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Yeah the physics of spaceflight in the Expanse make For All Mankind looks like fantasy bullshit by comparison
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Dec 2, 2022 21:36
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Foundation has FTL its already thrown physics out the door with the premise
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Dec 2, 2022 21:42
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I think he’s saying that regardless of physics accuracy or whatever, the action scenes in Foundation are more interesting. Lol. Lmao.
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Dec 2, 2022 23:17
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They should have blocked those railgun hits on the Donnager with iPads
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Dec 2, 2022 23:30
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dpkg chopra posted:I think he’s saying that regardless of physics accuracy or whatever, the action scenes in Foundation are more interesting. Absolutely. I've seen plenty of CGI space battles, but never a collapsing space elevator. But that's only one factor. The whole setting and events that result from it is just far more interesting, and makes up for the not as interesting characters. Charles 1998 fucked around with this message at 23:59 on Dec 2, 2022 |
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Dec 2, 2022 23:56
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Charles 1998 posted:I'd rate this show about equivalent to the first season of expanse. Bro…
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Dec 3, 2022 00:07
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This show was terrible and I will not have it compared more favourably than The Expanse. On the scale of recent TV sci-fi it's slightly better than Another Life.
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Dec 3, 2022 00:19
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Rutibex posted:Foundation has FTL its already thrown physics out the door with the premise Hate to break it to you but...
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Dec 3, 2022 00:40
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the peak of this show was the space elevator collapse, it was all downhill after that
bawfuls fucked around with this message at 00:50 on Dec 3, 2022 |
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Dec 3, 2022 00:47
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Can’t believe I stuck through Flatulation - utterly dire waste of my time.
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Dec 3, 2022 01:03
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bawfuls posted:the peak of this show was the space elevator collapse, it was all downhill after that The Cleons were the only interesting thing about the show, and they're the only thing that's not at-least-name-lifted from the OG material  But the space elevator collapse was incredible, too bad it was in the middle of an otherwise terrible show.
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Dec 3, 2022 05:35
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Out of Foundation, I, Robot, and Bicentennial man I would put Foundation in the middle. Its better than I, Robot.
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Dec 3, 2022 05:42
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The Baley books are the best IMO, even if there's some inevitable 20th century sci-fi author sex weirdness involved.
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Dec 3, 2022 07:01
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Rutibex posted:Out of Foundation, I, Robot, and Bicentennial man I would put Foundation in the middle. Its better than I, Robot. I, robot was another clear case of having a movie script for an unrelated property that they wanted to slap Asimov's name on for branding. They can't keep getting away with this
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Dec 3, 2022 16:06
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I liked the world building of the series. Sure, we only got to a see a very limited number of worlds and people from a Universe numbering hundreds of millions of unique planets, but places like creepy sinking planet, Trantor or heck, even Terminus and the Desert jesus hiking planet were neat.
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Dec 3, 2022 18:00
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AppleTV has announced they have acquired the rights to Nureomancer, so they'll probably show it the respect they showed Foundation.
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Dec 3, 2022 23:15
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ikanreed posted:I, robot was another clear case of having a movie script for an unrelated property that they wanted to slap Asimov's name on for branding. I'm really curious if that was what actually happened with the foundation. Because you can tell the cleon parts are, for better or worse, the poo poo they actually care about. They are better thought out, better written and better acted. And given that their cross with the 'main' plotline beyond the first episode is barely more than tangential, it really does feel like they had a 'my three clones' story written up and just slapped the most half assed asmiov bits on to get it to screen.
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Dec 4, 2022 01:34
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twistedmentat posted:AppleTV has announced they have acquired the rights to Nureomancer, so they'll probably show it the respect they showed Foundation. Is it really disrespectful to adapt a work with an aggressively different approach? I've never bought the idea that the purpose of adaptation was to create a one-to-one copy of the original, or the nearest equivalent of. Seems redundant at best. That said, different production crews will have different approaches; I suspect that just because both these programs are Apple productions doesn't mean they won't necessarily take the same approaches. HBO, by way of contrast, has produced very slavish adaptations of books -- Angels In America only cuts out a handful of scenes, for instance -- while it's also produced some fairly radical departures e.g. Lovecraft Country. So I don't think your argument translates tbh.
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Dec 4, 2022 01:39
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For what it's worth, the only other adaptation I've seen on Apple is The Essex Serpent, which also departed pretty widely from the novel (though in a better way than Foundation). But I don't think it really matters because all three of these have different production houses, writers, showrunners, producers, etc.
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Dec 4, 2022 01:44
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I've thought a lot about this and the only positive thing I can say about the show was probably accidental. In the final episode when the Invictus jumps to Terminus and bonks a bunch of asteroids out of the way. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUMSoFt99kI&t=497s I always got the feeling from the book series that technology was just a settled concept. It was impossibly advanced. So much time had passed that they had even forgotten the anything about Earth and 50,000 years later, 12000 years into the galactic empire, our spaceships actually would just comically bonk rocks out of the way like that. They didn't need to worry about things the same way since Trantor was a giant machine and the Empire was 25,000,000 planets and 500 quadrillion people. They probably just didn't understand science and it was a complete accident though.
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Dec 4, 2022 01:47
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Open Source Idiom posted:Is it really disrespectful to adapt a work with an aggressively different approach? I've never bought the idea that the purpose of adaptation was to create a one-to-one copy of the original, or the nearest equivalent of. Seems redundant at best. When they completely miss the message and themes and general plot so they can have another mystery box with a super special chosen one in a series that has nothing like that, then yea, that's not respectful. Like if someone adapted Don Quixote and turned him into some high fantasy knight defeating actual giants and wizards and poo poo.
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Dec 4, 2022 04:12
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twistedmentat posted:AppleTV has announced they have acquired the rights to Nureomancer, so they'll probably show it the respect they showed Foundation. Great hopefully they get Snowcrash and The Diamond Age too
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Dec 4, 2022 04:27
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Wasn't someone already doing a snow crash thing?
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Dec 4, 2022 04:47
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twistedmentat posted:When they completely miss the message and themes and general plot so they can have another mystery box with a super special chosen one in a series that has nothing like that, then yea, that's not respectful. Like if someone adapted Don Quixote and turned him into some high fantasy knight defeating actual giants and wizards and poo poo. How is that disrespectful rather than just inaccurate?
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Dec 4, 2022 04:56
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this show deserves this argument
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Dec 4, 2022 05:04
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Open Source Idiom posted:How is that disrespectful rather than just inaccurate? I dunno, it seems pretty disrespectful to an IP if you're just tacking the name onto your own terrible story for publicity rather than try to represent anything that made the IP what it is.
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Dec 4, 2022 06:19
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Phenotype posted:I dunno, it seems pretty disrespectful to an IP if you're just tacking the name onto your own terrible story for publicity rather than try to represent anything that made the IP what it is.
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Dec 4, 2022 07:05
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twistedmentat posted:When they completely miss the message and themes and general plot so they can have another mystery box with a super special chosen one in a series that has nothing like that, then yea, that's not respectful. Like if someone adapted Don Quixote and turned him into some high fantasy knight defeating actual giants and wizards and poo poo.
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Dec 4, 2022 07:41
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Rutibex posted:Great hopefully they get Snowcrash and The Diamond Age too
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Dec 4, 2022 13:11
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Open Source Idiom posted:Is it really disrespectful to adapt a work with an aggressively different approach? I've never bought the idea that the purpose of adaptation was to create a one-to-one copy of the original, or the nearest equivalent of. Seems redundant at best. Like others have said, its not bad to change things, works moving into other mediums have to be adapted to best suit those mediums. Thats expected and when done well you get The Shining, and when your obsessed with being slavish you risk getting The Shining mini series. It still needs to retain the fundamental base of what the story is though, what the point of it was, or why bother beyond wanting to use a well known name? I mean if you did an adaptation of The Shining but removed all the supernatural elements and made it about a gang of jewel thieves hiding out in an abandoned Hotel who take a caretaker family hostage and the dad has to go all Die Hard on them... why did you bother using the name and connection to the book? The Foundation series isn't just "oh booo!!!! they condensed those characters into one, trimmed some sub plots, and reworked some backstories, unacceptable!" its fundamentally an unrecognizable story if you removed all the proper nouns used in it, with an exactly polar opposite meaning from the books. So why use it instead of coming up with original nouns and making it their own original IP? The only answer can be because they know people will go "oh i remember those books, I should tune in", and that cynical use to trick people, when they just wanted to tell their own original story (which they should have been fine with! An original show focused on the cleons would have been a better show!) is what i think is disrespectful.
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Dec 4, 2022 17:09
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I'm genuinely not trying to pick a fight here, but I still unfortunately don't get where other goons are coming from here. Like, I get the arguments about making changes to a text to adapt to a new medium, or how a text might be so altered by the adaptation choices that it just feels completely different to the original text, or just an incompetent translation, but still I don't see how it's disrespectful to do this tbh. Maybe I'm just stuck on the word, I dunno. Like, okay, when Disney adapted Hamlet into The Lion King but threw out half the subplots, changed the ending, etc. I'm guessing people wouldn't say that was "disrespectful" because they changed the name along with it? But then, what about the ways they changed The Little Mermaid, Hercules, Cinderella, Snow White, etc. Stephen King personally found the changes to Kubrik's adaptation of The Shining to be incredibly upsetting, but is the general consensus then that it's not, because the ultimate production is so strong? Am I barking up the wrong tree trying to find some sort of consistent rule to all of this, or does it just depend on how much an individual prefers the adaptation to the original work? (I guess, just for the record, while I had fun with this show, I frequently thought it was laughably bad. I guess I just like laughing.)
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Dec 4, 2022 21:05
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Re: Foundation https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/258262904091058176?s=20&t=NXwNJmy-ZTspO7-AXXpwqQ
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Dec 4, 2022 23:25
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Open Source Idiom posted:Am I barking up the wrong tree trying to find some sort of consistent rule to all of this, or does it just depend on how much an individual prefers the adaptation to the original work? There’s no consistent rule. Verhoeven completely upended the original message of Starship Troopers with the movie but created a fantastic product. I’m sure he still pissed off Heinlein’s fans in the process but a) gently caress military worshippers, and b) it was worth it. Can the creators of the Foundation say the same? dpkg chopra fucked around with this message at 23:44 on Dec 4, 2022 |
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Dec 4, 2022 23:42
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I don’t remember much about the show, which says something. But how did the show duck up the “themes”? Specifically in the actual adapted material. Not the made up clones or the whatever the lost spaceship thing was
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Dec 5, 2022 00:13
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dpkg chopra posted:There’s no consistent rule. Verhoeven completely upended the original message of Starship Troopers with the movie but created a fantastic product. I’m sure he still pissed off Heinlein’s fans in the process but a) gently caress military worshippers, and b) it was worth it. Starship Troopers is an interesting example, because you're right, Heinlein was a bit of a fascist and probably wouldn't have liked Verhoeven treating it as so ridiculous. I think the difference is that A.) they kept pretty much the same setup from the novel with the war with the bugs, citizens vs civilians and so on (although I was always disappointed they didn't keep the power armor), and more importantly B.) it wasn't just a cash-in, there was vision and passion behind a very high-quality production, even if it put forward a different message than the original.
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Dec 5, 2022 00:43
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Mr. Nemo posted:I don’t remember much about the show, which says something. “Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent” ― Salvor Hardin, action hero
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Dec 5, 2022 01:02
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Mr. Nemo posted:I don’t remember much about the show, which says something. In addition to the conversion to action series noted above, the books all but state overtly that they're about social forces that bypass individual decisionmakers. This season ends with "the empire is evil and you need to fight them with this superweapon" which isn't a direct refutation of that premise, but it's close.
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Dec 5, 2022 02:53
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Terminus in the books is a wee bit different than the hardscrabble frontier town in the show. Just slightly. And thematically, calling that “important” is an understatement.
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Dec 5, 2022 03:18
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That's one of the many things that still could have fit with foundation's themes if they loving used it. You know, a bunch of academics put into a difficult, challenging place shape a society built on (insert basically anything here), outside forces then conspire to test that society, and they either show a hidden strength of their new society or are forced to adapt. It reminds me of that early Red Letter Media bit about star wars episode 1. Other than their appearance or job, can you describe terminus society? Is there a single loving thing to say about it?
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Dec 5, 2022 04:04
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ikanreed posted:This season ends with "the empire is evil and you need to fight them with this superweapon" which isn't a direct refutation of that premise, but it's close. Especially because in addition to everything else there’s a big point in the books, and which Seldon even explicitly says so it’s not even subtext but text, that the Empire isn’t evil or a net negative on the galaxy. And the Empire maintains positive, if nominal, relations with Terminus for decades, until the first crisis.
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Dec 5, 2022 05:32
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