller

i�ve been playing first person games with a controller for 24 years now and never had a single problem. what are you talking about?

# ? Dec 3, 2022 07:54

Bad Purchase: Jun 17, 2019

i'm talking about keyboard and mouse

# ? Dec 3, 2022 08:08

John F Bennett: Jan 30, 2013; I always wear my wedding ring. It's my trademark.

Bad Purchase posted:

i'm talking about keyboard and mouse

Controllers are perfectly fine for first person games. I played all Bethesda games starting from Morrowind with a controller.

I'm actually better with a controller than mouse and keyboard. I can't stand gaming on kbm, it ruins my immersion and makes me feel like I'm at work.

Sitting hunched over at a PC is not my idea of a good time and promotes bad posture.

# ? Dec 3, 2022 09:31

CommissarMega: Nov 18, 2008; THUNDERDOME LOSER

Has anything been said about weapon customization/crafting? Not gonna lie, I liked Fo4's weapon and crafting system because of brokebrains, I guess :shobon:

# ? Dec 3, 2022 09:47

7c Nickel: Apr 27, 2008

CommissarMega posted:

Has anything been said about weapon customization/crafting? Not gonna lie, I liked Fo4's weapon and crafting system because of brokebrains, I guess

Just a sentence or two.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmb2FJGvnAw&t=574s

Looks to be about the same, only you "research" additional parts.

# ? Dec 3, 2022 15:05

7c Nickel: Apr 27, 2008

Looking at the FOOD AND DRINK section of the Research Lab, I'm excited to recreate this Awkward Zombie comic, only as the intended gameplay experience.

# ? Dec 3, 2022 15:28

Orcs and Ostriches: Aug 26, 2010; The Great Twist

CommissarMega posted:

Has anything been said about weapon customization/crafting? Not gonna lie, I liked Fo4's weapon and crafting system because of brokebrains, I guess

You liked it because it was actually a pretty cool system.

# ? Dec 3, 2022 17:57

Epi Lepi: Oct 29, 2009; You can hear the voice
Telling you to Love
It's the voice of MK Ultra
And you're doing what it wants

Bad Purchase posted:

do not, under any circumstances, play a first person game with a controller

unless it's splatoon, that one gets a pass because of the motion controls are pretty good actually

Can�t believe people are still saying this in TYoOL 2022.

# ? Dec 3, 2022 19:21

1glitch0: Sep 4, 2018; I DON'T GIVE A CRAP WHAT SHE BELIEVES THE HARRY POTTER BOOKS CHANGED MY LIFE #HUFFLEPUFF

Epi Lepi posted:

Can�t believe people are still saying this in TYoOL 2022.

I only play games on my PC and only type things up on my console.

# ? Dec 3, 2022 20:55

Bad Purchase: Jun 17, 2019

Epi Lepi posted:

Can�t believe people are still saying this in TYoOL 2022.

why? aiming and camera controls still suck on controllers compared to a mouse in 2022. other than some games using gyro/motion control, there hasn't been much improvement over the years. it still feels pretty much how it did going all the way back to halo. it's playable, but there's a reason PC and console players are separated in competitive FPS games, and nobody who plays PC first person games competitively uses a gamepad over mouse and keyboard. it's just not as good.

wanna sit on your couch and game because your brain associates a keyboard and mouse with work? fine, i get that. but to me it's a noticeably worse experience for anything first person. up to you how much you care i guess, and it's not like starfield is a competitive shooter, but i still prefer the better controls even if it means sitting at a desk.

e: also, i guess i just kinda assume most people are gonna prefer playing the PC version of bethesda games if possible (and thus have the keyboard/mouse option) because of a wider availability of mods, not to mention fan patches for all the bugs bethesda is too lazy to fix. in the console version you're locked into their official store, and if it's anything like skyrim the in-game mod store interface and experience is horrific compared to nexus and a 3rd party mod manager. maybe starfield will do a better job with mods through the in game system though, who knows.

Bad Purchase fucked around with this message at 22:44 on Dec 3, 2022

# ? Dec 3, 2022 22:34

DaysBefore: Jan 24, 2019

controllers ftw

# ? Dec 3, 2022 22:39

John F Bennett: Jan 30, 2013; I always wear my wedding ring. It's my trademark.

Even Mint Blitz uses a controller for Halo.

# ? Dec 3, 2022 23:22

chaosapiant: Oct 10, 2012; White Line Fever

I�m playing the PC version with a controller. Bethesda games play fantastic with a controller. Hell, the Nu-Doom games feel great with a controller. I�m sure keyboard and mouse indeed works better for competitive shooters, but guess what kind of game Starfield isn�t?

# ? Dec 3, 2022 23:26