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Well now we have a more convenient place to shitpost about the ancient world
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Nov 24, 2022 07:24
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Fond memories of Fistful of Aliens. Those are M.U.S.C.L.E. figures. In the west, anyway. Kinkeshi in Japan.
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Nov 24, 2022 10:19
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MuffiTuffiWuffi posted:Huh, thanks for pointing that out.
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Nov 24, 2022 18:44
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Translatio_imperii huh, norway is the third troy
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Nov 26, 2022 20:57
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ChubbyChecker posted:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Translatio_imperii yeah per snorri, all the trojans went north and became the norse gods somehow not part of the god of war games
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Nov 26, 2022 21:27
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The Ynglings liked that because it allowed them to continue to claim descent from the gods without it being heathenry.
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Nov 26, 2022 23:55
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Yeah, well, didn't save them from Anakin's lightsaber
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Nov 27, 2022 00:06
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So after going to an auction this weekend where I bought a 15th century Halberd,. I've fallen down a hole of other antiques. How legimate is old, like pre-16th jewelry or is this going to a looting or fake stuff.
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Nov 27, 2022 02:58
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I have no idea about how to buy it responsibly, I would imagine there are sources for non-looted ones but it's not something I've ever looked into. Some of it is legit, jewelry made of silver/gold isn't going anywhere and is the sort of thing that gets buried when raiders come through town and never recovered, so it turns up. I'm sure lots of fakes of course.
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Nov 27, 2022 03:03
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sbaldrick posted:So after going to an auction this weekend where I bought a 15th century Halberd,. I've fallen down a hole of other antiques. How legimate is old, like pre-16th jewelry or is this going to a looting or fake stuff. Stick with sellers you trust, I guess. Newbies are the minnows the sharks feed on. Unless you have the eye or investigative skills to spot a forgery or a fake provenance, you're going to be easy to exploit - so rely on somebody else's skills that you trust.
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Nov 27, 2022 03:04
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Christies periodically has it, and it is very fun to look at their photos
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Nov 27, 2022 03:33
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Here in Iceland anything older than a hundred years is automatically protected and can't be owned privately and must be surrendered to the National Museum.
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Nov 27, 2022 04:49
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FreudianSlippers posted:Here in Iceland anything older than a hundred years is automatically protected and can't be owned privately and must be surrendered to the National Museum. Like, that you find? Or does anyone who forgets to demolish and rebuild their 99 year old house (or their 99 year old grandmother) have a funny surprise?
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Nov 27, 2022 05:28
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100+ year old houses are protected and can't be altered without permission. However there are several cases of contractors just demolishing protected houses and going "oopsy silly me I didn't realise what I was doing. Sorry" and facing no real consequences because of deeply ingrained and widespread political corruption
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Nov 27, 2022 05:56
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FreudianSlippers posted:Here in Iceland anything older than a hundred years is automatically protected and can't be owned privately and must be surrendered to the National Museum. Same in Norway. It doesn't even have to be that old, the wreck of the Blücher for example is officially protected as both a cultural heritage site and a burial site.
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Nov 27, 2022 12:23
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Deteriorata posted:Stick with sellers you trust, I guess. Newbies are the minnows the sharks feed on. Also important; the price and overpaying as a newbie
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Nov 27, 2022 12:27
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Alhazred posted:Same in Norway. It doesn't even have to be that old, the wreck of the Blücher *horses whinny* Alhazred posted:for example is officially protected as both a cultural heritage site and a burial site.
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Nov 27, 2022 17:03
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FreudianSlippers posted:100+ year old houses are protected and can't be altered without permission. "Deeply ingrained and widespread political corruption" is not something I would've ever associated with Iceland. I'd love to hear more about it, were this an appropriate place to discuss.
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Nov 28, 2022 16:40
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Totally un Rome related post:Judgy Fucker posted:"Deeply ingrained and widespread political corruption" is not something I would've ever associated with Iceland. I'd love to hear more about it, were this an appropriate place to discuss. I was being slightly dramatic but it's basically that as a side-effect having such a small population a small city in most countries nepotism is basically the norm rather then the exception and things that people need to resign for in most other countries are usually swept under the rug. Almost everyone with any degree of power in both the private and public sectors are related* and look after each other. This famously made Iceland collapse slightly more than most places outside of maybe Greece during 2008 because when the banks were privatized around the turn of the milleninum they were specifically sold to people with direct ties to the government who then proceeded to rob the banks from the inside by giving themselves or their other businesses huge loans with no intention of ever paying them off. This might be repeating itself. Recently shares in a government owned bank were sold at sizable discount and only to a select group of well connected investors, including the father of the current Finance Minister (who has himself been involved in I think four of five separate corruption scandals without any of them affecting his political career for longer then a few weeks.) as well as several people involved in the previous privatization scandal. It also came to light that many investors had given committee in charge of selecting investors various gifts. Gifts are not bribes because they were in the form of expensive wines, invitations to fancy dinners, or even huge boxes fireworks, and not actually cash. Of course most of the investors sold their shares for a profit shortly after when the discount was no longer in effect. Similarly in the 80s and 90s when huge changes were made to fishing quotas the new system was specifically tailored to the interests of the largest fishing companies when the minister in charge of implementing this new system was not only part of a family that owned one of these fishing corporations but had shares in the business himself. Essentially handing his family, and himself, millions. Samherji, the largest fishery in Iceland, was recently caught bribing officials in Namibia for the privilege of fishing in their waters (with both the bribes and any money made from fish caught in Nambian waters being funneled through offshore accounts to ensure they didn't have to pay any taxes of the money they made from exploiting Namibia). In Namibia this has been treated very seriously and the bribed officials were arrested and are being charged. In Iceland the only people even interrogated where the journalists who broke the story. The Minister of Fisheries at the time this broke was a close personal friend of the founder and CEO of Samherji and when the news broke called him to console him for having been caught. There is also the fact that for decades you couldn't get any sort of promotion within the police unless you were card carrying member of the Independence Party, the right-wing ruling party in 22 of the 31 governments Iceland has had since 1944 usually with around 30% of the vote. Essentially making the police an extension of one specific political party which itself exists largely to further the interests of one specific family (the Engey clan which has spawned two Prime Ministers, several other ministers, and too many business moguls to count). I'm told it's not as bad today and maybe only 95% of cops are party related. Additionally almost every judge and prosecutor now working was appointed by the party so they basically control the entire justice system. Relatedly two alt-right young men were recently arrested suspected of planning a mass shooting. Some of the guns they were allegedly going to use in their rampage were sold to them by the father of the State Police Chief, who is an outspoken xenophobe and gunsmith who sells legally gray weapons to "collectors". When the police asked him about some illegally modified semi-automatic guns he sold to the suspects he basically just told them "Don't you know who my daughter is?" and got off scot-free. Though I supposed them actually asking him is a big step forward. Those are the larger types of corruption. The more everyday corruption is that if you have the right familial, political, or business ties you can get away with bending the laws as much as you want as long as you don't break them too much. tl:dr Decades of nepotism as a guiding ideology in almost all sectors of society have lead to frequent corruption scandals none of which really have any long term consequences as the system is shaped around these things not being prosecuted or even being legalized leading to the oft used phrase of something someone in power did being "Löglegt en siðlaust" or "Legal but immoral". *All Icelanders are of course related but some are more related than others. The average person is 8-9th cousins with most other people with the last common ancestor usually being some random 18th century peasant. FreudianSlippers fucked around with this message at 01:57 on Nov 29, 2022 |
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Nov 28, 2022 21:35
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We have some very nice public swimming pools though.
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Nov 28, 2022 21:40
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This is actually very relevant to the thread. Government by obligatory nepotism and favors-for-favors because everyone knows each other/is their nth cousin is exactly how the Roman republic workedFreudianSlippers posted:We have some very nice public swimming pools though. Also thread relevant!
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Nov 28, 2022 21:46
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FreudianSlippers posted:Totally un Rome related post: I very much appreciate this thorough write-up, thank you 
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Nov 28, 2022 21:49
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reykjavik is the fourth rome, change my mind
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Nov 29, 2022 01:02
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https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.abq3766 New paper on the tin from the Uluburun shipwreck (an enormous late bronze age shipwreck from near the Aegean carrying about one metric ton of tin, among many other things) finds that one third of it came from Uzbekistan. Long distance trade in tin was already known to be a thing, but its still pretty wild to see exactly how much tin was moving long distances. Edit: There's a cool map in the article. The sites with the hammers are tin sources, it discusses the ones in Europe but dismisses them as possibilities, which is why those ones are labelled, but the site they identified from Uzbekistan as one of the tin sources is Musiston I think. 
CrypticFox fucked around with this message at 23:00 on Dec 3, 2022 |
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Dec 3, 2022 22:51
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CrypticFox posted:https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.abq3766 New paper on the tin from the Uluburun shipwreck (an enormous late bronze age shipwreck from near the Aegean carrying about one metric ton of tin, among many other things) finds that one third of it came from Uzbekistan. Long distance trade in tin was already known to be a thing, but its still pretty wild to see exactly how much tin was moving long distances.
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Dec 3, 2022 23:12
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:This is awesome, thank you for sharing. Was tin only used for bronzeworking or did it have other uses? I think it was mostly just for bronzeworking, especially the tin in that shipwreck, since they found c. 10 tons of copper and c. 1 ton of tin in the shipwreck, which is the correct 10 to 1 ratio needed for making bronze.
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Dec 3, 2022 23:16
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:This is awesome, thank you for sharing. Was tin only used for bronzeworking or did it have other uses? It's also used for pewter, mostly used for tableware. It was known in the bronze age, but I don't know how extensively it was used.
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Dec 3, 2022 23:17
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CrypticFox posted:https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.abq3766 New paper on the tin from the Uluburun shipwreck (an enormous late bronze age shipwreck from near the Aegean carrying about one metric ton of tin, among many other things) finds that one third of it came from Uzbekistan. Long distance trade in tin was already known to be a thing, but its still pretty wild to see exactly how much tin was moving long distances. oh this is super loving cool hell yeah
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Dec 4, 2022 00:32
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Tunicate posted:yeah per snorri, all the trojans went north and became the norse gods Touching on this, and I guess relevant to ancient history by historiography - how did medieval and renaissance scholars think of the Trojan war, especially in terms of factuality? In contrast to pagan Greeks and Romans, who I assume would have seen it and it's divine involvement as more of less factual, right? Snorri was a 15th Century Christian so presumably he didn't believe it was true that Achilles and Agamemnon, etc were the literal descendant of gods. So would Christian and Muslim scholars of his time have seen it as basically fictional or mythology, a heavily narrative version of a real war, or literally accurate to the Illiad except for the divine bits? Or would they have said "oh yeah Achilles was invincible but that was the work of Satan actually. Mmm yeah Pagans are just like that. Loved Satan they did. Good writers though." Alternatively they might have had a very different lens looking at historiography than we do but I'm curious how someone like Snorri would have squared the Ynglings being Trojans as important with the Trojans being, at best, some very well documented famous guys to him.
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Dec 4, 2022 02:53
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Elements of the Greek myth-history were accepted by late-antique Christianity, but with an interestingly skeptic eye. Like Jerome’s Chronicon contains entries for the war of the centaurs and lapiths, or Hercules slaying the hydra, but also contains notes from Hellenistic scholars who took issue with the literality of the myth, “Palaephatus says the centaurs were just knights of Thessaly”, “Plato says the hydra was a trick”. But the basic idea that there was a king Agamemnon who led the Greeks to conquer Troy doesn’t seem to have occurred to him to dispute.
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Dec 4, 2022 03:04
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FreudianSlippers posted:I was being slightly dramatic Given the rest of your post I don't think you were quote:*All Icelanders are of course related but some are more related than others. This explains a lot about the one Icelandic person I've gotten to know. I'm assuming she was one of the "more related" ones.
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Dec 4, 2022 04:46
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The English royals claimed to be descended from Aeneas for centuries
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Dec 4, 2022 05:20
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MinistryofLard posted:Touching on this, and I guess relevant to ancient history by historiography - how did medieval and renaissance scholars think of the Trojan war, especially in terms of factuality? In contrast to pagan Greeks and Romans, who I assume would have seen it and it's divine involvement as more of less factual, right? IIRC snorri's was basically that these trojan guys were big normal human badasses so when they went north people were all 'well of course these guys are so badass they have to be gods'
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Dec 4, 2022 05:32
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most royals did this kind of poo poo
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Dec 4, 2022 06:27
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CrypticFox posted:https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.abq3766 New paper on the tin from the Uluburun shipwreck (an enormous late bronze age shipwreck from near the Aegean carrying about one metric ton of tin, among many other things) finds that one third of it came from Uzbekistan. Long distance trade in tin was already known to be a thing, but its still pretty wild to see exactly how much tin was moving long distances. nice! that's such a cool wreck
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Dec 4, 2022 06:28
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Thank you, bronze merchant 3000 years ago, for having a really lovely day.
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Dec 4, 2022 06:43
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i too hope to die in a way that's really interesting for archaeologists
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Dec 4, 2022 06:47
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i absolutely wish that i could do something as important as those guys e: or at least leave a corpse like this : 
ChubbyChecker fucked around with this message at 06:54 on Dec 4, 2022 |
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Dec 4, 2022 06:50
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ChubbyChecker posted:most royals did this kind of poo poo Every few years, it's presented as some big gotcha that the British royal family could claim descent from the prophet Muhammad through Spanish nobility. What I'm saying is Charles III should use the title of Sayid rather than Fidei Defensor. They should have relinquished that title after the reformation anyway
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Dec 4, 2022 08:42
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ChubbyChecker posted:most royals did this kind of poo poo Yeah the Aeneas thing is comparatively grounded and realistic if anything. The Merovingians were descended from a sea monster
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Dec 4, 2022 13:24
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